What can we take forward from yesterday..

[alpine_saint]

..for the rest of our season ?

 

Whilst we all have our peckers up, including the team I reckon, there is still the minor issue that although we did well against Atkinson's....er....Ferguson's men, they are a footballing side, and there arent that many in this division. Just look at our last 2 league1 games.

 

Do we really have the nous to get the results against teams of obstructive hod-carriers ??

[NickG]

Morgan to have the confidence that he can control any game - he out Schole'ed Scholes.

[PaulGilchrist_76]

The team has to apply itself in every game and not pick and choose which matches they decide to play well in.

[madruss]

..for the rest of our season ?

 

Whilst we all have our peckers up, including the team I reckon, there is still the minor issue that although we did well against Atkinson's....er....Ferguson's men, they are a footballing side, and there arent that many in this division. Just look at our last 2 league1 games.

 

Do we really have the nous to get the results against teams of obstructive hod-carriers ??

 

Tuesday will be an excellent test of this. In the home fixture against Exeter, the score could easily have been 10-0, but they're a notoriously difficult team to beat at their own place. Being able to grind out a result at a place like Exeter is the difference between a league-winning team and a chasing-pack team

[Liquidshokk]

The work rate went up ten notches yesterday which is instantly recognisable when we play bigger teams. IMO they should be putting that amount of effort and concentration into every game here on and treating the likes of tranmere the same as man u.

 

We know they have it in them, they just need to learn to be consistent and just play like we did yesterday every game.

 

Problem is, man u attack.. League one scaredy cats don't..

[georgeweahscousin]

That Richard Chaplow is the bargain of the transfer window @ £50k? Along with Schneiderlin he made Gibson and Anderson look like right mugs yesterday.

 

I have been saying this all season, and I think yesterday supports it, that Hammond is no longer a first choice player for me.

[Liquidshokk]

That Richard Chaplow is the bargain of the transfer window @ £50k? Along with Schneiderlin he made Gibson and Anderson look like right mugs yesterday.

 

I have been saying this all season, and I think yesterday supports it, that Hammond is no longer a first choice player for me.

 

Absolutely. He wasn't missed at all yesterday.

[Saint Charlie]

Absolutely. He wasn't missed at all yesterday.

 

He is in the tighter games where you really need to dig in though.

[doddisalegend]

That Dan harding is still the best LB at the club and Dickson needs to learn to pass to his own team..........

[positivepete]

That Richard Chaplow is the bargain of the transfer window @ £50k? Along with Schneiderlin he made Gibson and Anderson look like right mugs yesterday.

 

I have been saying this all season, and I think yesterday supports it, that Hammond is no longer a first choice player for me.

 

Hammond may have a place this season, but it is difficult to see him stepping up a division, and it may be the same for Lambert. There is hope, I did not think Grant Holt would get a game at Norwich this season, and he has stepped up.

[JustMike]

we will need to imagine that every game is a cup game against Man Utd and show the same spirit. I still think that we may have nicked it yesterday had AL played.

[georgeweahscousin]

....also that we can play well without Lallana.

[VectisSaint]

What I saw yeaterday was that we will be OK on The Championship and we could even compete with lower end Prem teams, but we have a battle to get out of L1. When we have space and time we look excellent, but not so good when we are closed down and hassled and have to break down a 10 man defence. Our weakest area is up front. Lambert and Barnard especially looked out classed yesterday. I really don't know what has happened to Barnard, he has lost his touch & his confidence, Connolly would have been a better option against Manure on yesterday's evidence. Guly will be good when he just learns to look up and get his passes away more accurately.

[alpine_saint]

....also that we can play well without Lallana.

 

I hope this is an important lesson the team learnt yesterday. I also wondered after the final whistle if the Lallana thing was a state of mind for the players and that has now been corrected.

[Saint_clark]

....also that we can play well without Lallana.

 

This was clear anyway, some people just paid too much attention to the coincidence that we didn't win with him out the side.

[alpine_saint]

This was clear anyway, some people just paid too much attention to the coincidence that we didn't win with him out the side.

 

Thats rubbish. There are clear stats floating around to prove we had problems scoring and winning without him.

[supersonic]

Definately we can play without Lallana, with the formation yesterday it helped, With Morgan sitting infront of the back 4 (He was my MOTM yesterday), Guly behind the front 2 and Chaplow/AO-C out wide it could easily work, even if Alex goes (which I don't think he will)

 

we could even stick Guly up front and play Lallana in the hole

[Saint_clark]

Thats rubbish. There are clear stats floating around to prove we had problems scoring and winning without him.

 

All coincidence. We still created the same level of chances when he was out of the side as when he was in. There is no way that Lallana being out of the side made every other player in our team worse at sticking the ball in the net after the chance was created.

[Rebel]

That we lack pace - and don't have the killer instinct when we go forward - particularly on the break.

 

In Chaplow, Morgan, Oxlade and Lallana we have 4 premier quality players.

 

That we desperately need a young pacer striker - or two - with real quality if we are going to make the step up to the Championship - neither Barnard or Lambert looked good enough.

[Saint_clark]

That we lack pace - and don't have the killer instinct when we go forward - particularly on the break.

 

In Chaplow, Morgan, Oxlade and Lallana we have 4 premier quality players.

 

That we desperately need a young pacer striker - or two - with real quality if we are going to make the step up to the Championship - neither Barnard or Lambert looked good enough.

 

How can we take that forward from yesterday? And it's too early to be calling Chaplow and Morgan Prem quality IMO.

[Smirking_Saint]

Chaplow was good but no where near in the same bracket as how the full backs and especially Morgan played yesterday.

 

He controlled the midfield and made Gibson and Anderson look very average, its also worth noting that even though everyone around me was slagging Guly off i said we would look very average and wouldn't keep hold of the ball if he went off. This happened.

 

Guly was everywhere ghosting into positions and generally being a nuissance, all in all it was a great game and we made ourselves proud.

[Smirking_Saint]

Oh and we need to be more clinical infront of goal, i know they are prem quality but they had two half chances and made them count. We missed a couple of easy chances and when the ball was pinging around the box we seem to have no poacher to tuck it away, this isn't just confined to this match BTW, we havn't been making the most of our chances all season.

[The9]

That if we work hard we're the best team in this league by a bloody mile. And if we don't, some teams are going to beat us.

 

Ah, actually I think we already knew that.

[madruss]

All coincidence. We still created the same level of chances when he was out of the side as when he was in. There is no way that Lallana being out of the side made every other player in our team worse at sticking the ball in the net after the chance was created.

 

2 or 3 games could be dismissed as coincidence. Maybe at a stretch 5 or 6, but we've played 10 games without Lallana in the starting line-up. In those games, we've scored 0 and won 0.

 

A lot of that can be put down to the bad form of Lambert and Puncheon, but it's not just a mere coincidence that we create much fewer chances without AL in the team

[Saint_clark]

2 or 3 games could be dismissed as coincidence. Maybe at a stretch 5 or 6, but we've played 10 games without Lallana in the starting line-up. In those games, we've scored 0 and won 0.

 

A lot of that can be put down to the bad form of Lambert and Puncheon, but it's not just a mere coincidence that we create much fewer chances without AL in the team

 

We HAVEN'T created fewer chances. If we had, then I would agree with you that Lallanas absence was having an effect, but as I said you cannot possibly believe that him being on the pitch automatically makes everyone else better finishers - that's a ridiculous notion.

Tranmere loss 2-0; 15 shots on goal

Oldham won 6-0; 14 shots on goal.

[The9]

Also, we just scored in a game without Lallana, so at least update the stats.

 

And if we can score against Man United without him we can score against anyone...

[JustMike]

We HAVEN'T created fewer chances. If we had, then I would agree with you that Lallanas absence was having an effect, but as I said you cannot possibly believe that him being on the pitch automatically makes everyone else better finishers - that's a ridiculous notion.

Tranmere loss 2-0; 15 shots on goal

Oldham won 6-0; 14 shots on goal.

 

there is no doubt that with AL is the side the quality is much better. Take the Notts County game, 0 shots on target. Tranmere, how many of the 15 were on target? We need AL in the team / building / bus, it's as simple as that

[beatlesaint]

All coincidence. We still created the same level of chances when he was out of the side as when he was in. There is no way that Lallana being out of the side made every other player in our team worse at sticking the ball in the net after the chance was created.

 

Indeed, wasn't Lallana's absence that meant the ball didnt quite cross the line from Fonte against Notts County or that Davis would have a nightmare in goal at Tranmere.

[Saint_clark]

there is no doubt that with AL is the side the quality is much better. Take the Notts County game, 0 shots on target. Tranmere, how many of the 15 were on target? We need AL in the team / building / bus, it's as simple as that

 

There were shots on target for the Notts County game, those stats are buggered. How a header that is cleared off the line doesn't count is beyond me.

And out of the 15, 7 were on target.

Obviously we're a better side with Lallana in the team, it's just a pretty silly thing to say that he in any way effects the finishing ability of the rest of the team.

[alpine_saint]

Also, we just scored in a game without Lallana, so at least update the stats.

 

And if we can score against Man United without him we can score against anyone...

 

That was the point being made by georgeweahscousin, FFS.

[Turkish]

Chaplow was good but no where near in the same bracket as how the full backs and especially Morgan played yesterday.

 

He controlled the midfield and made Gibson and Anderson look very average, its also worth noting that even though everyone around me was slagging Guly off i said we would look very average and wouldn't keep hold of the ball if he went off. This happened.

 

Guly was everywhere ghosting into positions and generally being a nuissance, all in all it was a great game and we made ourselves proud.

 

He did this really well, always an outlet and got in some really good positions, his delivery was indifferent and gave the ball away a fair bit but he also did some really good things. he has clearly got a great football brain and intelligence. Unfortunately some of our fans dont seem to understand this and want him to run around at 100mph and play defence splitting balls everytime, unfortunately L1 level "flair" players aren't brilliant everytime they get the ball, otherwise they wouldn't be playing in L1.

[alpine_saint]

There were shots on target for the Notts County game, those stats are buggered. How a header that is cleared off the line doesn't count is beyond me.

And out of the 15, 7 were on target.

Obviously we're a better side with Lallana in the team, it's just a pretty silly thing to say that he in any way effects the finishing ability of the rest of the team.

 

What, so you think certain players dont have a lifting effect on the rest of the team ?

 

Sorry, that is nonsense.

[It's There]

On another point.I like the fact that the team are playing a varirty of systems, not just 442. It allows for greater flexibility in a match and has been one of the main criticisms of Saints over recent years.

[Turkish]

There were shots on target for the Notts County game, those stats are buggered. How a header that is cleared off the line doesn't count is beyond me.

And out of the 15, 7 were on target.

Obviously we're a better side with Lallana in the team, it's just a pretty silly thing to say that he in any way effects the finishing ability of the rest of the team.

 

I said this the other day, those stats were ridiculous, i remember us missing 4 good chances and had one off the line. I fully agree, any team at this level would be better with Lallana in it but he is not the reason we lost against Tranmere and drew with Notts County. We should have won both, it came down to defensive mistakes and bad finishing.

[Turkish]

What, so you think certain players dont have a lifting effect on the rest of the team ?

 

Sorry, that is nonsense.

 

So you think if Lallana was playing Jaidi would have headed in from 6 yards out instead of heading over? Or Puncheon would have stuck it in the top corner instead of blazing over?

[shurlock]

Glad we played 4-1-2-1-2 - been calling for it for a while. Shame punch is a gonner as he would have fitted perfectly in this system. Also allows us to start barny who's done nothing wong this season while getting the best out of guly/lallana in the hole.

[alpine_saint]

So you think if Lallana was playing Jaidi would have headed in from 6 yards out instead of heading over? Or Puncheon would have stuck it in the top corner instead of blazing over?

 

Maybe. It only needs an ounce more motivation or a tiny difference in level of focus.

 

How can you say it wouldnt have been different ?

[shurlock]

I said this the other day, those stats were ridiculous, i remember us missing 4 good chances and had one off the line. I fully agree, any team at this level would be better with Lallana in it but he is not the reason we lost against Tranmere and drew with Notts County. We should have won both, it came down to defensive mistakes and bad finishing.

 

Lallana might have made a difference against county -arguably he would have; but his absence was neither here or there for the Tranmere result. He might have allowed us to retain better possession of the ball but that wouldnt have been enough to compensate for the all the other areas we were sh ite.

[Liquidshokk]

Glad we played 4-1-2-1-2 - been calling for it for a while. Shame punch is a gonner as he would have fitted perfectly in this system. Also allows us to start barny who's done nothing wong this season while getting the best out of guly/lallana in the hole.

 

I was sat behind puncheon yesterday. Surprised he was there when he clearly couldn't give a stuff about saints. Was with his little nipper who may be a manc supporter though...

[NickG]

Thats rubbish. There are clear stats floating around to prove we had problems scoring and winning without him.

 

most of those stats, tbf, were from start of season when we were not doing well.

[The9]

That was the point being made by georgeweahscousin, FFS.

 

His point was that we played well without Lallana, my point was that we had now scored without him and the stats being used above were wrong, which is not the same thing.

[alpine_saint]

most of those stats, tbf, were from start of season when we were not doing well.

 

Supported by the last 2 league games. And how do you know Lallana returning from injury wasnt the catalyst that kick-started our season ?

[Turkish]

Maybe. It only needs an ounce more motivation or a tiny difference in level of focus.

 

How can you say it wouldnt have been different ?

 

How can another player being on the pitch, nothing to do with the move in question, make a 6ft 3inch, 35 year old ex PL and international centre back heading a cross from Dickson a foot lower? Can you explain that one to me please.

[alpine_saint]

His point was that we played well without Lallana, my point was that we had now scored without him and the stats being used above were wrong, which is not the same thing.

 

I suppose not, if you want to be a bit pedantic....

[The9]

most of those stats, tbf, were from start of season when we were not doing well.

 

Chicken and egg, that one. I'd say the poor results were due to lack of effort, but as Lallana's one of the players who always gives it his all you have to wonder if his presence would have raised the effort and improved us overall a bit, irrespective of his individual creativity. Motivation's a funny thing.

[alpine_saint]

How can another player being on the pitch, nothing to do with the move in question, make a 6ft 3inch, 35 year old ex PL and international centre back heading a cross from Dickson a foot lower? Can you explain that one to me please.

 

Yes, I referred to the team being lifted by a certain players presence.

 

You saying that Giggs or Nani didnt lift Manyoo last night ?

 

The likes of Gascoigne or MLT didnt lift their teams ?

 

What about the likes of Maradonna ?

 

FFS, read the posts and try to digest them before composing your sneering responses.

[Window Cleaner]

Chaplow was good but no where near in the same bracket as how the full backs and especially Morgan played yesterday.

 

He controlled the midfield and made Gibson and Anderson look very average, its also worth noting that even though everyone around me was slagging Guly off i said we would look very average and wouldn't keep hold of the ball if he went off. This happened.

 

Guly was everywhere ghosting into positions and generally being a nuissance, all in all it was a great game and we made ourselves proud.

 

Indeed Chaplow was good yesterday but he burnt himself out in about 50 minutes,whether that's a reflection on some of the others in the side or that he doesn't know how to pace himself I couldn't say but as we had no viable alternative on the bench and Man U had the heavy artillery in reserve it caused problems.The France 4 commentators remarked on it by saying that because he was everywhere early on he ended up by being nowhere.We really needed an effective sub for him on 60 minutes. Now I thought Ox was pretty insignificant on the game, perhaps he was playing too deep though but if anyone offered me a lot of money for him on yesterday's performance I'd fall over myself to take it.Maybe a great talent but showed very little of it yesterday. Thought Harding was great, but then I always have, that he has the occasional bad game is a problem cos when they're both on full tilt Dickson just isn't in his league. Once again to win this we needed a bit more clinical finishing,as we often do, but at the end of the day we put on a great show and we probably couldn't afford to win anyway because of our fixture backlog and the points gap at the top of our league.

[alpine_saint]

Chicken and egg, that one. I'd say the poor results were due to lack of effort, but as Lallana's one of the players who always gives it his all you have to wonder if his presence would have raised the effort and improved us overall a bit, irrespective of his individual creativity. Motivation's a funny thing.

 

There you go Turkish.

[Turkish]

Lallana might have made a difference against county -arguably he would have; but his absence was neither here or there for the Tranmere result. He might have allowed us to retain better possession of the ball but that wouldnt have been enough to compensate for the all the other areas we were sh ite.

 

I dont doubt he would, but him not being there was not the reason we missed relatively simple chances. If Lallana had been playing would GUlly have squared to Chamberlain to put it into an empty net instead of shooting? Would Jaidi have headed a foot lower? Would Puncheon have smashed it into the roof of the net instead of over the top? We created chances and should have won, Lallana playing or not playing isn't the difference between another player missing or sticking it in the net.

[alpine_saint]

I dont doubt he would, but him not being there was not the reason we missed relatively simple chances. If Lallana had been playing would GUlly have squared to Chamberlain to put it into an empty net instead of shooting? Would Jaidi have headed a foot lower? Would Puncheon have smashed it into the roof of the net instead of over the top? We created chances and should have won, Lallana playing or not playing isn't the difference between another player missing or sticking it in the net.

 

Yep, just repeating yourself and ignore the posts.