The refusal to sell a season ticket at Southampton FC

[Chez]

Nick didn't give his disgruntled customers an explanation, therefore he's now experiencing what it feels like and moaning like **** about it.

 

didn't think he had moaned at all. I wouldn't doubt that the Echo had grabbed the story from here.

[dune]

didn't think he had moaned at all. I wouldn't doubt that the Echo had grabbed the story from here.

 

Possibly, but I doubt it.

[NickG]

Ok, ok....I know....it's Wikipedia....but.....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence

Right to silence

 

The right to remain silent is a legal right of any person. This right is recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems.

 

The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned.

 

The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole.

 

that;s not up to date, an inference can be drawn - however can only support other substantive evidence not stand alone

[NickG]

Well actually the IFO report states,

 

"The complainant ...... has never had a substantive reply from Southampton FC."

Wouldn't have thought they would put that there if he has received a reply.

"The Club had by no means explained its actions even to the Football League"

So the league never got an explanation either.

"Despite this reassurance that “Chatham House rules” would apply, the officials could not explain to the IFO’s satisfaction why the Club had taken the action"

Neither did the IFO get a direct answer either.

Furthermore,

"The IFO enquired why no reason had been given to the complainant and suggested that, even at this late date, a letter could be sent to the complainant stating in general terms why the Club, possibly temporarily, had chosen not to extend to the complainant the privileges associated with season ticket ownership. This would at least address one part of the complaint, that no communication had been sent to the complainant explaining why he was subject to the season ticket restriction. Club officials agreed to consider this option. "

Which clears up that the Club have yet to communicate to NI (or anyone else) their reasons for doing so.

 

 

Your point has been raised by a few people now, and all I can suggest is that people read the full report as the report negates some of the suggestions that are being put forward on this thread.

 

maybe they thought it was petty and couldn't be arsed

[dubai_phil]

Weather down here has been really weird of late. Lots of weird short lived storms blowing up, heavy rains mini Hurricanes and even some Tornadoes.

 

They've all blown over and it will be sunny all week.

 

Life is good, Tiger's coming to town for some relationship counselling. Thinking of taking him to the Seaview.

 

Enough said. Same for this thread

[NickG]

Weather down here has been really weird of late. Lots of weird short lived storms blowing up, heavy rains mini Hurricanes and even some Tornadoes.

 

They've all blown over and it will be sunny all week.

 

Life is good, Tiger's coming to town for some relationship counselling. Thinking of taking him to the Seaview.

 

Enough said. Same for this thread

 

you had to keep it going and have the last word didn't you!

[dubai_phil]

you had to keep it going and have the last word didn't you!

 

Oh no, I think it will be the first one

[Sour Mash]

See, that's what I don't get about many posters on here. You are sure it's 'petty', but you haven't a clue really, you're just name calling in the playground, to look like billy bigboll1cks. The time to slate the chairman, is if and when the reason is made public, and it is indeed petty, bet a dollar, you wouldn't apoligise for your massive over reaction!

 

ps...I never said the club was wrong, it's how you have interpreted it!

 

I believe it to be a petty one for a number of reasons. If it was anything remotely serious he would be banned from St Marys that is a fact. Instead NC is just saying to NI "remember who is boss around here". Its petty and pointless and reflects badly on NC.

 

Don't you get it - the club refused to give a reason for refusing NI a season ticket to the IFO even though they were GUARANTEED it would be kept confidential - are you honestly telling me that does not ring ANY alarm bells for you? Absolutely bizarre!

[Sour Mash]

Okay fair do's.

 

Because Cortese should not be mentioned here as it clearly say's in this IFO report it was dealt with by the head of retail. So for all we know he might not have had anything to do with it.

 

I will however ask one question that a fellow Saints supporter who has been a ticket holder as long as i have asked me today.

 

If you are a huge Saints fan. Had been to see them through the bad and good times. Spent hundreds of pounds a year on travelling to see them. Obviously a big fan. And you for whatever reason ****ed them off and they declined you a season ticket what would you do?

Would you A, accept it and not watch Saints for the season? B, Get someone else to buy the ticket for you? or C, Go public about the treatment and seek media exposure of your Victimisation? I.e on forums, paper, compalints groups and so on.

 

Now be honest here. The likely hood of most fans, or most normal people is to be ****ed off that you can't watch the games! Your find a way! So i bet the vast majority of fans would choose B and simply get someone else to buy the ticket. Get your mrs to buy it. Fook morales and politics i just want to watch the games!

 

But you just know that if this happened to Nick he would not do that. It isn't his "style" shall we say?

 

We all know at the very least he deserves an explanation. But is your love for Saints a political thing or an emotional thing? For me i will climb over the walls to watch if i have to!

 

Point being rather then be quiet about it and just watch the games by getting around it i.e get your mrs to buy it and gift it to you he couldn't do that. Has to go the morale path. And you have to say that his chances of ever watching Saints again are made smaller everytime something like this is put in the media. At the end of the day the club legally don't have to give you a reason why. Which sucks but that is the law.

 

Yes, you're right mate. Best not to make any noise. Or make a stand as a matter of principle. Just take the punishment and shut the hell up. What's that? You don't know why the decision was made? How dare you make an effort to find out? Clearly an attention seeker!

[dune]

I believe it to be a petty one for a number of reasons. If it was anything remotely serious he would be banned from St Marys that is a fact. Instead NC is just saying to NI "remember who is boss around here". Its petty and pointless and reflects badly on NC.

 

Don't you get it - the club refused to give a reason for refusing NI a season ticket to the IFO even though they were GUARANTEED it would be kept confidential - are you honestly telling me that does not ring ANY alarm bells for you? Absolutely bizarre!

 

It's not a good situation i'll grant you that, but put yourself in Cotese's position and having a fan airing his peronal views about this that and the other in the guise of a fans leader and you'd be pretty narked about it. It's the same as Richard Chorley giving a sermon as leader of SISA. I just don't get what people like NI and RC get out of doing it. It's pathetic.

[um pahars]

maybe they thought it was petty and couldn't be arsed

 

It obviously wasn't that petty that they decided to revoke someones season ticket. I would have thought for them to take those actions they would have thought it to be more than petty.

 

Plus from the individuals perspective it is somewhat more than petty.

[St Marco]

Yes, you're right mate. Best not to make any noise. Or make a stand as a matter of principle. Just take the punishment and shut the hell up. What's that? You don't know why the decision was made? How dare you make an effort to find out? Clearly an attention seeker!

 

A stand against what? The right to get a discount for stuff? Or the right to get an explanation everytime we don't get what we want?

 

I would say not being able to go to the games would be a punishment. Not getting a discount is that a punishment?

 

Think you been reading too much Daily Mail

[um pahars]

A stand against what? The right to get a discount for stuff?

 

Although money's obviously an issue, I think buying a season ticket is much more than that.

 

After all, why have 13,000 people signed up for one if it's not that much of a big deal?

 

Or the right to get an explanation everytime we don't get what we want?

 

I think that's slightly OTT, to an individual who has been supproting the Club for so long I think he is due an explanation (after all, the IFO seem to agree with this line of thinking).

[St Marco]

Although money's obviously an issue, I think buying a season ticket is much more than that.

 

After all, why have 13,000 people signed up for one if it's not that much of a big deal?

 

I think that's slightly OTT, to an individual who has been supproting the Club for so long I think he is due an explanation (after all, the IFO seem to agree with this line of thinking).

 

As i said time and time again he is owed at least an explanation.

 

But it isn't the end of the world. If you owned a company and someone took shots at it via the press then basically asked you to give them one of your products at a discount would you do it?

Then after you said no they then told your fanbase and the media about your decision? I don't think many people would.

That isn't to say that is the reason. Just saying that if it turns out the explanation is because of his remarks to the press i don't think people will offer much sympathy. It is the nature of the beast. I forgot who said it but if you live by your comments in the media, your die by your comments in the media. Basically meaning don't talk to the media!

[CB Fry]

As i said time and time again he is owed at least an explanation.

 

But it isn't the end of the world. If you owned a company and someone took shots at it via the press then basically asked you to give them one of your products at a discount would you do it?

Then after you said no they then told your fanbase and the media about your decision? I don't think many people would.

That isn't to say that is the reason. Just saying that if it turns out the explanation is because of his remarks to the press i don't think people will offer much sympathy. It is the nature of the beast. I forgot who said it but if you live by your comments in the media, your die by your comments in the media. Basically meaning don't talk to the media!

 

 

Describing a season ticket as "getting a product at a discount" is stretching reality somewhat. Selling as many of them as possible is a central plank of any football club's business plan.

 

Yes, the price per match is reduced, but there is a significant financial commitment from the fan in the first place. If there was no reduction in cost per match no one, except a tiny % of really loopy fanatics would buy one. Clubs want to sell as many as possible because it ensures financial stability and safe business planning. They're not doing fans a favour by "discounting" it.

 

It's not some knock-down DFS sofa giveaway, it's a year long commitment from a "customer".

[um pahars]

As i said time and time again he is owed at least an explanation.

 

At least we agree on something

 

But it isn't the end of the world. If you owned a company and someone took shots at it via the press then basically asked you to give them one of your products at a discount would you do it?

 

Oh come on, supporting a football team and buying a season ticket is not the same as any normal business/consumer transaction. To try and suggest it is, is rather dienegenuous and somewhat missing the point about what buying a season ticket and supporting your team is all about.

 

Why have 13,000 other people signed up for a season ticket if it's not that much of a big deal???

 

Along with the commercial aspects of making such an investment, there are the emotional aspects attached to it.

 

Then after you said no they then told your fanbase and the media about your decision? I don't think many people would.

That isn't to say that is the reason. Just saying that if it turns out the explanation is because of his remarks to the press i don't think people will offer much sympathy. It is the nature of the beast. I forgot who said it but if you live by your comments in the media, your die by your comments in the media. Basically meaning don't talk to the media!

 

This isn't North Korea and football is always going to be an emotional business. After all you only have to look at this site to see what passions are aroused by a whole raft of issues, on and off the pitch.

[NickG]

It obviously wasn't that petty that they decided to revoke someones season ticket. I would have thought for them to take those actions they would have thought it to be more than petty.

 

Plus from the individuals perspective it is somewhat more than petty.

 

cLEARLY NOT PETTY FROM THE INDIVIDUAL, MEANT THAT THE CLUB THOUGHT INVESTIGATION WAS PETTY PERHAPS?

[NickG]

sorry caps lock!

[NickG]

how many, if any, here had heard of the IFO before this thread?

[aintforever]

I find it amazing how some people refuse point blank to question any decision Cortes makes, we've had the installment fiasco, the freezing out of legends, the photographers ban and now loyal fans being refused season tickets for something they said.

 

We are all grateful the club was saved by Leibherr and Cortese, no one wants them to go or is unhappy about what's happening in general - that doesn't mean you have to agree with every decision made. Some people need to grow some balls and be honest.

 

If I was Cortese I would welcome constructive criticism, he is new to the industry he is in - he is going to make mistakes. The best way to improve in his role is to get honest feedback, not spineless "you saved our club so are correct sir Cortese".

[Saint_clark]

I find it amazing how some people refuse point blank to question any decision Cortes makes, we've had the installment fiasco, the freezing out of legends, the photographers ban and now loyal fans being refused season tickets for something they said.

 

 

Instalment plans - it was questioned massively at the time, but a reason has been given.

Freezing out of legends - rubbish. No-one has been told they are not welcome.

Photographers ban - Cortese has gone back on this decision and admitted he was wrong.

And ONE fan has been told he can't be a season ticket and we have no idea what for - it's not like fans are being banned from attending en masse.

[St Marco]

 

 

Oh come on, supporting a football team and buying a season ticket is not the same as any normal business/consumer transaction. To try and suggest it is, is rather dienegenuous and somewhat missing the point about what buying a season ticket and supporting your team is all about.

 

But that is just it Pahars a season ticket is just a ticket with a discount. How can you get emotional about it? I have had countless seats all over The Dell and St Marys and i can't say i really care where i sit just as long as i see whats going on the pitch. Isn't that why we are there? Or is there something i have missed?

 

You mention the 13000 people but i am sure very few have bought them because they love their seat. More so because they get a discount on buying them all at the same time?

 

Let's not make it about something it is not. Or make it sound bigger then it is. The reality is some guy has been rejected a discounted ticket to watch the games. That is all it is.

Can get worked up about it and cry foul all you like but that is all it is. If it wasen't a guy who has a history with the local media nobody would give a ****. That might sound heartless but it is true.

I won't comment on it again as it is just silly, we have those who agree and those who don't agree. We will just go around in circles. I think it is a private dispute between Nick and the club and should of remained private. Has nothing to do with us.

[benjii]

I find it amazing how some people refuse point blank to question any decision Cortes makes, we've had the installment fiasco, the freezing out of legends, the photographers ban and now loyal fans being refused season tickets for something they said.

 

Hardly a "fiasco". A decision made because the existing system was stupid and commerically irational.

Presume you're referring to MLT? And Benali? Lawrie Mac? All three legends who the club may have a legitimate gripe with. I didn't see Rodrigues, Channon, Taylor, Case etc. being "frozen out" last weekend.

Bit of an odd one but presumably an experiment conducted for commercial reasons, probably with one eye firmly on the future. I can see no reason why any rank and file fan should care less though.

One fan, for reasons unknown.

[benjii]

But that is just it Pahars a season ticket is just a ticket with a discount. How can you get emotional about it? I have had countless seats all over The Dell and St Marys and i can't say i really care where i sit just as long as i see whats going on the pitch. Isn't that why we are there? Or is there something i have missed?

 

You mention the 13000 people but i am sure very few have bought them because they love their seat. More so because they get a discount on buying them all at the same time?

 

Let's not make it about something it is not. Or make it sound bigger then it is. The reality is some guy has been rejected a discounted ticket to watch the games. That is all it is.

Can get worked up about it and cry foul all you like but that is all it is. If it wasen't a guy who has a history with the local media nobody would give a ****. That might sound heartless but it is true.

I won't comment on it again as it is just silly, we have those who agree and those who don't agree. We will just go around in circles. I think it is a private dispute between Nick and the club and should of remained private. Has nothing to do with us.

 

Nutshell.

[Saint_clark]

Hardly a "fiasco". A decision made because the existing system was stupid and commerically irational.

Presume you're referring to MLT? And Benali? Lawrie Mac? All three legends who the club may have a legitimate gripe with. I didn't see Rodrigues, Channon, Taylor, Case etc. being "frozen out" last weekend.

Bit of an odd one but presumably an experiment conducted for commercial reasons, probably with one eye firmly on the future. I can see no reason why any rank and file fan should care less though.

One fan, for reasons unknown.

 

Your colour coded response was miles better than mine

[dune]

I think this thread has proved yet again how divisive these fans groups/fans leaders are. Most people are really happy with the general direction are the club are taking but surprise surprise up pop the super fans with their publicly played out agendas.

[manji]

I think this thread has proved yet again how divisive these fans groups/fans leaders are. Most people are really happy with the general direction are the club are taking but surprise surprise up pop the super fans with their publicly played out agendas.

 

Spot on and thats also why fanontheboard malcontents like um pahars are leaping to his defence.

[NickG]

bottom line for Cortese - like it or not - if we get promoted with good crowds he will have been 100% success this year.

[um pahars]

But that is just it Pahars a season ticket is just a ticket with a discount. How can you get emotional about it? I have had countless seats all over The Dell and St Marys and i can't say i really care where i sit just as long as i see whats going on the pitch. Isn't that why we are there? Or is there something i have missed?

 

You mention the 13000 people but i am sure very few have bought them because they love their seat. More so because they get a discount on buying them all at the same time?

 

To you, a season ticket may be just a ticket to a discount, but maybe to others it is more than that. A chance to sit with friends, a guaranteed seat, some extra benefits, no hassle, a commitment to the Club you support, maybe a badge of honour etc etc etc. Those 13,000 ST holders will probably have a myriad of reasons why they buy them (including some or none of the above reasons) and perhaps some of them would be just as upset if they were refused this oppourtunity and probably somewhat irked if this opportunity was denied with no good reason provided.

 

we have those who agree and those who don't agree. We will just go around in circles.

 

Once again we can probably agree on something. You have your opinion and I have mine and it has been good to debate our views in a sensible fashion without getting caught up in the personality involved, so thanks for that.

 

I hope it is resolved and I also hope we go from strength to strength and go up this season. With that in mind I'm off to Peterborough in 30 mins (have no idea why we're going do early!!!).

 

Take care.

[um pahars]

I think this thread has proved yet again how divisive these fans groups/fans leaders are. Most people are really happy with the general direction are the club are taking but surprise surprise up pop the super fans with their publicly played out agendas.

 

 

Some interesting logic there.

 

The ban on photographers caused some divisions on here and in real life, but I'm not sure the logical conclusion that should be drawn from that is that photographers are divisive! Instead it is the actions of the Club, that have been found wanting in the IFO report, that have been at the centre of this controversy.

[um pahars]

Spot on and thats also why fanontheboard malcontents like um pahars are leaping to his defence.

 

As with your snide accusation that I am attacking Cortese, I find your insinuation here to be just as ill thought out. Along with others I have attempted to rise above the individuals involved (although of course that will be difficult due to supporting the Club and Cortese in their efforts to move the Club forward and also knowing NI).

 

I personally would have thought you would have been above such attacks, but your contributions to this thread and your unnecessary and facetious lies have demonstrated that this would be too much to ask from yourself.

[dune]

Some interesting logic there.

 

The ban on photographers caused some divisions on here and in real life, but I'm not sure the logical conclusion that should be drawn from that is that photographers are divisive! Instead it is the actions of the Club, that have been found wanting in the IFO report, that have been at the centre of this controversy.

 

Chill, I was just getting a dig back in.

 

Enjoy the game.

[trousers]

Instead it is the actions of the Club, that have been found wanting in the IFO report, that have been at the centre of this controversy.

 

I know the IFO are badged as an independent arbitrator but they are human and humans are easily swayed (consciously or subconsciously).

 

Cortese (or whoever represented the club at the IFO meeting) would have known that they were under no obligation to disclose what they (rightly or wrongly) saw an internal club matter.

 

I therefore venture that the IFO, at least in part, came to their conclusion because they were hacked off that SFC played a straight bat.

 

To me, the most logical verdict from the IFO would gave been an open verdict but I suspect they were playing a tit-for-tat game with the club.

 

Yes, the IFO may well turn out to have made the correct verdict but it wasn't a verdict reached purely on logic IMHO.

[brmbrm]

I know the IFO are badged as an independent arbitrator but they are human and humans are easily swayed (consciously or subconsciously).

 

Cortese (or whoever represented the club at the IFO meeting) would have known that they were under no obligation to disclose what they (rightly or wrongly) saw an internal club matter.

 

I therefore venture that the IFO, at least in part, came to their conclusion because they were hacked off that SFC played a straight bat.

 

To me, the most logical verdict from the IFO would gave been an open verdict but I suspect they were playing a tit-for-tat game with the club.

 

Yes, the IFO may well turn out to have made the correct verdict but it wasn't a verdict reached purely on logic IMHO.

 

You really can't have that at all. If there is any lack of "independcen" in these sorts of organisaitons the big boys would be all over and they would be chucked out. They are only there because of their impartiality. You have zero evidence for what you are saying, but I guess you let your prejudice get in the way of it.

 

(And, yes, i speak from some experiencce here)

[Wes Tender]

Let's not make it about something it is not. Or make it sound bigger then it is. The reality is some guy has been rejected a discounted ticket to watch the games. That is all it is.

Can get worked up about it and cry foul all you like but that is all it is. If it wasen't a guy who has a history with the local media nobody would give a ****. That might sound heartless but it is true.I won't comment on it again as it is just silly, we have those who agree and those who don't agree. We will just go around in circles. I think it is a private dispute between Nick and the club and should of remained private. Has nothing to do with us.

 

This is the essence of the whole thing. Had it been any ordinary fan, there wouldn't have been any ripples at all. It would have been assumed that said fan had misbehaved or broken some term or condition applicable to the ST. Because it is Nick Illingworth, different assumptions are being made by his mates, the Echo, the handful of Saints Trust members, the ex-SISA brigade, TUI readers, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. Additionally, there are the few malcontents who despise Cortese and avail themselves of every opportunity to stick the knife in.

 

As St Marco points out, this is going round and round in circles and as nobody posting on the thread has access to the other side of the coin, it is pointless adding to the already overblown thread until any facts emerge from the Club. It's long overdue for the thread to be closed.

[trousers]

You really can't have that at all. If there is any lack of "independcen" in these sorts of organisaitons the big boys would be all over and they would be chucked out. They are only there because of their impartiality. You have zero evidence for what you are saying, but I guess you let your prejudice get in the way of it.

 

(And, yes, i speak from some experiencce here)

 

All quangos are truly independent? Hmmmm...

 

And I'm not saying they came to their decision unindependently. I'm suggesting that the way the human mind works may have influenced their independent decision.

 

Anyway, sincere apologies for airing an OPINION on here.

 

Sigh.

[Frank's cousin]

... Part of teh problem, the interset and the length of this thread seems to me to be because there are MORE than one question that this incident raises... Yes there are points of principle, questions or rights, and so on but as some (sour mash) has gone and got all emotional and accused me of being a shallow glory hunter (OK not in those words but teh implications were there) thought i'd best explain....

 

The questions raised seem to be:

 

1. What did Nick do (if anything) and does it warrant being denied a ST (which seems an odd 'punishment' - given he is not banned from the club)?

 

2. Should the club be able to do this without an explanation?

 

3. Should the club in general be far more communicative with Fans about all their decsions?

 

4. Should the club be open to criticism in public and why does it react to negative criticism in what appears to be quite a draconian fashion?

 

5. Is the 'lack of media explanation' and a general 'secretive' style, justified in any way?

 

6. Why does Nick always (and not seemingly correct) get presented as the voice of the fans?

 

So more than one issue being discussed so not surprised its gone on so long.... but so that I am not misinterpreted again, IMHO, my take etc is as follows:

 

1. I dont know what Nick has or has not done that has made the club act in this way - none of us do as the club is remaining silent on the matter. There has been speculation that its possibly to do with the negative reporting/comment Nick has made in public, especially if you read his response to the ST installment plan withdrawal. If you read it, it is quite damning of NC and the club and is made under the 'Trust's banner.

 

This would explain the 'punishment' - as we have seen that the club does not tolerate these things (right or wrong) and thus if dissatisfied with this issue, as many were on here, would it not have been best to approach the club out side the media spotlight, considering at the time everything was new and exciting? - not an issue for us mere mortals on here, but certainly one to consider if you are a known in teh media for 'saints voice soundbites'?

 

As to the punishment - well i do think its a little odd/trivial etc and apart from denying him a discount not really that harsh... there are as others have pointed out ways round it, but I can undersatnd NIck's perspective.

 

 

2. (and 3) Without and explanation? Well tricky one as in an ideal world, the club would be to each of us what we want it to be. Some demand minute levels of detail on all aspects of the strategic and tactical direction and explanations for everything, and at the other end of the spectrum you have fans who feeel that as long as we see good results on the pitch, are entertained etc, its a sign that the club is well managed and is getting most things right so we are happy. What we have is style of direction and management built on professional and confidential approaches - for some this is too secretive, for others its great (which is my stance) , because at last we have a chairman and management team, that is going quietly about their business, not in the media every five minutes and confident enough that they dont need to suck up to fans every five minutes in an effort to generate support against another clique - in effect the removeal of the 'political' use of the media. Fair enough perhaps its swung too far in that direction, but is this not also a reaction to the years of negative rubbish and political infighting that was seen before Markus arrived? When all dirty laundry was washed in public, with 'legends' wheeled out to support a PR battle that if you looked really carefully was usually spin and there to support decisons that were ultimately not in the clubs best interest? Spending money we simply could not afford springs to mind - supported by theboard at the board at the time and 'football figures' form the past - which menat most were happy with it, despit it being a huge risk that eventually led to our administration? So to me its no surprise that the new regime said 'enough is enough' no more of this - we dwill do business in silence - and release information quitely and in a controlled fashion as we have seen in the NC interviews. Yes this does need to rlax a bit, and I am sure it will as NC learns, the club learns and we become more acustomed to the approach - in effect as TRUST is developed between all parties.

 

4. Open to criticism - YES of course and despite Sour Mash's response to my last post, I was not saying it should not be. As I have pointed out time and again IMHO, things taht are good are good because they STAND up to criticism. What I was referring to is that I have lost patience with the constant little digs, the IMPRESSION' created by some that they almost welcome the opportunity to criticise, having for some reason not either come to terms with the new owenership and its style, or never will for a variety of unexplained reasons - hense my comment about those that still wish football was run by old school gents/'football people' and was 'community and fan' focussed first and foremost - YES clubs need that community and fan focus, but the nature of the modern game is that it cant be at the expense of a solid business foundation - if we as a fan base want to see the club develop and return to the top flight. A practical realism is needed that WILL OFTEN be at odds with the traditional values many hold dear... That is the reality, right or wrong and my point was that given its the reality, after years of a downward spiral in sporting terms, cant we just for once stop the sniping and go with the flow? Because whilst there are issues that are valid and oopen to debate, there is also alot of rubbish that seems to be spouted in public that can only be based on spite and bitterness.

 

If you have issues, take them up with the club in private and I am sure you will get a response, but using the media, is only going to antagonise the club and its not going to win you many friends who might otherwise have listened and taken on board what is perhaps a valid comment. Its not teh validity or otherwise of a critism that is the issue, but methods used to express it.

 

5. Yes it is, IMHO - because I am happy at this time to see how things develop - thjose with a paranoia that 'if its not nipped in the bud..it could evolve into some kind of evil masterplan' - need to chill out a bit. I am confident that as we progress and its clear the approach is working, NC and the club will relax a little and we will see more openess - But at this time its about pushing through cange and contriolling what you can so that the focus is on getting it right on the pitch. For me that is fine.. OK so others find it worrying, but ask yourselves why? Are you REALLY worried that its part of a nasty plan, or just pished off that you are starved of information and thus its fuelling either a deep seated paranoia (perhaps after the previous 5 years its understandable), or your ego is bruised?

 

6. Finally, poor old Nick. He is one of the good guys really, passionate, and loves the club. I have not always agreed with his campaigns, but I have respect for his beliefs even if not always the methods. I dont actually believe he craves the media spotlight, nor does he position himself as some self styled voice of fans... but he also maybe needs to correct that in the media - trouble is, they probably wont listen as it makes a better story for the press if they get a quote that 'carry's the weight of opinion of the fan base' than if its just an ordinary fans view - he just needs to stop talking to them and it woudl be sorted.

[1976_Child]

Nick Illingsworth is a ***t. Jumped up little pr!ck who thinks he 'represents' us all. Never mind that he used to be a hooligan. Stick your ego back in its box Nicky boy, then maybe come and support the club properly.

[NickG]

does the saints trust still exist and is he still the chairman?

[BLEEDREDANDWHITE]

What ever people think of Nick he has always been there, a saints fan . I can remember from the Branfoot days all the way though to the Lowe out campaigns other fans popping up claiming their 15mins in the limelight then disappearing never to be heard of again. Nick has always put himself up to be shot at, and will admit he has made mistakes , but just because you don't agree with him doe's that entitle the club to pick him out for special treatment and to be victimised without being given a honest sensible reason. the club must have a reason or if it is just Cortese being petty and showing I'm more powerful than you , it makes the club seem pathetic. So come on give the reason why he has been treated this way Nick wants to know and has no problem with the reason being published or is the club going to continue in this farcical manner?

[RoswellSaint]

Weather down here has been really weird of late. Lots of weird short lived storms blowing up, heavy rains mini Hurricanes and even some Tornadoes.

 

They've all blown over and it will be sunny all week.

 

Life is good, Tiger's coming to town for some relationship counselling. Thinking of taking him to the Seaview.

 

Enough said. Same for this thread

 

I think enough was said back on page 1. Amazed to find it has stretched to 13 pages now.

[aintforever]

Instalment plans - it was questioned massively at the time, but a reason has been given.

Freezing out of legends - rubbish. No-one has been told they are not welcome.

Photographers ban - Cortese has gone back on this decision and admitted he was wrong.

And ONE fan has been told he can't be a season ticket and we have no idea what for - it's not like fans are being banned from attending en masse.

 

But the photographers thing proves I am right. As you say Cortese admits he was wrong, me and some other on here said he was wrong at the time and we had the usual "anti Cortese" cr@p thrown at us for simply daring to question his decision. It was obviously a dumb idea yet people on here refused to see it because it was Cortese's idea.

 

The installment thing was the same, Cortese admits there were communication problems, anyone on here who moaned about the same thing were "anti cortese" as well. The same plebs said everything was OK when Cortese himself admitted later they were not.

[Saint_clark]

But the photographers thing proves I am right. As you say Cortese admits he was wrong, me and some other on here said he was wrong at the time and we had the usual "anti Cortese" cr@p thrown at us for simply daring to question his decision. It was obviously a dumb idea yet people on here refused to see it because it was Cortese's idea.

 

The installment thing was the same, Cortese admits there were communication problems, anyone on here who moaned about the same thing were "anti cortese" as well. The same plebs said everything was OK when Cortese himself admitted later they were not.

 

Absolute rubbish and a complete rewrite of what actually happened.

Instalment plans - everyone said it was a bad idea to remove them. Everyone. But some of us were willing to wait for a reason before we slated the club for it.

Photographers ban - again, everyone was against it and a little embarrassed at the reaction of some of the media.

And what exactly does your last sentence mean? What did Cortese admit "wasn't OK"?

[hypochondriac]

Absolute rubbish and a complete rewrite of what actually happened.

Instalment plans - everyone said it was a bad idea to remove them. Everyone. But some of us were willing to wait for a reason before we slated the club for it.

Photographers ban - again, everyone was against it and a little embarrassed at the reaction of some of the media.

And what exactly does your last sentence mean? What did Cortese admit "wasn't OK"?

 

No they weren't! With the photographer thing especially we were told by many on here what a good business decision it was and how it was revolutionary. You have a very selective memory.

[Chorlton]

Time to give it a rest me thinks nothing to debate until this comes to a conclusion. The club will have to answer the football league as to why they were in breach of rules,and i guess it carries on from there.

[aintforever]

Absolute rubbish and a complete rewrite of what actually happened.

Instalment plans - everyone said it was a bad idea to remove them. Everyone. But some of us were willing to wait for a reason before we slated the club for it.

Photographers ban - again, everyone was against it and a little embarrassed at the reaction of some of the media.

And what exactly does your last sentence mean? What did Cortese admit "wasn't OK"?

 

The main gripe with the installments was that there was no notice given, then we were told it was "admin costs" Romseysaint got slated for proving this was b@ll@x and it turned out it was because of people not paying them. To say everyone agreed was nonsense. Cortese admited the handling wasnt OK when he said later there were problems.

 

I remember loads of people backing the idiotic photographers ban.

 

I'm not saying we should slate Cortese at every decision, just saying people should be honest and say when they think it is wrong. If Lowe had made ANY of those decisions he would have got a right kicking on here.

Edited 5 February, 2011 by aintforever

[Saint_clark]

No they weren't! With the photographer thing especially we were told by many on here what a good business decision it was and how it was revolutionary. You have a very selective memory.

 

Just checked back, and you're right - there were a few people who thought the photographer thing would work, and a few "sarcastic" comments from Deppo etc, but the vast, vast majority of people knew at the time what a silly idea it was.

And same with regards to instalments plans. You may well be able to find the odd nutter that thought it was a good idea, but to make out that everyone was turning a blind eye and applauding Cortese for it is ridiculous.

[Saint_clark]

The main gripe with the installments was that there was no notice given, then we were told it was "admin costs" Romseysaint got slated for proving this was b@ll@x and it turned out it was because of people not paying them. To say everyone agreed was nonsense. Cortese admited the handling wasnt OK when he said later there were problems.

 

I remember loads of people backing the idiotic photographers ban.

 

I'm not saying we should slate Cortese at every decision, just saying people should be honest and say when they think it is wrong. If Lowe had made ANY of those decisions he would have got a right kicking on here.

 

Yes, because Rupert Lowe f*cked our club over and made many a stupid decision. Cortese has actually brought us a chance of success and, so far, has corrected all the mistakes he's made.

[hypochondriac]

Just checked back, and you're right - there were a few people who thought the photographer thing would work, and a few "sarcastic" comments from Deppo etc, but the vast, vast majority of people knew at the time what a silly idea it was.

And same with regards to instalments plans. You may well be able to find the odd nutter that thought it was a good idea, but to make out that everyone was turning a blind eye and applauding Cortese for it is ridiculous.

 

It wasn't the odd nutter it was a significant amount on here. You are trying to rewrite history now.some of the people who were praising those silly decisions are the ones now calling ni a tw*t and that this silly decision by the club not to give an explanation should be applauded.

[CanadaSaint]

This thread is now officially as large as the Exeter match thread and Exeter post match thread combined.

 

Just saying.