Gingeletiss Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 What assumptions have I made? If a Saints fan is denied the right to be allowed to buy a season ticket, as an absolute MINIMUM he should be given an explanation as to why. I can't believe that people don't at least agree with that point! Are you honestly telling me you would not want to know why? Would you at least want an explanation, yes or no? Yes, but given what I have just posted about life being full of these episodes, then I wouldn't go crying to the media if I didn't get one. Now a yes or no question for you...do you think that the club had a reason to do this? yes or no?
Sour Mash Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Yes, but given what I have just posted about life being full of these episodes, then I wouldn't go crying to the media if I didn't get one. Now a yes or no question for you...do you think that the club had a reason to do this? yes or no? I'm sure they have a reason and I pretty sure it's a very petty one (obviously I don't KNOW). I am glad we are in agreement that the club are in the wrong on this, but its a pity that you'd roll over so easily if you'd been badly treated by the club.
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Then why did you say "supposedly Cortese has acknowledged this and I am hopeful that should decisions like this be taken in future, that they will be explained properly (although I am still waiting for an explanation as to why there is no solent forum despite cortese saying at one of the dinners he was eager to have one." Only a few posts ago? What has that got to do with a Saints fan not being given a ticket? Sounds like a pop at Cortese to me? To my knowledge the only posts I have made about Cortese on this thread are in reply to saint clark who was making a statement specifically about Cortese which I replied to (feel free to point out other examples if you believe that not to be the case and I will apologise.) I accept that was slightly off topic but others were talk about Nick as if him being a tw*t in their eyes means that he is not entitled to an explanation whereas in my eyes you are entitled to one no matter who you are. That clear enough pal? Edit: Just realised I also mentioned Cortese in my response to franks cousin but again that was a reply to his bit about the wider issue of fans criticising the cub and not the particular issue of Nick being denied a season ticket and an explanation which is where his merits as a fan are irrelevant. Please see quote above for your answer.
Gingeletiss Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I'm sure they have a reason and I pretty sure it's a very petty one (obviously I don't KNOW). I am glad we are in agreement that the club are in the wrong on this, but its a pity that you'd roll over so easily if you'd been badly treated by the club. See, that's what I don't get about many posters on here. You are sure it's 'petty', but you haven't a clue really, you're just name calling in the playground, to look like billy bigboll1cks. The time to slate the chairman, is if and when the reason is made public, and it is indeed petty, bet a dollar, you wouldn't apoligise for your massive over reaction! ps...I never said the club was wrong, it's how you have interpreted it!
Wes Tender Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 i agree banning a fan who has a been a season ticket for 30 years is disgusting,we are all saints fans .cortese f ucked up big time over this petty his attitude over this matter and it has shown with this judgement. You continually persist in leaping to conclusions based on one side of the argument. As has aleady been pointed out to you, NI has not been banned, but again, you are not entitled to conclude that Cortese's actions are "disgusting" nor that he has f ucked up over it. And anyway, the time period that a person held a ST is not necessarily a reason in itself whether that entitlement to the ticket should continue. There are terms and conditions attached to it that could be breached regardless of the length of tenure. You do not know whether that was a factor anymore than any of us, so kindly stop the accusations against the club until you have any basis for them.
Gingeletiss Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Please see quote above for your answer. But Hypo, even one post about NC, is 'discussing the merits of him' do you agree?
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 But Hypo, even one post about NC, is 'discussing the merits of him' do you agree? I was replying to a post about him in this thread but I was referring to the wider issue of fan communication rather than the specific Nick issue which has nothing to do with NC really. Topics as long as this do have a tendency to go off topic a bit and that was one example. I never discussed the merits of NC in relation to the club withholding Nick's ticket and I never used this issue as an excuse to have a pop at NC like Marco is suggesting.
um pahars Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Yes, but given what I have just posted about life being full of these episodes, then I wouldn't go crying to the media if I didn't get one. Now a yes or no question for you...do you think that the club had a reason to do this? yes or no? Has Nick gone crying to the media?? Firstly he contacted the Club on numerous occasions (don't remember any publicity about this) but received no response to his complaint. He then sought assistance from the Football League, once again I don't remember any crying to the media. He also sought an opportunity for a mediation meeting which was rejected. Only then did he follow the correct protocol in involving the IFO (who publish their findings in the public domain) and I still haven't seen what I would call "crying to the media". If anything I would argue NI has kept his counsel on this one and followed the correct protocol from the start.
trousers Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 (edited) Has Nick gone crying to the media?? Firstly he contacted the Club on numerous occasions (don't remember any publicity about this) but received no response to his complaint. He then sought assistance from the Football League, once again I don't remember any crying to the media. He also sought an opportunity for a mediation meeting which was rejected. Only then did he follow the correct protocol in involving the IFO (who publish their findings in the public domain) and I still haven't seen what I would call "crying to the media". If anything I would argue NI has kept his counsel on this one and followed the correct protocol from the start. This is the only thing I could find (leading up to the season ticket withdrawal event) that has a somewhat provocative/frustrated tone.... http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?27994-The-refusal-to-sell-a-season-ticket-at-Southampton-FC&p=957422#post957422 Edited 4 February, 2011 by trousers
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 The only reason this came to light in the first place was because there were rumours posted on here and TUI (presumably Nick had told a few mates who had posted something on the messageboards and Stu was the person who told me.) As far as I'm aware Nick did not go running to the media (though happy to admit I do not know that as fact.)
trousers Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 12 pages ?? jesus christ You'd better have a word with Simo. He was on page counting duties earlier today. Don't want people stepping on each other's toes.
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 You'd better have a word with Simo. He was on page counting duties earlier today. Don't want people stepping on each other's toes. I see invaluable comments continue to be added by posters in order to debate the issues at hand.
Gingeletiss Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I was replying to a post about him in this thread but I was referring to the wider issue of fan communication rather than the specific Nick issue which has nothing to do with NC really. Topics as long as this do have a tendency to go off topic a bit and that was one example. I never discussed the merits of NC in relation to the club withholding Nick's ticket and I never used this issue as an excuse to have a pop at NC like Marco is suggesting. I don't know how to multi quote you Hypo, but please, two posts only!, I've lost count! .....Again, as far as I understand this issue has nothing to do with Nick at all. I'm not even sure why his merits as a fan are being debated. If the club makes a decision which deprives a fan of a season ticket then that fan should get an explanation. IMO that is the only issue here... but a quick reminder for you on your quote!
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I don't know how to multi quote you Hypo, but please, two posts only!, I've lost count! .....Again, as far as I understand this issue has nothing to do with Nick at all. I'm not even sure why his merits as a fan are being debated. If the club makes a decision which deprives a fan of a season ticket then that fan should get an explanation. IMO that is the only issue here... but a quick reminder for you on your quote! Because (as I said in the original quote) "others were talking about Nick as if him being a tw*t in their eyes means that he is not entitled to an explanation whereas in my eyes you are entitled to one no matter who you are." I was discussing where NC could improve in general as a separate comment unrelated to the Nick season ticket issue whereas others were airing their problems about Nick and suggesting that because of them he was not entitled to an opinion whereas really his merits as fan are totally irrelevant when discussing his entitlement to an opinion.
Smirking_Saint Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I see invaluable comments continue to be added by posters in order to debate the issues at hand. I see Hypo's constant banging on and on and on and on about absolutely nothing interesting at all continues to drive up his ever growing post count and page count.
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Total Posts 8,074 Posts Per Day 11.58 FAF.
St Marco Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Please see quote above for your answer. Okay fair do's. Because Cortese should not be mentioned here as it clearly say's in this IFO report it was dealt with by the head of retail. So for all we know he might not have had anything to do with it. I will however ask one question that a fellow Saints supporter who has been a ticket holder as long as i have asked me today. If you are a huge Saints fan. Had been to see them through the bad and good times. Spent hundreds of pounds a year on travelling to see them. Obviously a big fan. And you for whatever reason ****ed them off and they declined you a season ticket what would you do? Would you A, accept it and not watch Saints for the season? B, Get someone else to buy the ticket for you? or C, Go public about the treatment and seek media exposure of your Victimisation? I.e on forums, paper, compalints groups and so on. Now be honest here. The likely hood of most fans, or most normal people is to be ****ed off that you can't watch the games! Your find a way! So i bet the vast majority of fans would choose B and simply get someone else to buy the ticket. Get your mrs to buy it. Fook morales and politics i just want to watch the games! But you just know that if this happened to Nick he would not do that. It isn't his "style" shall we say? We all know at the very least he deserves an explanation. But is your love for Saints a political thing or an emotional thing? For me i will climb over the walls to watch if i have to! Point being rather then be quiet about it and just watch the games by getting around it i.e get your mrs to buy it and gift it to you he couldn't do that. Has to go the morale path. And you have to say that his chances of ever watching Saints again are made smaller everytime something like this is put in the media. At the end of the day the club legally don't have to give you a reason why. Which sucks but that is the law.
Smirking_Saint Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 You'd better have a word with Simo. He was on page counting duties earlier today. Don't want people stepping on each other's toes. I left my Laptop at work yesterday, i wonder if anything more had come about to warrant the extra 7 pages since i departed the forum Wednesday night ?? Or is it still a case of; We don't know the ins and outs, NI probably deserved his banning (from STH) but all in all Saints should have given an explanation ?
Smirking_Saint Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Okay fair do's. Because Cortese should not be mentioned here as it clearly say's in this IFO report it was dealt with by the head of retail. So for all we know he might not have had anything to do with it. I will however ask one question that a fellow Saints supporter who has been a ticket holder as long as i have asked me today. If you are a huge Saints fan. Had been to see them through the bad and good times. Spent hundreds of pounds a year on travelling to see them. Obviously a big fan. And you for whatever reason ****ed them off and they declined you a season ticket what would you do? Would you A, accept it and not watch Saints for the season? B, Get someone else to buy the ticket for you? or C, Go public about the treatment and seek media exposure of your Victimisation? I.e on forums, paper, compalints groups and so on. Now be honest here. The likely hood of most fans, or most normal people is to be ****ed off that you can't watch the games! Your find a way! So i bet the vast majority of fans would choose B and simply get someone else to buy the ticket. Get your mrs to buy it. Fook morales and politics i just want to watch the games! But you just know that if this happened to Nick he would not do that. It isn't his "style" shall we say? We all know at the very least he deserves an explanation. But is your love for Saints a political thing or an emotional thing? For me i will climb over the walls to watch if i have to! Point being rather then be quiet about it and just watch the games by getting around it i.e get your mrs to buy it and gift it to you he couldn't do that. Has to go the morale path. And you have to say that his chances of ever watching Saints again are made smaller everytime something like this is put in the media. At the end of the day the club legally don't have to give you a reason why. Which sucks but that is the law. Top post
Viking Warrior Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 The one thing I have learnt about this thread is that there is an organisation called IFO which I had previously never heard off and that it is headed up by someone who used to teach History
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Okay fair do's. Because Cortese should not be mentioned here as it clearly say's in this IFO report it was dealt with by the head of retail. So for all we know he might not have had anything to do with it. I will however ask one question that a fellow Saints supporter who has been a ticket holder as long as i have asked me today. If you are a huge Saints fan. Had been to see them through the bad and good times. Spent hundreds of pounds a year on travelling to see them. Obviously a big fan. And you for whatever reason ****ed them off and they declined you a season ticket what would you do? Would you A, accept it and not watch Saints for the season? B, Get someone else to buy the ticket for you? or C, Go public about the treatment and seek media exposure of your Victimisation? I.e on forums, paper, compalints groups and so on. Now be honest here. The likely hood of most fans, or most normal people is to be ****ed off that you can't watch the games! Your find a way! So i bet the vast majority of fans would choose B and simply get someone else to buy the ticket. Get your mrs to buy it. Fook morales and politics i just want to watch the games! But you just know that if this happened to Nick he would not do that. It isn't his "style" shall we say? We all know at the very least he deserves an explanation. But is your love for Saints a political thing or an emotional thing? For me i will climb over the walls to watch if i have to! Point being rather then be quiet about it and just watch the games by getting around it i.e get your mrs to buy it and gift it to you he couldn't do that. Has to go the morale path. And you have to say that his chances of ever watching Saints again are made smaller everytime something like this is put in the media. At the end of the day the club legally don't have to give you a reason why. Which sucks but that is the law. Firstly that isn't what he did. He contacted the club in private more than once in private and received no reply. Following that presumably he told some mates who then told some people on the forums and he only made a comment once people were asking him online whether it was true. He wasn't seeking media exposure to my knowledge. Also you have to remember that buying on a match by match basis is a lot more expensive so it inconveniences him in more ways than one. I don't think that the fact it is legal makes much of a difference, and I don't think whether he sought media exposure or not is relevant. I just think he deserves an explanation.
Smirking_Saint Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Total Posts 8,074 Posts Per Day 11.58 FAF. Total posts 9,936 Posts of interest 0
hypochondriac Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Insightfully telling us the page number. Well done.
trousers Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I left my Laptop at work yesterday, i wonder if anything more had come about to warrant the extra 7 pages since i departed the forum Wednesday night ?? Or is it still a case of; We don't know the ins and outs, NI probably deserved his banning (from STH) but all in all Saints should have given an explanation ?
simo Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Just wondering if there would be this much interest if it were me not aloud a season ticket ?
BLEEDREDANDWHITE Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Keep going, can't wait to read the 1000th post
Wes Tender Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 The one thing I have learnt about this thread is that there is an organisation called IFO which I had previously never heard off and that it is headed up by someone who used to teach History Congratulations, VW, for one of the very few posts on here which is based purely on facts rather than conjecture, speculation or inuendo.
Deppo Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 NI deserved his banning probably, just like the guys at Gunatanamo probably did something wrong, and all the people the Egyptian Police beat up today, they were probably all child-molesters. Now be quiet, I'm watching Countdown.
Scottie Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Well actually the IFO report states, "The complainant ...... has never had a substantive reply from Southampton FC." Wouldn't have thought they would put that there if he has received a reply. "The Club had by no means explained its actions even to the Football League" So the league never got an explanation either. "Despite this reassurance that “Chatham House rules” would apply, the officials could not explain to the IFO’s satisfaction why the Club had taken the action" Neither did the IFO get a direct answer either. Furthermore, "The IFO enquired why no reason had been given to the complainant and suggested that, even at this late date, a letter could be sent to the complainant stating in general terms why the Club, possibly temporarily, had chosen not to extend to the complainant the privileges associated with season ticket ownership. This would at least address one part of the complaint, that no communication had been sent to the complainant explaining why he was subject to the season ticket restriction. Club officials agreed to consider this option. " Which clears up that the Club have yet to communicate to NI (or anyone else) their reasons for doing so. Your point has been raised by a few people now, and all I can suggest is that people read the full report as the report negates some of the suggestions that are being put forward on this thread. The report doesn't say he never got a reply, it says he never received a substantive reply. Which clearly implies that he did get a reply, but that the reply he got wasn't a full explanation.
um pahars Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Okay fair do's. Because Cortese should not be mentioned here as it clearly say's in this IFO report it was dealt with by the head of retail. So for all we know he might not have had anything to do with it. I will however ask one question that a fellow Saints supporter who has been a ticket holder as long as i have asked me today. If you are a huge Saints fan. Had been to see them through the bad and good times. Spent hundreds of pounds a year on travelling to see them. Obviously a big fan. And you for whatever reason ****ed them off and they declined you a season ticket what would you do? Would you A, accept it and not watch Saints for the season? B, Get someone else to buy the ticket for you? or C, Go public about the treatment and seek media exposure of your Victimisation? I.e on forums, paper, compalints groups and so on. Now be honest here. The likely hood of most fans, or most normal people is to be ****ed off that you can't watch the games! Your find a way! So i bet the vast majority of fans would choose B and simply get someone else to buy the ticket. Get your mrs to buy it. Fook morales and politics i just want to watch the games! But you just know that if this happened to Nick he would not do that. It isn't his "style" shall we say? We all know at the very least he deserves an explanation. But is your love for Saints a political thing or an emotional thing? For me i will climb over the walls to watch if i have to! Point being rather then be quiet about it and just watch the games by getting around it i.e get your mrs to buy it and gift it to you he couldn't do that. Has to go the morale path. And you have to say that his chances of ever watching Saints again are made smaller everytime something like this is put in the media. At the end of the day the club legally don't have to give you a reason why. Which sucks but that is the law. Personally, I would have followed the path that NI followed in that I would have tried to contact the Club direct first, then tried mediation (maybe even approached a friendly face on the inside e.g. Luker when he was there), the League and finally the IFO. If I was convinced I had done nothing wrong and had been unfairly treated I certainly wouldn't just roll over and them let them treat me like dirt. Why should I let them make my watching of Saints awkward (arranging tickets for 23 games, paying a fair bit extra, not guaranteeing I could sit with my mates, losing ST benefits etc) for no good reason? As for getting someone to buy a season ticket in their name for me, then I'm not sure I would take that risk as there would be every possibility of the Club finding out that the ticket has been transferred and therefore in breach of the terms and conditions, meaning they could revoke that one as well (presumably without the refund!!!).
um pahars Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 The report doesn't say he never got a reply, it says he never received a substantive reply. Which clearly implies that he did get a reply, but that the reply he got wasn't a full explanation. Indeed, and my response was in the context of responding to the question "how do we know that no explanation has been given?", which the IFO report clears up and confirms he (and others) hasn't.
dune Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I think it is difficult for fans that didn't go to the Silverspoons event to understand why some fans aren't supporting Mr. Illingsworth in this, so as someone who did attend and felt both ripped off and let down by it I thought I would share it with you.... I bought four tickets for the event, when I purchased them, they came with the promise of food, ex players, many bars, entertainment etc. etc. What we got for our money was a total dump of a nightclub, with one tiny bar(serving overpriced cans that took about an hour to get), not enough toilets(everybody urinating outside), the worlds worst DJ (who even ruined it when the fans tried to get an atmosphere going by overpowering them with the wrong words over the mic). There were no ex players and no food. It was a disgrace in all honesty. A total rip off. I aired my grievances on the facebook page and somebody (I don't remember the name of) said he was a friend of Mr. Illingsworth's and gave me his e-mail address and said he would be happy to respond to any complaints. I worded a polite but highly critical e-mail about the event to the said e-mail address. I didn't ask for a refund, just an explanation as to why certain things were promised, that never happened. I received no reply. I have spoken to quite a few Saints fans who all felt the same as me, and all e-mailed the same address. Not one received a reply. Do I believe the club should revoke somebodies ST without giving them a reason? No. But excuse me if I and many others feel little sympathy and don't buy into the whole "victim" persona. His complaining to the media of not being given a reason is hypocritical as far as I am concerned. Don't ask someone else to do something that you aren't prepared to do yourself. If Nick never bothered replying to the people he ripped off then i've got no sympathy for him over his season ticket.
dune Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 NI deserved his banning probably, just like the guys at Gunatanamo probably did something wrong, and all the people the Egyptian Police beat up today, they were probably all child-molesters. Now be quiet, I'm watching Countdown. Did someone once tell you that you were funny?
Deppo Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 If Nick never bothered replying to the people he ripped off then i've got no sympathy for him over his season ticket. Really? You are normally such a sympathetic and sensitive soul.
Deppo Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Did someone once tell you that you were funny? What are you trying to imply?
dune Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 What are you trying to imply? That you're a one trick pony that laughs at his own jokes.
aintforever Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I don't give a monkeys about Illingsworth, I've never met the bloke but he's obviously a bit of a t!t and the Saints Trust is just a vehicle for his big mouth. It's the principle that's important. If decent Saints supporters are being refused a season ticket because someone doesn't agree with what they said (which is how this appears) it's just plain wrong - this is not f*cking China.
um pahars Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 If Nick never bothered replying to the people he ripped off then i've got no sympathy for him over his season ticket. I can accept that not having sympathy for NI could be deemed a valid viewpoint, particularly if he hasn't apologised for the Silverspoon's debacle. However, doesn't that make the lack of explanation and/or apology from the Club just as poor (if not worse given their own Supporters Charter & standing in the Community)? Surely if we're going to criticise NI for his failings in not apologising, then the Club, who should be even more responsible and professional, can be criticised for the same failings?
CanadaSaint Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Very few issues in the world are truly black or white, and few are exactly what they seem to be. If we’ve discovered anything about Cortese over the past eighteen months or so, it’s that you cross him at your peril, and that he doesn’t feel he owes an explanation to anyone. He’ll tell it as he sees it when it suits him to do so, but he can go silent when people seek an explanation or further detail. That works for us more often than it works against us IMO. But, funnily enough, much the same can be said for Illingsworth. Apparently, he also didn’t feel he owed an explanation to the people who e-mailed him about Silverspoons. He also tells it as he sees it, but he too can go quiet when it suits him. That’s the futility of this debate. People are looking for blacks and whites, rights and wrongs, when a lot of the issue will always be hiding in the bushes. Both parties have chosen to clam up, not just one of them. They can both be right, and they can both be wrong, and they can both want the best for the Club – even when this kind of sh*t is flying. Ob balance, for now, I’ll take Cortese as our chairman, warts and all, in a heartbeat – partly because that’s just how he is, partly because it actually seems to work (despite some negative PR at times), and partly because there’s absolutely nothing that you or I can do about it. I’m with Frank’s Cousin. I’m sick of the fact that we’ll still find stuff to b*tch about – endlessly – even when the club as a whole is on a major upswing after years in the wilderness.
St Marco Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 ? As for getting someone to buy a season ticket in their name for me, then I'm not sure I would take that risk as there would be every possibility of the Club finding out that the ticket has been transferred and therefore in breach of the terms and conditions, meaning they could revoke that one as well (presumably without the refund!!!). But you can say it is a gift. If your friend/partner buys it for you and gifts it to you technically it is their seat but they gave it to you. The club won't care. and they won't know who is sitting there. I am sure we have all loaned a friend our ticket when we can't make it! It is when they got your picture up on the styles that you want to worry
Deppo Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 That you're a one trick pony that laughs at his own jokes. This is really disappointing for me. I was trying to make you laugh. I feel really distraught. Out of everyone on TSW, you are the person that puts himself across as a really loving and sweet fellow, who I would be really honoured to know and spend time with in real life. The fact that you have admitted that you feel this way about me makes me wonder why I have bothered to pretend to be a racist on the EDL thread, or on the mainboard calender thread. I am really upset. Please tell me that it isn't true, that you do love and respect me and find my jokes amusing. Please.
Gingeletiss Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Very few issues in the world are truly black or white, and few are exactly what they seem to be. If we’ve discovered anything about Cortese over the past eighteen months or so, it’s that you cross him at your peril, and that he doesn’t feel he owes an explanation to anyone. He’ll tell it as he sees it when it suits him to do so, but he can go silent when people seek an explanation or further detail. That works for us more often than it works against us IMO. But, funnily enough, much the same can be said for Illingsworth. Apparently, he also didn’t feel he owed an explanation to the people who e-mailed him about Silverspoons. He also tells it as he sees it, but he too can go quiet when it suits him. That’s the futility of this debate. People are looking for blacks and whites, rights and wrongs, when a lot of the issue will always be hiding in the bushes. Both parties have chosen to clam up, not just one of them. They can both be right, and they can both be wrong, and they can both want the best for the Club – even when this kind of sh*t is flying. Ob balance, for now, I’ll take Cortese as our chairman, warts and all, in a heartbeat – partly because that’s just how he is, partly because it actually seems to work (despite some negative PR at times), and partly because there’s absolutely nothing that you or I can do about it. I’m with Frank’s Cousin. I’m sick of the fact that we’ll still find stuff to b*tch about – endlessly – even when the club as a whole is on a major upswing after years in the wilderness. Great post imho
St Marco Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Ok i did a little digging, and i could be wrong. So if i am then i mean no offence. But i have been reading the report the IFO gave and i have also been looking at NI statements on this and for me something doesn't make sense. So maybe someone can point out why or how i have it wrong! Hypo mentioned he contacted the club in private and received no reply? I.e he did everything behind closed doors before telling us lot about it? It clearly states on the IFO report that "On the 6th of July and on several occasions over the month the complainent contacted the club to seek an explanation as to why. He was informed he would be contacted shortly". Meaning first contact Nick made with the club was the 6th of July. Three weeks later this thread appears with his statement http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?24083-It-appears-that-Nick-Illingsworth-has-been-refused-a-season-ticket&highlight=nick If you read his statement he say's "Despite repeated emailed requests to various members of senior management at the club and attempts to speak to them on the phone I again have received no reason for this happening or until yesterday anyone who would actually acknowledge my correspondence." Notice the key words "or until yesterday anyone who would actually acknowledge my correspondence" Is this the date the club said to him they would" contact him shortly"? Because if it is that would be the 26th of July. If it isn't the date they said they would contact him then what was it and why was it not mentioned in the IFO report? The club had communicated with him on this date, seems a bit of a big thing to simply ignore if they acknowledged his letters/emails/calls? Who was that person? Meaning a day after being told/acknowledged something by the club he released his statement into the public domain. As i said maybe i have got it wrong but to me it seems a bit odd no?
um pahars Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 But you can say it is a gift. If your friend/partner buys it for you and gifts it to you technically it is their seat but they gave it to you. The club won't care. and they won't know who is sitting there. I am sure we have all loaned a friend our ticket when we can't make it! It is when they got your picture up on the styles that you want to worry I think if they cared that much to revoke the ticket and put a refund through without telling you this was happening, then I wouldn't put it past them to care enough to come down on you if you had managed to sneak in via the back door (and this time not give you a refund LOL).
dune Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I can accept that not having sympathy for NI could be deemed a valid viewpoint, particularly if he hasn't apologised for the Silverspoon's debacle. However, doesn't that make the lack of explanation and/or apology from the Club just as poor (if not worse given their own Supporters Charter & standing in the Community)? Surely if we're going to criticise NI for his failings in not apologising, then the Club, who should be even more responsible and professional, can be criticised for the same failings? If you couple the Silverspoons debacle and lack of a response to his customers with the way he lords it about as "Chairman of the Saints Trust" you start to build up picture of why Nicola Cortese would have been morally justified in taking the stance he did. I don't think the club owe nick an explanation given these things, and to give an explanation could potentially leave the club on dodgy ground in the same way that employers don't mention bad things on references.
um pahars Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 I don't think the club owe nick an explanation So Nick needs to give his disgruntled "customers" an explanation, but the Club don't need to. I love consistency, me. As for the other stuff either side of that classic dash of hypocrisy, then I have to say I much prefer it when you ramble on about the Empire.
Red&White Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 good this man does not speak for me so why does he not just stop speaking to the media, he must know that he just rubs people up the wrong way just by giving an interview under the guise of "fans representative" get out of here YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME!!!!!!!!!! Amen !
dune Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 So Nick needs to give his disgruntled "customers" an explanation, but the Club don't need to. I love consistency, me. As for the other stuff either side of that classic dash of hypocrisy, then I have to say I much prefer it when you ramble on about the Empire. Nick didn't give his disgruntled customers an explanation, therefore he's now experiencing what it feels like and moaning like **** about it. As for your other comment if you want to start getting personal then two can play at that game.
Deppo Posted 4 February, 2011 Posted 4 February, 2011 Nick didn't give his disgruntled customers an explanation, therefore he's now experiencing what it feels like and moaning like **** about it. As for your other comment if you want to start getting personal then two can play at that game. Dune, do you ever wonder why everyone you come into contact with disagrees with everything you say?
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