If you really think we don't need to buy...

[Saint Fan CaM]

can we afford to pay these players and the new ones coming in?

 

Possibly not - it's a good point. However, the real question is, can we afford not to get promoted this season? I would suggest not, so given the likelyhood that we will suffer greatly if we lose Lallana, Chaplow, Guly, Barnard, Hammond or Chambo for any appreciable amount of time, there is a strong arguement to say 1-2 astute signings could be starting to look critical.

[NickG]

Possibly not - it's a good point. However, the real question is, can we afford not to get promoted this season? I would suggest not, so given the likelyhood that we will suffer greatly if we lose Lallana, Chaplow, Guly, Barnard, Hammond or Chambo for any appreciable amount of time, there is a strong arguement to say 1-2 astute signings could be starting to look critical.

 

point is we don't have the info to make the judgement.

 

has it been suggested that Lallana and Hammond are out for the season? Adkins said expects them back sooner rather than later

[alpine_saint]

Your obession with me is becoming rather worrying. Sitting behind your PC all day everyday arguing with people on the internet about things you only have third hand knowledge of is not the answer Alps. Angrily and busily tapping away at your keyboard wont raise your heart rate enough for you to burn enough calories to fit into a normal sized replica shirt that you dream of. It's time to take a step back from the anger and bitterness that seems to encapsulate you everytime you see one of my posts. Maybe turn off the computer for a couple of days, put the 2 litre bottle of full fat coke back in the fridge, thrpow out the burgers and frozen pizza, seal up the multi pack bag of Mccoys crisps and get rid of the chocolate bars. It's time to get out and sample some of that Austrain countryside, pull on the trainers and get out there seeing a bit of the country you live in. You'll benifit from it, in fact it is scientically proven that you exercising can help you with this.....

Improved self-esteem and greater sense of self-reliance and self-confidence

Improved mental alertness, perception and information processing

Increased perceptions of acceptance by others

Decreased overall feelings of stress and tension

Reduced frustration with daily problems, and a more constructive response to disappointments and failures

 

I can sense all these things on you so maybe thats the answer you have been looking for Alps? Give it a go, get out there and i can help you, depsite our fragile relationship, i'll support you through it all, it hurts me when we argue, i feel like i am stamping on a puppy with a broken leg.

 

Thanks for proving my point about the sheer hypocrisy of you lecturing about worthwhile contributions.

 

No doubt you raised a few titters amongst the happy-clappy brigade. Very well done.

[alpine_saint]

I agree with Alpine in that if we sell 2 of our first choice midfielders and 3 others are out for the season then we probably do need to recruit.

 

Hope Adkins realises it

 

Whats with the sarcasm ?

 

If SFC and Adkins decide not to keep the fan base apprised of the status of certain injuries (do you know the result of Lallanas scan ? I dont), it hardly surprising that some will lean towards worst-case scenarios.

 

For every person that accuses me of doom-mongering and embracing the worst-case, there are people like you who describe themselves as "optimists" (though in my opinion you frequently cross the line into denial). Your response to my listing our midfield illustrates this.

[david in sweden]

name another club, at any level, who have as many players who could play striker to a high standard for that club's level?

 

I think you still missed my point NickG

it's not about the quality of the striker, but the form they are in.

The stats. I quoted prove that - even our best weren't in form all the time.

 

IMHO Lambert is a great striker (at this level certainly) but his form is nowhere near that of last season, but I'm not about to suggest we ditch him...Lots of striker have purple patches when they score in successive games, but others even the best ..can go without scoring for months.

Rooney and Owen are two pefect examples, but no-one who looked at their entire career performances would say they were finshed

or weren't worth a place in any side.

IF we were without Lambert..and / or Barnard - who would we put in the front line in early February.?

 

Buying new players is not about getting "cover to sit on the bench " ..it's an insurance policy against the unexpected and we're still only half way through this season ...!

[NickG]

Whats with the sarcasm ?

 

If SFC and Adkins decide not to keep the fan base apprised of the status of certain injuries (do you know the result of Lallanas scan ? I dont), it hardly surprising that some will lean towards worst-case scenarios.

 

For every person that accuses me of doom-mongering and embracing the worst-case, there are people like you who describe themselves as "optimists" (though in my opinion you frequently cross the line into denial). Your response to my listing our midfield illustrates this.

 

Adkins said expects them back sooner rather than later

[NickG]

I think you still missed my point NickG

it's not about the quality of the striker, but the form they are in.

The stats. I quoted prove that - even our best weren't in form all the time.

 

IMHO Lambert is a great striker (at this level certainly) but his form is nowhere near that of last season, but I'm not about to suggest we ditch him...Lots of striker have purple patches when they score in successive games, but others even the best ..can go without scoring for months.

Rooney and Owen are two pefect examples, but no-one who looked at their entire career performances would say they were finshed

or weren't worth a place in any side.

IF we were without Lambert..and / or Barnard - who would we put in the front line in early February.?

 

Buying new players is not about getting "cover to sit on the bench " ..it's an insurance policy against the unexpected and we're still only half way through this season ...!

 

but when we had those players we didn't have the depth we have now

[david in sweden]

Whats with the sarcasm ?

If SFC and Adkins decide not to keep the fan base apprised of the status of certain injuries (do you know the result of Lallanas scan ? I dont), it hardly surprising that some will lean towards worst-case scenarios.

For every person that accuses me of doom-mongering and embracing the worst-case, there are people like you who describe themselves as "optimists" (though in my opinion you frequently cross the line into denial). Your response to my listing our midfield illustrates this.

 

Despite the phenomenal amount of criticism you get Alpine, I often find myself agreeing with many threads, (maybe I don't

always lecture people in such direct terms as you do on occasions) however, . it may be semantics but whether we buy -or not- isn't just down to our optimistic / pessimistic natures.

I prefer to think of it as being ...realistic....sh*t happens and often at the most unexpected times.

Buying in more talent is an insurance policy. Look at our purchase of Richardson, arguably the best rught back available at the time, we buy him and he is injured in the first practice and out for nearly three months. When Lallana was out in August , we went 5games without even scoring ..coincidence?. Barnard (present legal problems aside) got MOM rave reviews at the start of season without even scoring, then red-carded and out another 3 games. and then it wasn't until the away game at Notts County that he started getting goals. We cannot afford major problems like those to occur again when we are on thr run-in for promotion, or some extra play-off games.

 

On this I agree with you, those who describe themselves as "optimists " live in a world where no-one gets injured, red carded or loses form--even if they rightly say - we have a good squad - on paper.

The reality is : no-one buys a house or a car - without getting insurance.

Buying now is insurance against the unexpected, not just getting second-rate reserves to sit on the bench.

[NickG]

its arrogant to dismiss others views stating yours is the realistic one, of course I view mine as such.

 

and also view Adkins as such - this debate is not helped with likes of alpine dismissing others, including Adkins stating he is full of bullsh!t.

 

We disagree. I cannot post anything that will make you change your view (nor need I) and vice versa.

 

I think half a dozen good players is ample insurance, unless the other factors such as departures need considering - and have frequently stated Adkins knows about these and won't ignore them.

 

If Lambert gets injured, play Guly and Barnard, lose Barnard then use Puncheon on wing and play Alex etc etc

[alpine_saint]

Adkins said expects them back sooner rather than later

 

For me that comment is completely ambiguous. It says nothing.

 

It could mean anything from next week, compared to the end of the season -> beginning of next season, compared to career-ending

[Turkish]

I've highlighted some simple points, very simply for you above - HTH.

* If no one leaves or gets crocked for the season the squad is good enough for promotion. Got news for you - we've got a few crocked players already!

Read it properly, i said out for the season, we will know shortly how long Lallana and Chaplow will be out for LOL[/color]* If players do leave or get crocked for the season i would expect suitable replacements to be purchased. When pray tell? How will NA know when to act? At the end of the season?! I'll give you a clue - we're in a transfer window. LOL Obviously when NA knows how long players will be out for, which give scan results are today should be today, giving him over a week to get other players in if required, LOL[/color]

* If no one leaves or gets crocked for the season i would be delighted if we signed two or three players of the quality to improve the first team squad for more options and depth, ie Charlie Austin and Ryan Harley. If no-one leaves or gets crocked, we only need to sign Guly and sell no-one. Now who's suggesting bloating the squad?!?! LOL

You are embarassing yourself now, signing c couple of players better than we have is not bloating the squad, signing loads of back up players worse than we have as cover is, i cant even see why you are arguing this point, as if singing players to improve the side is a bad thing FFS, LOL

if no one leaves or gets crocked for the season i do not see the point in buying players to sit on the bench in case of injuries, because the type of player that will be happy to do this will either be 1/worse than what we have already 2/not the type of mentality you need for a title winning side. I will cavet this though with if we sign a very promising young player similar to Aaron Martin who is happy to be part of the squad and a prospect for the future then that is fine. Well that's OK then - you've finally found a point of agreement with everyone else, as no-one is suggesting we buy bench warmers. [/color]LOL But thats just it, they are suggesting that, loads of people are saying cover players, back up players or bench warmers, there is no need as a 4th choice player in a league on side will be no better than Wotton, Gobern etc, i dont even see how this is a point people can argue,

 

I've highlighted some simple points, very simple for you above, HTH

Edited 20 January, 2011 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Thanks for proving my point about the sheer hypocrisy of you lecturing about worthwhile contributions.

 

No doubt you raised a few titters amongst the happy-clappy brigade. Very well done.

 

Coming from the man that repeats the same old sh*t every transfer window.

 

It's a shame the transfer window only has 11 days to run, but the good news is we'll only have 5 months to wait until we can do it all again and that one lasts for 3 months :-)

 

I am sure there will be a few draws or losses along they way though so everytime it happens you can say "i told you so", there is always something to look forward to in the world of Internet football forums.

Edited 20 January, 2011 by Turkish

[Turkish]

Despite the phenomenal amount of criticism you get Alpine, I often find myself agreeing with many threads, (maybe I don't

always lecture people in such direct terms as you do on occasions) however, . it may be semantics but whether we buy -or not- isn't just down to our optimistic / pessimistic natures.

I prefer to think of it as being ...realistic....sh*t happens and often at the most unexpected times.

Buying in more talent is an insurance policy. Look at our purchase of Richardson, arguably the best rught back available at the time, we buy him and he is injured in the first practice and out for nearly three months. When Lallana was out in August , we went 5games without even scoring ..coincidence?. Barnard (present legal problems aside) got MOM rave reviews at the start of season without even scoring, then red-carded and out another 3 games. and then it wasn't until the away game at Notts County that he started getting goals. We cannot afford major problems like those to occur again when we are on thr run-in for promotion, or some extra play-off games.

 

On this I agree with you, those who describe themselves as "optimists " live in a world where no-one gets injured, red carded or loses form--even if they rightly say - we have a good squad - on paper.The reality is : no-one buys a house or a car - without getting insurance.

Buying now is insurance against the unexpected, not just getting second-rate reserves to sit on the bench.

 

this is nonsense, no one is saying players wont get injured or suspended, of course they will, but you cant keep signing players incase this happens. Do managers prepare a team for every game with 20 different formations in mind in 3 players player gets injured or sent off in the first ten minutes? Course they dont, but it happens. My point has always been that adding players to the squad better than we have is brilliant and the way forward. Adding players who are worse is pointless. What sort of player is going to come to a league one club happy not to play and be fourth choice? I tell you now, they wont be better than Wotton, Martin or Gobern etc. People forget we made 8 changes and still beat Blackpool, we have 20 or so good players, a couple more GOOD players would be great but why sign someone for the sake of it? A journeyman happy only to play when needed and not fight for a place in the side. You'd be better off using someone like Doble, young and enthusiastic with a point to prove. When Lowe was here and Burley was manager we kept on adding player after player, Jackobsen, Nielsen, Van Damme, Kenton, i could go on, who simply weren't good enough and we ended up with plenty of players and cover in each position but the cover was sh*t and ended up relegated and in administration. What is better, one quality player for £1m or two average ones for £500k? It's the arguement over quanity verse quality isn't it.

[Chez]

Thanks for proving my point about the sheer hypocrisy of you lecturing about worthwhile contributions.

 

No doubt you raised a few titters amongst the happy-clappy brigade. Very well done.

 

I do feel you and anyone else that resorts to calling optimistic Saints fans as `happy clappy' have lost the arguement. Just for the record I actually stand on the side of `we ought to not rest on our laurels and look to strengthen'.

[Turkish]

I do feel you and anyone else that resorts to calling optimistic Saints fans as `happy clappy' have lost the arguement. Just for the record I actually stand on the side of `we ought to not rest on our laurels and look to strengthen'.

 

as do i but only with better than what we have. Not "cover" players.

[The9]

Its the one based on speculation, worst case scenarios and an incapable manager who will sell off our best players and not replace them.

 

And even then, apparently, it's 4 from Dickson, Guly, Schneiderlin, Butterfield and Gobern, which is about as good as 90% of this division have starting. Not bad for a side that would have lost an entire midfield.

[Barry the Badger]

I do understand the anxiety and the reasons for people wanting us to remove all risk, I just don't think it's realistic.

 

When we were in the Championship under Burley, the parachute payments were running out, and there was a feeling that we HAD to acheive promotion that season or risk a lengthy stay out of the top flight. The club went all out and threw money at it to try and guarentee promotion. Remind me how that ended up?

Edited 20 January, 2011 by Barry the Badger

[alpine_saint]

as do i but only with better than what we have. Not "cover" players.

 

And no-one has said we should buy journeyman, FFS. A fact you seem to be delibrately ignoring.

 

But we also not demaning Ronaldos and Kakas, which is the other stupid sarcastic remark that you and your ilk come out with.

[alpine_saint]

I do understand the anxiety and the reasons for people wanting us to remove all risk, I just don't think it's realistic.

 

When we were in the Championship under Burley, the parachute payments were running out, and there was a feeling that we HAD to acheive promotion that season or risk a lengthy stay out of the top flight. The club went all out and threw money at it to try and guarentee promotion. Remind me how that ended up?

 

The company ownershop and financial background is COMPLETELY different. If NC wants to give us a financial shove over the finish line, and the Liebherrs agree, whats the problem FFS ?

[alpine_saint]

And even then, apparently, it's 4 from Dickson, Guly, Schneiderlin, Butterfield and Gobern, which is about as good as 90% of this division have starting. Not bad for a side that would have lost an entire midfield.

 

Absolutely astonishing complacency and hubris....

[Turkish]

And no-one has said we should buy journeyman, FFS. A fact you seem to be delibrately ignoring.

 

But we also not demaning Ronaldos and Kakas, which is the other stupid sarcastic remark that you and your ilk come out with.

 

So what are you demanding then? You say "cover" players, yet "cover" players in a league one squad would be no better than Gobern and Wotton. What sort of player do you think will be 4th choice in a league one side? You dont seem to know yourself. The D&R striker with the red hair when we played up there, cant remember his name, he was okayish, would have made a decent "cover" player as he is worse than Lambert, Barnard, Connolly and Gully but can do an okay job in League one if he only had to play when everyone else was injured. Would you be happy if we signed him?

[Baj]

Play nicely children, or we'll take away your toys

[ohwhenthesaints]

And no-one has said we should buy journeyman, FFS. A fact you seem to be delibrately ignoring.

 

But we also not demaning Ronaldos and Kakas, which is the other stupid sarcastic remark that you and your ilk come out with.

 

NA has already said that substantial bids were lodged for players, who I assume would slot straight into the starting 11. It's not through a lack of trying, it's just bloody difficult to get players of that quality to join us while we're in this godforsaken league. It is not easy to get players to drop down from the leagues above and most of the players in our league who would be good enough will want to move up to the Championship at least.

 

We need to be patient and have faith in the management. I'm also sure NA has his eye on the loan market in case we need to get players in after the window closes.

[alpine_saint]

So what are you demanding then? You say "cover" players, yet "cover" players in a league one squad would be no better than Gobern and Wotton. What sort of player do you think will be 4th choice in a league one side? You dont seem to know yourself. The D&R striker with the red hair when we played up there, cant remember his name, he was okayish, would have made a decent "cover" player as he is worse than Lambert, Barnard, Connolly and Gully but can do an okay job in League one if he only had to play when everyone else was injured. Would you be happy if we signed him?

 

If we are reacting to injuries, they are not going to be 4th choice.

 

We are a League 1 side with a very strong chance of being in the NPC next season. With off-field management and ownership that is committed to returning us to the big time in a short period.

 

I understand it is in your interest to put down our attractiveness for the sake of this argument.

 

We managed to attract Lambert and Fonte last season, why shouldnt we be able to attract players of a similar calibre now ?

[Turkish]

For me that comment is completely ambiguous. It says nothing.

 

It could mean anything from next week, compared to the end of the season -> beginning of next season, compared to career-ending

 

For once we agree. It is a FACT that NA didn't know how long Lallana would be out for when he said this, as he didn't have his scan until tuesday, why he couldn't say this i dont know. Its quite disapointing to agree with you, i was hoping for another little cyber ruffle of the hair and playful wrestle, i could do that with you all day you silly little scamp.

[buctootim]

If we are reacting to injuries, they are not going to be 4th choice.

 

We are a League 1 side with a very strong chance of being in the NPC next season.

 

We managed to attract Lambert and Fonte last season, why shouldnt we be able to attract players of a similar calibre now ?

 

Would you really want to sign the kinds of players who are happy to play for us on the basis that they might get a game if someone happens to get injured - ie little ambition or drive happy just to draw a wage aka Pulis? Lambert and Fonte signed because they knew they would be first choices, nailed on to play.

[alpine_saint]

NA has already said that substantial bids were lodged for players, who I assume would slot straight into the starting 11. It's not through a lack of trying, it's just bloody difficult to get players of that quality to join us while we're in this godforsaken league. It is not easy to get players to drop down from the leagues above and most of the players in our league who would be good enough will want to move up to the Championship at least.

 

We need to be patient and have faith in the management. I'm also sure NA has his eye on the loan market in case we need to get players in after the window closes.

 

Look, as long as everything that is possible to do is being done, I am satisfied, and we will go up or not. I can live with that.

 

But thats not the point here. The point is that there is a (misguided, imo) body of opinion on here that we are strong enough and need to do NOTHING

[Barry the Badger]

If NC wants to give us a financial shove over the finish line, and the Liebherrs agree, whats the problem FFS ?

 

and if they aren't prepared to do that?

[alpine_saint]

Would you really want to sign the kinds of players who are happy to play for us on the basis that they might get a game if someone happens to get injured - ie little ambition or drive happy just to draw a wage? Lamber and Fonte signed because they knew they would be first choices, nailed on to play.

 

The injuries have already happend, my friend. No "if" about it.

[alpine_saint]

and if they aren't prepared to do that?

 

Jesus, in what way is that relevant to the argument going on here ?

[Barry the Badger]

The injuries have already happend, my friend. No "if" about it.

 

We've had injuries all season, Lallana, Holmes, Barnard etc etc, and yet here we are in the position that if we win our game in hand we will be second.

 

Surely that is evidence that this squad IS strong enough to cope with all but the worst injury crisis.

[Turkish]

If we are reacting to injuries, they are not going to be 4th choice.

 

We are a League 1 side with a very strong chance of being in the NPC next season. With off-field management and ownership that is committed to returning us to the big time in a short period.

 

I understand it is in your interest to put down our attractiveness for the sake of this argument.

 

We managed to attract Lambert and Fonte last season, why shouldnt we be able to attract players of a similar calibre now ?

 

Ehh?? I am not putting down our attractiveness at all, which is why i am saying it would be silly to buy players as "cover" not good enough for the first XI unless there are injuries. We need to buy quaility players not "cover" players. You wont attract a Ryan Harley or a Charlie Austin here by telling them they are 4th choice, they could go to the league above now and be a first team player, so you are looking at players worse than we have if all you are looking for is players that will only play when the first choice XI are injured.

[Barry the Badger]

Jesus, in what way is that relevant to the argument going on here ?

 

You are simply assuming that the Liebherrs are prepared to keep pumping money in whilst we are in this division. I am pointing out that they may not be prepared to do so. You're the one who mentioned it.

[alpine_saint]

We've had injuries all season, Lallana, Holmes, Barnard etc etc, and yet here we are in the position that if we win our game in hand we will be second.

 

Surely that is evidence that this squad IS strong enough to cope with all but the worst injury crisis.

 

Remind me how well we did at the beginning of the season with those injuries.

[david in sweden]

this is nonsense, no one is saying players wont get injured or suspended, of course they will, but you cant keep signing players incase this happens. Do managers prepare a team for every game with 20 different formations in mind in 3 players player gets injured or sent off in the first ten minutes? Course they dont, but it happens. My point has always been that adding players to the squad better than we have is brilliant and the way forward. Adding players who are worse is pointless. What sort of player is going to come to a league one club happy not to play and be fourth choice? I tell you now, they wont be better than Wotton, Martin or Gobern etc. People forget we made 8 changes and still beat Blackpool, we have 20 or so good players, a couple more GOOD players would be great but why sign someone for the sake of it? A journeyman happy only to play when needed and not fight for a place in the side. You'd be better off using someone like Doble, young and enthusiastic with a point to prove. When Lowe was here and Burley was manager we kept on adding player after player, Jackobsen, Nielsen, Van Damme, Kenton, i could go on, who simply weren't good enough and we ended up with plenty of players and cover in each position but the cover was sh*t and ended up relegated and in administration. What is better, one quality player for £1m or two average ones for £500k? It's the arguement over quanity verse quality isn't it.

 

OK Turkish, we'll have to... agree to disagree ... on this one. DC

 

I just want us out of this division, and if we continuing losing Lallana, and can't depend on using Connolly etc etc ,

I'd go for "over kill " ...at least until the end of May.

 

but here's something to dwell on ..

 

QUOTE : It's not just about 11 players, it's dealing with injuries and suspensions and ....

......players who are a little off-form...

....creating competition for places..... end of QUOTE

 

Nigel Adkins Saints OS january 20th 2011

 

I rest my case. DC

Edited 20 January, 2011 by david in sweden
updated

[alpine_saint]

You are simply assuming that the Liebherrs are prepared to keep pumping money in whilst we are in this division. I am pointing out that they may not be prepared to do so. You're the one who mentioned it.

 

No I am not; I quite clearly wrote "everything that is possible"

[Barry the Badger]

We are not going to get anywhere here.

 

I think we have a squad which is easily strong enough to do the job. Although I would be delighted if we signed a player or two of course, I'm not going to be too concerned if we don't.

 

You think we are in trouble and have a weak squad. Fair enough.

 

Nobody's going to change their mind so we're just going round in circles.

[Dig Dig]

Remind me how well we did at the beginning of the season with those injuries.

 

There were other significant factors which made for the poor start... **** pre-season, pardew sacking, wilkins etc

[alpine_saint]

There were other significant factors which made for the poor start... **** pre-season, pardew sacking, wilkins etc

 

Of course pre-season was the root evil that has caused everything since. I remember the ridicule I got about my complaints on here at the time.

 

But pre-season caused a lot of the injuries that wrecked our form earlier on. If our best players had been available, we would have done better in those games, Wilkins or not.

 

Seeing as the truth about Pardew's departure is still not in the public domain, there is no proof which direction it affected the team.

[norwaysaint]

I think the thing here is that it's very different to say "We should sign Ryan Harley/Austin" or whoever else seems to be a valuable addition to the squad for the future, which most people would agree with, including Turkish, I'm sure, and saying "we need cover in case of injuries or suspensions" which implies bringing in more league one squad players and would be a bad move.

 

We have league one level cover for all positions already, they're not great players, but that's why they're reserves for a league one club. it's very unlikely we'll catch another Fonte or Lambert, both of whom have had guaranteed first team places since they arrived.

[alpine_saint]

I think the thing here is that it's very different to say "We should sign Ryan Harley/Austin" or whoever else seems to be a valuable addition to the squad for the future, which most people would agree with, including Turkish, I'm sure, and saying "we need cover in case of injuries or suspensions" which implies bringing in more league one squad players and would be a bad move.

 

We have league one level cover for all positions already, they're not great players, but that's why they're reserves for a league one club. it's very unlikely we'll catch another Fonte or Lambert, both of whom have had guaranteed first team places since they arrived.

 

See, I dont share your pessimism on that. We've got money, and a damn good chance at promotion, more than we had when Fonte and Lambert signed on.

[Saint_clark]

Of course pre-season was the root evil that has caused everything since. I remember the ridicule I got about my complaints on here at the time.

 

But pre-season caused a lot of the injuries that wrecked our form earlier on. If our best players had been available, we would have done better in those games, Wilkins or not.

 

Seeing as the truth about Pardew's departure is still not in the public domain, there is no proof which direction it affected the team.

 

But you said at the time that we weren't working hard enough, when we've since learnt the players were worked too hard.

[norwaysaint]

See, I dont share your pessimism on that. We've got money, and a damn good chance at promotion, more than we had when Fonte and Lambert signed on.

I understand your point, but which position on the pitch do you think we could currently guarantee a starting place to someone for? Maybe centre-back, or if it was a very good signing, centre midfield, but otherwise, any big money signing would know they stood a danger of being on the bench in league one, if they found that an attractive move, I'd be surprised.

[Toadhall Saint]

Football nowadays is a squad game not just the 1st 11. If we can sign players to improve the squad then we should if however the players that are out there will not improve the squad then we should not - simple really. I trust NA & NC to do just that.

[alpine_saint]

Football nowadays is a squad game not just the 1st 11. If we can sign players to improve the squad then we should if however the players that are out there will not improve the squad then we should not - simple really. I trust NA & NC to do just that.

 

In fairness, I do too. Therefore I was pleased NA made "significant bids" comment because it fitted with my own opinion. As I said earlier, if they've done their best or dont see the real need to get players in (in contradiction to the "significant bids" comment), I can live with that; I just hope they can live with missing promotion if that becomes the case.

[alpine_saint]

But you said at the time that we weren't working hard enough, when we've since learnt the players were worked too hard.

 

Erm, no I didnt. I said the whole pre-season was half-arsed. But it was 6 months ago, maybe I called them lazy at some point.

[PokingFun]

Do we ?? Let's go through that super midfield line up one-by-one:

 

Lallana - injured

Oxo - could be sold

Puncheon - could be sold

Schneiderlin - quality midfielder when he turns up

Hammond - injured

Chaplow - injured

Gobern - has potential, but spearheading a promotion drive ? Do leave it out

Goolie - hasnt he been playing further forward than midfield ?

Butterfield - hasnt set the world alight

Dickson - also hasnt set the world alight

 

So in theory our midfield could be Goolie, Schneiderlin, Gobern or Butterfield, Dickson come the end of the transfer window.

 

Forgive me if I dont exactly wet myself in excitement. That midfield wont get us promoted.

 

You've probably never known excitement in your life!

 

Lallana - Injured but we don't know how long for. NA seemed to think sooner rather than later.

Oxo - might not be sold - we simply don't know at this moment in time so we don't need a replacement. If he is sold then I expect NA / NC to get top dollar and replace.

Punch - might not be sold, if he is then I expect us to replace as per Oxo.

Hammond - short term injury by the look of it according to NA limited comments so far. Tranmere game preview says he hopes to have him available.

Chaplow - is he injured? No mention of it anywhere at the moment.

Gobern - agree not going to spearhead but won't need to and will provide "cover".

Guly - Permanently signed and could play in a midfield role as that was his position at Cesena. He has also played in MF for us in some games.

Butterfield - has been solid as a rock for us.

Dickson - looked decent in CM and at LM when played there in games at St Marys.

 

We simply don't need to strengthen the midfield at the moment. All teams get injuries from time to time. We are no exception but if a crisis happens there is still the loan window available which we can utilise. In theory, we would be very unlcuky to have a midfield lining up as you suggest and even that one would be better than a significant number in this league!!

 

By the way, I said our midfield is strong, which it is, I didnt say it would get us promoted. The whole team including management will do that. I also dont worry too much about if so and so is sold etc as I am confident they will be replaced if it happens. I'm assuming we'll have to agree to disagree as you will never see a reasoned argument and moderate your opinion at all.

[The9]

Absolutely astonishing complacency and hubris....

 

So you're telling me there are more than 3 teams in League One that have a better midfield than that "second string" option ? I think it's at least arguable based on what I've seen at St Mary's so far this season. Brighton were decent, Bournemouth's side were anonymous both times with the exception of Pugh, Huddersfield's usually decent side got slaughtered again, Peterborough don't appear to bother with midfield, even when Swindon stuffed us early on they had already been beaten by everyone else. Who else is there ? Notts County's midfield was utter guff going forward - though their 10 defenders did quite well.

 

Dickson, Guly and Schneiderlin are all regular starters already and would walk into the midfield of practically EVERY other team in this League.

 

Gobern wouldn't, and didn't at MK last season, but he's still improving, whilst Butterfield has Premier League experience, and is also adequate (fourth choice) cover for a right midfield slot having played there before. But it's not like most teams in League One aren't mixing, matching and making do on a weekly basis.

 

And let's not forget, this is only as back up to Lallana, Chamberlain, Chaplow and Hammond.

[PokingFun]

I think you still missed my point NickG

it's not about the quality of the striker, but the form they are in.

The stats. I quoted prove that - even our best weren't in form all the time.

 

IMHO Lambert is a great striker (at this level certainly) but his form is nowhere near that of last season, but I'm not about to suggest we ditch him...Lots of striker have purple patches when they score in successive games, but others even the best ..can go without scoring for months.

Rooney and Owen are two pefect examples, but no-one who looked at their entire career performances would say they were finshed

or weren't worth a place in any side.

IF we were without Lambert..and / or Barnard - who would we put in the front line in early February.?

 

Buying new players is not about getting "cover to sit on the bench " ..it's an insurance policy against the unexpected and we're still only half way through this season ...!

 

It could be argued that last season was an exceptional one for Lambert and that he is now doing what he normally does in a season. It would be extremely difficult for anyone to score 35+ goals a season consistently in any league so you need to consider that RL will have a "normal" season this year which would be 20 odd goals. He is also more than just an goalscorer as we have seen in recent games and the team no longer relies on all its goals from forwards which helps too.

[Toadhall Saint]

In fairness, I do too. Therefore I was pleased NA made "significant bids" comment because it fitted with my own opinion. As I said earlier, if they've done their best or dont see the real need to get players in (in contradiction to the "significant bids" comment), I can live with that; I just hope they can live with missing promotion if that becomes the case.

 

They obviously have players that they would like to have - the "significant" bit to me means actual players that will walk into the first team not just this season but potentially in the Championship. If they came then the players they replace would either revert to squad (therefore making the squad stronger) or move on, giving some of the younger players the opportunity to become the sqad player and so on....

 

As to them doing their best or don't see the real need to get players in bit - I think they are probably doing their best and and are always looking to improve the squad but if the players are not out there/available then they will keep what they have got by default.