Whitey Grandad Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 Davis isn't going anywhere and we would be better off getting behind him for the rest of the campaign, and if necessary change keeper at the end of the season. And spend next season in League 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever a red and white Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 And spend next season in League 1? Bart's hardly proven is he? People have short memories, he has been erratic in the past, especially our first season in the championship when he had a run of games, thats how he got injured at newcastle in the cup. No doubt he has been competent when in goal but it just seems a big risk to go and change things at the back, when he does not have the experience for promotion, Davis does. Maybe it is time for a change, just can't help but feel this criticism is slightly over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 Bart's hardly proven is he? People have short memories, he has been erratic in the past, especially our first season in the championship when he had a run of games, thats how he got injured at newcastle in the cup. No doubt he has been competent when in goal but it just seems a big risk to go and change things at the back, when he does not have the experience for promotion, Davis does. Maybe it is time for a change, just can't help but feel this criticism is slightly over the top. There's still time for a loan. I just feel that the errors have been getting more frequent lately and it seems to fill the whole defence with the jitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Stick by your keeper. Barts distribution is worst than mine, and that is saying something. He WON'T be dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 As well as dropping him, he should be burnt at the stake. Agreed. Along with his wife and children. Anyone with the surname Davis should be sent to prison for life. Anyone with the surname Davies should have both their legs cut off as punishment for having a surname like his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Both goals, very, very poor. For the first goal Seaborne was weak - very weak. Admittedly Davies should have protected his near post better but the shot should never have been got away in the first place. I'm still struggling to see how Davies could be blamed for the second. The real blame was allowing the cross in the first place. I don't think Bart would have made any difference. I'm not convinced that he would have made some of the other stops that Davis made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 (edited) ignore. I forgot the quote and cannot get back to include it. My comment makes no sense without it. Essentially agreeing with Benji. Edited 6 February, 2011 by St_Tel49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Really? Why can't he come five yards off his line and catch the ball? Keepers all over the world can use the WHOLE box. All of it. Honest. And barge a whole mass of players out of the way? One maybe - several, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 When they attacked us they tore through the midfield and defense with ease! I think Seabourne holds most of the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubsaint Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 i have said all along that davis doesnt command his back line and that leads to all our defensive problems,we need a strong charactor between the sticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEADAMS Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEADAMS Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Sorry but you are talking bollo cks. If we took away all the times he has saved us, we wouldn't even be in the mix. Why do so many of our 'fans' seem hell bent on finding negatives, Saints don't need that type of 'support' . Totally agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingdon Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 There are worrying signs with Kelvin The first thing a goalkeeper loses is the juice in his legs He seems slow off the mark, and appears to be quite flat footed at times too Perhaps this is Bart's time to step up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammysaint Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 1st goal was his fault as well as seabournes but 2nd was harding looked like he ducked and bottled the header. Keep Davis but give Bart a few games as well as he should be are number 1 next season and Davis number 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Got to lave all the armchair goalies watching from the comfort of their living rooms with no idea of the conditions. Was he at fault for the first? Probably should have one better, but was put in that position by some shocking defending. As for the second well, no keeper in the league would have done anything different in that wind. Also made a couple of excellent, crucial saves, but lets not let that get in the way of a good old slagging eh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewell Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 I am in no way advocating dropping Davis but I was impressed with the way Bart commanded his area against United. I feel we have two good keepers and I am happy for either to be between the sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 1st goal was his fault as well as Seaborne's but 2nd was Harding looked like he ducked and bottled the header. That's exactly how I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benj Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 First goal he was partly to blame for, although he was clearly set for the shot from Mackail-Smith and caught out by the fact he he shinned a bobbler into the opposite corner to the one he was aiming at. The second one was in no way his fault, if I was the goalkeeping coach and one of my keepers tried to come and collect a cross like that, through that many people, in such a strong wind, I would have been going absolutely ballistic at him. Dan Harding totally bottled what should have been a fairly comfortable header to clear. Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he made two great saves from 1 on 1's and got on the end of a fair few crosses, which in those conditions was no mean feat. Dropping one of, if not the, best keepers in League 1 would be an absolute joke of a decision, luckily Nigel Adkins has 10 times more footballing sense than a lot of people on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 It's true that the 1st goal can be blamed at Davis - it was a pretty soft goal for an ex-Prem keeper to concede. The 2nd was all Hardings fault - he lost his man simple. Bart is OK, however is distribution is worse than Davis and he would make as many mistakes I feel. Davis has played some excellent football in the past, but I would have swapped their keeper for ours any day of the week though - he kept them in the game and showed how to do it time after time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 First goal he was partly to blame for, although he was clearly set for the shot from Mackail-Smith and caught out by the fact he he shinned a bobbler into the opposite corner to the one he was aiming at. The second one was in no way his fault, if I was the goalkeeping coach and one of my keepers tried to come and collect a cross like that, through that many people, in such a strong wind, I would have been going absolutely ballistic at him. Dan Harding totally bottled what should have been a fairly comfortable header to clear. Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he made two great saves from 1 on 1's and got on the end of a fair few crosses, which in those conditions was no mean feat. Dropping one of, if not the, best keepers in League 1 would be an absolute joke of a decision, luckily Nigel Adkins has 10 times more footballing sense than a lot of people on here. you need to post more often. A very good assessment IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattio Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 I still think we should have got Smithies in the transfer window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 That's exactly how I saw it. I saw it that Harding was pushed before the ball arrived. But I might be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 I still think we should have got Smithies in the transfer window! Funnily enough there was a thread very similar to this on Huddersfields forum after we beat them. ''Time for Smithies to be dropped?'' I think. Shows how fickle football is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 I saw it that Harding was pushed before the ball arrived. But I might be mistaken. Harding could and should have got to the header first. Compare his feeble effort with Butterfield's far post clearance with two players all over him. Harding was too busy complaining about the lack of marking and forgot that clearing the ball was his first priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 I think KD knows he could have done better with the first. He knows the same about goals at Tranmere & was it Brentford. I would not drop him. I would however make it clear to him that his standards have dropped & he needs to up them. It happens to every player. They have an off period. Work harder........ FWIW - If (when) we get promoted I think we will look for another keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 I don't really see how it's scapegoating to say that maybe it's worth giving Bart a chance, Kelv' has been brilliant in some games and suspect in others. If he was in any other position it would be completely acceptable to try out another player if there was a dip in form, especially if the other option had put in a good performance in a cup game, but for some reason with keepers it's viewed very differently. As i said in my previous post i don't necessarily think Kelv' is worth singling out but it does seem to me that by giving Bart a few games it'll [hopefully] add some competition to the mix and keep both players sharp and fighting for their places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Got to lave all the armchair goalies watching from the comfort of their living rooms with no idea of the conditions. Was he at fault for the first? Probably should have one better, but was put in that position by some shocking defending. As for the second well, no keeper in the league would have done anything different in that wind. Also made a couple of excellent, crucial saves, but lets not let that get in the way of a good old slagging eh.... Exactly. Saying "he should've come for the second" is the mark of an uber dinlo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 For the record, I think we should drop Harding, Seaborne and Davis. We should play Dickson, Jaidi and Bart. When Dickson, Jaidi and Bart have a bad game (or a game which is actually fine but is perceived as bad by numpties) we should drop them and play our third choice in each position (or get a loan in). When that loan/third choice has a bad game we can get another loan or play our fourth choice. If we repeat this cycle ad nauseum we will no doubt be in the Prem in two years. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 FWIW I sat in the Upper Stand(????) overlooking the goal and Davies could, and should, have stopped the first goal. The second was equally the responsibility of KD and DH but, CMS is a nasty niggling little git who forces his way through and past many defenders, it's the way he plays (and I'd have him as a Saint tomorrow if I could) KD's distribution was bordering on the atrocious yesterday and his 'long balls' either went into touch or were Posh's goal kicks. He needs to pick up his game again or he'll spend quite a long time warming the bench! PS A big 'up'for the Saints who were there yesterday.We outsang the Posh thgroughout the game. I'll get me coat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 First goal he was partly to blame for, although he was clearly set for the shot from Mackail-Smith and caught out by the fact he he shinned a bobbler into the opposite corner to the one he was aiming at. The second one was in no way his fault, if I was the goalkeeping coach and one of my keepers tried to come and collect a cross like that, through that many people, in such a strong wind, I would have been going absolutely ballistic at him. Dan Harding totally bottled what should have been a fairly comfortable header to clear. Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he made two great saves from 1 on 1's and got on the end of a fair few crosses, which in those conditions was no mean feat. Dropping one of, if not the, best keepers in League 1 would be an absolute joke of a decision, luckily Nigel Adkins has 10 times more footballing sense than a lot of people on here. Totally agree mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chivvy1664 Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 very poor for first goal...couldnt blame him for any of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jampot Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Davis is our no 1. Peter Cech has made mistakes this season and he's playing today..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 First goal he was partly to blame for, although he was clearly set for the shot from Mackail-Smith and caught out by the fact he he shinned a bobbler into the opposite corner to the one he was aiming at. The second one was in no way his fault, if I was the goalkeeping coach and one of my keepers tried to come and collect a cross like that, through that many people, in such a strong wind, I would have been going absolutely ballistic at him. Dan Harding totally bottled what should have been a fairly comfortable header to clear. Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he made two great saves from 1 on 1's and got on the end of a fair few crosses, which in those conditions was no mean feat. Dropping one of, if not the, best keepers in League 1 would be an absolute joke of a decision, luckily Nigel Adkins has 10 times more footballing sense than a lot of people on here. Well said mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 The thing with Davis is that he doesn't command his box by coming for crosses when he should - he never has. If he were to do so, this would take an enormous amount of pressure off the whole team. It stops the other side's momentum, turning our desperate defending at times into our attack. A commanding goalie, when taking crosses will take the sting out of the attacking opposition. Having, and knowing you have a goalie who comes when he should to catch crosses means the defense has more confidence knowing this rather than at times resorting to desperate clearances - a good commanding goalie makes the defenders in front of him better. There comes a time in every players career when they cannot keep up the same standard of play, for whatever reason. Yesterday he also failed again at his near post to a shot which wasn't actually struck that well. IMHO, he should've saved it. He didn't and in that one error turned the whole game. In other recent matches he has also made costly mistakes. Posh gained momentum and then scored another, a high cross into the 6 yard box. Did the defenders expect Davis to come? I did. Okay the defense didn't deal with it either but that's the point I'm making - if Davis gets off his line to come for crosses then that goal would have been prevented. Second half we could have done with taking the sting out of Posh attacks. Not having a keeper to come for crosses meant we couldn't do this. I would drop him - doesn't mean that's it, game over, just means he's dropped and has to up his game in training to force his selection to the first team - just like all the other players in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Saint Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 the thing with davis is that he doesn't command his box by coming for crosses when he should - he never has. If he were to do so, this would take an enormous amount of pressure off the whole team. It stops the other side's momentum, turning our desperate defending at times into our attack. A commanding goalie, when taking crosses will take the sting out of the attacking opposition. Having, and knowing you have a goalie who comes when he should to catch crosses means the defense has more confidence knowing this rather than at times resorting to desperate clearances - a good commanding goalie makes the defenders in front of him better. this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 i have said all along that davis doesnt command his back line and that leads to all our defensive problems,we need a strong charactor between the sticks This is the problem that spreads to all areas of the defence. Under Burley they tried forcing Kelvin to come and claim balls in his 6 yard box, but that proved expensive so he stayed rooted to his line, occasionally straying out. This puts a lot of pressure on the defence because it is very difficult to work in unison with the goalie to come up with the best solution. This extends to through balls where sometimes Kelvin will clear decisively, other times not bother and it has cost us. Against Posh was poor I felt, but not the biggest problem I feel we have with Kelvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonball Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 He loses us more points then he saves us in my opinion. Niemi is the only real class keeper we've had this decade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 (edited) Bialkowski hasn't let the side down in the last two seasons when he has been called on plus an outstanding loan period at Barnsley. Davis has been at fault with four goals in the last three matches how many more before we make a change. Seaborne has been slaughtered today on here but his inability to catch a very quick and combative striker is insignificant compared with the incompetence displayed by Davis recently. Edited 6 February, 2011 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Davis' inability to command the oposing team's half is doing my head in. Nevermind whether Seaborne cocked-up causing a one-on-one from about ten yards and gave away a silly penalty, Davis should've been in the oppo's half closing down the forward ball in the first place. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Bialkowski hasn't let the side down in the last two seasons when he has been called on plus an outstanding loan period at Barnsley. Wrong. Davis has been at fault with four goals in the last three matches how many more before we make a change. Wrong. Seaborne has been slaughtered today on here but his inability to catch a very quick and combative striker is insignificant compared with the incompetence displayed by Davis recently. And wrong. Good effort though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Davis' inability to command the oposing team's half is doing my head in. Nevermind whether Seaborne cocked-up causing a one-on-one from about ten yards and gave away a silly penalty, Davis should've been in the oppo's half closing down the forward ball in the first place. Unbelievable. What Davis should have been doing and fails to do is command his box from crosses. I think he is a fantastic shot-stopper, but his inability to come for crosses is why he is in League and not the Prem. It is a fatal flaw in his game and at the age he is untreatable. It makes us defend too deep and any contact in the six yard box is always liable to be a goal. It should not be down to Harding or Seaborne to clear it - it was a keeper's ball and we have seen it many many times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammysaint Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Wrong. Wrong. And wrong. Good effort though. Agree with point 3 except the very quick bit i would say same pace as Barney not alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Agree with point 3 except the very quick bit i would say same pace as Barney not alex Therefore, you are also wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 he loses us more points then he saves us in my opinion. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Everyone concedes against Peterborough, we have to just score more than them ;-) Most sensible statement anyone's made. It's nice to have a clean sheet, but they are an attacking side with a phenomenal goal record - you expect them to score. Goalie error? - maybe, defensive error ? - maybe , last minute penalty looked like it hit AOC - under the armpit ! the ref. was keen to even it up (and make sure his car wasn't sabotaged in the car park) - of course he gave it! Despite wind and weather, and errors from both sides - was an entertaining game . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 What Davis should have been doing and fails to do is command his box from crosses. I think he is a fantastic shot-stopper, but his inability to come for crosses is why he is in League and not the Prem. It is a fatal flaw in his game and at the age he is untreatable. It makes us defend too deep and any contact in the six yard box is always liable to be a goal. It should not be down to Harding or Seaborne to clear it - it was a keeper's ball and we have seen it many many times before. Evidently not, given that West Ham tried to buy him. He catches plenty of crosses. Personally I would rather have him in goal than some clown who goes flying after everything. He saved a one-on-one yesterday; he saved a one-on-one on Tuesday night. I was surprised he didn't save one of their penalties yesterday - that's how good he has been for us for the last couple of years. Had Seaborne and Harding done their jobs properly yesterday those two chances wouldn't have happened. By all means, it is a valid opinion that maybe the first shot might have been saved but David doesn't deserve the same level of criticism as those two. EDIT: and neither does Davis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 6 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 6 February, 2011 I think KD knows he could have done better with the first. He knows the same about goals at Tranmere & was it Brentford. I would not drop him. I would however make it clear to him that his standards have dropped & he needs to up them. It happens to every player. They have an off period. Work harder........ FWIW - If (when) we get promoted I think we will look for another keeper. That would do for me. Too many people are allowing Davis to play on the basis of last season's performances... I don't want him sent to the goulags FFS (although some of the more idiotic drama queens on here seem to be suggesting I do), I simply want players out of form to be dropped for a game or two to work their way back into the team. Isn't that what every successful team in the land do?? What has Bart done wrong to be left on the sidelines while our keeper underperforms?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 We definitely need to review our goalkeeping options for next season. But dropping Kelvin for Bart, when Bart has played so little first team stuff in recent years and has never played in a run of games so critical to the club, is a big, big, gamble. I find it unfortunate that Kelvin's f**k ups today and against Tranmere didnt happen during December or early in the transfer window, when NA might have been more inclined to do something about it. I agree . We've lost only 8 league games ...out of 27 ...and Kelvin wasn't responsible for of all those defeats either. I agree Bart need games, but if he's no better, (or perhaps worse than KD 's recent matches) , we might blow the promotion push. I'd not be ready to drop Kelvin ---yet ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 'always keep a-hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZuess1979 the 2nd Posted 6 February, 2011 Share Posted 6 February, 2011 Seabourne at fault for the first should have put it in row z before the ball had even reach the box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But near post tut tut Harding did even try and play the ball for the second, he reacted to late to the cross. yes KD could have come and collected it but he had 3 defenders who should have delt with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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