The refusal to sell a season ticket at Southampton FC

[Saint_clark]

I think some of the things Cortese has done are very good and plenty not so good and I will criticise him accordingly. Please explain to me how me doing this has any detrimental effect on Southampton Football Club?

 

Of course we will all criticise him when it's due, but "plenty" not so good? I can think of one thing - charging the newspapers for the use of photos. We all knew that was silly at the time, and he's turned around on that.

[Sour Mash]

I'm trying to work out whether you're unhappy because NI is your mate, or whether it's because you can't abide NC. Pardon me if I get the impression that you have some agenda here, as your posts suggest that to me. Apologies if I'm mistaken, but you seem to be the proverbial dog with a bone.

 

The most sensible posts on here have concluded that as only one side of the story is in the public domain, then it is futile piling in with all this conjecture as to what the reasons and motives were for the Club refusing to issue a ST to NI.

 

I'd certainly hate to be before a court where some on here were on the jury, as clearly some are prepared to issue the guilty verdict without having heard the case for the defence.

 

Do you know what a criminal court's usual reaction is to a defendant continually going "no comment"? Do you know what they usually infer from that?

[hypochondriac]

This is jusr ridiculous and I see now more than ever that certain people will defend the club over anything. I think that generally people who are sensible agree that someone who is refused a season ticket at the very least deserves an explanation. I would say that whoever it was who had been denied a ticket.

[Saint_clark]

This is jusr ridiculous and I see now more than ever that certain people will defend the club over anything. I think that generally people who are sensible agree that someone who is refused a season ticket at the very least deserves an explanation. I would say that whoever it was who had been denied a ticket.

 

Everyone agrees that an explanation should be provided. But some of us aren't going to condemn the club until we hear the reason...or until no reason is given.

[hypochondriac]

Of course we will all criticise him when it's due, but "plenty" not so good? I can think of one thing - charging the newspapers for the use of photos. We all knew that was silly at the time, and he's turned around on that.

 

Other than this the only gripe I have is that little explanation was given for decisions. For instance the removal of the season ticket installments if it had been explained as it was at the season ticket dinners (putting in a new system it will be back for next season) would have caused a lot less irritation. Having said that, supposedly Cortese has acknowledged this and I am hopeful that should decisions like this be taken in future, that they will be explained properly (although I am still waiting for an explanation as to why there is no solent forum despite cortese saying at one of the dinners he was eager to have one.)

[Sour Mash]

I'm trying to work out whether you're unhappy because NI is your mate, or whether it's because you can't abide NC. Pardon me if I get the impression that you have some agenda here, as your posts suggest that to me. Apologies if I'm mistaken, but you seem to be the proverbial dog with a bone.

 

The most sensible posts on here have concluded that as only one side of the story is in the public domain, then it is futile piling in with all this conjecture as to what the reasons and motives were for the Club refusing to issue a ST to NI.

 

I'd certainly hate to be before a court where some on here were on the jury, as clearly some are prepared to issue the guilty verdict without having heard the case for the defence.

 

Oh and sorry to tell you that you're wrong yet again, but I've never spoken to NI in my life despite seeing him at plenty of games over the years. Don't dislike NC, think he's done a lot of good and overall I expect Saints to be a success under his tenure, however I fail to understand why some seem to think he walks on water and can do no wrong?

[Saint_clark]

Other than this the only gripe I have is that little explanation was given for decisions. For instance the removal of the season ticket installments if it had been explained as it was at the season ticket dinners (putting in a new system it will be back for next season) would have caused a lot less irritation. Having said that, supposedly Cortese has acknowledged this and I am hopeful that should decisions like this be taken in future, that they will be explained properly (although I am still waiting for an explanation as to why there is no solent forum despite cortese saying at one of the dinners he was eager to have one.)

 

As you said, Cortese acknowledged in the interview he did that the club hasn't been very good at communicating with the press/fans.

And if you're worried about the fans forum, have you tried emailing or calling the club?

[hypochondriac]

Everyone agrees that an explanation should be provided. But some of us aren't going to condemn the club until we hear the reason...or until no reason is given.

 

Clearly not everyone agrees that an explanation should be provided as evidenced by this thread. To those who aren't condemning the club, as I have already said to trousers on this thread that is fair enough. I do wonder how long Nick should wait though before we are allowed to criticise the club. Clearly they aren't going to give him an explanation and I wish they would, even if it was only 'we think you are a c*ck.' An explanation should be given and to not give one, even privately to Nick and ask him not to comment publicly, is out of order IMO.

[Wes Tender]

I think some of the things Cortese has done are very good and plenty not so good and I will criticise him accordingly. Please explain to me how me doing this has any detrimental effect on Southampton Football Club?

 

So, easy to see your perspective on things. Some things good, plenty not so good. So the scales are tipped against him, eh?

 

But of course, no sensible person would think so, as the "few" good things include pursuading Markus Liebherr to buy us, whereas the "plenty of not so good things" include rather petty little things, like this matter.

 

Where did I say that criticism of the club was detrimental? My reply was to docker-p who seems to believe that getting rid of Cortese would be best for the club. I'm sure that docker will be happy for you to respond on his behalf. Firstly, he seems confident that if Cortese went, the Liebherrs would remain, which I have my doubts about. Then he says that Cortese should be replaced with a Chairman experienced in running a football club. Well, of course all Chairmen started with nil experience at the beginning, but the last one we had here brought in with experience was Hone. Happy with that, was docker?

 

As an aside, I suspect that docker's agenda commenced when Cortese dared to swap his beloved stripes for the sash and it really must gall him that in a poll, half of the fans prefer it.

[Saint_clark]

Clearly not everyone agrees that an explanation should be provided as evidenced by this thread. To those who aren't condemning the club, as I have already said to trousers on this thread that is fair enough. I do wonder how long Nick should wait though before we are allowed to criticise the club. Clearly they aren't going to give him an explanation and I wish they would, even if it was only 'we think you are a c*ck.' An explanation should be given and to not give one, even privately to Nick and ask him not to comment publicly, is out of order IMO.

 

Well if this happens we'll never know anyway...

[hypochondriac]

As you said, Cortese acknowledged in the interview he did that the club hasn't been very good at communicating with the press/fans.

And if you're worried about the fans forum, have you tried emailing or calling the club?

 

I emailled the club a while ago and was told that no date had been set for the fans forum. I asked my friend who works at solent last week (when I found his contact details) and he told me there would not be one this year. I'm disappointed by the club if that is the case and I feel that at the very least this should have been communicated to the fans rather than just ignoring it.

[Kingsland Nick]

Can't believe this thread is still going. has anyone actually considered that SFC are not willing to make public the reason for not allowing NI to purchase a season ticket because they feel it would be rather embarrassing for Nick? I have no idea what has happened, but maybe they feel the reason would not be good for Nick in the public domain. I don't see (hear) NI making a huge issue of this publicly, perhaps he really doesn't know why he isn't being sold a ST, but then again maybe it would be disadvantageous to him for the real reason to be made public. No-one other than Nick or Nic know the real reasons yet this forum continues to debate something we have no knowledge of and accuse everybody of things we know nothing about. Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fig why someone who represents no-one is refused a ST, but is still allowed to attend games, but I do find it annoying that people are prepared to drag the name of SFC through the mud without real knowledge of the facts.

 

SFC was not just refusing to make public the reason, it also refused to give any reason to the IFO, despite a promise that it would be kept confidential.

It is disappointing that Cortese has allowed the name of SFC to be dragged through the mud by not defending the club against Illingsworth's complaint, even though he knew (or should have known) that the IFO's decisions are made public.

[hypochondriac]

Well if this happens we'll never know anyway...

 

He could say something like the matter is now sorted and I don't want to elaborate further (also it would be obvious as he will have a season ticket.) Anyway it isn't about everyone knowing, it is about the club doing what is right and properly communicating their decisions to the fans.

[Sour Mash]

So, easy to see your perspective on things. Some things good, plenty not so good. So the scales are tipped against him, eh?

 

But of course, no sensible person would think so, as the "few" good things include pursuading Markus Liebherr to buy us, whereas the "plenty of not so good things" include rather petty little things, like this matter.

 

Where did I say that criticism of the club was detrimental? My reply was to docker-p who seems to believe that getting rid of Cortese would be best for the club. I'm sure that docker will be happy for you to respond on his behalf. Firstly, he seems confident that if Cortese went, the Liebherrs would remain, which I have my doubts about. Then he says that Cortese should be replaced with a Chairman experienced in running a football club. Well, of course all Chairmen started with nil experience at the beginning, but the last one we had here brought in with experience was Hone. Happy with that, was docker?

 

As an aside, I suspect that docker's agenda commenced when Cortese dared to swap his beloved stripes for the sash and it really must gall him that in a poll, half of the fans prefer it.

 

Well if I misinterpreted your comments re criticism of the club being detrimental, then I apologies. I can't comment for Docker-P. We'll just have to agree to disagree regarding Cortese's qualities.

[NickG]

Corteses modus oporandi is shockingly bad. He constantly screws up the easy things and then blames 'dark forces'. If he's so bothered by a couple of old players and an even older manager he shouldn't be running a football club.

Everybody was behind him to start with, he's only got himself to blame.

What I think would be best for SFC is for the Liebherr family to take an active interest in the club, get rid of Clotese and get in a CEO with experience of running a football club.

 

He should as he has us heading in the right direction, on and off the field, for the first time in years.

[NickG]

Do you know what a criminal court's usual reaction is to a defendant continually going "no comment"? Do you know what they usually infer from that?

 

infer but not find guilt based on it

[Gingeletiss]

Oh please I think you're trying a little too hard to excuse the club.

 

Oh please! I think you are trying a little too hard to run the CEO of our club down..........not for the first time I might add.

[Sour Mash]

infer but not find guilt based on it

 

Quite, they don't base guilt, but a clear inference can be made as to why the opportunity wasn't taken to present their side of the story when given the chance.

[trousers]

Quite, they don't base guilt, but a clear inference can be made as to why the opportunity wasn't taken to present their side of the story when given the chance.

 

Ok, ok....I know....it's Wikipedia....but.....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence

Right to silence

 

The right to remain silent is a legal right of any person. This right is recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems.

 

The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned.

 

The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole.

[solentstars]

This is jusr ridiculous and I see now more than ever that certain people will defend the club over anything. I think that generally people who are sensible agree that someone who is refused a season ticket at the very least deserves an explanation. I would say that whoever it was who had been denied a ticket.

 

i agree banning a fan who has a been a season ticket for 30 years is disgusting,we are all saints fans .cortese f ucked up big time over this petty his attitude over this matter and it has shown with this judgement.

[Saint_clark]

i agree banning a fan who has a been a season ticket for 30 years is disgusting,we are all saints fans .cortese f ucked up big time over this petty his attitude over this matter and it has shown with this judgement.

 

He is not banned.

[Frank's cousin]

If we were struggling mid table, had poor attendances and no future, but had the most communicative chairman in the world, wh=ould we be happy? FFS, why the need for some sort of constant hand holding? Are soem of you not able to survive day in day out without knowing everything about the club and its business? NOt got anything else in your lives to keep you busy... Jeez... I just cant believ some people - its as if some of you are actually getting a boner every time you hear something negative and have a little bit of ammo to have a go at the club?

 

FFS, at least be feckin honest about it - state catagorically teh reasons why you seem to enjoy being able to have a verbal go at NC - stop pretending and let us hear you reasons - not some **** about you not the ST installment plan or lack of communication - that is feckin trivial and unimportant compared to what is happening on the pitch - FWIW I think some fans have a problem with any style of club ownership and chairmanship that is not old school gentlemen and has the fanbase dictating policy - in effect they will never be happy even if we do win teh feckin CL one day - because we were not told in the right way that we get promoted and have success...

 

.., its no surprize that most of those complaining every five minutes and crying about how badly fans are 'being treated' are the same names who were so convinced that Wilde and Crouch and tehir fan friendly bulsheidt was the way forward for a secure future, that then saw pinnacle as the best option because Matt was involved ....

 

... NIck is a decent bloke, who cares about the club, but he shoots from the hip in the public eye... we know that club dont like that, so why did he do it? Naive I'm affraid.... as for bashing everything NC does at the slightest opportunity? Those who do that, as said at least be honest and admit that your egos are just brusied because the club does not suck up to you at every turn... and listen to your 'demands'

 

We get promoted, have success, have a future, play good football... what is not to feckin like?

[Sour Mash]

Ok, ok....I know....it's Wikipedia....but.....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence

Right to silence

 

The right to remain silent is a legal right of any person. This right is recognized, explicitly or by convention, in many of the world's legal systems.

 

The right covers a number of issues centered around the right of the accused or the defendant to refuse to comment or provide an answer when questioned, either prior to or during legal proceedings in a court of law. This can be the right to avoid self-incrimination or the right to remain silent when questioned.

 

The right usually includes the provision that adverse comments or inferences cannot be made by the judge or jury regarding the refusal by a defendant to answer questions before or during a trial, hearing or any other legal proceeding. This right constitutes only a small part of the defendant's rights as a whole.

 

Well, we're obviously going right off on a tangent here, but I can assure you that's wrong. Seen plenty of cases where the defendent's continued use of their right to silence has been used by the prosecution to infer that what they are now deciding to tell the court, isn't entirely true.

[hypochondriac]

If we were struggling mid table, had poor attendances and no future, but had the most communicative chairman in the world, wh=ould we be happy? FFS, why the need for some sort of constant hand holding? Are soem of you not able to survive day in day out without knowing everything about the club and its business? NOt got anything else in your lives to keep you busy... Jeez... I just cant believ some people - its as if some of you are actually getting a boner every time you hear something negative and have a little bit of ammo to have a go at the club?

 

I'm not sure why you think we have to have one or the other. Personally I would like a successful club which also communicates well with the fans. As I said though Cortese acknowledged this is an area he needs to work on and I am hoping we will not have a situation like some we have had this year again.

 

FFS, at least be feckin honest about it - state catagorically teh reasons why you seem to enjoy being able to have a verbal go at NC - stop pretending and let us hear you reasons - not some **** about you not the ST installment plan or lack of communication - that is feckin trivial and unimportant compared to what is happening on the pitch - FWIW I think some fans have a problem with any style of club ownership and chairmanship that is not old school gentlemen and has the fanbase dictating policy - in effect they will never be happy even if we do win teh feckin CL one day - because we were not told in the right way that we get promoted and have success...

 

I can only speak for myself but it is irritating that the club seems above criticism to some and that if you say anything which you feel could be improved you are suddenly villified or told not to worry as the big things are being sorted out. Why is it not possible to be delighted about most areas of club policy but to also criticise the 'less important things' as you put it when you feel there is a valid criticism?

 

.., its no surprize that most of those complaining every five minutes and crying about how badly fans are 'being treated' are the same names who were so convinced that Wilde and Crouch and tehir fan friendly bulsheidt was the way forward for a secure future, that then saw pinnacle as the best option because Matt was involved ....

 

I see no evidence of this and think it is one of those sweeping statements made on here from time to time.

 

... NIck is a decent bloke, who cares about the club, but he shoots from the hip in the public eye... we know that club dont like that, so why did he do it? Naive I'm affraid.... as for bashing everything NC does at the slightest opportunity? Those who do that, as said at least be honest and admit that your egos are just brusied because the club does not suck up to you at every turn... and listen to your 'demands'

 

So now you are suggesting that individuals should only write supportive things about the club and that any criticsm should be met with removal of a season ticket should the club wish? In effect you are saying it is Nick's fault for criticising the club publically? That's a big statement to make.

 

We get promoted, have success, have a future, play good football... what is not to feckin like?

 

I'm not sure you realise that it is entirely possible to be totally supportive of the team and most decisions made by management whilst also expressing criticism and reservations about some of the smaller things which down the line could potentially evolve into something bigger.

[JRM]

Nick was a loyal saints fan long before Cortese was here, and will remain a loyal saints fan long after cortese leaves.

I do not know him, but i believe it is a very sad day for any football club to refuse to sell a ticket to someone who has spent so many years following our team just because he dares to question decisions made and it is a real shame other fans cannot see that.

interestingly, i know who some of the posters are on here and the ones who are reflective and critical of the clubs treatment are also the ones who i know go regularly home and away. perhaps it means more to us to support a fellow fan who has been poorly treated by the club, rather than just look at "well if we get promoted who cares".

[aintforever]

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with some of the clubs decisions Frank, just like if we question Adkins' decisions - doesn't mean we are unhappy with him as manager or want him sacked. Just means we disagree.

 

I am more than happy with Cortese, what he and the Leibherr's have done is fantastic. I wouldn't want any other owners. Still think fans shouldn't be refused a season ticket for what they say though.

[hypochondriac]

i agree banning a fan who has a been a season ticket for 30 years is disgusting,we are all saints fans .cortese f ucked up big time over this petty his attitude over this matter and it has shown with this judgement.

 

I can't comment on that as I don't know all the answers. What I do know is that not giving an explanation is wrong. That's the issue, nothing at all to do with Nick or Cortese.

[jam]

Well, we're obviously going right off on a tangent here, but I can assure you that's wrong. Seen plenty of cases where the defendent's continued use of their right to silence has been used by the prosecution to infer that what they are now deciding to tell the court, isn't entirely true.

 

The assumption that silence is being used to avoid self-incrimination, you mean?

[Viking Warrior]

JRM

 

Im not sure what you mean by loyal saints fan?

 

"Nick was a loyal saints fan long before Cortese was here, and will remain a loyal saints fan long after cortese leaves".

 

NI was not that Loyal encouraging people to throw their season tickets in a bin and not purshase new ones for the next season

long before cortese was ever near the club . I do not class that as being loyal to the club . he supported SISA on this matter during the Dell Day regime

[um pahars]

What ever the greivance NI has with the season ticket issue . one thing is for sure he has and continues to divide the saints fans base Directly or indirectly). Interesting comments on the saintslist as well

 

I would argue that it is the actions of the Club that have brought about this sorry affair that has got all the tongues wagging.

[hypochondriac]

JRM

 

Im not sure what you mean by loyal saints fan?

 

"Nick was a loyal saints fan long before Cortese was here, and will remain a loyal saints fan long after cortese leaves".

 

NI was not that Loyal encouraging people to throw their season tickets in a bin and not purshase new ones for the next season

long before cortese was ever near the club . I do not class that as being loyal to the club . he supported SISA on this matter during the Dell Day regime

 

Again, as far as I understand this issue has nothing to do with Nick at all. I'm not even sure why his merits as a fan are being debated. If the club makes a decision which deprives a fan of a season ticket then that fan should get an explanation. IMO that is the only issue here.

[Gingeletiss]

Again, as far as I understand this issue has nothing to do with Nick at all. I'm not even sure why his merits as a fan are being debated. If the club makes a decision which deprives a fan of a season ticket then that fan should get an explanation. IMO that is the only issue here.

 

You truely make me laugh Hypo, you make the above statement, whilst churning out post after post, discussing the merits of our Chairman. Which is it pal?

[hypochondriac]

You truely make me laugh Hypo, you make the above statement, whilst churning out post after post, discussing the merits of our Chairman. Which is it pal?

 

To my knowledge the only posts I have made about Cortese on this thread are in reply to saint clark who was making a statement specifically about Cortese which I replied to (feel free to point out other examples if you believe that not to be the case and I will apologise.) I accept that was slightly off topic but others were talk about Nick as if him being a tw*t in their eyes means that he is not entitled to an explanation whereas in my eyes you are entitled to one no matter who you are. That clear enough pal?

 

Edit: Just realised I also mentioned Cortese in my response to franks cousin but again that was a reply to his bit about the wider issue of fans criticising the cub and not the particular issue of Nick being denied a season ticket and an explanation which is where his merits as a fan are irrelevant.

Edited 4 February, 2011 by hypochondriac

[Sour Mash]

If we were struggling mid table, had poor attendances and no future, but had the most communicative chairman in the world, wh=ould we be happy? FFS, why the need for some sort of constant hand holding? Are soem of you not able to survive day in day out without knowing everything about the club and its business? NOt got anything else in your lives to keep you busy... Jeez... I just cant believ some people - its as if some of you are actually getting a boner every time you hear something negative and have a little bit of ammo to have a go at the club?

 

FFS, at least be feckin honest about it - state catagorically teh reasons why you seem to enjoy being able to have a verbal go at NC - stop pretending and let us hear you reasons - not some **** about you not the ST installment plan or lack of communication - that is feckin trivial and unimportant compared to what is happening on the pitch - FWIW I think some fans have a problem with any style of club ownership and chairmanship that is not old school gentlemen and has the fanbase dictating policy - in effect they will never be happy even if we do win teh feckin CL one day - because we were not told in the right way that we get promoted and have success...

 

.., its no surprize that most of those complaining every five minutes and crying about how badly fans are 'being treated' are the same names who were so convinced that Wilde and Crouch and tehir fan friendly bulsheidt was the way forward for a secure future, that then saw pinnacle as the best option because Matt was involved ....

 

... NIck is a decent bloke, who cares about the club, but he shoots from the hip in the public eye... we know that club dont like that, so why did he do it? Naive I'm affraid.... as for bashing everything NC does at the slightest opportunity? Those who do that, as said at least be honest and admit that your egos are just brusied because the club does not suck up to you at every turn... and listen to your 'demands'

 

We get promoted, have success, have a future, play good football... what is not to feckin like?

 

What a seriously weird post. Who exactly is that aimed at? I don't want to know every trivial detail of what happens at the club, I couldn't care less about the majority of stuff. Who is asking for "an old school gentlemen" style of club management? I don't see any examples of that here? I've said before I think NC has done a fair bit good and a fair bit wrong. Where we'll be in 5 to 10 years time, who knows? But if it hadn't escaped your attention we're currently in a play-off spot and not in the Champions League. If we're in the CL Final and people are still moaning or even comfortably in the Prem, then maybe you'll have a point. But even then, if along the way we f**k over life-long fans then no I won't be happy. Football is about more than just how many games you win or how many trophies are in your cabinet. Its why so many long-serving Chelsea fans no longer enjoy going to Stamford Bridge. Or why so many Man Utd fans find FCUM appealing. But going by your post, unfortunately I don't think you'll get that.

[Viking Warrior]

I dont have a problem with NI as a fan as I have already mentioned hypo but if you should from the hip spouting various comments then you are prone to shot at. you do not see a sniper giving their position away. occassional it might be prudent to be a little more discreet when making comments in public

 

they can be misinterpreted . a bit like this forum I guess

[Sour Mash]

The assumption that silence is being used to avoid self-incrimination, you mean?

 

Not quite, but don't worry, we've gone too far off already on this one.

[JustMike]

how do we know that no explanation has been given. It's only Nicks word that we have on it tbf

[hypochondriac]

how do we know that no explanation has been given. It's only Nicks word that we have on it tbf

 

I find it highly unlikely he would take as far as he has with no explanation. What on earth would he have to gain?

[hypochondriac]

I dont have a problem with NI as a fan as I have already mentioned hypo but if you should from the hip spouting various comments then you are prone to shot at. you do not see a sniper giving their position away. occassional it might be prudent to be a little more discreet when making comments in public

 

they can be misinterpreted . a bit like this forum I guess

 

And I have no problem with him being denied a season ticket if it was for a valid reason. He is still entitled to an explanation though, denying him one is surely wrong.

[um pahars]

Everyone agrees that an explanation should be provided. But some of us aren't going to condemn the club until we hear the reason...or until no reason is given.

 

Can we criticise the Club for the second of the two issues considered by the IFO, namely "the way the complaint was handled.".

On this the IFO report:

"The latter is fairly straightforward ........... It is patently obvious that Southampton failed to fulfil its Charter pledges, either in the timescale of its indirect response or in explaining the reasons for its actions. The way it handled this complaint hardly reflects the statement on the Club website that “listening to our supporters is vital…and we are taking this process very seriously”.

" The IFO finds that the Club was in breach of its Charter in the handling of this complaint and recommends that the Club apologises to the complainant and explains to the Football League how it proposes to uphold its Charter in the future."

[Sour Mash]

how do we know that no explanation has been given. It's only Nicks word that we have on it tbf

 

You haven't bothered reading any of this thread have you? Or the IFO judgement?

[St Marco]

Is it just me or does this thread seem to have gone the way of those threads in the summer where people are really just using this as an excuse to take another pop at Cortese?

[um pahars]

how do we know that no explanation has been given. It's only Nicks word that we have on it tbf

 

Well actually the IFO report states,

 

"The complainant ...... has never had a substantive reply from Southampton FC."

Wouldn't have thought they would put that there if he has received a reply.

"The Club had by no means explained its actions even to the Football League"

So the league never got an explanation either.

"Despite this reassurance that “Chatham House rules” would apply, the officials could not explain to the IFO’s satisfaction why the Club had taken the action"

Neither did the IFO get a direct answer either.

Furthermore,

"The IFO enquired why no reason had been given to the complainant and suggested that, even at this late date, a letter could be sent to the complainant stating in general terms why the Club, possibly temporarily, had chosen not to extend to the complainant the privileges associated with season ticket ownership. This would at least address one part of the complaint, that no communication had been sent to the complainant explaining why he was subject to the season ticket restriction. Club officials agreed to consider this option. "

Which clears up that the Club have yet to communicate to NI (or anyone else) their reasons for doing so.

 

 

Your point has been raised by a few people now, and all I can suggest is that people read the full report as the report negates some of the suggestions that are being put forward on this thread.

[Gingeletiss]

You haven't bothered reading any of this thread have you? Or the IFO judgement?

 

TBF, your only making assumptions based on guesswork. No-one knows on here, why he was refused renewal of his season ticket, and opinions differ as to whether he deserves an explaination. But believe me, I have been in a myrid of situations, where no explaination has been given, it happens today in my job. That is a fact of life.

[Deppo]

THE SAINTS TRUST

 

1. Who are they?

2. How many of them are there?

3. What do they do?

 

Because I for one dont know there current status. Historically? yes. but currently?

 

I don't know who they are but I am sure they are both doing sterling work.

[Sour Mash]

TBF, your only making assumptions based on guesswork. No-one knows on here, why he was refused renewal of his season ticket, and opinions differ as to whether he deserves an explaination. But believe me, I have been in a myrid of situations, where no explaination has been given, it happens today in my job. That is a fact of life.

 

What assumptions have I made? If a Saints fan is denied the right to be allowed to buy a season ticket, as an absolute MINIMUM he should be given an explanation as to why. I can't believe that people don't at least agree with that point! Are you honestly telling me you would not want to know why? Would you at least want an explanation, yes or no?

[hypochondriac]

Is it just me or does this thread seem to have gone the way of those threads in the summer where people are really just using this as an excuse to take another pop at Cortese?

 

This thread has nothing to do with Cortese, it's to do with Nick as a fan being entitled to a reply and the club being in breach of its club charter.

[hypochondriac]

What assumptions have I made? If a Saints fan is denied the right to be allowed to buy a season ticket, as an absolute MINIMUM he should be given an explanation as to why. I can't believe that people don't at least agree with that point! Are you honestly telling me you would not want to know why? Would you at least want an explanation, yes or no?

 

I actually think it is amazing that people can argue this point. It amazes me seriously.

[St Marco]

This thread has nothing to do with Cortese, it's to do with Nick as a fan being entitled to a reply and the club being in breach of its club charter.

 

Then why did you say

 

"supposedly Cortese has acknowledged this and I am hopeful that should decisions like this be taken in future, that they will be explained properly (although I am still waiting for an explanation as to why there is no solent forum despite cortese saying at one of the dinners he was eager to have one."

 

Only a few posts ago?

 

What has that got to do with a Saints fan not being given a ticket? Sounds like a pop at Cortese to me?

[um pahars]

I must admit, I find the judgement (or award, or decision, or whatever it is) very confusing.

 

I said something similar in my first post on this thread, as like many quasi legal rulings, some of the language, terminology and syntax can be hard work. My thoughts on your specific points would be:

 

I find it hard to reconcile:

 

"The IFO operates a system of non-binding arbitration."

with

"the adjudication of the IFO is final and there is no right of appeal against IFO findings."

 

I read this that there is no appeal against the findings of the report and whatever its conclusions are then those conclusions have to recorded as being final. However, due the limitations on its powers it does not have ability to make any of its recommendations binding. Don't see any dichotomy there, they are two distinct issues.

 

and:

 

"The IFO must make clear at the outset that he has received full cooperation from ... Southampton FC."

with

"Despite a rigorous investigation, the IFO has been unable to clarify fully what has been going on."

 

I think they are more than happy to say that they were given access to the Club Officials who co-operated with them. I wouldn't say that the failure to answer one question to the IFO's Satsifaction would be worthy of stating the Club did not co-operate in the investigation.

 

and, more importantly:

 

"the IFO recognises Southampton FC’s legal right to refuse to sell a ticket without having to give an explanation"

with

"The Club ... should now end the restriction and reinstate the complainant as a season ticket holder"

 

Once again I think the IFO are clearly recognising that whilst the Club does indeed have a legal right to refuse anyone, they also believe that this power should be exercised reasonably and in conformity with the good customer care philosophy extolled in the Club's Supporters' Charter. I think they are merely stating that if the Club is to have such a Charter (I think it's a pre-requisite of League membership), then it should be adhered to, and in their opinion the best resolution for this issue would be to withdraw the ban on purchasing a ST.

 

but I suppose that's what you get if you ask a history professor, with no experience of running a football club, for his opinion.

 

I have to say I do think this is somewhat below the belt. If we don't like the decision then let's have a pop at the court is a tad myopic. The IFO was established by the three main English footballing bodies, along with Government support, and this individual has 10 years experience of dealing with issues of this ilk, so not sure I agree with that cheap shot.