The refusal to sell a season ticket at Southampton FC

[trousers]

The club's actions are indefensible in this case.

 

How can we be so sure of that? We know what the club did but what we don't know is why. Unless I, and the IFO, missed it somewhere?

 

I totally agree that all the anecdotal evidence points to the possibility that the club have handled this shabbily, but we have no tangible evidence to back that up, just anecdotal evidence.

 

In this country, saying "No comment" does not prove guilt. It's a basic right of defence whether we like it or not. Saying nothing doesn't prove anything one way or the other. Yes, it can imply guilt, but that is all.

[Miltonaggro]

All a bit silly from the club really, attempting to crush the 'little guy'. The fact that he is allowed to buy tickets as a member and so in effect can attend every game makes the decision plain daft. Whatever your stance on Nick's personality he is a loyal fan and doesn't deserve prolonged poor treatment - the ombudsman is seldon wrong in cases of reasonableness...

[PokingFun]

After reading (and re-reading the report) I am more than happy to accept the findings of an Independent Third Party who is obviously more privy to the facts (and both sides of the story) than anyone on here, including myself. With this Ombudsman concluding that the Club should apologise and allow Nick to purchase a season ticket, I don't think it's unreasonable to agree that the Club has acted in an unwarranted manner and that it was a therefore an unnecessary incident that should either never have arisen, or been resolved earlier.

 

Of course we could adopt an attitude of denial or ignorance & ignore a ruling by a third party and adopt an attitude of "No one likes us, we don't care", but I would prefer us to be a little bit mature and accept that sometimes we as a Club have got things wrong.

 

As for the dig by stealth, then I'm afraid you're tilting at windmills. I have been unequivocal in my praise for Liebherr, the Liebherr legacy and all those that came to the rescue of our Club (including Cortese who obviously played a major role in the pre and post purchase era, and continues to push us onwards).

 

It is eminently possible to be supportive of someone (or the Club) and yet be mature enough to accept that sometimes it is possible that they have made mistakes.

 

You say that but I work in an industry that has an Ombudsman and often they actually support the consumer rather than the organisation even though the organisation may have done something not quite right on a "technicality". Also, these Ombudsman type organisations are generally not too consistent in applying their own rules either as I have come across similar cases (in my industry) numerous times where we get totally different judgements (sometimes by the same person adjudicating).

 

I don't believe the fact an ombudsman organisation saying anything one way or the other means one was right or wrong given my experiences but I do believe that if the club is a member of such an organisation then it should honour the ruling of such a body otherwise there seems to be little point in taking part .....

[trousers]

but without full story hard to judge.

 

Alas, that logic seems to be falling on a few deaf ears....

[patred44]

I have known Nick for over 5 years and I can honestly say he has never claimed to represent Saints fans.

However others, namely the media, see him as such. This causes the 'jealousy' so apparent in some of his opponents posts.

Those of you expressing apathy at his situation, and indeed gloating, should be ashamed of yourselves, you are not true Saints fans in my eyes.

Here is a fellow Saints fan being treated unfairly by our club.

This same Saints fan has remained totally loyal to the club throughout this sad situation, he has not made any comment since the ruling.

Basically because he was where you'd expect the loyalists of fans to be, away supporting the Saints! He is at every game, as far as I am aware, despite not having his ST.

It's ironic, that had this happened to any other Saints fan.. Nick would be the first to back them.

In our dark days prior to being rescued by Marcus, Nick was at the front trying to raise funds to keep us going, goading all that would listen to fill the stadium, as were others. In my eyes he represents my ideal supporter, there in times of trouble and diversity, whatever the the weather or fortunes of our club.

You have to respect that kind of loyalty and dedication.

I only hope that Cortese has this loyalty towards us if things were to go wrong.

 

It's simple, the club has been found wrong in it's treatment of a fellow fan.

What well they do, to put it right?

 

If they just ignore the ruling they are being disrespectful to all our fans.

[Chez]

I find it quite depressing that Saints fans are more than happy to just turn their back on a fellow supporter who has been treated this way having merely questioned the clubs actions that affect fans. If the club can not be questioned without the fear of sanction then there is something wrong.

[trousers]

After reading (and re-reading the report) I am more than happy to accept the findings of an Independent Third Party who is obviously more privy to the facts (and both sides of the story) than anyone on here

 

The way I read it is that they weren't privy to all the facts as the club refused to divulge all the facts (as they see it). So, the IFO found in favour of NI precisely because that's all they had to go on. (as far as I can tell)

 

So, yes, the club are guilty......of not providing the information requested. And, yes, I think it's odd that if the club did nothing wrong (in their eyes) that they didn't give the IFO the full picture. It could be said that this implies they have something to hide. There again, it could imply that they didn't see it important enough to get embroiled in.

 

All of which supposition means that I will remain a relatively lone voice and not cast judgement on either side.

Edited 2 February, 2011 by trousers

[St_Tel49]

How sad that at the end of a ground breaking transfer window and an away win tonight, such bitter and illinformed posts like this one are back on the board.

 

Just for the record I have met Nick, don't know him in any other than to say hi to, with the exception of a converstaion I had with him, when our ref didnt turn up and someone phoned him short notice to fill the gap, which he duly did (And gave a very harsh penalty against me). The conversation was about his media work.

 

You will not ever find a quote from him, claiming to be the voice of the fans or indeed to speak on behalf of all Saints fans (Despite the 20 posts already saying he does - You are all lying or are just sheep)

 

He loved the limelight so much he offered on numerous occassions to pass it over to others (Some on this board I believe) but there were no takers. My understanding is that offer still stands, although you will need to check with him.

 

Whether I think he is a nice guy or not is irrelevant, but one thing beyond question is he is Saints through and through and whilst you character assainate him on here, he is probably on his way back from Exeter, whilst you cyber warriors put the boot in.

 

He is a ******* Saints fan, home and away, rain or shine and has been treated very very badly. What if one of you lot shout something at a player or a sing a song that the Cortese doesn't like and he takes away your Season ticket ( Not relevant for 99% posters so far on this thread). This is flip side to the brilliance he showed in the transfer window and at a time when it seemed it was picking fights with everyone. But just as the photographic ban was stupid so is this and lets hope he can back down gracefully as he did with that.

 

Oh and Nick your wrong, the IPO is sanctioned by the footballing governing bodies, so the club can ignore but will be fined by the FL and just for good measure, the IPO have reported us to the FL for being in breach of our own charter....... Very professional.....NOT.

 

We owe Cortese alot, but on this occassion he owes Nick.

 

In passing, the IFO requests that the Football League explores whether the Club is in breach of League regulations by not having its Charter available on its website

This pretty much sums up my view. If he can buy tickets for games then there is no conceivable reason why he should not have a season ticket. And, as others have said, HE has never claimed to speak for fans, it is the media who have. By the way, I don't know him.

[Pat from Poole]

I have known Nick for over 5 years and I can honestly say he has never claimed to represent Saints fans.

However others, namely the media, see him as such. This causes the 'jealousy' so apparent in some of his opponents posts.

Those of you expressing apathy at his situation, and indeed gloating, should be ashamed of yourselves, you are not true Saints fans in my eyes.

Here is a fellow Saints fan being treated unfairly by our club.

This same Saints fan has remained totally loyal to the club throughout this sad situation, he has not made any comment since the ruling.

Basically because he was where you'd expect the loyalists of fans to be, away supporting the Saints! He is at every game, as far as I am aware, despite not having his ST.

It's ironic, that had this happened to any other Saints fan.. Nick would be the first to back them.

In our dark days prior to being rescued by Marcus, Nick was at the front trying to raise funds to keep us going, goading all that would listen to fill the stadium, as were others. In my eyes he represents my ideal supporter, there in times of trouble and diversity, whatever the the weather or fortunes of our club.

You have to respect that kind of loyalty and dedication.

I only hope that Cortese has this loyalty towards us if things were to go wrong.

 

It's simple, the club has been found wrong in it's treatment of a fellow fan.

What well they do, to put it right?

 

If they just ignore the ruling they are being disrespectful to all our fans.

 

 

Completely agree.

 

Some of the cowardly bile aimed at Nick Illingsworth on his thread from people who have never met the bloke is a joke. The "I'm all right Jack" mentality is alive and kicking amongst Saints fans.

[Saint_clark]

It's simple, the club has been found wrong in it's treatment of a fellow fan.

What well they do, to put it right?

 

If they just ignore the ruling they are being disrespectful to all our fans.

 

It's not that simple though, is it? The club has been found in the wrong by an organisation who didn't have all the facts.

[The Cat]

Completely agree.

 

Some of the cowardly bile aimed at Nick Illingsworth on his thread from people who have never met the bloke is a joke. The "I'm all right Jack" mentality is alive and kicking amongst Saints fans.

 

+1

 

Nick helped me out in the past when I had issues with the club. He didn't have to, but saw that I had been treated badly as a fan and stepped in. He'd do the same for anyone, even those who seem to like to disrespect him when they don't even know him.

 

Does seem very bizarre that the club let him buy tickets for individual games but won't let him have a season ticket.

[trousers]

Does seem very bizarre that the club let him buy tickets for individual games but won't let him have a season ticket.

 

Indeed - it does look bizarre on the surface. Which is why I suspect there is a piece of information that the club has withheld (for whatever reason) that would help explain this apparent bizarreness. It's only bizarre because we don't both sides of the story.

 

It could of course still be a bizarre if we did know the facts....will we ever know?

[lenwilkins]

If the club had good reason not to sell Nick Illingsworth a Season Ticket don't you think they would have jumped at the chance to explain their position? I do.

 

The very fact that he is allowed to buy tickets on a match by match basis but not a Season Ticket speaks volumes to me. Had he done anything wrong he would have been banned from the ground completely. This smacks of pettiness and spite. If I was the club's new Marketing Manager I would be pulling my hair out at the thought of the way this little episode is tarnishing the image of the club as in any way fan friendly.

 

I totally agree with Patred and Um Pahar's posts above. Cortese has done great things for our club but in this instance he has got it badly wrong and it does not bode well for his attitude and treatment of individual fans imho.

[Saint_clark]

If the club had good reason not to sell Nick Illingsworth a Season Ticket don't you think they would have jumped at the chance to explain their position? I do.

 

 

You'd think they would jump at the chance to "out" the people working behind the scenes to discredit the club as well, but they didn't - in fact Cortese point blank refused to name them.

[capitalsaint]

it's sad that a saints fan has been refused a season ticket, but he can still come and watch the games so not as bad as it could have been.

 

 

i wonder if other fans meticulously dissect every aspect of their club in the way we do? it's sad how political this board (but maybe us fans in general- not that i'm suggesting this board is 'representative' of all saints fans, that doesn't seem to go down too well) has become. i'm sure there are some like nick who are genuinely very angry about this, but most of these posts want to spout some hatred about a subject that has little effect on them and, as far as i'm concerned, makes little difference to my life or my support of my team. to think that this puts a downer on our win is laughable.

[Ken Tone]

I think I speak for everybody on here when I say we're all sick of Nick Illingsworth making statements that he claims are representative of Saints fans.

 

Wonderful irony. I hope it was deliberate!

 

I've never met the bloke and have frequently been irritated by his public statements... even now quoted as 'saints expert fan' etc by radio solent .. but this is a serious independent body set up by the FA, FL etc and after an apparently thorough investigation it has found that the club was in the wrong. Read the report. Saints come out of it looking really bad, regardless of whether Illingsworth is or is not a prat

 

I hope Nicola now has the grace to accept this ruling and follow the recommendations.

[trousers]

You'd think they would jump at the chance to "out" the people working behind the scenes to discredit the club as well, but they didn't - in fact Cortese point blank refused to name them.

 

Indeed. Like it or not, Cortese has a blanket policy of keeping what goes on at the club inside the club. This IFO organisation (which I'd never heard of before) obviously don't have the power to demand evidence from 'the defence', otherwise Cortese would have had no choice but to comply at the time of their enquiries.

 

If this IFO organisation is going to be 100% effective (i.e. able to come up with judgements based on having all the facts disclosed to them) then it should be given the appropriate levels of authority within the football industry to achieve this.

 

It all sounds a tad half baked to me - an ombudsman with, ultimately, no powers. The words 'chocolate' and 'teapot' spring to mind....

[trousers]

If I was the club's new Marketing Manager I would be pulling my hair out at the thought of the way this little episode is tarnishing the image of the club as in any way fan friendly.

 

I doubt this story will have much public reach outside of this forum. I, for one, would be none the wiser if I hadn't come on here today.

Edited 2 February, 2011 by trousers

[SNOWY]

I agree with the IFO findings 100%. Time for the club to put this right.

[aintforever]

it's sad that a saints fan has been refused a season ticket, but he can still come and watch the games so not as bad as it could have been.

 

 

i wonder if other fans meticulously dissect every aspect of their club in the way we do? it's sad how political this board (but maybe us fans in general- not that i'm suggesting this board is 'representative' of all saints fans, that doesn't seem to go down too well) has become. i'm sure there are some like nick who are genuinely very angry about this, but most of these posts want to spout some hatred about a subject that has little effect on them and, as far as i'm concerned, makes little difference to my life or my support of my team. to think that this puts a downer on our win is laughable.

 

It's not a big deal and certainly hasn't put a downer on our win but that doesn't mean it should not be discussed.

 

I think how the club treats it's supporters effects all of us, if you are refused a ticket next time you go an not told why I expect you wouldn't be too happy.

[up and away]

I have known Nick for over 5 years and I can honestly say he has never claimed to represent Saints fans.

However others, namely the media, see him as such. This causes the 'jealousy' so apparent in some of his opponents posts.

Those of you expressing apathy at his situation, and indeed gloating, should be ashamed of yourselves, you are not true Saints fans in my eyes.

Here is a fellow Saints fan being treated unfairly by our club.

This same Saints fan has remained totally loyal to the club throughout this sad situation, he has not made any comment since the ruling.

Basically because he was where you'd expect the loyalists of fans to be, away supporting the Saints! He is at every game, as far as I am aware, despite not having his ST.

It's ironic, that had this happened to any other Saints fan.. Nick would be the first to back them.

In our dark days prior to being rescued by Marcus, Nick was at the front trying to raise funds to keep us going, goading all that would listen to fill the stadium, as were others. In my eyes he represents my ideal supporter, there in times of trouble and diversity, whatever the the weather or fortunes of our club.

You have to respect that kind of loyalty and dedication.

I only hope that Cortese has this loyalty towards us if things were to go wrong.

 

It's simple, the club has been found wrong in it's treatment of a fellow fan.

What well they do, to put it right?

 

If they just ignore the ruling they are being disrespectful to all our fans.

 

Whilst I agree with the praise for Nick, I would really like to see him get his season ticket back. For me the guy makes a lot of sense if he keeps away from his chaos inspired theories.

 

I forget the original events that led up to this but I do remember Nick trying to get an answer from Cortese over an issue. It then comes about that Nick was refunded his money and the season ticket withdrawn. The unofficial line that came back over the reason, was because Nick could not get an answer he emailed Liebherr direct. I would be interested to hear from Nick whether this is true or not, as that is the only thing stopping giving him my full backing.

[emerson massey]

It would be really useful if Mr Illingsworth himself would explain why he personally feels the club has implemented this policy. He of course is under no obligation to do so, and i respect the fact he has not been running to the press (well, the echo i mean), but now this is very obviously in the public domain it would be good to get the facts.

 

This is turning out to be a very devisive issue amongst fans on here, at a time when we really could do with pulling together as a club. With the facts (albeit from only one side) were known to all, then we could form an educated (hmm, relatively educated) opinion without relying on our preconceptions of NI or NC to make our minds up for us.

 

Until i see anything of the sort, from either side, it is all heresy in my eyes, so i think i will copy trousers and reserve judgement for now. And if neither side want to discuss it any further or release any details, then we will just have to move on ......

[Sour Mash]

I find it quite depressing that Saints fans are more than happy to just turn their back on a fellow supporter who has been treated this way having merely questioned the clubs actions that affect fans. If the club can not be questioned without the fear of sanction then there is something wrong.

 

My thoughts exactly. Sums up so many of our fans and so many of the people on here. I hope they never end up in a situation whereby the support and assistance of other fans would be of use. As long as they're alright, sod everyone else.

 

I have never heard of any club doing this before and there have been FAR worse campaigns against various club owners than anything NI may or may not have done "against" NC's regime.

[sandwichsaint]

It would be really useful if Mr Illingsworth himself would explain why he personally feels the club has implemented this policy. He of course is under no obligation to do so, and i respect the fact he has not been running to the press (well, the echo i mean), but now this is very obviously in the public domain it would be good to get the facts.

 

This is turning out to be a very devisive issue amongst fans on here, at a time when we really could do with pulling together as a club. With the facts (albeit from only one side) were known to all, then we could form an educated (hmm, relatively educated) opinion without relying on our preconceptions of NI or NC to make our minds up for us.

 

Until i see anything of the sort, from either side, it is all heresy in my eyes, so i think i will copy trousers and reserve judgement for now. And if neither side want to discuss it any further or release any details, then we will just have to move on ......

 

Don't think this is actually going to damage our season, I'm sure 99% of fans are happy to 'pull together'.

 

What more do we want either party to say? - It appears fairly obvious that NI was outside the tent ****ing in, to which the normal response is often to invite the ****er inside to **** out; in this instance NC pulled the flaps tighter and told the ****er to **** off and go and **** somewhere else.

 

Unusualy (for me) I can see both sides of the arguement; NI has done his time on the naughty step, let the club give him back his ST with 'lessons learned' on both sides.

 

The rebirth and revivasl of Saints is one of the best feelgood football stories of recent times, why do we keep getting the PR so hopelessly wrong?

[The9]

Personally I think the fact that Illingsworth has the nous and persistence to actually bother to take this further in the first place shows he's got the kind of qualities that most fans don't have, and which makes him eminently qualified for the kind of tedious and potentially litigious cack that running something like a Saints Trust can entail (though not necessarily that specific organisation). He sounds like exactly the sort of person who should be in charge of that kind of thankless thing.

 

When the Echo randomly (VERY randomly) rang ME up for a fan-style-rentaquote after Pardew's sacking I didn't bother to give them one.

 

None of this has much bearing on why he's been treated differently to the rest of us, but the people slagging Illingsworth off for his perceived media-hogging are really missing the point, which is that if the club can do it to him, they can also do it to you.

 

And they STILL haven't given a reason.

[Weston Saint]

It would be really useful if Mr Illingsworth himself would explain why he personally feels the club has implemented this policy. He of course is under no obligation to do so, and i respect the fact he has not been running to the press (well, the echo i mean), but now this is very obviously in the public domain it would be good to get the facts.

 

This is turning out to be a very devisive issue amongst fans on here, at a time when we really could do with pulling together as a club. With the facts (albeit from only one side) were known to all, then we could form an educated (hmm, relatively educated) opinion without relying on our preconceptions of NI or NC to make our minds up for us.

 

Until i see anything of the sort, from either side, it is all heresy in my eyes, so i think i will copy trousers and reserve judgement for now. And if neither side want to discuss it any further or release any details, then we will just have to move on ......

The judgement has only just come out (although Saints & Nick had a draught a few weeks ago.

 

Nick is waiting for a response from Saints and will remain silent on the subject until resolved or closed. Quite right too

[dune]

Personally I think the fact that Illingsworth has the nous and persistence to actually bother to take this further in the first place shows he's got the kind of qualities that most fans don't have, and which makes him eminently qualified for the kind of tedious and potentially litigious cack that running something like a Saints Trust can entail (though not necessarily that specific organisation). He sounds like exactly the sort of person who should be in charge of that kind of thankless thing.

 

When the Echo randomly (VERY randomly) rang ME up for a fan-style-rentaquote after Pardew's sacking I didn't bother to give them one.

 

None of this has much bearing on why he's been treated differently to the rest of us, but the people slagging Illingsworth off for his perceived media-hogging are really missing the point, which is that if the club can do it to him, they can also do it to you.

 

And they STILL haven't given a reason.

 

I have no issue with NI giving his personal opinion, but he has continually gone further by allowing the Echo to describe him as a chairman of a supporters group which implies that he is speaking for lots of people. I think that is wrong and he could have told the Echo to stop doing it.

[emerson massey]

Don't think this is actually going to damage our season, I'm sure 99% of fans are happy to 'pull together'.

 

What more do we want either party to say? - It appears fairly obvious that NI was outside the tent ****ing in, to which the normal response is often to invite the ****er inside to **** out; in this instance NC pulled the flaps tighter and told the ****er to **** off and go and **** somewhere else.

 

 

Really - i must have missed all the info that makes it appear fairly obvious what has happened, sorry......

 

Also, i dont think it will damage our season, never said anything of the sort - i did however say that it was a decisive issue, which i think is evident from this thread.

 

The judgement has only just come out (although Saints & Nick had a draught a few weeks ago.

 

Nick is waiting for a response from Saints and will remain silent on the subject until resolved or closed. Quite right too

 

If that is the case, fair enough, i agree. I may have missed something somewhere - who has made the judgement, and are they an official body? If so, are there any potential penalties/ramifications the could occur depending on the outcome? Do you know? Why do am i asking so many questions? Who knows?

[Weston Saint]

Whilst I agree with the praise for Nick, I would really like to see him get his season ticket back. For me the guy makes a lot of sense if he keeps away from his chaos inspired theories.

 

I forget the original events that led up to this but I do remember Nick trying to get an answer from Cortese over an issue. It then comes about that Nick was refunded his money and the season ticket withdrawn. The unofficial line that came back over the reason, was because Nick could not get an answer he emailed Liebherr direct. I would be interested to hear from Nick whether this is true or not, as that is the only thing stopping giving him my full backing.

Nick does not post on here but because you genuinely asked the question and becasue I think of you as a fair and sensible poster I emailed him a moment ago and his response is "I have never bypassed Cortese to go to Liebherr at any time on any matter"

[dubai_phil]

Well, respect again to Trousers for trying to be the balanced view.

 

Well put arguments from Wseton, UP & Patred.

 

I'd like to sayNick (as a fan) has been treated badly by the club, but I am also aware that (as I think Trousers pointed out) what we are seeing here is consistency from the club.

 

There have been a number of issues and occassion where they could have put forward their point of view more succinctly and possibly even got into "arguments" but it seems their policy is to make a decision and then shut up about it.

 

It IS very hard to criticise the club for showing a degree of consistency, especially after all we have been through, and many have put forward possible theories.

 

But until we see both sides (which IFO say has NOT happened) I think this will stay a sealed issue.

 

But, to venture an opinion. IF the club decided to STFU when asked by IFO then that would have been done in full awareness that the NEXT step could well be a court injunction or similar demand from the Authorities. I am willing to bet that they have taken Legal Counsel on this and know what they are doing.

 

Again, BECAUSE this is speculation, they COULD be protecting Nick's interests by NOT commenting, maybe they aren't.

 

But you know what? One thing is very very clear. Somehow, someway, Nick has upset the club. There is always a solution to that. It's one word and it starts with sorry.

 

If he doesn't know what he did then ....

 

Hmmm

 

I'll stay in my middle ground for now.

[Gemmel]

Well, respect again to Trousers for trying to be the balanced view.

 

Well put arguments from Wseton, UP & Patred.

 

I'd like to sayNick (as a fan) has been treated badly by the club, but I am also aware that (as I think Trousers pointed out) what we are seeing here is consistency from the club.

 

There have been a number of issues and occassion where they could have put forward their point of view more succinctly and possibly even got into "arguments" but it seems their policy is to make a decision and then shut up about it.

 

It IS very hard to criticise the club for showing a degree of consistency, especially after all we have been through, and many have put forward possible theories.

 

But until we see both sides (which IFO say has NOT happened) I think this will stay a sealed issue.

 

But, to venture an opinion. IF the club decided to STFU when asked by IFO then that would have been done in full awareness that the NEXT step could well be a court injunction or similar demand from the Authorities. I am willing to bet that they have taken Legal Counsel on this and know what they are doing.

 

Again, BECAUSE this is speculation, they COULD be protecting Nick's interests by NOT commenting, maybe they aren't.

 

But you know what? One thing is very very clear. Somehow, someway, Nick has upset the club. There is always a solution to that. It's one word and it starts with sorry.

 

If he doesn't know what he did then ....

 

Hmmm

 

I'll stay in my middle ground for now.

 

 

Am i going mad or am i missing something.

 

A life long season ticket holder has been refused a season ticket without an explanation. Having been given assurances he would get one, he still hasn't. The club are in breach of their own charter for that alone and have been reported.

 

Regardless of the reason why he was refused a season ticket, he has been treated terribly and the club is in breach and wrong

(And I hope this happens to you now) if you flew over and for a game and they refused to sell you a ticket, I'm sure you would want an answer - wouldnt you???

[aintforever]

So in short, it's OK for the club to refuse to sell you a ticket without giving any reason because you don't know what the reason is so it may be valid.

[teamsaint]

if some of the rich people and ex players who claim to love the club had shown as much loyalty to the club as Nick over the years, we might not have suffered the indignities of the last couple of years.

 

He is a true Saint.

[Crowds]

Outspoken gob****e, what a shame.... Lol

[Thedelldays]

If i owned a business and some cowboy trader used my business name to rip of hundreds of so called fellow loyal customers, I too would not allow him/her any perks

[The9]

I have no issue with NI giving his personal opinion, but he has continually gone further by allowing the Echo to describe him as a chairman of a supporters group which implies that he is speaking for lots of people. I think that is wrong and he could have told the Echo to stop doing it.

 

The whole point of asking him is that they're trying to hang some additional weight to his comments over those of the man in the street, so NOT calling him that undermines the credibility they're trying to build for the quote.

[trousers]

So in short, it's OK for the club to refuse to sell you a ticket without giving any reason because you don't know what the reason is so it may be valid.

 

Nobody is saying that it's (a) "ok" to not sell someone a ticket for no reason whatsoever (although, that's any retailer's prerogative) or (b) it's "ok" not to tell someone why they can't have a ticket.

 

All those of us sitting on the 'fence of judgement' are saying is that we'd rather have the full facts before making a judgement one way or the other.

 

As I've said several times, the anecdotal evidence suggests the club are being unreasonable and if that's the case it would be nice to see an apology. If, however, it transpires they did have a valid reason (in their eyes) then the debate can move on to whether people think their reason was understandable or not.

 

I don't know the full facts thus I won't make a judgement one way or the other (I'm an agnostic rather than an atheist for the same logical reasons)

 

I thought this thread was about showing solidarity for fellow saints fans rather than criticising them for reserving judgement? ;-)

[The9]

So in short, it's OK for the club to refuse to sell you a ticket without giving any reason because you don't know what the reason is so it may be valid.

 

Well no, in short, it's not OK, which is why the Ombudsman has said "it's not ok". Only people who want to assume the club has a valid reason but for some reason don't want to share it with the world are going to think otherwise.

 

They have added the Fans' charter back to the website though, so they're not ignoring the ruling altogether.

[croydonsaint]

I have known Nick for over 5 years and I can honestly say he has never claimed to represent Saints fans.

However others, namely the media, see him as such. This causes the 'jealousy' so apparent in some of his opponents posts.

Those of you expressing apathy at his situation, and indeed gloating, should be ashamed of yourselves, you are not true Saints fans in my eyes.

Here is a fellow Saints fan being treated unfairly by our club.

This same Saints fan has remained totally loyal to the club throughout this sad situation, he has not made any comment since the ruling.

Basically because he was where you'd expect the loyalists of fans to be, away supporting the Saints! He is at every game, as far as I am aware, despite not having his ST.

It's ironic, that had this happened to any other Saints fan.. Nick would be the first to back them.

In our dark days prior to being rescued by Marcus, Nick was at the front trying to raise funds to keep us going, goading all that would listen to fill the stadium, as were others. In my eyes he represents my ideal supporter, there in times of trouble and diversity, whatever the the weather or fortunes of our club.

You have to respect that kind of loyalty and dedication.

I only hope that Cortese has this loyalty towards us if things were to go wrong.

 

It's simple, the club has been found wrong in it's treatment of a fellow fan.

What well they do, to put it right?

 

If they just ignore the ruling they are being disrespectful to all our fans.

 

Well said patred.

[dubai_phil]

Am i going mad or am i missing something.

 

A life long season ticket holder has been refused a season ticket without an explanation. Having been given assurances he would get one, he still hasn't. The club are in breach of their own charter for that alone and have been reported.

 

Regardless of the reason why he was refused a season ticket, he has been treated terribly and the club is in breach and wrong

(And I hope this happens to you now) if you flew over and for a game and they refused to sell you a ticket, I'm sure you would want an answer - wouldnt you???

 

Nope you miss nothing.

 

I'm just not taking sides that is all.

 

Should a fan be able to buy an ST? - Yes

Should a club be able to have a reason NOT to sell it to a fan? - Yes

COULD there be reasons why the club made that decision? - Yes (IMHO)

Could there be a reason why the club chose NOt to talk to IFO? - Yes

 

Now, that LAST one could be because of i) pig headed stubbornness or ii) corporate poilcy or iii) the fan in question did something to annoy the club

 

Should Nick be given back his ticket? - I don't KNOW is my valid Opinion and won't be swayed by hearsay and Jolly nice chap comments.

 

He IS allowed to attend games, but not at a "discounted bulk price"

 

So again, as I said earlier, because we DON'T KNOW. Could it have been that he was one who did not actually fulfill his installment obligations? Could it have been because the club thought he was benefitting commercially from selling "Un-Authorised" Merchandise? Could it have been that he insulted someone?

 

WE DON'T KNOW.

 

When we find out I'll be happy to have an opinion on either side of the argument

[COMEONYOUREDS]

If i owned a business and some cowboy trader used my business name to rip of hundreds of so called fellow loyal customers, I too would not allow him/her any perks

 

This TDD.

I posted something similar earlier which was totally ignored. NI took the **** with that silverspoons nonsense and those awful t shirts. Not condoning the clubs actions without all the facts but 1 thing that is fact is that silverspoons was a rip off and was organised by nick using the clubs name/logo.

[Smirking_Saint]

Yet another section of the football world NC has ****ed off.

 

I wouldn't say i am exactly a section of the football world but thanks for the sentiments

[Gemmel]

When we find out I'll be happy to have an opinion on either side of the argument

 

We won't find out, that is the clubs stance on the matter and why we are in breach of our own charter. Now we will wait to see the penalties.

Dress that up any way you want, but it is unprofessional.

 

I don't care if the answer is " We didnt like the font in which you published your last article". As a season ticket holder he is entitled to be told at the very least.

 

What if you wrote something on here that the club took offence to, refused to sell you a ticket and refused to tell you why.... please answer that question.

 

The apathy shown to a life long fan on here is incredible

[aintforever]

Nobody is saying that it's (a) "ok" to not sell someone a ticket for no reason whatsoever (although, that's any retailer's prerogative) or (b) it's "ok" not to tell someone why they can't have a ticket.

 

All those of us sitting on the 'fence of judgement' are saying is that we'd rather have the full facts before making a judgement one way or the other.

 

As I've said several times, the anecdotal evidence suggests the club are being unreasonable and if that's the case it would be nice to see an apology. If, however, it transpires they did have a valid reason (in their eyes) then the debate can move on to whether people think their reason was understandable or not.

 

I don't know the full facts thus I won't make a judgement one way or the other (I'm an agnostic rather than an atheist for the same logical reasons)

 

I thought this thread was about showing solidarity for fellow saints fans rather than criticising them for reserving judgement? ;-)

 

I think if you had been refused a ticket and not told why you would be annoyed.

 

Anyway, wether it was for something he said (he was scathing about the ST thing) or something he did (Tshirts, Wembley thing etc) I still don't see how it is in SFC's interest to not take his money.

[trousers]

[The9]

Nope you miss nothing.

 

I'm just not taking sides that is all.

 

Should a fan be able to buy an ST? - Yes

Should a club be able to have a reason NOT to sell it to a fan? - Yes

COULD there be reasons why the club made that decision? - Yes (IMHO)

Could there be a reason why the club chose NOt to talk to IFO? - Yes

 

Now, that LAST one could be because of i) pig headed stubbornness or ii) corporate poilcy or iii) the fan in question did something to annoy the club

 

Should Nick be given back his ticket? - I don't KNOW is my valid Opinion and won't be swayed by hearsay and Jolly nice chap comments.

 

He IS allowed to attend games, but not at a "discounted bulk price"

 

So again, as I said earlier, because we DON'T KNOW. Could it have been that he was one who did not actually fulfill his installment obligations? Could it have been because the club thought he was benefitting commercially from selling "Un-Authorised" Merchandise? Could it have been that he insulted someone?

 

WE DON'T KNOW.

 

When we find out I'll be happy to have an opinion on either side of the argument

 

But the points here are that 1) The Ombudsman role exists in order to make clubs accountable in this way (and has failed because the club has basically decided its above the process) and 2) What possible LEGITIMATE reason could the club have that they're not prepared to share ?

[trousers]

I think if you had been refused a ticket and not told why you would be annoyed.

 

Yes, I've already agreed with that part....

[capitalsaint]

It's not a big deal and certainly hasn't put a downer on our win but that doesn't mean it should not be discussed.

 

I think how the club treats it's supporters effects all of us, if you are refused a ticket next time you go an not told why I expect you wouldn't be too happy.

 

true, i wouldn't be too happy, but i don't run a supporter trust and appear in the media to discuss saints related things. he is a fan, but he has extra responsibilities that us average fans don't.

[The9]

I think if you had been refused a ticket and not told why you would be annoyed.

 

Anyway, whether it was for something he said (he was scathing about the ST thing) or something he did (T-shirts, Wembley thing etc) I still don't see how it is in SFC's interest to not take his money.

 

I think part of the reason for trousers' head-banging there may have been that the club is clearly more than happy to take his money on a game by game basis, as stated numerous times in this thread and the judgement.

[Smirking_Saint]

I find it quite depressing that Saints fans are more than happy to just turn their back on a fellow supporter who has been treated this way having merely questioned the clubs actions that affect fans. If the club can not be questioned without the fear of sanction then there is something wrong.

 

I agree with this.

 

I said before when this came up a long time ago and NC got a bashing that I didn't want to comment as i didn't know all the details. I still don't however the fact that an independent ombudsman has found in NI's favour it makes me a little concerned that the club has acted very wrongly in the way that it has. Not necerssarily that it has REFUSED the ST but the fact that it has given no word of why, that is the worst part of all. Cortese has been barracked before for the iron curtain that surrounds the club these days and issues such as this do not help him. I am a massive massive NC fan, but as Chez said the club should not be above criticism.

 

Its a hard case though, for as much as the club has remained quiet as has NI (for once). I don't like the bloke, nor do i agree with the Saints Trust however it appears he has been treated unfairly and IS a saints fan after all. Both sides frank silence however makes me wonder what has gone on though, NI obviously has an idea of what has happened, but is equally shy in coming forward.