hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 at the end of the day...I could not care..just speculating why someone rather outspoken against the club is not afforded any perks....sound familiar..? No you were criticising him for not saying if he has been given a reason when he had said that.
NickG Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Nope you miss nothing. I'm just not taking sides that is all. Should a fan be able to buy an ST? - Yes Should a club be able to have a reason NOT to sell it to a fan? - Yes COULD there be reasons why the club made that decision? - Yes (IMHO) Could there be a reason why the club chose NOt to talk to IFO? - Yes Now, that LAST one could be because of i) pig headed stubbornness or ii) corporate poilcy or iii) the fan in question did something to annoy the club Should Nick be given back his ticket? - I don't KNOW is my valid Opinion and won't be swayed by hearsay and Jolly nice chap comments. He IS allowed to attend games, but not at a "discounted bulk price" So again, as I said earlier, because we DON'T KNOW. Could it have been that he was one who did not actually fulfill his installment obligations? Could it have been because the club thought he was benefitting commercially from selling "Un-Authorised" Merchandise? Could it have been that he insulted someone? WE DON'T KNOW. When we find out I'll be happy to have an opinion on either side of the argument Agree with all of that. It appears that none of us or the ombudsman know the story.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 No you were criticising him for not saying if he has been given a reason when he had said that. I was not..just offering an opinion..it effects me and my life and my enjoyment for saints around.....0% what ever happens to illingsworth...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 it's sad that a saints fan has been refused a season ticket, but he can still come and watch the games so not as bad as it could have been. i wonder if other fans meticulously dissect every aspect of their club in the way we do? it's sad how political this board (but maybe us fans in general- not that i'm suggesting this board is 'representative' of all saints fans, that doesn't seem to go down too well) has become. i'm sure there are some like nick who are genuinely very angry about this, but most of these posts want to spout some hatred about a subject that has little effect on them and, as far as i'm concerned, makes little difference to my life or my support of my team. to think that this puts a downer on our win is laughable. Well, should you ever find yourself in such a situation as Nick finds himself in then you might well be hoping that someone, such as Nick, offers a helping hand. Then again he might adopt your attitude, comment that it doesn't affect him and say, less politely than you have just said, Eff You Mate, I'm Alright. However I suspect he'd still attempt to help you.
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Lets get something straight here, no fan will be banned for no reason.
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I was not..just offering an opinion..it effects me and my life and my enjoyment for saints around.....0% what ever happens to illingsworth... But it does affect you how fans are treated. What if suddenly you were given the same treatment?
NickG Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 On the contrary, I'm glad someone has had the balls to go through what is doubtless a tedious and unrewarding process just to try and get some answers. He has not even said it's to prevent others having to go through the same problems for (as the IFO has basically concluded) no good reason, but I don't doubt it's intended partially to hold the club accountable for their actions, as well as so that Illingsworth gets some answers personally. First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. A bit over-emotive, but the principle is the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law lol!!
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 But it does affect you how fans are treated. What if suddenly you were given the same treatment? then it will effect me and I will get on with my life.....but right now, it has zero effect on me..... at the end of the day, this is about a game played by people who get paid a stupid amount of money
whiteleySaint30 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Bloke is *****, good riddance. Jog on down the road and join Mr W******d, he will fit in so much better there. Ripped fand of a JPT final with *hit part, sold rip off merchandise, *osser. Did he have anything to do with the Save our Saints day I attended where everyone paid £5 at the stadium and the money went astray, either way we can do without him.
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 They have explained the reasons for a lack of ST instalments, and was perfectly in keeping with what many of us sane posters were saying at the time, even though we had the gang banging on about conspiracy theories earlier in the season. Unfortunately the club's "reasons" for a lack of ST instalments also lacked any explanation for why they couldn't have announced the prices in March so that fans could have paid up by the start of the season, removing any worry about people defaulting, AND failed to indicate why they didn't offer credit agreements rather than the flawed DD approach necessitated by administration and time constraints in 2009. Which of course were just two of the approaches they could have followed without inconveniencing their most loyal customers, even without getting into the research StuRomseySaint did and whether that made the club's explanation even less convincing.
dune Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Did he have anything to do with the Save our Saints day I attended where everyone paid £5 at the stadium and the money went astray, either way we can do without him. I think you'll find that the money taken for tickets didn't even cover the costs.
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Bloke is *****, good riddance. Jog on down the road and join Mr W******d, he will fit in so much better there. Ripped fand of a JPT final with *hit part, sold rip off merchandise, *osser. Did he have anything to do with the Save our Saints day I attended where everyone paid £5 at the stadium and the money went astray, either way we can do without him. Ah, make that eight.
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law lol!! Oh I know. But you'd have thought Godwin would have mentioned it first.
whiteleySaint30 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I think you'll find that the money taken for tickets didn't even cover the costs. What costs? a bouncy castle doesnt cost that much!!!!
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Unfortunately the club's "reasons" for a lack of ST instalments also lacked any explanation for why they couldn't have announced the prices in March so that fans could have paid up by the start of the season, removing any worry about people defaulting, AND failed to indicate why they didn't offer credit agreements rather than the flawed DD approach necessitated by administration and time constraints in 2009. Which of course were just two of the approaches they could have followed without inconveniencing their most loyal customers, even without getting into the research StuRomseySaint did and whether that made the club's explanation even less convincing. I fully agree with the fact that the clubs communication issues have been kak for a long time, this is something even NC said he needs to work on (although no particularly well looking at this) the club should have voiced everything about the ST issues, and yes, it stopped me getting a ST at the time. But I never agreed or should i say, fell into the trap made by the romsey idiot, in fact, even when i countered his arguements with credible and sensible arguements i was met with abuse from him and his little gremlin Hypo. The club have made a valid reason for the ST installment removal, SRS' research was nothing more than one sided, unsubstantiated crap and seriously i thought more of you the9 then to have actually fallen under its sway. I even got a f*cking infraction from Granty because i was argueing against SRS and his gay little gang.
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 sold rip off merchandise, If we're to castigate him, then at least let's kick him in the right places. The UI merchandise was actually pretty decent quality (made by the same supplier that One True Saxon use) and in no way called be called rip off. The designs were pretty decent as well.
dune Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 The designs were pretty decent as well. I think the term an aquired taste is more apt.
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Lets get something straight here, no fan will be banned for no reason. I would have to agree with you on that one. I very much doubt that NI's name was just pulled out of a hat and giving a banning just for a laugh. But the crunch is whether the reason is justified, proportionate and verifiable. Additionally, as the IFO report states, "this power should be exercised reasonably and in conformity with the good customer care philosophy extolled on the Club’s website." Let's be quite blunt here, IMHO NI has pssed off Cortese with some of his views relating to certain issues (primarily the season ticket renewal issues) and NI has aired some of these views privately, some publicly and probably some to Cortese's face. Cortese's taken umbrage at this and hit back in a way that he knew would affect NI. By the time the season came round Cortese probably knew he had acted in haste and couldn't justify banning him from the stadium, so just allowed him to buy a ticket on a match by match basis.
trousers Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Did he have anything to do with the Save our Saints day I attended where everyone paid £5 at the stadium and the money went astray Do you mean "Saints Aid"? I know a lot of people that gave up a huge amount of their time to help the cause on that day, and in the days and weeks leading up to it. I've no idea where the money ended up but a helluva lot of effort was put in by the organisers and participants, I know that much.
trousers Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Let's be quite blunt here, IMHO NI has ****ed off Cortese with some of his views relating to certain issues (primarily the season ticket renewal issues) and NI has aired some of these views privately, some publicly and probably some to Cortese's face. Cortese's taken umbrage at this and hit back in a way that he knew would affect NI. By the time the season came round Cortese probably knew he had acted in haste and couldn't justify banning him from the stadium, so just allowed him to buy a ticket on a match by match basis. Seems a reasonable hypothesis.
capitalsaint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Well, should you ever find yourself in such a situation as Nick finds himself in then you might well be hoping that someone, such as Nick, offers a helping hand. Then again he might adopt your attitude, comment that it doesn't affect him and say, less politely than you have just said, Eff You Mate, I'm Alright. However I suspect he'd still attempt to help you. i haven't said eff anybody. how does discussing something on a forum lead to you helping him? if i typed 'cortese was a fool and the club should give nick a ticket straight away' what would happen? what's that? nothing. this is a forum, not the houses of parliament. what helping hand has been offered by typing on a forum? have the club suddenly changed their minds because of an anonymous opinion? i'm sure it's terrible for nick, BUT he can still pay to see games, he hasn't been banned. in addition i don't know any of the facts, so why would i condemn the club i support? since when are fans more loyal to each other than the club? my point was not actually about nick, and i'm pretty surprised that you aren't intelligent enough to see that, it was a response to the usual 'cortese needs to sort himself out blah blah'.
brmbrm Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 The club just appear childish, spiteful and vindictive about this whole thing. Clearly a lot of people hate Nick, but that doesn't affect the pathetic behaviour of SFC over this affair.
trousers Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Clearly a lot of people hate Nick How many is "a lot"?
wessex saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 The club just appear childish, spiteful and vindictive about this whole thing. Clearly a lot of people hate Nick, but that doesn't affect the pathetic behaviour of SFC over this affair. Agree with your 1st sentence unfortunately. Let's hope all the additional cost of stewarding the Northam due to everyone standing doesn't irritate Cortese next, or there may be a whole lot more who suddenly can't renew their season tickets:) People might then start to talk about the principle involved rather than the individual
Appy Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Lets get something straight here, no fan will be banned for no reason. This
brmbrm Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Lets get something straight here, no fan will be banned for no reason. Unfortunately that doesn't mean "no fan will be banned for no good reason" (or fair reason or legally valid reason or whatever).
Jonnyboy Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Oh I know. But you'd have thought Godwin would have mentioned it first. But you didnt mention the N word or the H word! Youre off the hook.
Jonnyboy Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 i haven't said eff anybody. how does discussing something on a forum lead to you helping him? if i typed 'cortese was a fool and the club should give nick a ticket straight away' what would happen? what's that? nothing. this is a forum, not the houses of parliament. what helping hand has been offered by typing on a forum? have the club suddenly changed their minds because of an anonymous opinion? i'm sure it's terrible for nick, BUT he can still pay to see games, he hasn't been banned. in addition i don't know any of the facts, so why would i condemn the club i support? since when are fans more loyal to each other than the club? my point was not actually about nick, and i'm pretty surprised that you aren't intelligent enough to see that, it was a response to the usual 'cortese needs to sort himself out blah blah'. you love Cortese, Na na na na naaa na!
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Unfortunately that doesn't mean "no fan will be banned for no good reason" (or fair reason or legally valid reason or whatever). We don't know the reasons though, both sides are very quiet. Which isn't good on either side.
capitalsaint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 you love Cortese, Na na na na naaa na! or maybe i am him
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Lets get something straight here, no fan will be banned for no reason. Two angles on this, either 1) He hasn't been banned because he's able to buy tickets on a match by match basis - which is hardly a concession... or 2) He HAS been banned from having a ST. Whichever angle you want to take, he's been restricted from doing something all the rest of us are able to do, and the club hasn't provided a reason.
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 How many is "a lot"? I'm pretty sure my "eight" was up to date at the time, so you only have to count the hate mail from there...
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I fully agree with the fact that the clubs communication issues have been kak for a long time, this is something even NC said he needs to work on (although no particularly well looking at this) the club should have voiced everything about the ST issues, and yes, it stopped me getting a ST at the time. But I never agreed or should i say, fell into the trap made by the romsey idiot, in fact, even when i countered his arguements with credible and sensible arguements i was met with abuse from him and his little gremlin Hypo. The club have made a valid reason for the ST installment removal, SRS' research was nothing more than one sided, unsubstantiated crap and seriously i thought more of you the9 then to have actually fallen under its sway. I even got a f*cking infraction from Granty because i was argueing against SRS and his gay little gang. All things considered I still think his argument has more validity than the club's, so we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. But I assure you I'm not in Stuey's gang.
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 for me the issue is that regardless of the reason he was banned from holding a season ticket, the very least he deserves is an explanation. To not give one (when he was told he was allowed to have one.) just seems petty and needlessly vindictive.
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I also see from the quoted post that spastic saint is still posting inaccurate information and talking about me. It seems that even putting him on ignore he can't take the hint. I'm starting to get even more concerned about him. Strange little child.
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 All things considered I still think his argument has more validity than the club's, so we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. But I assure you I'm not in Stuey's gang. We will agree to disagree, from what i found his so called research had more holes than a pompey balance sheet, added to the fact that he was incapable of a two sided arguement and anything posted in response was greeted with anger and spamming then you could never actually look at anything he ever posted in any analytical way. As for the other post, i probably didn't mean Banned as such. But all in all, no fan will be restricted for no reason. The club not giving a reason however i agree is unprofessional but then as i have said we have heard nothing from either party.
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Nick has stated on his forum on numerous occasions that he has never received a reason for being banned.
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 And i see that Nick has stated, many times on the other forum that he has no idea why he has been 'restricted' and i would imagine that is utter b*llocks.
Appy Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Is being a cock not enough reason for being banned?
St Marco Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I agree with others that he deserves an explanation at the very least. Hopefully Cortese or whoever deals with the tickets will finally give him that explanation. But as i said before it would not surprise me to see that explanation be that Cortese thinks he went against the club by flogging un-official merchandise/souvenirs. Which however you want to spin it was for personal gain. Where as obviously if you bought the official stuff that money goes to the club. But he is at least owed that explanation if that is indeed what it is. He is not banned though so i think that word needs to be dropped. He can go to any game he wants. He just can't buy a season ticket.
chocco boxo Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 Surely someone can buy a season ticket for him? obviously not in his name?
brmbrm Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 Is being a cock not enough reason for being banned? I take it you're banned then. Fair enough.
NickG Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 maybe the club are being kind, the reason may hurt his feelings
Frank's cousin Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 Dear Mr Cortese Firstly, I have no idea as to the reasons the club has for denying the right of purchase of a Season Ticket to Nick Illingsworth. I understand that it is the clubs right to refuse purchase/admission on many grounds, so I am sure that the club does have a rational reason for Nick's exclusion. Firstly, I would like to say that following the euphoria that surrounded Markus's purchase and rescue of the club and your arrival as Executive chairman, eventually, some fans did begin to ask questions about how the new regime would effect the culture we have at the club. As you yourself, pointed out, we do have a very negative outlook - this is really a legacy of so many false dawns, hope shattered through ineffective leadership in the past, and if we are being really honest, often a lack of understanding of the commercial realities versus footballing dreams of fans, and how there are often times when teh two apprea poles apart. However, slowly, most fans are coming round to the ideas that the approach that the directors and managemnet have been taking in the last 15 months is beginning to pay off. The position in the table, the quality of players and manager, the work ethic and the style are great to see and as fans we need to really acknowledge that its working. However, I do believe that anything that is good and successful is so because it can stand up to criticism, acknowledges when things can improve, and responds appropriately to misunderstandings - we do have fans that are still suspicious, perhaps struggle with seeing seeing what has always been a traditional football culture being 'modernised' with a strong business and commercial drive as we have seen with Saints. Yes, the success we have will win them over, but surely but by actions such as this ST row with NIck, it merely fels the suspicions of thsoe that are still not on board. NIck has always worn his Saints heart on his sleeve, perhaps he is old fashioned in respect to what he sees as the true football culture and thus is perhaps more critical than some. Maybe, and I am speculating, the fact that he does make these feelings public is the problem? I would put it to you ( and I am sure you know) the best way to answer critics is with success. Be they the slightly bitter 'dark forces' for whom the regime change in itself was never going to sit well, or simple passionate fans whose engrained football culture was always going to take some convincing - I think I can safely say that NIck will be more than happy to sing the clubs praises and that of the management if the approaches taken work and we see on the field success. The vast majority of us fans are fully supportive and behind what you and your staff are doing and are positive and excited by possibilties of the future, but we want to be inclusive and want ALL fans to be brought along for the ride! If we see what looks on the surface as possibly an injustice (and I admit we do not know all the facts), we believ its right to ask the questions of the club. I suspect that this ban is a legacy form the past, and even Nick might not be so critical now the benefits of the approach the club is taking are clear for all to see? I also believe in the decency of Markus Liebherr - And by that nature, those of his friends and business partners - Therefore, the benefits of reaching out to fans like NIck and resolving the issues, and removing the last hints of negativity would be beneficial to all. I would also show everyone that the club culture is one that is truely exceptional, which we know it wants to be. Thanks again for what you are doing for this great club. Best Frank's cousin
georgeweahscousin Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 I find it difficult to take the "I've been given no reason why from the club", when I haven't been given any reason why, the facilities I was promised when buying a ticket for the Wembley debacle didn't materialise.
St_Tel49 Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 Nobody is saying that it's (a) "ok" to not sell someone a ticket for no reason whatsoever (although, that's any retailer's prerogative) or (b) it's "ok" not to tell someone why they can't have a ticket. All those of us sitting on the 'fence of judgement' are saying is that we'd rather have the full facts before making a judgement one way or the other. As I've said several times, the anecdotal evidence suggests the club are being unreasonable and if that's the case it would be nice to see an apology. If, however, it transpires they did have a valid reason (in their eyes) then the debate can move on to whether people think their reason was understandable or not. I don't know the full facts thus I won't make a judgement one way or the other (I'm an agnostic rather than an atheist for the same logical reasons) I thought this thread was about showing solidarity for fellow saints fans rather than criticising them for reserving judgement? ;-) Trousers, normally I would take the line that you are taking but what makes no flaming sense at all is that fact that he can buy match tickets but not a season ticket. If his misdemeanour is so heinous why is he even being allowed to buy match tickets? The club has been offered the opportunity to make its case to a recognised body and has chosen not to take it. In making judgements when information is sparse I tend to go with the balance of probabilities and, to me, the balance of probabilities is that NC is being petty. I tend to support NC's position on most things but I find it difficult to do so on this one.
OldNick Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 The reason the club has refused a season tickets is because Nick was selling t-shirts etc from http://www.coys.com which no longer exists. He used the clubs name to promote everything. I didn't go to Silver spoons as I refuse to pay to enter a pub. But from the people that did it was 3 cans of carling for a tenner, No ex-saints players turned up, ****e music, No food and to packed. Fair play Saints FC! He has ripped off thousands. Read the comments here.. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/6452016.Saints_fans__party_was__a_victim_of_success__say_organisers/?ref=twt&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=saintsfc,+southampton there were 6 of us who were treated badly by Nicks organisation and never was a refund offered. I know NI has been going for most of his life and a die hard but he did things that cost the club revenue. He also misled the fans on the Wembley event (he was part of the organisation not solely him of course, to allow a Pompey fan rip us off was even more galling). He is not banned but the privilege of a S/T has been withdrawn, there is of course a difference.
trousers Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 Trousers, normally I would take the line that you are taking but what makes no flaming sense at all is that fact that he can buy match tickets but not a season ticket. If his misdemeanour is so heinous why is he even being allowed to buy match tickets? The club has been offered the opportunity to make its case to a recognised body and has chosen not to take it. In making judgements when information is sparse I tend to go with the balance of probabilities and, to me, the balance of probabilities is that NC is being petty. I tend to support NC's position on most things but I find it difficult to do so on this one. My gut feeling is pretty much the same as yours TBH. The 'in a nutshell' statement being "it makes no flaming sense"....
Secret Site Agent Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 (edited) All things considered I still think his argument has more validity than the club's, so we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. But I assure you I'm not in Stuey's gang. Do you wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang? Do you wanna be in my gang, Oh, yeh. : BO: Edited 3 February, 2011 by Secret Site Agent
Big Bad Bob Posted 3 February, 2011 Posted 3 February, 2011 Trousers, normally I would take the line that you are taking but what makes no flaming sense at all is that fact that he can buy match tickets but not a season ticket. If his misdemeanour is so heinous why is he even being allowed to buy match tickets? The club has been offered the opportunity to make its case to a recognised body and has chosen not to take it. In making judgements when information is sparse I tend to go with the balance of probabilities and, to me, the balance of probabilities is that NC is being petty. I tend to support NC's position on most things but I find it difficult to do so on this one. My gut feeling is pretty much the same as yours TBH. The 'in a nutshell' statement being "it makes no flaming sense".... How easy is it to stop an individual sourcing match tickets on a match by match basis, no way could you stop that happening. Of course you could ban said individual from the ground BUT you'd have to have a damn good reason for that. Bet you anything you like, though, said individual has an ST sourced through a friend.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now