University Graduates and Unemployment

[Verbal]

this.

 

..and the fact we gave all our jobs to poland

 

And this government will continue to give.

 

Want to hear a little scandal?

 

As more and more students in the UK re dissuaded by the combination of higher fees and poorer employment prospects, their places are being increasingly taken up especially by East European students. The reason is that they get a first-rate university education and, because they're in the EU, can apply for UK-funded student loans on exactly the same terms as UK students. The scandal isn't that more EU students will fill places; it's that this government has designed a system that will rob the UK taxpayer of billions. EU students individually in receipt of upwards of £50,000 in UK government loans will, on the whole, not pay back - - because a) it's hard to chase the money; and b) these students come from much lower-wage economies, where the £21,000 floor before you HAVE to repay will in many cases simply never be reached.

 

So this coalition has somewhat brilliantly exported education, training and jobs at HUGE expense to UK taxpayers.

[buctootim]

And this government will continue to give.

 

Want to hear a little scandal?

 

As more and more students in the UK re dissuaded by the combination of higher fees and poorer employment prospects, their places are being increasingly taken up especially by East European students. The reason is that they get a first-rate university education and, because they're in the EU, can apply for UK-funded student loans on exactly the same terms as UK students. The scandal isn't that more EU students will fill places; it's that this government has designed a system that will rob the UK taxpayer of billions. EU students individually in receipt of upwards of £50,000 in UK government loans will, on the whole, not pay back - - because a) it's hard to chase the money; and b) these students come from much lower-wage economies, where the £21,000 floor before you HAVE to repay will in many cases simply never be reached.

 

So this coalition has somewhat brilliantly exported education, training and jobs at HUGE expense to UK taxpayers.

 

That, in all honesty, is probably the first post on this board that I am genuinely dumbfounded by. Polish students would be mad to not take advantage of a free / paid for education and we are crazy to let them.

[benjii]

And this government will continue to give.

 

Want to hear a little scandal?

 

As more and more students in the UK re dissuaded by the combination of higher fees and poorer employment prospects, their places are being increasingly taken up especially by East European students. The reason is that they get a first-rate university education and, because they're in the EU, can apply for UK-funded student loans on exactly the same terms as UK students. The scandal isn't that more EU students will fill places; it's that this government has designed a system that will rob the UK taxpayer of billions. EU students individually in receipt of upwards of £50,000 in UK government loans will, on the whole, not pay back - - because a) it's hard to chase the money; and b) these students come from much lower-wage economies, where the £21,000 floor before you HAVE to repay will in many cases simply never be reached.

 

So this coalition has somewhat brilliantly exported education, training and jobs at HUGE expense to UK taxpayers.

 

How is that the government's fault? Surely the non-discrimination principle is part of EU law and would apply to any fee-funded system. And we know where fees came from originally...

[Verbal]

How is that the government's fault? Surely the non-discrimination principle is part of EU law and would apply to any fee-funded system. And we know where fees came from originally...

 

For the simple reason that by whacking up the fees to such screaming levels, they are funnelling taxpayers' money abroad. Had we kept a system that, say, cut student numbers and maintained a university system through the MUCH CHEAPER route of government grants, we wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation. The higher the fees - and remember the government has TREBLED them - the more flows abroad. The higher the qualifying salary level, the more East European students do NOT have to pay back. so entirely the government's fault for adopting a cretinous neo-liberal approach rather than dealing directly with the problem. Who these days needs a solution that costs FAR MORE money?!

Edited 30 January, 2011 by Verbal

[bridge too far]

For the simple reason that by whacking up the fees to such screaming levels, they are funnelling taxpayers' money abroad. Had we kept a system that, say, cut student numbers and maintained a university system through the MUCH CHEAPER route of government grants, we wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation

 

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've posted above, but I seem to recall that an increasing number of British (or, more probably, English) students are applying to European Universities because it's cheaper. I'm sure some of the Dutch universities were getting a large number of applicants. (oh how I miss that Gallic shrug smiley)

[Verbal]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've posted above, but I seem to recall that an increasing number of British (or, more probably, English) students are applying to European Universities because it's cheaper. I'm sure some of the Dutch universities were getting a large number of applicants. (oh how I miss that Gallic shrug smiley)

 

The big difference being that European university systems do not work with loans an ANYTHING LIKE the scale of the UK. Many are free, and so there are no loans for students to apply for. THAT's why European universities are cheaper to UK students. There is next to no flow of european tax funds into British students' pockets

[benjii]

For the simple reason that by whacking up the fees to such screaming levels, they are funnelling taxpayers' money abroad. Had we kept a system that, say, cut student numbers and maintained a university system through the MUCH CHEAPER route of government grants, we wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation. The higher the fees - and remember the government has TREBLED them - the more flows abroad. The higher the qualifying salary level, the more East European students do NOT have to pay back. so entirely the government's fault for adopting a cretinous neo-liberal approach rather than dealing directly with the problem. Who these days needs a solution that costs FAR MORE money?!

 

They've trebled the cap, not prescribed that all fees must treble.

 

It is a tricky situation. Maybe we would be better off if Labour hadn't opened the door to fees.

[Verbal]

They've trebled the cap, not prescribed that all fees must treble.

 

It is a tricky situation. Maybe we would be better off if Labour hadn't opened the door to fees.

 

So are you so much of a Tory apologist that this doesn't register with you? Of course it'd be better to have no fees. But don't you feel even a little bit conned that this lot have devised a system that shovels your tax pounds straight out the door to Eastern Europe - and also actually raises the overall cost to the Exchequer of the university system itself?

 

Oh, and EVERY university of any reputation in the UK will charge the full £9,000. Don't kid yourself that it'll just be Oxbridge.

Edited 30 January, 2011 by Verbal

[benjii]

TBH I'd rather taxes went to hardworking foreigners than lay-about scum Brits. There you go, you are cordially invited to turn to the appropriate page of the Tweed Blazer and Elbow Patch iPad Toting Bourgeoise Faux-Intellectual Handbook of Belligerent Diatribe for the Perpetually Menstrual and Bitter.

 

Knock yourself out.

[Verbal]

TBH I'd rather taxes went to hardworking foreigners than lay-about scum Brits. There you go, you are cordially invited to turn to the appropriate page of the Tweed Blazer and Elbow Patch iPad Toting Bourgeoise Faux-Intellectual Handbook of Belligerent Diatribe for the Perpetually Menstrual and Bitter.

 

Knock yourself out.

 

Good grief. How pathetic. Why don't you grow up?

 

It does seem that when you scratch the surface, a FEROCIOUS anti-intectualism wells up here - and is unleashed on students or anyone whom, patently, is cleverer, more energetic, ambitious, than the grumbling naysayers who prefer not to confront the obvious lunacy of their ossified prejudices.

 

I was merely making a point about how taxes will now be winging their way out to the tunes of billions as a result of this change - and that the university system as a whole just got a whole lot more expensive. All in the era of cuts. What it reveals is that the demand for 'cuts' (ie increases in this instance) are as much driven by ideology as anything.

Edited 30 January, 2011 by Verbal

[Johnny Bognor]

So are you so much of a Tory apologist that this doesn't register with you? Of course it'd be better to have no fees. But don't you feel even a little bit conned that this lot have devised a system that shovels your tax pounds straight out the door to Eastern Europe - and also actually raises the overall cost to the Exchequer of the university system itself?

 

Oh, and EVERY university of any reputation in the UK will charge the full £9,000. Don't kid yourself that it'll just be Oxbridge.

 

Didn't hear you make an issue of the EU, or are those tax pounds being shovelled out the door (for the benefit of French farmers) OK with you?

Edited 30 January, 2011 by Johnny Bognor

[Verbal]

Didn't hear you make an issue of the EU, or are those tax pounds being shovelled out the door (for the benefit of French farmers) are OK with you?

 

You didn't? I don't think there's been a French farmers thread on here recently. But just for you, no - I personally don't like the way EU budgets are STILL distorted by farm subsidies. so why does an avowedly anti-european bunch make such a screw-up over fees?