Turkish Posted 7 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Let me correct that for you: Who are male and female. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Luckily, this is all just hypothetical and we live in a world where gays can adopt and the ignorant just have to get angry about it on internet forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Luckily, this is all just hypothetical and we live in a world where gays can adopt and the ignorant just have to get angry about it on internet forums. what you on about, this is the real world and you are our own frankie boyle.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 she has made it stable, to the detriment of her own happiness, putting her kid first. Sounds like a house of cards to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Sounds like a house of cards to me. i agree, her decison though. Staying together for the sake of the child. Up to them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 she has made it stable, to the detriment of her own happiness, putting her kid first. but the kids will pick up on bad vibes, I admire and respect people that at least try this first, what if he reoffends (for want of a better term)? It is hard always knowing what to do for the best. On the bullying issue, Have noticed that the younger generation are alot more open-minded about things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 I've got nothing against gays but this doesn't seem right, if you choose to go down the sausage sword fight route you should not expect to play happy families with kids etc. I thought these adoption rules were really strict, how can they ignore the possible negative effects of being brought up in such an odd environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Sounds like a house of cards to me. and you are the ace of clubs my pedigree chum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 You have no control over your biological childrens appearance or future health. You do have control on if you chose to adopt and it is very likely that a child of a same sex relationship child will be a victim of bullying. So what you're actually saying is that any person who has done anything that might later cause their children to be socially embarrassed should be prevented from adopting? Does this include all traffic wardens, anyone who has ever driven a skoda, anyone who supports the wrong football team, anyone who admits to voting tory, or labour, or lib dem, or any other party, or abstaining? Again, where is the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Who are possibly male and female, or any combination of the two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 I guess this thread proves that people will always agree / disagree on many different topics, especially when it is something "un-natural" or that goes against the grain. It's not that long ago that I faced similar when my children came to live alone with me, I faced predjuces from areas such as social services and the courts as a man raising kids alone was not the done thing, had to prove that i was capable, this led to me calling everyone in a meeting sexist as woman were not treated how i was. As a result of my case (and a few others) the law changed in 2001 which basically gave dads just as much rights as mothers, and if the mother was no longer around or incapable of raising the child then the father didnt have to go through barriers that i did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 sorry for bleating on about this, I should write a book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 and you are the ace of clubs my pedigree chum I am the Queen of Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February, 2011 So what you're actually saying is that any person who has done anything that might later cause their children to be socially embarrassed should be prevented from adopting? Does this include all traffic wardens, anyone who has ever driven a skoda, anyone who supports the wrong football team, anyone who admits to voting tory, or labour, or lib dem, or any other party, or abstaining? Again, where is the line? Dont be ridiculous. If i had a child, brought them up as a Saints fan would i then send them to Mayfield School in Portmouth? Of course i wouldn't, because they would undoubtedly be bullied and i'd deliberately be putting them at risk. Like it or not, children of same sex couples are at a high risk of bullying, same sex parents that adopt know full well that this is the case. I honestly think in a lot of these cases its more of a statement about themselves. I dont understand how you could not find women attractive yet still want children. Surely the basic concept of sex is procreation is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Dont be ridiculous. If i had a child, brought them up as a Saints fan would i then send them to Mayfield School in Portmouth? Of course i wouldn't, because they would undoubtedly be bullied and i'd deliberately be putting them at risk. Like it or not, children of same sex couples are at a high risk of bullying, same sex parents that adopt know full well that this is the case. I honestly think in a lot of these cases its more of a statement about themselves. I dont understand how you could not find women attractive yet still want children. Surely the basic concept of sex is procreation is it not? Turn that on its head (so to speak). I can think of many men and women who don't want / can't have children. What are you saying here - they shouldn't have sex since they don't intend to procreate? Tch! Increasingly science is suggesting that homosexuality is influenced by a number of factors including differences in the hypothalamus and having older brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Turkish / Hypo...just out of interest, do you have children? Not sure why that is relevant. Am certain I have more experience of how upbringing affects children though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Not sure why that is relevant. Am certain I have more experience of how upbringing affects children though. because until you have children you wont truely understand. More experience than who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 I've got nothing against gays but this doesn't seem right, if you choose to go down the sausage sword fight route you should not expect to play happy families with kids etc. I thought these adoption rules were really strict, how can they ignore the possible negative effects of being brought up in such an odd environment. They don't. It's why in general straight couples are given priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 As long as they don't touch him inappropriately then I think it's fine. They'd be more likely to wouldn't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 because until you have children you wont truely understand. More experience than who? You. And wouldn't understand what? The potential negative effects that a same sex couple could have on a child's upbringing that a heterosexual couple would not have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 You. And wouldn't understand what? The potential negative effects that a same sex couple could have on a child's upbringing that a heterosexual couple would not have? sooo, you dont have children and yet consider yourself more qualified? How does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 sorry for bleating on about this, I should write a book! I'm not sure what you are getting at. A single parent and a same sex parent is something completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 I'm not sure what you are getting at. A single parent and a same sex parent is something completely different. it was in response to a comment about how kids should have both parents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 (edited) Dont be ridiculous. If i had a child, brought them up as a Saints fan would i then send them to Mayfield School in Portmouth? Of course i wouldn't, because they would undoubtedly be bullied and i'd deliberately be putting them at risk. Right, so you know before you decide to adopt that your child won't at any stage become bullied for your love of Saints. Sure, you can mitigate against it happening, but you can't prevent it from happening. Like it or not, children of same sex couples are at a high risk of bullying, same sex parents that adopt know full well that this is the case. Yes, unfortunately you are right. However, as I have pointed out there are numerous other reasons why a child might be bullied, and it is impossible to remove the risk altogether. Should fat people be allowed to adopt? What about ugly people? Honestly, your argument is entirely flawed. I honestly think in a lot of these cases its more of a statement about themselves. In some cases I'm sure you are right. In the vast majority you are wrong. I dont understand how you could not find women attractive yet still want children. Well that says a lot about you, but judging by the number of homosexual partners hoping to adopt it would appear that many people do indeed want children without finding women attractive. I guess the two things can't be linked. Surely the basic concept of sex is procreation is it not? Biologically that is indeed the function behind sex. However, if you have ever had a w@nk I'm sure you will understand that procreation isn't the only reason for sex. Edited 7 February, 2011 by Joensuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 And apart from anything else the bullying and ridcule at school a child of a gay couple will be subject too should be enough to put most gay couples adopting should be enough to put them off, if they care about the child that is and are not trying to make a statement about themselves. Their child will be fortunately be rich enough to be bought up in an environment that bullying probably will not occur, unfortunately the same could not be said for a child in similar circumstances that will be attending your local comprehensive school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Turn that on its head (so to speak). I can think of many men and women who don't want / can't have children. What are you saying here - they shouldn't have sex since they don't intend to procreate? Tch! Increasingly science is suggesting that homosexuality is influenced by a number of factors including differences in the hypothalamus and having older brothers. It comes down to wanting to have your cake and eating it. When you become (or are born gay, but thats another arguement) you forego the opportunity of having bioligical children. That is the choice you have made. And regardless of what anyone says on here with their equal rights agendas, it is well know that kids are at the best when they have both (same sex) parents and are in a stable family relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 They'd be more likely to wouldn't they. No more than a heterosexual father would be likely to touch his daughter inappropriately. Although I think I'm right in saying that it seems that a significant number of cases of child abuse are carried out by members of the immediate family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 it was in response to a comment about how kids should have both parents If you look I said kids can cope fine without one parent but ideally they want two. Children will miss out on small things, if you work in a nursery for any length of time then you can always spot the three year olds who come from a single parent home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 sooo, you dont have children and yet consider yourself more qualified? How does that work? More qualified at what??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Their child will be fortunately be rich enough to be bought up in an environment that bullying probably will not occur, unfortunately the same could not be said for a child in similar circumstances that will be attending your local comprehensive school. Bullying doesn't just happen in the school playground i am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 If you look I said kids can cope fine without one parent but ideally they want two. Children will miss out on small things, if you work in a nursery for any length of time then you can always spot the three year olds who come from a single parent home. dont actually think it was your post I was responding to. So what have my kids missed out on then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 It comes down to wanting to have your cake and eating it. When you become (or are born gay, but thats another arguement) you forego the opportunity of having bioligical children. That is the choice you have made. And regardless of what anyone says on here with their equal rights agendas, it is well know that kids are at the best when they have both (same sex) parents and are in a stable family relationship. Not if being gay is a condition rather than a choice, it isn't. You might just as well say that you can't adopt if you are infertile. That is a condition too, not a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 It comes down to wanting to have your cake and eating it. When you become (or are born gay, but thats another arguement) you forego the opportunity of having bioligical children. That is the choice you have made. And regardless of what anyone says on here with their equal rights agendas, it is well know that kids are at the best when they have both (same sex) parents and are in a stable family relationship. Have to agree here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 dont actually think it was your post I was responding to. So what have my kids missed out on then? An ever present mother and everything that goes with that. I'm sure you're a great dad but I would be saying the same even if I were in the same situation as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 More qualified at what??? ...more experienced then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Hypocondriac and Turkish have studied child-raising in great depth and know what they say to be true. We should close this thread now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 I guess this thread proves that people will always agree / disagree on many different topics, especially when it is something "un-natural" or that goes against the grain. It's not that long ago that I faced similar when my children came to live alone with me, I faced predjuces from areas such as social services and the courts as a man raising kids alone was not the done thing, had to prove that i was capable, this led to me calling everyone in a meeting sexist as woman were not treated how i was. As a result of my case (and a few others) the law changed in 2001 which basically gave dads just as much rights as mothers, and if the mother was no longer around or incapable of raising the child then the father didnt have to go through barriers that i did. I find that strange, because when I had divorced parents in 1972, I stayed with my father and we had none of these issues, perhaps things have got less tolerant rather than more tolerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 An ever present mother and everything that goes with that. I'm sure you're a great dad but I would be saying the same even if I were in the same situation as you. Quite an insult to Mike who, from the sounds of it, has done a brilliant job in difficult circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 An ever present mother and everything that goes with that. what goes with that? As I said, my kids are fine, heathy, intelligent, polite etc etc and they have had no mum around. Look, yes in an ideal world I would lve to have had the 2.4 children thing but for whatever reason that didnt happen and I had to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 I find that strange, because when I had divorced parents in 1972, I stayed with my father and we had none of these issues, perhaps things have got less tolerant rather than more tolerant. Think its more a case because we werent married Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Quite an insult to Mike who, from the sounds of it, has done a brilliant job in difficult circumstances. FFS how is that in any way insulting. You really irritate me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Bullying doesn't just happen in the school playground i am afraid. That that is likely to be the place that they first encounter bigotry and bullying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 ...more experienced then How on earth do you know? For all you know I could be a child psychologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 I preferred the days when you humans first arrived on the animal kingdom scene. You didn't see yourselves as the superior species in them days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 FFS how is that in any way insulting. You really irritate me. I guess I could have taken it that way, but i have thicker skin than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 Think its more a case because we werent married If the children had your surname and your name on their birth certificate, I thought that the if your partner had a different surname you actually had more bright than she did nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 It comes down to wanting to have your cake and eating it. When you become (or are born gay, but thats another arguement) you forego the opportunity of having bioligical children. That is the choice you have made. Does this hold true for all hopeful adoptees who are unable to have biological children, or just the homosexuals? And regardless of what anyone says on here with their equal rights agendas, it is well know that kids are at the best when they have both (same sex) parents and are in a stable family relationship. Yes, agreed (except for the bit in the brackets, which, currently doesn't hold true) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 what goes with that? As I said, my kids are fine, heathy, intelligent, polite etc etc and they have had no mum around. Look, yes in an ideal world I would lve to have had the 2.4 children thing but for whatever reason that didnt happen and I had to adapt. Do you honestly not think that a child does not miss out on anything by not having an ever present mother (or motherly figure?) Despite extensive studies suggesting otherwise? (and no I am not going to hunt on the internet to find relevant literature, it is all available should you wish.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 How on earth do you know? For all you know I could be a child psychologist. again, until you have kids and really know how things work. It's one thing working with kids but your job you leave at work, its no subsitute for the real, 24/7 thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 7 February, 2011 Share Posted 7 February, 2011 If the children had your surname and your name on their birth certificate, I thought that the if your partner had a different surname you actually had more bright than she did nowadays This post made my head hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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