trousers Posted 5 February, 2011 Posted 5 February, 2011 This thread is now officially as large as the Exeter match thread and Exeter post match thread combined. Just saying. But the server hasn't blown up on this one. Every cloud.... :-)
CanadaSaint Posted 5 February, 2011 Posted 5 February, 2011 But the server hasn't blown up on this one. Every cloud.... :-) I hope that's not like Merrington's "What Saints don't want to do now is concede a goal".
chrisobee Posted 14 February, 2011 Posted 14 February, 2011 well said Steve, i really don't get this anti NI attitude that many have, i think its just some kind of jealousy, I've met him many times but can't say i actually know him, in my opinion, he is 100% saints and has the fans view in general at heart, and is prepared to speak out and do something whilst others just sit back & moan Indeed. I knew Nick way back when he was in his teens/early 20's. A decent lad who cares passionately about Saints and as a result of his involvement with SISA etc; gets asked often to do interviews. That's it, no big deal, no ego trip, just get over it and realise nobody is perfect.
Alain Perrin Posted 14 February, 2011 Posted 14 February, 2011 If Lowe had made ANY of those decisions he would have got a right kicking on here. In fairness if Lowe had brought in Torres on a free some on hear would 'not step foot in the club until he's gone'. Like any decision maker, Cortese (and Lowe) made decisions. Sometimes you agree and can understand, other times you disagree (either because you understand or haven't go a ****ing clue!). Either way, they are the ones that have to make the decisions and have to stand by the consequences of them. Sensible folk recognise that not all of those decisions will work out.
Alain Perrin Posted 14 February, 2011 Posted 14 February, 2011 hear here hear. I'm lying in a pool of my own pedantry.
SaintBobby Posted 14 February, 2011 Posted 14 February, 2011 Can Nick Illingsworth just do a full blown mea culpa...via Saints Trust or something? For his own sake? Otherwise, he will be the "representative fan" until (a) his actual credibility with the fanbase falls to such miserable levels that not even the Echo feel able to quote him or (b) he has a moment of self-realisation. Never (a) nor (b) are immimnet, it seems. This thread is now longer than the Exeter one, but even more boring. Its basically half-full of "who cares, hes a ***t?" comments. For a sizeable section of the fanbase to voice these sort of views must surely be deeply humiliating for Nick Illingsworth. The head of a fans trust should be a moral leader. The sort of guy who is instinctively backed by 99% of fans and will get a good section of fans to fight to the death for him. I wonder how many letters SFC has received from outraged fans about the treatment of Illingsworth...two? six? maybe ten? That's not to say Cortese and the club have behaved well. Its just to highlight how NI is just a media rentaquote and utterly marginalised in the power politics of SFC, rather than an effective lobbyist for fans. Even in happy times, there would be an outrage at most football clubs about an "uber-fan" being treated this way. Incredibly, Illingsworth has managed to maneouvre himself into a position whereby he is the highest profile Saints fan, gets quite badly treated by the club and most Saints fans reaction (in so far as they can even be bothered to have one) is to shrug their shoulder and say "good, the man's an arseh0le!" It takes a very special type of incompetence -possibly mixed with a sprinkling of narcissism - to get yourself into that sort of situation. Thats just the way it is. I'm not sure Illingsworth gets it at all. Quite sad really.
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 And his lack of side burns is unnerving.
hypochondriac Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Basically nick comes like a **** but should have a ticket
Saint_clark Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Basically nick comes like a **** but should have a ticket Didn't know you and him were so close.
hypochondriac Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Didn't know you and him were so close. Not close spoke two times he should get his Ticket
hypochondriac Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Night Clark. Least you aren't like some who infract then talk after. Bajer being one
cadiz saint Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Excuse my ignorance but who's this nick illingsworth?
dubai_phil Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Excuse my ignorance but who's this nick illingsworth? Oh good grief Cue another 14 pages
Viking Warrior Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Oh he's a fine positive loyal saints fan who will not have a bad word said about saints he is wrongly being persecuted by not being allowed a season ticket An he is the true voice of the spirit of southampton fans alliance Hope this answers your question Cadz PS can we lock this thread
dune Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Excuse my ignorance but who's this nick illingsworth? He is the chairman of the Saints Trust which is a fans group with no members.
Guan 2.0 Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Basically nick comes like a **** but should have a ticket http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv4N5g2GYMA
trousers Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Excuse my ignorance but who's this nick illingsworth? http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/fb_news.php?storyid=7796
dune Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Basically nick comes like a **** but should have a ticket If i'm honest (and i don't like the Nick I think I know based on his actions of calling himself Chairman of the ST because when it comes to poltics and democracy there can be no grey area or you enter the arena of banana republics) i would like to reverse my previous stance. It was based far too much on the above (which remains fully reasonable stance - no apology for that). Nick for his faults does try to organise things to help others, he does go to loads of games, and from what people i respect have said HE IS A NICE GUY. Therefore he does deserve a ST and I now think less of Cortese.
dubai_phil Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 I'd like to thank the many who have passed by this thread and added their valid opinions to it. I have now decided to focus my Inter est elsewhere and I await the emergence of the next great non-debate about what are actually important points and concepts about our Direction and attitude. I look forward to one day having something we can debate with all the facts
Dimond Geezer Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv4N5g2GYMA Brilliant :adore:
derry Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Indeed. I knew Nick way back when he was in his teens/early 20's. A decent lad who cares passionately about Saints and as a result of his involvement with SISA etc; gets asked often to do interviews. That's it, no big deal, no ego trip, just get over it and realise nobody is perfect. I know Nick socially and he is a decent person that lives for the Saints, can't meet up next week as he is in Hartlepool with another 1000 real supporters. As for most of us it's far too much trouble to do a 500 mile round trip and get back in the early hours but Nick does it all the time.
Secret Site Agent Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 If i'm honest (and i don't like the Nick I think I know based on his actions of calling himself Chairman of the ST because when it comes to poltics and democracy there can be no grey area or you enter the arena of banana republics) i would like to reverse my previous stance. It was based far too much on the above (which remains fully reasonable stance - no apology for that). Nick for his faults does try to organise things to help others, he does go to loads of games, and from what people i respect have said HE IS A NICE GUY. Therefore he does deserve a ST and I now think less of Cortese. Well, nice guy ir not, he has been treated very shabilly by the club. And I do sympathise with him. That said I do recall that when he realised the problem, he call up Andy Oldknow (i think) to find out what was going on, rather than through the Ticket office. I must be honest that when people ring me directly, instead of the first response line I do react differently, especially any of the following: - Councillors - Community Wardens - Police Community Support Officers - Anyone who is either president, secretary or chair of a 'body' - Anyone from an 'action team' - Highway Agency Traffic officers These people are usually politely interupted during their practiced speech by me to enquire why they have not contacted the published communication line, and then their issue goes to the bottom of my pile, basically for thinking they are more important than the normal members of the public. Those that DO go through the correct procedure, (including those above) either have their issue attended to there and then, if possible, or closed out within a week. So if it is the club being spiteful in this regard, I do have some sympathy in that department also.
jam Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 I know Nick socially and he is a decent person that lives for the Saints, can't meet up next week as he is in Hartlepool with another 1000 real supporters. As for most of us it's far too much trouble to do a 500 mile round trip and get back in the early hours but Nick does it all the time. And I'm sure he hates every moment.
georgeweahscousin Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I can't believe people are still going on about the "installment fiasco". What fiasco? People didn't pay. No way of policing it. System removed. System will be brought back when it can be policed. Simple. This the fault of people who defaulted on their payments, not the chairman of a business trying to protect it's interests! NC made a mistake with the photography ban, that one is a given. He should give Mr. Illingsworth(despite my personal opinion of him) an explanation about why he refused him a ST, but still reserves the right to refuse him one with good reason. The legends issue is down to individuals not ex-Saints players as a collective. Some people look for problems where there aren't any.
NickG Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I still wonder if both parties know exactly what this is about. I take it the club haven't acted on this IFO and don't care about their opinion? I wonder if any of us, including the club, knew about the IFO before this!
Weston Saint Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Mr Cortese gets upset very easily on anything SFC. Nick went public over his concerns that the club had changed their season ticket policy at short notice and his punishment was withdrawal of that facility for him. Cortese and the club will not go public. It was an impulsive act on the clubs behalf and it looks like they will not back down, at least not this season.
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Actually, unless the IFO document is a total hoax, I'm pretty apalled by this. I'm no fan of Nick Illingsworth. I don't know the man personally at all. I have only not taken legal action against him for the JPT rip-off because my lawyer has found it neraly impossible to identify the legal party who "organised" the event. I don't have any reason to believe that he is representative of Saints fans. I know quite a lot of Saints fans and none of them know Illingsworth. The broad brush view on here is that he doesn't really represent anyone. But that's really a complaint against SKY, The Echo etc for claiming that he does. Not against him as such. But the club has some explaining to do here. Either this man is such a threat to national security that SFC can only discuss the matter with MI5 etc or they have acted in a petty and vindicative fashion. There are plenty of petty and vindicative people in football. No surprise there. I'm just a tad worried that SFC have clearly gone to some considerable length to act in a petty and vindicative way and then not even apologise. If you're going to do dictatorial loony behaviour, do it properly. Ban him from SMS altogether. But what sort of totally warped bureaucrat thinks "no....don't ban him from the ground...let him buy tickets as and when he pleases...let him come to any game he wants....just don't let him have the satisfaction of owning a season ticket" The only conclusion I can draw is that one or more people on the payroll of the club went through exactly this thought process. I find that creepy, weird and unacceptable. I don't think a response of "So what? It's Illingsworth!" is a fair one. Nick Illingsworth shoudl lodge a subject access request with the club under s8 of the Data Protection Act of 1998 to find out what happened. This isn't going to knock the meltdown in Eygpt off thefront pages. But that's not the basis for deciding what's right and wrong. I agree. This is Eastern Bloc dictatorship stuff.
um pahars Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I still wonder if both parties know exactly what this is about. I'd imagine that as the Club took the action then they would know what this is about. However, I understand that NI still has not had any confirmation as to why his right to buy a season ticket was withdrawn. I take it the club haven't acted on this IFO and don't care about their opinion? As far as I'm aware they haven't acted on this report. I would be very disappointed if they didn't care about the opinion of Football's independent ombudsman who was appointed with the backing of the three main footballing bodies and the Government. I wonder if any of us, including the club, knew about the IFO before this! You have to assume the Club are aware of this (I certainly did) as it is an integral part of the game and membership of the League.
The9 Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I can't believe people are still going on about the "installment fiasco". What fiasco? People didn't pay. No way of policing it. System removed. System will be brought back when it can be policed. Simple. This the fault of people who defaulted on their payments, not the chairman of a business trying to protect it's interests! . Try not oversimplifying... this "didn't work, not offered" cobblers completely ignores every season at St Mary's OTHER than the admin summer, when there had always been both a finance method AND an early renewal which allowed the club to gather the money in full before sending out the tickets. No-one is suggesting that the clearly abused DD option - which, for the hundredth time, was only put in place due to the takeover completion coming so near to the start of the season - should be offered again. But the club hadn't, didn't last summer, and STILL hasn't, provided any alternatives to allow people to pay more conveniently - and doesn't offer one in the 10/11 fans' charter either (not that anyone expects it to apply to 2011/12 after the way the 2009/10 Charter's ST promises suddenly disappeared in summer 2010.
The9 Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I'd imagine that as the Club took the action then they would know what this is about. However, I understand that NI still has not had any confirmation as to why his right to buy a season ticket was withdrawn. As far as I'm aware they haven't acted on this report. I would be very disappointed if they didn't care about the opinion of Football's independent ombudsman who was appointed with the backing of the three main footballing bodies and the Government. You have to assume the Club are aware of this (I certainly did) as it is an integral part of the game and membership of the League. They have acted on the IFO, they added the 2010/11 Fans' Charter a couple of days after the report was published as a result of the IFO noting there was no Charter on the website, against FL guidelines. So either that was a massive coincidence, or their inaction on the other matters is deliberate.
MarkSFC Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I think this is all about ego and political or business principles. Neither party (Illingsworth/Cortese/Club) come out of this with any credit really. Until both parties publically state their side of events we won't know, and until one or both compromises their stance/principle on this it won't get solved amicabally. If compromise was likely I think it would have occured by now so as it appears not too of, forget it. Pathetic situation. Everyone should just move on, hardly important in the whole scheme of things.
NickG Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 think Cortese has spent less time thinking about this issue than we have posting on here! he is probably at the "Illingsworth...who?" stage by now!
solentstars Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I can't believe people are still going on about the "installment fiasco". What fiasco? People didn't pay. No way of policing it. System removed. System will be brought back when it can be policed. Simple. This the fault of people who defaulted on their payments, not the chairman of a business trying to protect it's interests! NC made a mistake with the photography ban, that one is a given. He should give Mr. Illingsworth(despite my personal opinion of him) an explanation about why he refused him a ST, but still reserves the right to refuse him one with good reason. The legends issue is down to individuals not ex-Saints players as a collective. Some people look for problems where there aren't any. Mr Cortese gets upset very easily on anything SFC. Nick went public over his concerns that the club had changed their season ticket policy at short notice and his punishment was withdrawal of that facility for him. Cortese and the club will not go public. It was an impulsive act on the clubs behalf and it looks like they will not back down, at least not this season. i agree and that impulsiveness on the clubs part is what upset alot of our fanbase at the time and its about time cortese gave nick his season ticket back now and apologise.
Junction 9 Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 think Cortese has spent less time thinking about this issue than we have posting on here! he is probably at the "Illingsworth...who?" stage by now! The exact same stage as I'm at.
um pahars Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 i agree and that impulsiveness on the clubs part is what upset alot of our fanbase at the time and its about time cortese gave nick his season ticket back now and apologise. Indeed. The Club would be well advised to follow the IFO's ruling and apologise to NI and reinstate him as a season ticket holder immediately or at least at the start of next season. I would be very disappointed if the Club decides to go against an independent ruling given out by an Ombudsman appointed by the Footballing authorities (& Government).
Window Cleaner Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Indeed. The Club would be well advised to follow the IFO's ruling and apologise to NI and reinstate him as a season ticket holder immediately or at least at the start of next season. I would be very disappointed if the Club decides to go against an independent ruling given out by an Ombudsman appointed by the Footballing authorities (& Government). In fact if Nick I has been to every home game and paid £20 (or whatever) each time the club would have to give him his ST for the rest of this season for free.Doubt if they'll do that though.
Thedelldays Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 i agree and that impulsiveness on the clubs part is what upset alot of our fanbase at the time and its about time cortese gave nick his season ticket back now and apologise. lol
Gemmel Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Cortese was made to look stupid over the photograher ban and looks like stupid over this, not least for breaking his own charter by his actions (Or lack of them) It won't be such a public climb down as a 3 hour visit to news corp, but he won't risk the IPO and or footballing bodies and bad publicity (I think he has worked out he cant control the press) and won't actively stop him getting a season ticket next season.
Thedelldays Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Cortese was made to look stupid over the photograher ban and looks like stupid over this, not least for breaking his own charter by his actions (Or lack of them) It won't be such a public climb down as a 3 hour visit to news corp, but he won't risk the IPO and or footballing bodies and bad publicity (I think he has worked out he cant control the press) and won't actively stop him getting a season ticket next season. really...by who...? a few internet fans..? when I do go to games...and get chatting to people around me before, during the game etc..we pretty much cover all things SFC.. cortese and people like illingsworth have never been mentioned... many friends at home are ST holders and they could not care less about cortese and have no idea who Nick I is.... dont go making out cortese has looked stupid and I GUESS so many just dont care or are totally unaware of anything to do with illingworth and the whys and wherefors of the board room/internet battles
Window Cleaner Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I think this is all about ego and political or business principles. Neither party (Illingsworth/Cortese/Club) come out of this with any credit really. Until both parties publically state their side of events we won't know, and until one or both compromises their stance/principle on this it won't get solved amicabally. If compromise was likely I think it would have occured by now so as it appears not too of, forget it. Pathetic situation. Everyone should just move on, hardly important in the whole scheme of things. It would be quite interesting to know though if those who defaulted on staged payments for STs last season were allowed to renew them this season and under what terms.I mean if you were a St holder last season but defaulted on payments does that make this season's a renewal or a new purchase. Wouldn't be good if those people got better treatment than Nick.
John B Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 I think this is all about ego and political or business principles. Neither party (Illingsworth/Cortese/Club) come out of this with any credit really. Until both parties publically state their side of events we won't know, and until one or both compromises their stance/principle on this it won't get solved amicabally. If compromise was likely I think it would have occured by now so as it appears not too of, forget it. Pathetic situation. Everyone should just move on, hardly important in the whole scheme of things. I dont really see what Nick I has done wrong It was quite obvious the club was in the wrong in the first place which has now been agreed by an independent organisation I think that Mr cortese may not understand that most people he has found fault with want the club to succeed and fans to be treated fairly I certainly want that myself
Gemmel Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 really...by who...? a few internet fans..? when I do go to games...and get chatting to people around me before, during the game etc..we pretty much cover all things SFC.. cortese and people like illingsworth have never been mentioned... many friends at home are ST holders and they could not care less about cortese and have no idea who Nick I is.... dont go making out cortese has looked stupid and I GUESS so many just dont care or are totally unaware of anything to do with illingworth and the whys and wherefors of the board room/internet battles By who is that a serious question? The National press, who to a man condemened his actions. Doesn't matter what you think of the actual paper, but Southcoast team ring any bells? It took a few hours of what must have been painful sucking up to redeem his "Brand". I think we can safely say the whole thing was a bit silly and he had to backdown, back track and smuuzzzzeee to rectify his mistake. With regard to this season ticket lark, if you write a charter one minute and then break it the very next, whilst at the same time alert the authorites to other failings of the same charter, I think silly / stupid is an apt word to use and that's without even going into the merits of whether a season ticket ban was appropriate or not. Sorry dd, Cortestw has done some brilliant things in his short time here and is without doubt the man to take us forward. All we need him to do now is recoginse (As i am sure he does) the silly things he has done, cut them out and it's onwards and upwards.
Thedelldays Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 national press... you mean the few lines it got in a couple of articles....go on a man u, chelsea, blackpool, wigan forums and see if they have any idea what so ever what you are onl about
Gemmel Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 national press... you mean the few lines it got in a couple of articles....go on a man u, chelsea, blackpool, wigan forums and see if they have any idea what so ever what you are onl about Yes the few lines it got in a few articles and the biggest selling paper in the Country refusing to acknowledge our existence until he backed down, which he did, ergo stupid decision in the first place. You didn't comment on whether he was silly to break his own charter.... how strange.
Thedelldays Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Yes the few lines it got in a few articles and the biggest selling paper in the Country refusing to acknowledge our existence until he backed down, which he did, ergo stupid decision in the first place. You didn't comment on whether he was silly to break his own charter.... how strange. seriously, it was a nothing story outside of southampton......
Secret Site Agent Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Knock Knock Who's there? Nick Illingsworth Nick Illingsworth Who? Right, i'm going to complain to the IFO about you.
Gemmel Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 seriously, it was a nothing story outside of southampton...... How big a story it was is almost irrelevant, but Google is offerring 9 pages of search results against it (Gave up looking past the first 3 to make sure they were relevant) - so it was a story and that's without The Sun. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Southampton+Photographer+Ban&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= But anyway, still stupid (And expensive) fortuneately rectified, by some humble pie. Suggesting that it wasn't a silly idea, is well just silly. Still no comment on whether it was silly to write a Club charter one week and then break it the next and at the same time highlight to the authorities other failings of the same charter, that could amount to fines etc. From a CEO perspective thats unprofessional and silly. I really dont think there is an argument to the contray and that is before you even look at whether the ban was justfied. It's not rocket science, on the two issues i have raised we can deal in facts and both decisions were / are stupid. There are some that won't hear a word against cortese and that makes them as blind as those who they argue against. As i mentioned previously he has done some great things since he has been here and he is the way forward - i am sure of that, but the two points in question have done the one thing he protects against all others and that is damagaing "The Brand". So two own goals, that both can be classed as "Silly"
JRM Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 How big a story it was is almost irrelevant, but Google is offerring 9 pages of search results against it (Gave up looking past the first 3 to make sure they were relevant) - so it was a story and that's without The Sun. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Southampton+Photographer+Ban&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= But anyway, still stupid (And expensive) fortuneately rectified, by some humble pie. Suggesting that it wasn't a silly idea, is well just silly. Still no comment on whether it was silly to write a Club charter one week and then break it the next and at the same time highlight to the authorities other failings of the same charter, that could amount to fines etc. From a CEO perspective thats unprofessional and silly. I really dont think there is an argument to the contray and that is before you even look at whether the ban was justfied. It's not rocket science, on the two issues i have raised we can deal in facts and both decisions were / are stupid. There are some that won't hear a word against cortese and that makes them as blind as those who they argue against. As i mentioned previously he has done some great things since he has been here and he is the way forward - i am sure of that, but the two points in question have done the one thing he protects against all others and that is damagaing "The Brand". So two own goals, that both can be classed as "Silly" good post. and i thnk you can add to that banning the echo for reporting about the new training ground. petty, vindictive decision making.
NickG Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Bottom line for fans judging ceo is how we are doing on the pitch. These issues are very minor in the bigger picture. Although big issue for NI. Team is doing well, crowds are good, CEO and fans are happy.
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