dune Posted 3 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2011 Nutshell mate. It is clear and obvious to everyone that the EDL are not against Islam per se. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot who has been swayed by the racist chanting and violence. A lot of people cannot say what they really think due to the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 3 February, 2011 Share Posted 3 February, 2011 (edited) As I said before, there has to be give and take if you are joining a foreign culture. The maintenance of tribal culture in and of itself isn't something worth fighting for. It's actually futile. Culture evolves. A hundred years ago, our culture determined that women weren't fit to vote. Spin forward to today, and the country goes nuclear because a football pundit suggests that a woman isn't fit to run the line. How do you decide what to protect? If we hold up your ideal, the right for all to practice their tribal or cultural traditions, the Ku Klux Klan would be piloting trollies around Walmart in full garb. Nazis could visit Auschwitz with swastikas out. Pompey fans would be free to smear their own sh*t on the palaces of the mighty. Granted, these are more extreme forms of tribal culture - but the point remains. Some things can be part of the culture of a subset of society, yet remain totally incompatible with the mainstream. We take it for granted, but a big part of our culture is the ability to assign some kind of visual identity to those around us, even if they are complete strangers. The burka robs us of that and a lot of people are uncomfortable with it. Worse, it anonymises Muslim women in those outside the Islamic community. I would feel that way about any similar outfit. I would not, for example, feel equally uneasy walking around a ninja-populated West Quay on a Saturday; more so if they were getting handy with the shurikens. It'd be my preference to ban pedestrians from wearing of any garment that covers the face. It is not the wearing of the garment across the face that is the issue, but how people are treated differently. In the 2004 cup game against popmey, it was particularly cold and I had a scarf across the bottom half of my face. I was section 60'd on my way to the ground. Would I have been section 60'd if I had a burka on? Probably not and therein lies the issue for me. How is it fair that I am treated differently for the 'crime' of partially covering my face (with good reason) whilst others would not be inconvenienced for covering their whole face. That is the issue with the militant islamists in Luton. They were alowed to incite racial hatred, with the police in full view who did nothing. If I was to protest in a similar manner in the centre of Chichester, no doubt I would be arrested. Had the lawmakers at the time dealt with this small handful of islamist nut jobs, perhaps the EDL wouldn't be here now. It is this feeling of unfairness that motivates people to act. I detected a groundswell of opinion 8-9 years ago in the 'lads' pubs around soton on match days where working class males felt they were being ****ed over by the establishment. Back then, the issue was with Eastern Block immigrants.... now that our polak friends have settled in well, it was only a matter of time before someone else would be the target, because at the end of the day, working class males are still being ****ed over. What better place to recruit ****ed off and potentially agressive working class males? FWIW, my view on the EDL is that they are a bunch of ex-hoolies that want a beer up with like minded people with the chance of a bit of a tear up without the consequences of playing up on match day - 2 years custodial for throwing a bottle top or rattling a fence. An EDL demo provides the situation for these people to act out their fantasies without the disproportionate use of the law to punish them. I feel sorry for the 'normal' muslims as they are in the firing line for the moronic actions of a few within their community, however I think they can do more within their own communities to extinguish the fundamentalist threat. Perhaps if they were to do this, the EDL would be defunct. The media no doubt have a part to play as the impression that is given is that the muslim community almost harbours or turns a bind eye to the nutjobs. I would like to see the muslim community do more to combat the nutjobs, but fear that the EDL make them more sympathetic to the nutjob cause. I don't know what the solution is to be honest, but unless someone acts soon, racial tensions will only get worse. Edited 3 February, 2011 by Johnny Bognor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 3 February, 2011 Share Posted 3 February, 2011 A lot of people cannot say what they really think due to the law. agree 100% mate. A lot of us have got a lot of things we would love to say about them Muslims, but it's best just to keep quiet (or at least be a bit cryptic!). Anyway, our day will come. Like Johnny says, racial tensions will only get worse (they're worse than they have ever been before, worse than the 50's and 60's and deinitely worse than the days of the NF) and then people like me and you will be there to restate the English values that once made us great. Let the lynchings begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 3 February, 2011 Share Posted 3 February, 2011 agree 100% mate. A lot of us have got a lot of things we would love to say about them Muslims, but it's best just to keep quiet (or at least be a bit cryptic!). Anyway, our day will come. Like Johnny says, racial tensions will only get worse (they're worse than they have ever been before, worse than the 50's and 60's and deinitely worse than the days of the NF) and then people like me and you will be there to restate the English values that once made us great. Let the lynchings begin. I didn't say they are the worst in history, merely that they will only get worse as time goes on. The relatively recent rise in the BNP and the exponential growth in the EDL suggests that things are getting worse and are perhaps the worst they have been in the last 20 years. I know you like to be funny (and sometimes you are) but there is always a risk of overdoing it......and not being funny anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2011 I didn't say they are the worst in history, merely that they will only get worse as time goes on. The relatively recent rise in the BNP and the exponential growth in the EDL suggests that things are getting worse and are perhaps the worst they have been in the last 20 years. I know you like to be funny (and sometimes you are) but there is always a risk of overdoing it......and not being funny anymore. To be fair the BNP are finnished, but UKIP are there and they are going gain momentum again as people see that the Conservatives aren't the saviours some thought they might be. Likewise the EDL will continue growing as a movement for a younger demographic. What we're seeing is the right wing getting its act togther and speaking for a very large percentage of people. You only have to look to the European election results to see that deep down we are a Conservative country despite many working class people ignorantly voting Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 3 February, 2011 Share Posted 3 February, 2011 I didn't say they are the worst in history, merely that they will only get worse as time goes on. The relatively recent rise in the BNP and the exponential growth in the EDL suggests that things are getting worse and are perhaps the worst they have been in the last 20 years. Cultural values and norms are elastic over time. Western society is about as liberal as it can get. At some point it will likely snap back. To me thats a bad thing, to others perhaps not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 3 February, 2011 Share Posted 3 February, 2011 I'm biased of course, but it was one of the best performances i've seen against Paxman. I'm sure it will have boosted EDL support. Biased or just blind....! If you thought that he came across with any credibility to the middle ground punters then you're sadley mistaken. As for Paxman, well I've rarely seen him so disinterested, as somebody else said he actually looked like he couldn't believe that your man was getting air time, especially alongside the Mubarak / Egypt headlines. If that was your big advertisment for the EDL, then I think most right minded people will probably steer clear, or at least do a little more research before commiting themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 3 February, 2011 Share Posted 3 February, 2011 They aren't after the support of right-minded people, clearly. They just want us thick ones that can't think for ourselves. We don't need right minded people to win this war against Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 4 February, 2011 Share Posted 4 February, 2011 A lot of people cannot say what they really think due to the law. You mean because of this Stanley. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2008/dec/16/racial-religious-hatred-act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 5 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 5 February, 2011 Cameron Gets Tough On Muslim Extremists David Cameron has signalled a tougher Government stance towards groups which promote Islamist extremism. The Prime Minister said the doctrine of multi-culturalism has failed during a speech in which he called for "muscular liberalism" in defence of Western values. He blamed the radicalisation of Muslim youths and the phenomenon of home-grown terrorism on a "hands-off tolerance" from the authorities. Ministers should refuse to share platforms or engage with groups that peddle separatist ideology, he said. Such groups should also be denied access to public money and barred from spreading their message in universities and prisons, he argued. Mr Cameron made his comments in a speech to a security conference in the German city of Munich. "Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," the Prime Minister said. http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/David-Cameron-Signals-Tougher-Stance-On-Islamic-Extremism-During-A-Speech-in-Munich-Germany/Article/201102115923432?lpos=Politics_News_Your_Way_Region_5&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15923432_David_Cameron_Signals_Tougher_Stance_On_Islamic_Extremism_During_A_Speech_in_Munich%2C_Germany_ I think he was refering to the EDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joensuu Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 I think he was refering to the EDL. I think not: "The EDL are terrible people, we would always keep these groups under review and if we needed to ban them, we would ban them or any groups which incite hatred." http://www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2010/05/06/david-cameron-makes-dash-to-west-midlands-97319-26385771/ [/Quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 To be fair the BNP are finnished, but UKIP are there and they are going gain momentum again as people see that the Conservatives aren't the saviours some thought they might be. Likewise the EDL will continue growing as a movement for a younger demographic. What we're seeing is the right wing getting its act togther and speaking for a very large percentage of people. You only have to look to the European election results to see that deep down we are a Conservative country despite many working class people ignorantly voting Labour. "Working class people ignorantly voting Labour?"You are having a laugh surely?The Labour party was created for working class people. The Tories always have and always will put the richest people first and do nothing for the average working class person. As for the UKIP party most people think they are a joke.They will never come out of the wilderness and get enough votes to be able to hold power in government.Also i predict that the EDL will go the way that the BNP and other racist parties have gone,hopefully out of exsistance,only to be remembered fondly by aging Nazi skinheads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor_Saint Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 You know, I've had a few reports on this thread already, but I think it's far better to let people dig their own hole in public than to censor this... But isn't that the point of reporting the post to have something done about it? It's more to do with the fact that there's no place for this on a football forum (There are many other sites where like people can stroke each others egos) where there are some younger generation who are impressionable and may be swayed by the drivel that the EDL are spouting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 To be fair the BNP are finnished, but UKIP are there and they are going gain momentum again as people see that the Conservatives aren't the saviours some thought they might be. Likewise the EDL will continue growing as a movement for a younger demographic. What we're seeing is the right wing getting its act togther and speaking for a very large percentage of people. You only have to look to the European election results to see that deep down we are a Conservative country despite many working class people ignorantly voting Labour. still preaching your facism polices stanley your lot will never get in power in this country. i thought you would be goose stepping in luton with your fellow traitors the edl bnp mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 5 February, 2011 Author Share Posted 5 February, 2011 I hope the saints lads had a good day at Luton on the way to the posh game. Not seen any reports yet but i'm very proud of you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor_Saint Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 I hope the saints lads had a good day at Luton on the way to the posh game. Not seen any reports yet but i'm very proud of you all. tw at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 5 February, 2011 Share Posted 5 February, 2011 Ok, think this has run it's course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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