The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 This TDD. I posted something similar earlier which was totally ignored. NI took the **** with that silverspoons nonsense and those awful t shirts. Not condoning the clubs actions without all the facts but 1 thing that is fact is that silverspoons was a rip off and was organised by nick using the clubs name/logo. And if the club had come out and said that was the reason would that have been a problem for anyone ? I can almost accept that as a legitimate reason - my issue here is with the club not feeling they have to justify it to anyone, which as the IFO indicates is not entirely out of line with their policy on photographer accreditation and, as I might note, a similar response to their high-handed pronouncements on ST instalments.
Topcat Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Now I HAVE met Nic,and spoken to him on a couple of occasions - Sure its annoying when the media add the 'voice of fans tag' - ****es me off no end, but It does not stem from Nick. He obviously cares deeply about Saints and has in the past been prepared to get involved when others have not... not saying i agree with everything he says, or believes, but I do think he is a decent bloke with his heart very much in the right place. However, we do not know the reasons for the ST ban. iIs it just vindictiveness on part of the club because of negative things said on his web site UI? Did he break the ST rules in some way? Has he infringed copyright on his site? I dont know and untilo I do, I wont pass judgement on either. Was this ban not put in place by previous owners? dont recall. Frank, please read the report. Saints gave no explanation for their action to the IFO. They even offered to hear the Saints talk under "Chatham House rules". I have also never met Nick. he was treated appallingly by Saints and it seems clear it stems from Cortese who has made a number of PR mistakes. Just like Lowe did.
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Nasty replies from many on here. To be expected.
beatlesaint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 The reason Nick was not given a season ticket is quite simply because when he has a **** at half time he is incapable of reading a bloody great sign that says NO EXIT and ALWAYS goes out the wrong door !!!!
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 And if the club had come out and said that was the reason would that have been a problem for anyone ? I can almost accept that as a legitimate reason - my issue here is with the club not feeling they have to justify it to anyone, which as the IFO indicates is not entirely out of line with their policy on photographer accreditation and, as I might note, a similar response to their high-handed pronouncements on ST instalments. But then NI has never ever offered an explanation or and inclination that he knows why either, for any reason whatsoever, which i also find rather strange. But i agree in sentiments, because the club has refused an explanation.
docker-p Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I have known Nick for over 5 years and I can honestly say he has never claimed to represent Saints fans. However others, namely the media, see him as such. This causes the 'jealousy' so apparent in some of his opponents posts. Those of you expressing apathy at his situation, and indeed gloating, should be ashamed of yourselves, you are not true Saints fans in my eyes. Here is a fellow Saints fan being treated unfairly by our club. This same Saints fan has remained totally loyal to the club throughout this sad situation, he has not made any comment since the ruling. Basically because he was where you'd expect the loyalists of fans to be, away supporting the Saints! He is at every game, as far as I am aware, despite not having his ST. It's ironic, that had this happened to any other Saints fan.. Nick would be the first to back them. In our dark days prior to being rescued by Marcus, Nick was at the front trying to raise funds to keep us going, goading all that would listen to fill the stadium, as were others. In my eyes he represents my ideal supporter, there in times of trouble and diversity, whatever the the weather or fortunes of our club. You have to respect that kind of loyalty and dedication. I only hope that Cortese has this loyalty towards us if things were to go wrong. It's simple, the club has been found wrong in it's treatment of a fellow fan. What well they do, to put it right? If they just ignore the ruling they are being disrespectful to all our fans. +1. However, I imagine as the club ignored the ombudsmen, they will ignore the conclusion. And we thought Lowe was bad at PR !!
Topcat Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 (edited) This is from the Report. Given that the Club has chosen to confide neither in the League nor in the IFO, it is not possible to discern the real reason for the treatment of the complainant, which the Club admits is unique. Club officials stated that the Club had chosen to demonstrate its powers on this occasion and it would appear that a similar motive explained recent disputes over press accreditation and access for photographers. In other words the Club is very bad at PR and treated this customer very badly, just like it treated the press and photographers! Furthermore, the IFO has been given no satisfactory explanation of or justification for the “punishment” meted out to the complainant. Although the IFO recognises Southampton FC’s legal right to refuse to sell a ticket without having to give an explanation, this power should be exercised reasonably and in conformity with the good customer care philosophy extolled on the Club’s website. Edited 2 February, 2011 by Topcat
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 If i owned a business and some cowboy trader used my business name to rip of hundreds of so called fellow loyal customers, I too would not allow him/her any perks What does this refer to????
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Hypo, Topcat and Docker_p have found the thread, I fully expect it to only go one way from now on.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 What does this refer to???? "saints rock wembley" at silverspoons... many have asked for their money back/apology/explanation...and have had neither
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 "saints rock wembley" at silverspoons... many have asked for their money back/apology/explanation...and have had neither TBF that is a very good point. Stones and glass houses, but then you are comparing Saints FC to a poorly planned and disasterous event organised by an amateur. Southampton FC SHOULD be more professional than that, and that is coming from a big fan of Cortese.
trousers Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Nasty replies from many on here. To be expected. How many is "many"..?
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 TBF that is a very good point. Stones and glass houses, but then you are comparing Saints FC to a poorly planned and disasterous event organised by an amateur. Southampton FC SHOULD be more professional than that, and that is coming from a big fan of Cortese. maybe they should be...you are right.. but IF...IF this is any part of the clubs reasons...then I kind of see their point..... then again...I wonder if it is something far less...or far worse and completely different...im sure nick knows why or has a very good idea why..yet he does not say
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 How many is "many"..? About Seven people. Not you trousers more the people who because they don't like nick they confuse the issue and fail to realise it is not about him
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 maybe they should be...you are right.. but IF...IF this is any part of the clubs reasons...then I kind of see their point..... then again...I wonder if it is something far less...or far worse and completely different...im sure nick knows why or has a very good idea why..yet he does not say He has never been given a reason.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 He has never been given a reason. you know that for a fact do you.....thought not
Secret Site Agent Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 As much as i sympathise with NI, does it not annoy some people that although this is happening to him, it has to happen in public? Do we know of anyone else this has happened to? And if it happened to me, or anyone of you, would we get this sort of coverage?
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_House_Rule For those of you who had to Google it like me... it basically means sources of information will be kept confidential.
Secret Site Agent Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Hypo, Topcat and Docker_p have found the thread, I fully expect it to only go one way from now on. Lets be very afraid:
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 you know that for a fact do you.....thought not Yes because he said so smart a*se. So do I get an apology or will you run away like normal?
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 (edited) As much as i sympathise with NI, does it not annoy some people that although this is happening to him, it has to happen in public? Do we know of anyone else this has happened to? And if it happened to me, or anyone of you, would we get this sort of coverage? On the contrary, I'm glad someone has had the balls to go through what is doubtless a tedious and unrewarding process just to try and get some answers. He has not even said it's to prevent others having to go through the same problems for (as the IFO has basically concluded) no good reason, but I don't doubt it's intended partially to hold the club accountable for their actions, as well as so that Illingsworth gets some answers personally. First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. A bit over-emotive, but the principle is the same. Edited 2 February, 2011 by The9
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Yes because he said so smart a*se. So do I get an apology or will you run away like normal? run away..? lol oh, if nick says so....cortese days so about things yet you dont believe him..?
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Yes because he said so smart a*se. So do I get an apology or will you run away like normal? LoL Hypocrite is back in force i see. Thats what he heard btw TDD, obviously after someone else said it.
aintforever Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I think part of the reason for trousers' head-banging there may have been that the club is clearly more than happy to take his money on a game by game basis, as stated numerous times in this thread and the judgement. You're assuming Nick still wants to go on a game by game basis, I would tell them to go poke it. At best I would cherry pick the occasional good game. I fail to see how turning down £400 odd ST money is in the interest of SFC.
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 "saints rock wembley" at silverspoons... many have asked for their money back/apology/explanation...and have had neither As much of a farce that that event seemed to have been, I'm not sure NI was trading off of the back of the Club's good name. Surely no one confused it with an Officially sanctioned event?? The bloke whose coach we went on promised us an executive one. When we got on it it was a clapped out thing with a barely functioning toilet!!! Obviously wasn't happy at the situation, but not sure I would accuse that fella of ripping off loyal fans and trading off the back of the clubs good name.
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 you know that for a fact do you.....thought not As far as an independent inquiry can ascertain, we do know that for a fact, yes.
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 run away..? lol oh, if nick says so....cortese days so about things yet you dont believe him..? So you disbelieve nick then? You think he has been given an answer put chose to go Down this route anyway?
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 So you disbelieve nick then? You think he has been given an answer put chose to go Down this route anyway? I dont know what to believe...but if silverspoons has anything to do with it...AS I HAVE SAID...I can kind of see WHY the club MIGHT do this
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 As much of a farce that that event seemed to have been, I'm not sure NI was trading off of the back of the Club's good name. Surely no one confused it with an Officially sanctioned event?? The bloke whose coach we went on promised us an executive one. When we got on it it was a clapped out thing with a barely functioning toilet!!! Obviously wasn't happy at the situation, but not sure I would accuse that fella of ripping off loyal fans and trading off the back of the clubs good name. the ex saints speakers at the gig...were any actually booked..?
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 As far as an independent inquiry can ascertain, we do know that for a fact, yes. I would imagine that NI has a reasonable idea though. When you get called in for one of those chats at work, of course you have a pretty good idea whats going on, even if you tell everyone you havn't got a clue as admitting you know would degrade your position. Of course, the club definately knows, and FWIW i think it is making it worse whatever reason it is witholding info, for one, it looks bad for just witholding info and secondly all the time it does then conspiracy theorists have a field day.
Deppo Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 TBF that is a very good point. Stones and glass houses, but then you are comparing Saints FC to a poorly planned and disasterous event organised by an amateur. Southampton FC SHOULD be more professional than that, and that is coming from a big fan of Cortese. Indeed. It's a been a couple of years since Southampton FC was a poorly planned event organised by an amateur.
aintforever Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Delldays, I doubt Cortese even went to Silverspoons, he probably made his own arrangements.
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 You're assuming Nick still wants to go on a game by game basis, I would tell them to go poke it. At best I would cherry pick the occasional good game. I fail to see how turning down £400 odd ST money is in the interest of SFC. I'm not, I'm assuming that the club is happy to take his money because they've not stopped him being able to pay altogether. I get your point, but at the very least their policy is in line with the lack of ST instalments.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Delldays, I doubt Cortese even went to Silverspoons, he probably made his own arrangements. eer, so...
spain saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 My thoughts exactly. Sums up so many of our fans and so many of the people on here. I hope they never end up in a situation whereby the support and assistance of other fans would be of use. As long as they're alright, sod everyone else. I have never heard of any club doing this before and there have been FAR worse campaigns against various club owners than anything NI may or may not have done "against" NC's regime. You have never heard of it happening to any other Fan because if it had been any other fan we wouldn't know about it! I think it is laughable that a lot of people have jumped on the band wagon against the club without knowing why this happened! I also fail to see why people that have known him for so long don't know the facts either!
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I dont know what to believe...but if silverspoons has anything to do with it...AS I HAVE SAID...I can kind of see WHY the club MIGHT do this So when you said I knew for a fact and I conformed I did you were actually incorrect right?
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I'm not, I'm assuming that the club is happy to take his money because they've not stopped him being able to pay altogether. I get your point, but at the very least their policy is in line with the lack of ST instalments. They have explained the reasons for a lack of ST instalments, and was perfectly in keeping with what many of us sane posters were saying at the time, even though we had the gang banging on about conspiracy theories earlier in the season.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 So when you said I knew for a fact and I conformed I did you were actually incorrect right? I don believe YOU...that is a FACT
aintforever Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 eer, so... I seriously doubt he's hacked off with Illingsworth because the beer was a bit expensive at some party.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I seriously doubt he's hacked off with Illingsworth because the beer was a bit expensive at some party. so, basically...like te rest of us, you have no idea either..?
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I dont know what to believe...but if silverspoons has anything to do with it...AS I HAVE SAID...I can kind of see WHY the club MIGHT do this And I'm not speculating on the reason, simply stating that I believe it is unacceptable that the club have failed to give him one.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 And I'm not speculating on the reason, simply stating that I believe it is unacceptable that the club have failed to give him one. at the end of the day...I could not care..just speculating why someone rather outspoken against the club is not afforded any perks....sound familiar..?
The9 Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I would imagine that NI has a reasonable idea though. When you get called in for one of those chats at work, of course you have a pretty good idea whats going on, even if you tell everyone you havn't got a clue as admitting you know would degrade your position. Of course, the club definately knows, and FWIW i think it is making it worse whatever reason it is witholding info, for one, it looks bad for just witholding info and secondly all the time it does then conspiracy theorists have a field day. He's a bit damned if you do and damned if you don't on this one, the mere mention of being considered by some a spokesperson for the fans blah blah in the IFO Report (yes, it is in there) is probably not sitting well with the seven or so people who were "playing the man" from the start of this thread, but as it may well be the only thing causing this situation to have arisen it's valid for it to have been raised - and for as long as the club doesn't provide a reason, we're only able to speculate on what the specific reason might be, just as Nick Illingsworth is.
aintforever Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 so, basically...like te rest of us, you have no idea either..? I would guess it was his criticism of the ST installment fiasco, fits in with Cortese's other dummy-out-of-pram moments.
um pahars Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 the ex saints speakers at the gig...were any actually booked..? No idea! But I do think it's a rather large leap to try and bring the apparent farcical silverspoons gig in to being a potential reason not to sell someone a season ticket. Our coach organiser might be next, hell, given the moans on here about the database maybe baj and Granth could be next!
hypochondriac Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I don believe YOU...that is a FACT But you thought I didn't know as a fact that nick had not been given a reason when he has stated on more than one occasion on tui that he never had one. So I did know and you were incorrect. Glad we cleared that up.
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 I would guess it was his criticism of the ST installment fiasco, fits in with Cortese's other dummy-out-of-pram moments. ah.....but i might be to do with silverspoons....seeing as we are guessing here...
dubai_phil Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 But the points here are that 1) The Ombudsman role exists in order to make clubs accountable in this way (and has failed because the club has basically decided its above the process) and 2) What possible LEGITIMATE reason could the club have that they're not prepared to share ? I have no idea. However I fully expect that the club's lawyers have a very good (and defendable) position. To Gemmel. I am NOT defending the club's position. All I am saying is that there are two parties who could know the reason. I am sure that EVERY poster on this forum has at least once in their life upset someone and cannot for the life of them understand why. I also accept that IS incredibly annoying and frustrating. The issue in Nick's case though IS a little bit different. In "real" life, I have found that the only way to find out is to ask contacts mutual friends and eventually sit down and talk about the problem. If I find I was wrong I apologise to their face. I sure as heck NEVER told the press about something. My ONLY thought here is that these things are always done (in "real life") outside of the glare of the media. So again. I don't know whether Nick deserves this or not. The Ombudman stated "no evidence from the club" therefore he HAS to find in favour of Nick - that's fair, but again the club MAY have had a reason for NOT providing evidence, the Ombudsman is an arbitrator in a dispute. For all we know, the position of the club may NOT be in dispute. They may believe they have a legally sound case. And again ONLY as an example, Nick MAY have breached the rules regarding use of club logos. He may NOT have. But if he DID then the club COULD have taken this stance to avoid embarrassing him further. OR they may just be nasty people. I'm on record as believing "NC is a ****, but at least he is our ****". FFS he is an Italian, for all we know Nick may have had a rant and suggested that NC wore fake Armani suits! So, I'm sorry. I did not believe George W Bush or Tony Blair I didn't believe Gordon Brown or Maggie or McMillan I am a confirmed Cynic. There is a reason. I'll judge both parties on that when I know what it was, and if Nick has been wronged I will make it my lifetime ambition to remove the evil curse from our club. If Nick's wrong then well, maybe he can enjoy Saints Player like the rest of us poor souls
Red&White Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 Honestly couldn't care less. Maybe the question of why is relevant. But that it's that Illingsworth character removes any sympathy I could have held. This
Thedelldays Posted 2 February, 2011 Posted 2 February, 2011 No idea! But I do think it's a rather large leap to try and bring the apparent farcical silverspoons gig in to being a potential reason not to sell someone a season ticket. Our coach organiser might be next, hell, given the moans on here about the database maybe baj and Granth could be next! you know, you can get banned from this place with out a reason.....
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