If you really think we don't need to buy...

[david in sweden]

so basically...saints would need the most expensive, talented and largest squad in division 3 history JUST to go up...

 

just to be SURE of going up....YES !

We need cover for eventual injuries, suspensions (and to deal with whatever judgment the judicial system MAY impose on Barnard should things go against him) ..convinced yet ?

 

WHEN we get up to CCC ...there is certain to be some sorting of, the sheep from the goats...the wheat from the chaff or the men from the boys ..Choose your own simile.

As long as we have strength in depth, we 'll make it. There are still over 20 games left!

[david in sweden]

I take it you mean Lalanna, Puncheon and Chamberlain?

 

Puncheon hasn't played any part in the "synergy" we have supposedly lost and Alex is still here. One 0-0 draw after winning 5 on the bounce and we've lost it? Ridiculous.

 

Junction 9 ...You missed the point of my original post #1

 

.I wasn't concerned about the 0-0 , I don't think I even mentioned it.

What I was concerned about was that with Holmes already out for the rest of the season, Hammond OUT and Lallana OUT ..for an undefined period of time ..and 20+ games still to go...the midfield back-up looks a bit thin to say the least.

 

I think AOC will stay, but Puncheon may yet go...and we have no experienced cover .

 

We are in a good position to go up, if we retain our recent form, but without those mentioned above ..we'll have no midfield at all.

 

I still rate Lambert very highly despite his lack of goal scoring prowess he showed last season, but Barnard's future is uncertain

until his case comes up, and Connolly is still plagued by injury .

 

Hence my suggestion, 1 Striker and 2 midfielders to make sure we are well-covered until the end of the season.

When we go up, I expect a thorough overall of the whole squad, if we are to push onto the Prem. in 3 -4 years.

[Turkish]

COVER COVER FU*CKING COVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I dont understand why it is such a difficult concept for people to understand, a squad of 22-24 good players is going to be more successful than a squad of 11 good players and 24 average ones. We do not need players to "Cover" for injuries and supsensions. What sort of player is going to join a league one squad and sit on the bench? No one any better than Gobern, Martin and Conolly that is for sure. We need good players, as good as or better than we have to improve the first team and squad and capable of allowing us to adapt formations, tactics and team depending on oppostion & conditions. Not f*cking COVER players to sit on their arse until one of the first XI are injured or suspended.

[NickG]

COVER COVER FU*CKING COVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I dont understand why it is such a difficult concept for people to understand, a squad of 22-24 good players is going to be more successful than a squad of 11 good players and 24 average ones. We do not need players to "Cover" for injuries and supsensions. What sort of player is going to join a league one squad and sit on the bench? No one any better than Gobern, Martin and Conolly that is for sure. We need good players, as good as or better than we have to improve the first team and squad and capable of allowing us to adapt formations, tactics and team depending on oppostion & conditions. Not f*cking COVER players to sit on their arse until one of the first XI are injured or suspended.

 

agree.

 

We clearly have enough half decent numbers for each position.

 

Therefore if we sign someone they need to be either:

 

1) better than first 11 to justify pushing some to bench - e.g. is Austin worthy of making Lambert a sub? Who is better than Lallana or Ox-C?

 

2) happy to be on bench / fight for place - likely to be either player towards end of career - Butterfield, Jaidi, Connolly or young developing prospect moving up e.g the Hereford lad.

[Saint Fan CaM]

COVER COVER FU*CKING COVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I dont understand why it is such a difficult concept for people to understand, a squad of 22-24 good players is going to be more successful than a squad of 11 good players and 24 average ones. We do not need players to "Cover" for injuries and supsensions. What sort of player is going to join a league one squad and sit on the bench? No one any better than Gobern, Martin and Conolly that is for sure. We need good players, as good as or better than we have to improve the first team and squad and capable of allowing us to adapt formations, tactics and team depending on oppostion & conditions. Not f*cking COVER players to sit on their arse until one of the first XI are injured or suspended.

 

You're talking semantics here. If we buy in someone like Ryan Harley for example who then plays well while Lallana is out, but ultimately drops to the bench because Lallana is the first choice player, does that mean he is "cover" and should never have been signed in the first place? Of course not! Sure we don't want a bloated squad, however we have two problems to contend with - (a) an impatient CEO who expects promotion this year and (b) a squad of players that includes a substantive number that are not good enough or prone to injury. There are players in the squad who need to be moved on and are a legacy from even pre-Pardew days that will never get anywhere near the 1st team now - i.e. Pulis, Forecast, Wotton etc. - are they classed as "cover"?! Can we afford to wait to ship these players out before adding some real quality and depth to the squad?

Edited 19 January, 2011 by Saint Fan CaM
Added thought...

[Fan The Flames]

agree.

 

We clearly have enough half decent numbers for each position.

 

Therefore if we sign someone they need to be either:

 

1) better than first 11 to justify pushing some to bench - e.g. is Austin worthy of making Lambert a sub? Who is better than Lallana or Ox-C?

 

2) happy to be on bench / fight for place - likely to be either player towards end of career - Butterfield, Jaidi, Connolly or young developing prospect moving up e.g the Hereford lad.

 

Or players moving downwards or sidewards to a team with better prospects. Like Fonte and Lambert.

[Chez]

There are players in the squad who need to be moved on and are a legacy from even pre-Pardew days that will never get anywhere near the 1st team now - i.e. Pulis, Forecast, Wotton etc. - are they classed as "cover"?! Can we afford to wait to ship these players out before adding some real quality and depth to the squad?

 

can we afford to pay these players and the new ones coming in?

[NickG]

Or players moving downwards or sidewards to a team with better prospects. Like Fonte and Lambert.

 

difference was they were guaranteed starting place - we didn't have a complete team - we do now

[Turkish]

You're talking semantics here. If we buy in someone like Ryan Harley for example who then plays well while Lallana is out, but ultimately drops to the bench because Lallana is the first choice player, does that mean he is "cover" and should never have been signed in the first place? Of course not! Sure we don't want a bloated squad, however we have two problems to contend with - (a) an impatient CEO who expects promotion this year and (b) a squad of players that includes a substantive number that are not good enough or prone to injury. There are players in the squad who need to be moved on and are a legacy from even pre-Pardew days that will never get anywhere near the 1st team now - i.e. Pulis, Forecast, Wotton etc. - are they classed as "cover"?! Can we afford to wait to ship these players out before adding some real quality and depth to the squad?

 

This is where a lot of people are blinkered on here and just look for like for like replacements. If you are talking playing 4-4-2 then no player better than Lallana is going to joining us so yes Harley would drop to the bench in that circumstance, this is if he was signed purely as a left midfield player. But a player of his ability gives us other options other than 4-4-2, he and Lallana could fit into a 5 man midfield with AOC, plus two of of MS RC or DH giving us a very creative and attacking 4-5-1, or also in a 4-3-3 as wide attacking player, or in a 4-4-2 there is no reason why he couldn't play on the right, left or centre with Lallana also in the side. That is the whole point of a smaller squad of quality players, options, variaious formations, players rotated to suit the opposition and also keep them fresh and motivated. I'd much rather this than just like for like cover, providing poorer options of what they are filling in for, thus making the team poorer by default. This is what people will get if them simply demand like for like cover players which some on here are doing, as no player worth having is going to be happy to sit on the bench waiting for someone to get injured.

 

And to answer your question on Forecast & Pulis i dont know what the hell they are doing here in the first place and shouldn't get anywhere near the squad.

[Dig Dig]

I really don't think many are advocating the purchase of cover players, what div 3 side can have that luxury and besides thats what the researve team is for. People are more concerned about bringing in targeted players that will strengthen the first team, players of the Fonte ilk, who could go elsewhere but choose SFC because they understand our potential. So maybe it's worth trying to pull one of them in now instead of the summmer, it may be a bit more costly but it's the safe thing to do. Our squad will be up there with the best buy if you have the cash and the promise of possible promotion then I why not use it.

 

But isn't this exactly what the club are trying to do!? We seem to have this every window....speculation that the club are just sat doing nothing whilst the window passes by and everyone else are signing these amazing players which add so much more depth than we have. Since we have been taken over, have we really been let down by the three transfer windows we have had already?.... In my opinion, no.

 

 

 

We know we have lodged bids for players and "substanial" ones to boot.

[david in sweden]

" cover " or whatever you want to call it is necessary if we are to maintain the momentum,

Agreed , there are few players (even in CCC) who are as good as Lallana, so if he's out for any length of time we must hope that Chaplow or A.N.OTHER. will fit the bill. Looking at NA s first 5 games he had Butterfield, Fonte, Seabourne and Harding at the back.

Now only Fonte is a "regular" but I'm happy with the alternatives...Richardson, Dickson, Jaidi, Martin.

 

But midfield is another situation.(Despite only ONE goal in his third season - Schneiderlin's in , so too Hammond, AOC, and Puncheon whilst Lallana was injured then also. BUT with AOC being " sold " to every Prem club with big money, and Puncheon still with one boot out of the door ..where is the " cover " there? Therefore we must have at least ONE L1 /CCC quality player in NOW.

 

I'm happy with a front line of Lambert and /or Barnard and /or Guly .....and a fit Connolly. More injuries / or suspensions and we could be in real trouble there, not to mention LB's unfinished business with the judge and jury leaves us open for real problems.

So ONE good L1/CCC striker.

When people talk about "quality" players we must remember that each division has its own standards, and I wouldn't expect more than half of our present first team to be regulars in CCC ..and even less when we get up to the Prem.

Edited 19 January, 2011 by david in sweden

[david in sweden]

agree.

 

We clearly have enough half decent numbers for each position.

 

Therefore if we sign someone they need to be either:

 

1) better than first 11 to justify pushing some to bench - e.g. is Austin worthy of making Lambert a sub? Who is better than Lallana or Ox-C? NO but it is a game with 3 subs nowadays and if someone is having a poor day, we can change the plan in second half.

2) happy to be on bench / fight for place - likely to be either player towards end of career - Butterfield, Jaidi, Connolly or young developing prospect moving up e.g the Hereford lad.

You cannot ignore suspensions and red cards e.g. Barnard's after which we went 4 games without scoring ! all the others you named have been out for some period through injury already this season.

[MarkSFC]

another aspect to signing players is actually to improve the players you already have. Players that are "dead certs" to start each game need players in the squad to put pressure on them to keep up their standards and/or improve their standards. Players who stand out as good in some teams are only "found out" when someone better arrives.

 

As we move up the leagues we will see the team and the squad change quite a bit. At this moment in time the only players who I would say COULD start in the TEAM in the Premier League are "possibly" Fonte, "possibly" Lambert, "possibly" Lallana, and "probably" AOC. In the PL if all these together with Frazer, "maybe" Morgan, Guly, possibly Bart, were part of the squad that would be fine. Unless any of them improve substantially they wouldnt get in a top 6 PL team nad seeing as that is NC's target at least, then the team and the squad will be very different in 2-4 years time.

[Dig Dig]

" cover " or whatever you want to call it is necessary if we are to maintain the momentum,

Agreed , there are few players (even in CCC) who are as good as Lallana, so if he's out for any length of time we must hope that Chaplow or A.N.OTHER. will fit the bill. Looking at NA s first 5 games he had Butterfield, Fonte, Seabourne and Harding at the back.

Now only Fonte is a "regular" but I'm happy with the alternatives...Richardson, Dickson, Jaidi, Martin.

 

But midfield is another situation.(Despite only ONE goal in his third season - Schneiderlin's in , so too Hammond, AOC, and Puncheon whilst Lallana was injured then also. BUT with AOC being " sold " to every Prem club with big money, and Puncheon still with one boot out of the door ..where is the " cover " there? Therefore we must have at least ONE L1 /CCC quality player in NOW.

 

I'm happy with a front line of Lambert and /or Barnard and /or Guly .....and a fit Connolly. More injuries / or suspensions and we could be in real trouble there, not to mention LB's unfinished business with the judge and jury leaves us open for real problems.

So ONE good L1/CCC striker.

When people talk about "quality" players we must remember that each division has its own standards, and I wouldn't expect more than half of our present first team to be regulars in CCC ..and even less when we get up to the Prem.

 

You don't know the eventualities of either of the points I've highlighted. Again based on pure speculation and IF either were to leave in this window, are you honestly worried about the club not doing anything!!?? Or are you advocating signings of the required quality in advance of either potentially leaving "just in case". I'm struggling to see your point tbh.

[NickG]

" cover " or whatever you want to call it is necessary if we are to maintain the momentum,

Agreed , there are few players (even in CCC) who are as good as Lallana, so if he's out for any length of time we must hope that Chaplow or A.N.OTHER. will fit the bill. Looking at NA s first 5 games he had Butterfield, Fonte, Seabourne and Harding at the back.

Now only Fonte is a "regular" but I'm happy with the alternatives...Richardson, Dickson, Jaidi, Martin.

 

But midfield is another situation.(Despite only ONE goal in his third season - Schneiderlin's in , so too Hammond, AOC, and Puncheon whilst Lallana was injured then also. BUT with AOC being " sold " to every Prem club with big money, and Puncheon still with one boot out of the door ..where is the " cover " there? Therefore we must have at least ONE L1 /CCC quality player in NOW.

 

I'm happy with a front line of Lambert and /or Barnard and /or Guly .....and a fit Connolly. More injuries / or suspensions and we could be in real trouble there, not to mention LB's unfinished business with the judge and jury leaves us open for real problems.

So ONE good L1/CCC striker.

When people talk about "quality" players we must remember that each division has its own standards, and I wouldn't expect more than half of our present first team to be regulars in CCC ..and even less when we get up to the Prem.

 

Ox-C and Puncheon haven't left.

 

Sure Adkins is aware of the situation and will react accordingly.

 

We have used as forwards this season

 

Lambert 9 goals

Guly 8 goals

Barnard 8 goals

Lallana 9 goals

Connolly 1 goal

Ox-C 7 goals

[NickG]

You cannot ignore suspensions and red cards e.g. Barnard's after which we went 4 games without scoring ! all the others you named have been out for some period through injury already this season.

 

do you really think Barnard's suspension was why we wen through a lean patch?

 

you think Austin will come here as a sub? Great if true but think you are miles off.

[MarkSFC]

do you really think Barnard's suspension was why we wen through a lean patch?

 

you think Austin will come here as a sub? Great if true but think you are miles off.

 

The reason for signing Austin in my mind is to play him in most games. I think he could be great alongside Lambert or Guly, and not too bad with Barnard. Signing him or A.N.Other striker form me is to a) go straight into the team and b)improve options and c)be good enough for the Championship.

 

I find your whole attitude to signing players and the quality of our team and squad very strange. Your standards seem very low.

[NickG]

Not low standards but realistic as to what we have already.

 

If we can keep Guly / Lambert / Barnard / Connolly all happy and performing - great.

 

If you look at the squad of Brighton for example, they have no where near the quality or depth we have up front already, no where near.

 

More than happy for us to be even stronger than them but personally see it unlikely that they would buy a player - who would be very expensive - who may not get many games.

 

Of course, if Barnard is not going to be avialable or Guly is going that changes things but the club know more about those.

 

Do you honestly think Adkins has looked at our forward and decided Austin is worth the money? Hope he has but personally doubt it.

[hypochondriac]

Can I just say now that if we only get a couple players in and then have a massive injury crisis, I don't want Alpine and others to start saying I told you so. It could happen to any team.

[MarkSFC]

Not low standards but realistic as to what we have already.

 

If we can keep Guly / Lambert / Barnard / Connolly all happy and performing - great.

 

If you look at the squad of Brighton for example, they have no where near the quality or depth we have up front already, no where near.

 

More than happy for us to be even stronger than them but personally see it unlikely that they would buy a player - who would be very expensive - who may not get many games.

 

Of course, if Barnard is not going to be avialable or Guly is going that changes things but the club know more about those.

 

Do you honestly think Adkins has looked at our forward and decided Austin is worth the money? Hope he has but personally doubt it.

 

But you miss the whole big picture! Saints are building to compete at a high level in the Premier League asap. We have money and can therefore do it far quicker than most. You compare us to Brighton. Well their whole strategy is clearly built around getting into the Championship and being competitive there. They will sign players of a standard that is league1/championship standard and they will use several loans.

Im sure they will aim to get up to the Prem but if you are building a ground that only holds about 22K you are not looking to be a big fish. I suspect that the board at Brighton would be happy with consolodation in the NPC for a year or two and if the play-offs happen or even automatic promotion one year then they will be happy as it will earn them enough money to exist for many many years or probably pay back their owner his £80million!!

 

You also say if,if,if and thats the point. only a couple of months ago we were in those exact positions.

 

Spending 2/3/ or even 4 million this window would not make the slightest dent in the overall scheme based on NC's comments and even if some prefer to see that as panic buying it only is if the players do not fit into the overall strategy.

[alpine_saint]

But you miss the whole big picture! Saints are building to compete at a high level in the Premier League asap. We have money and can therefore do it far quicker than most. You compare us to Brighton. Well their whole strategy is clearly built around getting into the Championship and being competitive there. They will sign players of a standard that is league1/championship standard and they will use several loans.

Im sure they will aim to get up to the Prem but if you are building a ground that only holds about 22K you are not looking to be a big fish. I suspect that the board at Brighton would be happy with consolodation in the NPC for a year or two and if the play-offs happen or even automatic promotion one year then they will be happy as it will earn them enough money to exist for many many years or probably pay back their owner his £80million!!

 

You also say if,if,if and thats the point. only a couple of months ago we were in those exact positions.

 

Spending 2/3/ or even 4 million this window would not make the slightest dent in the overall scheme based on NC's comments and even if some prefer to see that as panic buying it only is if the players do not fit into the overall strategy.

 

Really mate, you are wasting your breath with a few of the people on here. According to them, promotion is nailed-on whatever happens to the squad.

 

Midfield ? Who needs it ??

[Turkish]

Really mate, you are wasting your breath with a few of the people on here. According to them, promotion is nailed-on whatever happens to the squad.

 

Midfield ? Who needs it ??

 

and according to some we are destined to fail unless we have 5 world class players sitting around as cover for every position.

[Dig Dig]

Really mate, you are wasting your breath with a few of the people on here. According to them, promotion is nailed-on whatever happens to the squad.

 

Midfield ? Who needs it ??

 

No one has said that. It's just you and a few others going through the usual transfer window meltdown. Jan will come and go and we'll be having exactly the same debate come July. I can't wait

[NickG]

Really mate, you are wasting your breath with a few of the people on here. According to them, promotion is nailed-on whatever happens to the squad.

 

Midfield ? Who needs it ??

 

sorry, just happen to agree with Adkins on this one, from what I have seen of the players.

[NickG]

But you miss the whole big picture! Saints are building to compete at a high level in the Premier League asap. We have money and can therefore do it far quicker than most. You compare us to Brighton. Well their whole strategy is clearly built around getting into the Championship and being competitive there. They will sign players of a standard that is league1/championship standard and they will use several loans.

Im sure they will aim to get up to the Prem but if you are building a ground that only holds about 22K you are not looking to be a big fish. I suspect that the board at Brighton would be happy with consolodation in the NPC for a year or two and if the play-offs happen or even automatic promotion one year then they will be happy as it will earn them enough money to exist for many many years or probably pay back their owner his £80million!!

 

You also say if,if,if and thats the point. only a couple of months ago we were in those exact positions.

 

Spending 2/3/ or even 4 million this window would not make the slightest dent in the overall scheme based on NC's comments and even if some prefer to see that as panic buying it only is if the players do not fit into the overall strategy.

 

Not being difficult but don't really get your point? We shouldn't have signed Lambert etc as they are not prem level?

[david in sweden]

Ox-C and Puncheon haven't left.

Sure Adkins is aware of the situation and will react accordingly.

We have used as forwards this season

Lambert 9 goals

Guly 8 goals

Barnard 8 goals

Lallana 9 goals

Connolly 1 goal

Ox-C 7 goals

 

I'm not arguing those figures, (I got the same totals) ...but they are history and offer no guarantees for the second half of the season.

 

Strikers are the most INCONSISTANT players in football- even when fit. Don't believe me..here's a few stats.(from In That Number )

 

2001-02 James Beattie had scored 10 goals by mid jan, was injured - missed 11 games and only scored 2 the rest of season.

2000.01 Beattie again scored 10 in 7 weeks upto Dec 31st ...and only once more the rest of the season.

01-02 Marian Pahars (bless him) 9 by New Year ...but only one more to end of season.

1991.92 Alan Shearer (you must recall him) 10 goals by New Year... but only 3 for rest of season.

1987-88 Danny Wallace 10 goals by the end of November but only once more by seasons end.

1965-66 Martin Chivers in promotion season had scored 30 goals by end of Feb. but didn't score again in last 12 games.I know they are all historical but you can find such examples almost every year...

 

The likes of George O'Brien, Ron Davies, Boyer, MacDougall and MLT were fairly consistant but we don't see their like so often.

Even if we buy a new striker, there's no saying the existing names will continue to hold their form...or stay injury-free.

Edited 19 January, 2011 by david in sweden

[david in sweden]

You don't know the eventualities of either of the points I've highlighted. Again based on pure speculation and IF either were to leave in this window, are you honestly worried about the club not doing anything!!?? Or are you advocating signings of the required quality in advance of either potentially leaving "just in case". I'm struggling to see your point tbh.

 

We are obviously not short of the extra 100K to clinch any deal.

There are too many.. IF's with our injured midfielders , and if the worse happens we will be running round like headless chickens on Jan 30th trying to sign ..whoever's left over ..when most of the big deals have been done. Clubs like Swindon, will want to have time to spend the fee from selling Austin on a replacement ...that deal will happen quite soon I'm sure , but will it be us ..or ?

I'm not saying that Austin is our best target(I've not seen him play) but the clock ticks fast in the last few days, and we need to

have all areas covered for the second half of the season if we are to be certain of going up.

[Saint Fan CaM]

and according to some we are destined to fail unless we have 5 world class players sitting around as cover for every position.

 

And this is the key to the debate. You think there are some posters who are suggesting we sign 'X' number of players when this is not the case atall. Look at the performances and results of the games that exclude Lallana and Chaplow. For whatever reason the team does not do as well. Now look at the other casualties - Holmes, Hammond, Connolly. Then consider that Barnard might not be with us for much longer and that wantaway Puncheon might not either. All of a sudden our squad is looking somewhat weaker. You see, it's not about the numbers, it's all about the effects of not having the strength in depth in the squad. Fail to act and suffer the consequences. We don't need much more, but a midfielder with positional flexibility and pace appears to be essential at this point (depends on Lallana's injury) and a strong striker would also be good (but not absolutely necessary, depending on Barnards status).

[NickG]

I'm not arguing those figures, (I got the same totals) ...but they are history and offer no guarantees for the second half of the season.

 

Strikers are the most INCONSISTANT players in football- even when fit. Don't believe me..here's a few stats.(from In That Number )

 

2001-02 James Beattie had scored 10 goals by mid jan, was injured - missed 11 games and only scored 2 the rest of season.

2000.01 Beattie again scored 10 in 7 weeks upto Dec 31st ...and only once more the rest of the season.

01-02 Marian Pahars (bless him) 9 by New Year ...but only one more to end of season.

1991.92 Alan Shearer (you must recall him) 10 goals by New Year... but only 3 for rest of season.

1987-88 Danny Wallace 10 goals by the end of November but only once more by seasons end.

1965-66 Martin Chivers in promotion season had scored 30 goals by end of Feb. but didn't score again in last 12 games.I know they are all historical but you can find such examples almost every year...

 

The likes of George O'Brien, Ron Davies, Boyer, MacDougall and MLT were fairly consistant but we don't see their like so often.

Even if we buy a new striker, there's no saying the existing names will continue to hold their form...or stay injury-free.

 

name another club, at any level, who have as many players who could play striker to a high standard for that club's level?

[NickG]

And this is the key to the debate. You think there are some posters who are suggesting we sign 'X' number of players when this is not the case atall. Look at the performances and results of the games that exclude Lallana and Chaplow. For whatever reason the team does not do as well. Now look at the other casualties - Holmes, Hammond, Connolly. Then consider that Barnard might not be with us for much longer and that wantaway Puncheon might not either. All of a sudden our squad is looking somewhat weaker. You see, it's not about the numbers, it's all about the effects of not having the strength in depth in the squad. Fail to act and suffer the consequences. We don't need much more, but a midfielder with positional flexibility and pace appears to be essential at this point (depends on Lallana's injury) and a strong striker would also be good (but not absolutely necessary, depending on Barnards status).

 

if Adkins believes he will be without Lallana, Chaplow, Puncheon, Barnard. Holmes, Hammond amd Connolly and fails to act I would be surprised.

[PokingFun]

Can I just say now that if we only get a couple players in and then have a massive injury crisis, I don't want Alpine and others to start saying I told you so. It could happen to any team.

 

Agree, Huddersfield announced two injuries today ... one is to their goalkeeper who could be out for a while and is very highly rated. It happens to all teams.

[PokingFun]

Really mate, you are wasting your breath with a few of the people on here. According to them, promotion is nailed-on whatever happens to the squad.

 

Midfield ? Who needs it ??

 

We already have a very very strong midfield FFS. We have dominated in midfield virtually every game I have seen this season (I have been to nearly all home games so am placed to comment) but early season we could not buy a goal despite creating chances and plenty of them. We have Lallana, Oxo, Punch, Morgan, Hammond, Gobern, Chaplow, Guly, Butterfield, Dickson all very capable of playing in midfield positions. That does not look weak to me at all. Alpine, you're a one trick pony, everything we do rests on signing more players in your eyes and then if were not successful its because the players weren't motivated blah blah blah.

 

In defence we have very good players for each position plus the two keepers who are excellent for L1 level.

 

Up front is the only area where we might arguably strengthen given Connolly's brittle nature and the slight possibility that LB may not be available at some stage but even then if we have Guly signed then we would only need a maximum of one player in my opinion and even then I would want it to be someone that can get in the side and push for a place rather than be cover.

 

No-one is saying promotion is nailed on, most are simply seeing that the squad is strong enough to get promoted when you consider we are outscoring, outpointing and in a lot of cases lately outplaying opposition teams. I will say it again, if we do not go up it will not be anything to do with the strength of the squad's ability at all.

[PokingFun]

And this is the key to the debate. You think there are some posters who are suggesting we sign 'X' number of players when this is not the case atall. Look at the performances and results of the games that exclude Lallana and Chaplow. For whatever reason the team does not do as well. Now look at the other casualties - Holmes, Hammond, Connolly. Then consider that Barnard might not be with us for much longer and that wantaway Puncheon might not either. All of a sudden our squad is looking somewhat weaker. You see, it's not about the numbers, it's all about the effects of not having the strength in depth in the squad. Fail to act and suffer the consequences. We don't need much more, but a midfielder with positional flexibility and pace appears to be essential at this point (depends on Lallana's injury) and a strong striker would also be good (but not absolutely necessary, depending on Barnards status).

 

But this squad has significant strength in depth. Where on earth do you get the idea it has no strength in depth?

[Village Saint]

I'm not arguing those figures, (I got the same totals) ...but they are history and offer no guarantees for the second half of the season.

 

Strikers are the most INCONSISTANT players in football- even when fit. Don't believe me..here's a few stats.(from In That Number )

 

2001-02 James Beattie had scored 10 goals by mid jan, was injured - missed 11 games and only scored 2 the rest of season.

2000.01 Beattie again scored 10 in 7 weeks upto Dec 31st ...and only once more the rest of the season.

01-02 Marian Pahars (bless him) 9 by New Year ...but only one more to end of season.

1991.92 Alan Shearer (you must recall him) 10 goals by New Year... but only 3 for rest of season.

1987-88 Danny Wallace 10 goals by the end of November but only once more by seasons end.

1965-66 Martin Chivers in promotion season had scored 30 goals by end of Feb. but didn't score again in last 12 games.I know they are all historical but you can find such examples almost every year...

 

The likes of George O'Brien, Ron Davies, Boyer, MacDougall and MLT were fairly consistant but we don't see their like so often.

Even if we buy a new striker, there's no saying the existing names will continue to hold their form...or stay injury-free.

 

I certainly see your point and I agree it would be a total waste of money to get Austin in (not that there is any chance) as he would probably lose his scoring touch right away!

[aintforever]

If we had a couple of injuries up front I think a Guly/Connolly partnership couldn't be relied upon to score enough goals to get promoted.

 

Alot of people on here seem to forget that we are trying to finish in the top two, a couple of games where we fail to score could be the difference between going up or not. There is little room for error, we can't just assume we wont have injury problems and hope for the best.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

And this is the key to the debate. You think there are some posters who are suggesting we sign 'X' number of players when this is not the case atall. Look at the performances and results of the games that exclude Lallana and Chaplow. For whatever reason the team does not do as well. Now look at the other casualties - Holmes, Hammond, Connolly. Then consider that Barnard might not be with us for much longer and that wantaway Puncheon might not either. All of a sudden our squad is looking somewhat weaker. You see, it's not about the numbers, it's all about the effects of not having the strength in depth in the squad. Fail to act and suffer the consequences. We don't need much more, but a midfielder with positional flexibility and pace appears to be essential at this point (depends on Lallana's injury) and a strong striker would also be good (but not absolutely necessary, depending on Barnards status).

 

The above post is a great big steaming pile of ....... pure common sense.

 

Unfortunately some will still profess to disagree with you not because in their heart of hearts they really think you're wrong, but rather on the basis of having (very) publicly nailed their colours to the 'we don't need any more signings' mast they now are desperately keen to avoid being caught out on the wrong side of the argument.

Some on here (no names, no pack drill) have found themselves in that uncomfortable position on so many occasions now that one can quite understand their apparent eagerness to see their luck change ....

[Turkish]

And this is the key to the debate. You think there are some posters who are suggesting we sign 'X' number of players when this is not the case atall. Look at the performances and results of the games that exclude Lallana and Chaplow. For whatever reason the team does not do as well. Now look at the other casualties - Holmes, Hammond, Connolly. Then consider that Barnard might not be with us for much longer and that wantaway Puncheon might not either. All of a sudden our squad is looking somewhat weaker. You see, it's not about the numbers, it's all about the effects of not having the strength in depth in the squad. Fail to act and suffer the consequences. We don't need much more, but a midfielder with positional flexibility and pace appears to be essential at this point (depends on Lallana's injury) and a strong striker would also be good (but not absolutely necessary, depending on Barnards status).

 

As i've said numerous times and getting bored with repeating myself, if no one leaves we are good enough for promotion with what we have, if player do then we need to look at it and act. No one knows the extent of Lallanas injury yet but everyone is panicing that we are going to go on a slump without him, same with Chaplow. For all we know they might be back saturday or they might be out all season. Again no one knows Barnards situation, although i am sure NA will have taken advice of his legal team and be aware of potential sentances and court dates, believe it or not people dont get charged one day and sentanced the next, it can take months to bring a trial to crown court, if indeed it goes that far.

NA and NC know what they are doing if we have season long injuries and people being banged up then for years then then obviously signings or loans will need to come in and i'd expect NA to act on this, but we dont know and there is no point buying "cover" players if Lallana is going to be back in two or three weeks and Barnard does even face trial until july. Some people just bang on and on that we need cover here there and everywhere and are speculating on what ifs and worst case senarios, demanding like for like cover players without actually thinking of the bigger picture and what the club is trying to achieve. Maybe, just maybe we have made "substancial bids" because the manager wants players better than what we have, not just bench warmers incase of injuries.

So to put it in very simple terms to spell it out for some in bullet points.

 

* If no one leaves or gets crocked for the season the squad is good enough for promotion

* If players do leave or get crocked for the season i would expect suitable replacements to be purchased

* If no one leaves or gets crocked for the season i would be delighted if we signed two or three players of the quality to improve the first team squad for more options and depth, ie Charlie Austin and Ryan Harley

* if no one leaves or gets crocked for the season i do not see the point in buying players to sit on the bench in case of injuries, because the type of player that will be happy to do this will either be 1/worse than what we have already 2/not the type of mentality you need for a title winning side. I will cavet this though with if we sign a very promising young player similar to Aaron Martin who is happy to be part of the squad and a prospect for the future then that is fine.

[Turkish]

The above post is a great big steaming pile of ....... pure common sense.

 

Unfortunately some will still profess to disagree with you not because in their heart of hearts they really think you're wrong, but rather on the basis of having (very) publicly nailed their colours to the 'we don't need any more signings' mast they now are desperately keen to avoid being caught out on the wrong side of the argument.

Some on here (no names, no pack drill) have found themselves in that uncomfortable position on so many occasions now that one can quite understand their apparent eagerness to see their luck change ....

 

F*ck i cant be bothered to debate this anymore, you're all f*cking right, rather than looking at signing decent players better than we have and improving the squad lets just sign loads of squad players worse than what we have on long contracts to act as cover players so in three years time we've got 30 league one players playing in the Championship earning £5k-£7k a week and we can all slag them off as being sh*t and wonder why we are a stuggling championship side and not in the premier league.

Edited 19 January, 2011 by Turkish

[Turkish]

But this squad has significant strength in depth. Where on earth do you get the idea it has no strength in depth?

 

because we drew 0-0 saturday with the most in form side in the league.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

F*ck i cant be bothered to debate this anymore,

 

Excellent news, go away then.

[Turkish]

Excellent news, go away then.

 

Look at you piping up at the last minute with you usual arrogant nonsense, going to contribute something worthwhile?

Edited 19 January, 2011 by Turkish

[alpine_saint]

We have Lallana, Oxo, Punch, Morgan, Hammond, Gobern, Chaplow, Guly, Butterfield, Dickson all very capable of playing in midfield positions.

 

Do we ?? Let's go through that super midfield line up one-by-one:

 

Lallana - injured

Oxo - could be sold

Puncheon - could be sold

Schneiderlin - quality midfielder when he turns up

Hammond - injured

Chaplow - injured

Gobern - has potential, but spearheading a promotion drive ? Do leave it out

Goolie - hasnt he been playing further forward than midfield ?

Butterfield - hasnt set the world alight

Dickson - also hasnt set the world alight

 

So in theory our midfield could be Goolie, Schneiderlin, Gobern or Butterfield, Dickson come the end of the transfer window.

 

Forgive me if I dont exactly wet myself in excitement. That midfield wont get us promoted.

[alpine_saint]

Look at you piping up at the last minute with you usual arrogant nonsense, going to contribute something worthwhile?

 

Higher probability of him doing so than you.

[Chez]

Do we ?? Let's go through that super midfield line up one-by-one:

 

Lallana - injured

Oxo - could be sold

Puncheon - could be sold

Schneiderlin - quality midfielder when he turns up

Hammond - injured

Chaplow - injured

Gobern - has potential, but spearheading a promotion drive ? Do leave it out

Goolie - hasnt he been playing further forward than midfield ?

Butterfield - hasnt set the world alight

Dickson - also hasnt set the world alight

 

So in theory our midfield could be Goolie, Schneiderlin, Gobern or Butterfield, Dickson come the end of the transfer window.

 

Forgive me if I dont exactly wet myself in excitement. That midfield wont get us promoted.

 

which midfield is that, the probable, possible or theoretical one?

Edited 19 January, 2011 by Chez

[NickG]

Do we ?? Let's go through that super midfield line up one-by-one:

 

Lallana - injuredfor how long

Oxo - could be sold

Puncheon - could be sold

Schneiderlin - quality midfielder when he turns upwhich is most games

Hammond - injuredfor how long?

Chaplow - injuredfor how long?

Gobern - has potential, but spearheading a promotion drive ? Do leave it outdefinately not but looked decent as 4th choice CM for league 1 side

Goolie - hasnt he been playing further forward than midfield ?yes

Butterfield - hasnt set the world alightwhat don't you rate about him?

Dickson - also hasnt set the world alightwhat don't you rate about him?

 

So in theory our midfield could be Goolie, Schneiderlin, Gobern or Butterfield, Dickson come the end of the transfer window.

 

Forgive me if I dont exactly wet myself in excitement. That midfield wont get us promoted.

 

I would be stunned if we start with that midfield this season.

[Turkish]

Higher probability of him doing so than you.

 

Your obession with me is becoming rather worrying. Sitting behind your PC all day everyday arguing with people on the internet about things you only have third hand knowledge of is not the answer Alps. Angrily and busily tapping away at your keyboard wont raise your heart rate enough for you to burn enough calories to fit into a normal sized replica shirt that you dream of. It's time to take a step back from the anger and bitterness that seems to encapsulate you everytime you see one of my posts. Maybe turn off the computer for a couple of days, put the 2 litre bottle of full fat coke back in the fridge, thrpow out the burgers and frozen pizza, seal up the multi pack bag of Mccoys crisps and get rid of the chocolate bars. It's time to get out and sample some of that Austrain countryside, pull on the trainers and get out there seeing a bit of the country you live in. You'll benifit from it, in fact it is scientically proven that you exercising can help you with this.....

Improved self-esteem and greater sense of self-reliance and self-confidence

Improved mental alertness, perception and information processing

Increased perceptions of acceptance by others

Decreased overall feelings of stress and tension

Reduced frustration with daily problems, and a more constructive response to disappointments and failures

 

I can sense all these things on you so maybe thats the answer you have been looking for Alps? Give it a go, get out there and i can help you, depsite our fragile relationship, i'll support you through it all, it hurts me when we argue, i feel like i am stamping on a puppy with a broken leg.

Edited 19 January, 2011 by Turkish

[Turkish]

which midfield is that, the probable, possible or theoretical one?

 

Its the one based on speculation, worst case scenarios and an incapable manager who will sell off our best players and not replace them.

[NickG]

I agree with Alpine in that if we sell 2 of our first choice midfielders and 3 others are out for the season then we probably do need to recruit.

 

Hope Adkins realises it

[Dig Dig]

I agree with Alpine in that if we sell 2 of our first choice midfielders and 3 others are out for the season then we probably do need to recruit.

 

Hope Adkins realises it

 

Don't be such a wrist slitter, a midfield of dickson, butters, Gobern and wotten (im assuming Morgan will be injured or sold) will see us all the way to the prem!

[Saint Fan CaM]

So to put it in very simple terms to spell it out for some in bullet points.

 

* If no one leaves or gets crocked for the season the squad is good enough for promotion. Got news for you - we've got a few crocked players already! LOL

* If players do leave or get crocked for the season i would expect suitable replacements to be purchased. When pray tell? How will NA know when to act? At the end of the season?! I'll give you a clue - we're in a transfer window. LOL

* If no one leaves or gets crocked for the season i would be delighted if we signed two or three players of the quality to improve the first team squad for more options and depth, ie Charlie Austin and Ryan Harley. If no-one leaves or gets crocked, we only need to sign Guly and sell no-one. Now who's suggesting bloating the squad?!?! LOL

* if no one leaves or gets crocked for the season i do not see the point in buying players to sit on the bench in case of injuries, because the type of player that will be happy to do this will either be 1/worse than what we have already 2/not the type of mentality you need for a title winning side. I will cavet this though with if we sign a very promising young player similar to Aaron Martin who is happy to be part of the squad and a prospect for the future then that is fine. Well that's OK then - you've finally found a point of agreement with everyone else, as no-one is suggesting we buy bench warmers. LOL

 

I've highlighted some simple points, very simply for you above - HTH.