Ed Milliband

[CB Saint]

Christ Dune is on one today - the british raj? Jesus wept.

[LGTL]

It is somewhat ironic that the Tories increase Tuition Fees with one hand and promote the studying of core subjects only with the other...

[dune]

Christ Dune is on one today - the british raj? Jesus wept.

 

If you think about it what Britain did in India is how you should run a business.

 

1. You need good logistics and communications.

2. You need to empower the natural leaders to work for you.

[Deppo]

3. You need indentured slaves to bring you tiffin.

[dune]

3. You need indentured slaves to bring you tiffin.

 

Good morning Deppo. You're up bright and early.

[Johnny Bognor]

The core subjects should remain just that. However, as on the continent, young people should also have the option of studying non academic topics alongside them from 14/15 upwards. Why force non academic kids to study History & French, which they will simply turn off from. You cannot make a 15/16 year old learn when they really don't give a fat rat's arse.

 

More focus on the core subjects up to 16 would mean that folk like myself wouldn't have to teach the current crop of school leavers the basics of maths and English when they get onto FE!

 

The NC does need an overhaul but decent vocational courses should be valued as they really do help a large percentage of young people.

 

I am glad you sort of agree.

 

The caller into the Gove phone in (Not a fan of Gove, he is wooden, looks like a thunderbird puppet and is arrogant) tried to make the point that all subjects are the same. I would prefer that youngsters were more profficient in maths and english (the basics to get on in life) than breed a nation of Richard Cladymans.

 

By all means we should have options for non critical subjects, but the focus should be on these core subjects. You really shouldn't be teaching adults maths and English as this should have been done properly during schooling.

 

From my personal experience, I found the most interesting subjects at school were down to the quality of the teachers. Some had the natural ability to engage pupils and make the most boring of subjects interesting and even fun. Whilst others, made fun and interesting subjects seem boring. So for me, the teachers were far more important than the subject matter in itself.

 

I would like to see more vocational courses at school and college, whilst seeing a return to apprentiships. Whilst the liberals amongst us view that education is about expanding the mind, I prefer to view it as preparing people for work (whilst they are still free to expand their minds in their own time, should they wish).

Edited 15 January, 2011 by Johnny Bognor

[dune]

From my personal experience, I found the most interesting subjects were down to the quality of the teachers. Some have the natural ability to engage pupils and make the most boring of subjects interesting. Whilst others, made interesting subjects seem boring.

 

For me it was 50/50 between what you've said and the curriculum. Take Geography (a subject i'm interested in) when I was at school it was very boring - counting cars and timing how long it took a stick to float under a bridge on a field trip. Geography should be about learning capital cities and mountain ranges and stuff like that.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

The core subjects should remain just that. However, as on the continent, young people should also have the option of studying non academic topics alongside them from 14/15 upwards. Why force non academic kids to study History & French, which they will simply turn off from. You cannot make a 15/16 year old learn when they really don't give a fat rat's arse.

 

More focus on the core subjects up to 16 would mean that folk like myself wouldn't have to teach the current crop of school leavers the basics of maths and English when they get onto FE!

 

The NC does need an overhaul but decent vocational courses should be valued as they really do help a large percentage of young people.

 

The most sensible post on this thread so far

[Deppo]

Good morning Deppo. You're up bright and early.

 

I never sleep.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

If you think about it what Britain did in India is how you should run a business.

 

1. You need good logistics and communications.

2. You need to empower the natural leaders to work for you.

 

The Raj only took place AFTER we massacred the sepoys and their families for daring to question our commitment in interfering with their culture. What you described took place before that.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

To be fair to Michael Gove, all subjects are not equal. The basics of English and Maths are far more important than playing the piano. If we want to compete as a nation on a global scale, core subjects will enable us to do that.

 

The guy phoning in, and he said this a few times, wasn't questioning the value of English and maths. What he was upset about was Gove's persistence that subjects such as MFL and the humanities should be given preference over vocational courses even when the pupil concerned had no interest, inclination or will to persist at them. For these pupils, vocational courses are a life line.

[Deppo]

Geography should be about learning capital cities and mountain ranges and stuff like that.

 

Exactly. I've lost count of the number of times I've needed to know the name of a capital city at work and I haven't had any access to tools to find it out.

[um pahars]

By all means we should have options for non critical subjects, but the focus should be on these core subjects. You really shouldn't be teaching adults maths and English as this should have been done properly during schooling.

 

But I think the problem is that Gove has effectively made Geography/History and French/German/Latin core subjects as schools and students will be shoehorned to include these on top of what I would deem core (English, Maths & Science). With schools being judged in league tables on the English Baccalaureate, there will most definitely be a push to put students through these extra subjects irrespective of their desire or ability. Year 9 Options will be a thing of the past!!

 

Whilst this might appeal to "middle England" and those who believe the 3 r's should be backed up by "robust" academic subjects, I just can't help but think that we have restricted choice and are forcing a sterile/uninspiring and worst of all an "old fashioned" curriculum that does not take in to account the changing skills required by our future generations. There was some research that stated that many of the professions/jobs that our 5 year olds will be entering in to don't even exist at the moment, so we should be looking forward, not emulating a historical version of the curriculum that served Gove and his compatriots so well. Where is ICT or other forward looking subjects in his "core" list?

 

I can see where Gove thinks he is coming from as ten years ago I might have agreed with him in that I believed students should have a "rounded education" taking in the main aspects of the curriculum e.g. English, Maths, Sciences, Humanities, Culture etc, and given them a rounded grounding in these areas. However, since being at the coalface I now realise that just like Gove, my ideas of a rounded education were solely based on my experience in school (generally successful, interested in these subjects, good experience, supportive family and peer group etc).

 

Not all students are like Gove or myself (that's scary, comparing myself to Gove!!!) and whilst I believe certain subjects should be mandatory there needs to be greater flexibility to allow students to pursue subjects they enjoy, excel at, or that are more needed in the workplace. Forcing little Declan to do French and History when he would rather follow/be better suited to/be better served to follow a vocational route just does not sit well with me.

 

I fully subscribe to Maths, English & Sciences being held up as core subjects and believe more should be done to improve the numeracy and literacy of our future generations (that said, schools can only do so much and responsibility has to be shared by parents, families and wider society).

 

What makes it worse is the breakneck speed of these changes which seem to have been undertaken with minimal research and/or consultation (and that's before we get on to the concept of judging schools by a target that never existed when last years Year 11's started their GCSE's).

[Johnny Bognor]

But I think the problem is that Gove has effectively made Geography/History and French/German/Latin core subjects as schools and students will be shoehorned to include these on top of what I would deem core (English, Maths & Science). With schools being judged in league tables on the English Baccalaureate, there will most definitely be a push to put students through these extra subjects irrespective of their desire or ability. Year 9 Options will be a thing of the past!!

 

In the globalised world in which we live, foreign languages are more important than ever, once the basics of English have been grasped. I did Latin at school and whilst it is not widely spoken, it teaches you the basic structures of all languages (incuding IT/software) and instills a sense of logic which can be cleary seen in my posting style.

 

I would rather see mandarin and cantonese (even Hindi and Russia) taught over French and German as these are the languages of the future.

 

This kind looks forward, as you suggest.

 

As to pursuing subjects you enjoy, I personally believe that this can come down to the teacher of that given subject in a school - an inspirational teacher can make any subject sound interesting.

 

I wouldn't compare yourself to Gove, unless you could have been an extra in Thunderbirds

 

Michael Gove

 

 

Um Pahars

Edited 15 January, 2011 by Johnny Bognor

[um pahars]

In the globalised world in which we live, foreign languages are more important than ever, once the basics of English have been grasped. I did Latin at school and whilst it is not widely spoken, it teaches you the basic structures of all languages (incuding IT/software) and instills a sense of logic which can be cleary seen in my posting style.

 

I would rather see mandarin and cantonese (even Hindi and Russia) taught over French and German as these are the languages of the future.

 

I agree in that MFL ceratinly has a place in the curriculum and that for some it is a very worthwhile qualification. I also agree on looking forward and pursuing a language that has relevance in the globalised economy.

 

That said, I don't see the relevance or to someone who is struggling with their own language (along with numeracy), nor do I see the relvance to many of our youngsters with regards taking up their positon in the workforce.

 

It's the straightjacketing that I am against and the desire to build "a one size fits all" curriculum.

 

As to pursuing subjects you enjoy, I personally believe that this can come down to the teacher of that given subject in a school - an inspirational teacher can make any subject sound interesting.

 

Obvioulsy there is a large degree of truth there, but (a) not every teacher is going to be inspiring (sad, but true and totally unrealistic to expect IMHO), (b) whilst I believe there should be an acceptance that not everything at school will be enjoyable for all, I do think there has to be an opportunity for kids to do things they like and try subjects that might inspire and push them (even if that is for a minority of the time), after all it's not a Gulag and © my main thrust was about pursuing subjects that are relevant, rewarding and ones that provide them with skills and opportunities in their roles as future employees.

 

 

 

I wouldn't compare yourself to Gove, unless you could have been an extra in Thunderbirds

 

I do have large(ish) eyebrows!!!!

[Deppo]

I think they should make people who bang on about how schools should be run go and work in a school for a month, teaching those horrible little kids.

[um pahars]

I think they should make people who bang on about how schools should be run go and work in a school for a month, teaching those horrible little kids.

 

Gove has never visited a Further Education College (he admitted this in the Commons last week) and the School's Minister has visited 1 Primary School in 6 months. You may have a point there (but would not agree with "horrible little kids" quote LOL).

[Johnny Bognor]

I think they should make people who bang on about how schools should be run go and work in a school for a month, teaching those horrible little kids.

 

I think you're right Deppo. How silly of me. Obviously having two kids in the education system, employing the end product of the education system and paying my taxes which goes towards funding the system gives me no right to form, hold and express an opinion.

 

Now, can you go on the main board and tell everyone that unless they are / have been a professional footballer / manager / coach, that they have to sign up for a professional club before spouting off on the internet?

[Deppo]

I think you're right Deppo. How silly of me. Obviously having two kids in the education system, employing the end product of the education system and paying my taxes which goes towards funding the system gives me no right to form, hold and express an opinion.

 

Now, can you go on the main board and tell everyone that unless they are / have been a professional footballer / manager / coach, that they have to sign up for a professional club before spouting off on the internet?

 

I'm glad you agree that it would be equally as nonsensical for educators to take your advice on schools as it would be for Nigel Adkins to take the advice of the forum on football matters.

[Verbal]

I think you're right Deppo. How silly of me. Obviously having two kids in the education system, employing the end product of the education system and paying my taxes which goes towards funding the system gives me no right to form, hold and express an opinion.

 

Now, can you go on the main board and tell everyone that unless they are / have been a professional footballer / manager / coach, that they have to sign up for a professional club before spouting off on the internet?

 

I think Deppo's point about experience was aimed at the dweebish, barely competent Gove, who I can't imagine entering an FE college without holding his nose. You of course are entitled to your opinion - although I'm surprised you're a taxpayer.

[Johnny Bognor]

I think Deppo's point about experience was aimed at the dweebish, barely competent Gove, who I can't imagine entering an FE college without holding his nose. You of course are entitled to your opinion - although I'm surprised you're a taxpayer.

 

I pay my fair share as I'm a caring kind of guy

[Verbal]

Now Ed has won over the Lib Dems as well as Labour. More LibDem voters support him than Clegg.

 

At this rate, it's going to be a very short march back to power.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/9453664

[bridge too far]

Now Ed has won over the Lib Dems as well as Labour. More LibDem voters support him than Clegg.

 

At this rate, it's going to be a very short march back to power.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/9453664

 

Even dear old Dr David is seeing the light!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12201106

[SuperMikey]

The large swing that the Lib Dems got at the last election will go straight back to Labour at this rate - both coalition parties have lost a hell of a lot of support from young voters over tuition fees etc.

I'd love there to be a proper socialist government, not the 'New Labour' or 'Thatcher-lite' governments we've had over the years. It's the 70s all over again!

[Special K]

The large swing that the Lib Dems got at the last election will go straight back to Labour at this rate - both coalition parties have lost a hell of a lot of support from young voters over tuition fees etc.

I'd love there to be a proper socialist government, not the 'New Labour' or 'Thatcher-lite' governments we've had over the years. It's the 70s all over again!

 

You could be right; Miliband has already tried to alienate the unions and he'll probably need a Lib-Lab pact too, at some stage.

[dune]

I'd love there to be a proper socialist government.

 

It would be a disaster for the country.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I think you'll find the conservatives have saved the country from the public sector. I was delighted to see that Manchester council are cutting 20% of the work force because we all know that councils have created countless made up jobs over the past 13 years. It's about time tax payers got value for money.

 

Anyone delighted about 2000 people losing their jobs is one sick c-u-n-t. I realise you are a sad pathetic racist troll and that you will be spunking over your keyboard at the response to your post but you clearly have no understanding of the effects of these cuts will have on the most vulnerable people in society. In your deluded disturbed world it will be thier own fault for voting Labour and living in the north and they can now spend their lives in Victorian style workhouses to earn their benefits.

[SuperMikey]

Anyone delighted about 2000 people losing their jobs is one sick c-u-n-t. I realise you are a sad pathetic racist troll and that you will be spunking over your keyboard at the response to your post but you clearly have no understanding of the effects of these cuts will have on the most vulnerable people in society. In your deluded disturbed world it will be thier own fault for voting Labour and living in the north and they can now spend their lives in Victorian style workhouses to earn their benefits.

 

+1

 

Too many people are looking at this as statistics, 20% here, 45% there. In reality, it's tens of thousands of innocent people losing their jobs and it's nothing to get excited about or hail as a great victory for the Coalition. God only knows what's going to happen with the 410k people losing their jobs in the public sector, I doubt they'll be able to find jobs in the private sector because they're cutting there as well. When the Great Depression hit the US in the 30s, the US Government created masses of job creation schemes, training people in useful vocations and creating thousands of jobs for them to combat the scores of job losses suffered when everything collapsed. I don't think the Coalition will be doing that, do you?

[dune]

Anyone delighted about 2000 people losing their jobs is one sick c-u-n-t. I realise you are a sad pathetic racist troll and that you will be spunking over your keyboard at the response to your post but you clearly have no understanding of the effects of these cuts will have on the most vulnerable people in society. In your deluded disturbed world it will be thier own fault for voting Labour and living in the north and they can now spend their lives in Victorian style workhouses to earn their benefits.

 

As a taxpayer I do have some sympathy for the people in made up non jobs that will have to find a real job, but also as tax payer I don't want to pay high taxes to keep these people in their non jobs. I applaud the coalition for tackling Labours mess head on and making difficult decisions for the good of the country.

[trousers]

Anyone delighted about 2000 people losing their jobs is one sick c-u-n-t.

 

I could be wrong but I believe Dune was "delighted" that 2,000 jobs which, according to some people, were largely created over the last 13 years to help bolster the employment figures (as opposed to being absolutely necessary posts), are now under scrutiny.

 

Yes, there is an inevitable human impact and, by implication, Dune was being unsympathetic about that, but I think Dune was looking at it purely objectively (long term big picture) rather than emotively (short term human impact).

 

The coalition's theory (whether we choose to believe it or not) is that the majority of people whose jobs in the public sector are considered 'non-essential' will find jobs in an expanding private sector. Of course, that theory may work, or it may not. We don't know one way or the other yet.

[buctootim]

+1

 

When the Great Depression hit the US in the 30s, the US Government created masses of job creation schemes, training people in useful vocations and creating thousands of jobs for them to combat the scores of job losses suffered when everything collapsed. I don't think the Coalition will be doing that, do you?

 

Counter cyclical government spending is the obvious best way to manage things for the interests of the country instead of the party - higher government spending during a recession paid for by the surplus built up during a boom. Governments of all shades have become more cynical, now have have 'vote winning' irresponsible spending and tax cuts.

Edited 17 January, 2011 by buctootim

[Johnny Bognor]

+1

 

Too many people are looking at this as statistics, 20% here, 45% there. In reality, it's tens of thousands of innocent people losing their jobs and it's nothing to get excited about or hail as a great victory for the Coalition. God only knows what's going to happen with the 410k people losing their jobs in the public sector, I doubt they'll be able to find jobs in the private sector because they're cutting there as well. When the Great Depression hit the US in the 30s, the US Government created masses of job creation schemes, training people in useful vocations and creating thousands of jobs for them to combat the scores of job losses suffered when everything collapsed. I don't think the Coalition will be doing that, do you?

 

Hi SuperDuper Mikey,

 

Your concern is really touching. Shame you didn't give a toss when 1 million private sector workers (many of them the lowest paid in society) lost their jobs between 2007 and 2009. I didn't hear any of the lefties on here protesting about the increase in employers NI which is a direct taxation on job creation at a time when jobs needed to be created.

 

A million people lose their jobs and not a murmour from the lefties.

 

As some consolation, many of the public sector workers losing their jobs will get favourable terms compared to someone in the private sector, losing their job when a company folds where they is no redundancy and unpaid salary.

 

It seems to me that lefties only care about public sector workers, who are far better paid and far better protected than their private sector counterparts, but I suppose it is a case of "look after your own".

[dune]

It seems to me that lefties only care about public sector workers, who are far better paid and far better protected than their private sector counterparts, but I suppose it is a case of "look after your own".

 

The way I see it the more our left wing comrades complain the better. It shows that the government are dispensing the medicine properly.

[Johnny Bognor]

The way I see it the more our left wing comrades complain the better. It shows that the government are dispensing the medicine properly.

 

...but I thought socialism was about everyone, not just public sector workers.

[dune]

...but I thought socialism was about everyone, not just public sector workers.

 

I thought that too, but isn't it amazing how our pet lefties never broke a sweat when private sector workers were feeling the pinch. They don't care about the country, all they care about is protecting their plod along made up jobs.

[View From The Top]

I'm sure everyone is equally delighted at the 1000 front line police officers losing their jobs in the West Midlands force.

 

Or equally delighted that a minimum of one childrens centre per town/city is to be closed.

 

Of course, these are non essential services that no one will miss.

 

Whilst I accept that the terminally thick as f**k don't get it, I thought better of some of the more sensible right wingers. Prehaps I misjudged their sense of understanding. A pity.

[View From The Top]

Hi SuperDuper Mikey,

 

Your concern is really touching. Shame you didn't give a toss when 1 million private sector workers (many of them the lowest paid in society) lost their jobs between 2007 and 2009. I didn't hear any of the lefties on here protesting about the increase in employers NI which is a direct taxation on job creation at a time when jobs needed to be created.

 

A million people lose their jobs and not a murmour from the lefties.

As some consolation, many of the public sector workers losing their jobs will get favourable terms compared to someone in the private sector, losing their job when a company folds where they is no redundancy and unpaid salary.

 

It seems to me that lefties only care about public sector workers, who are far better paid and far better protected than their private sector counterparts, but I suppose it is a case of "look after your own".

 

Even you don't believe that surely?

 

Many of us have partners/friends who lost their jobs and are you suggesting we didn't care? Never had you down as being so pathetically dogmatic.

 

A pity, thought more of you.

[SuperMikey]

Hi SuperDuper Mikey,

 

Your concern is really touching. Shame you didn't give a toss when 1 million private sector workers (many of them the lowest paid in society) lost their jobs between 2007 and 2009. I didn't hear any of the lefties on here protesting about the increase in employers NI which is a direct taxation on job creation at a time when jobs needed to be created.

 

A million people lose their jobs and not a murmour from the lefties.

 

As some consolation, many of the public sector workers losing their jobs will get favourable terms compared to someone in the private sector, losing their job when a company folds where they is no redundancy and unpaid salary.

 

It seems to me that lefties only care about public sector workers, who are far better paid and far better protected than their private sector counterparts, but I suppose it is a case of "look after your own".

 

I wasn't really paying attention to politics back in 2007, mainly due to the fact that I was 15. That was a hell of a tougher time for industry than it is now however, the recession was hitting and people were losing their jobs left, right and centre due to everything collapsing. That was a series of last-ditch attempts by companies to avoid the crash, but it didn't happen and just made everything a lot worse. Now it seems the economy is back on its feet, but still we need to jettison almost half a million public sector workers? I find it hard to believe tbh. But that's just me.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

A million people lose their jobs and not a murmour from the lefties.

 

 

It seems to me that lefties only care about public sector workers, who are far better paid and far better protected than their private sector counterparts, but I suppose it is a case of "look after your own".

 

you are thicker than i thought if you really believe that.

[dune]

I wasn't really paying attention to politics back in 2007, mainly due to the fact that I was 15.

 

And now you're 19 1/4 you're an expert on everything.

[Wade Garrett]

In the globalised world in which we live, foreign languages are more important than ever, once the basics of English have been grasped. I did Latin at school and whilst it is not widely spoken, it teaches you the basic structures of all languages (incuding IT/software) and instills a sense of logic which can be cleary seen in my posting style.

 

 

Latin, or any other foreign language, in no way gives you the basic structure for any programming language. That sounds like a myth peddled by Latin teachers.

 

I would prefer my daughters to learn languages that they might actually use in the future.

[buctootim]

Latin, or any other foreign language, in no way gives you the basic structure for any programming language. That sounds like a myth peddled by Latin teachers.

 

I would prefer my daughters to learn languages that they might actually use in the future.

 

Latin is a waste of time unless you are going into medicine or law, and even then you'd be better spending the time freed up from latin on biology, chemistry or law itself.

[bridge too far]

Latin is a waste of time unless you are going into medicine or law, and even then you'd be better spending the time freed up from latin on biology, chemistry or law itself.

 

I'm glad I learnt Latin at school (although I wasn't very good at it). It helps in so many ways, and its benefits are not confined to just learning a 'dead' language.

[buctootim]

I'm glad I learnt Latin at school (although I wasn't very good at it). It helps in so many ways, and its benefits are not confined to just learning a 'dead' language.

 

I spent two years learning it and cant think of any concrete instances where is has been useful. Yes I know it forms the basis for the romance languages and is still use in some professions, but two years spent learning the basics of Spanish for example would have been much more useful to me.

[bridge too far]

I spent two years learning it and cant think of any concrete instances where is has been useful. Yes I know it forms the basis for the romance languages and is still use in some professions, but two years spent learning the basics of Spanish for example would have been much more useful to me.

 

I know what you mean. I often wish I'd learned Spanish and / or Italian at school but, with a fair knowledge of French and the remnants of the Latin I learned, I find I can at least understand both these languages at a basic level, even if I can't construct sentences correctly.

[Special K]

I spent two years learning it and cant think of any concrete instances where is has been useful. Yes I know it forms the basis for the romance languages and is still use in some professions, but two years spent learning the basics of Spanish for example would have been much more useful to me.

 

2 years spent learning latin would have given you a very good start in learning Spanish, which of course, is a romance language.

 

As an influence on modern european languages, those who learn latin generally find it easier to pick up an understanding of those languages. I think it's use should not be downplayed at all.

[franny]

The core subjects should remain just that. However, as on the continent, young people should also have the option of studying non academic topics alongside them from 14/15 upwards. Why force non academic kids to study History & French, which they will simply turn off from. You cannot make a 15/16 year old learn when they really don't give a fat rat's arse.

 

More focus on the core subjects up to 16 would mean that folk like myself wouldn't have to teach the current crop of school leavers the basics of maths and English when they get onto FE!

 

The NC does need an overhaul but decent vocational courses should be valued as they really do help a large percentage of young people.

 

I think I generally agree with this but it makes me think that this is sort of back to where we were in the 60's with basic education for all, practical/vocational subjects and then technical college for those who wanted that route then sixth form/uni for those who wanted that route. Always thought that a notional target for uni was barmy, those that will benefit should go those that will do better elsewhere should not. My sons mate went to uni because it was the thing to do, after 18 months dropped out then took up an apprenticeship for which he was always better suited and he is now a qualified boat builder enjpying what he is doing rather than like a fish out of water at Uni.

On the issue of teaching Maths & English to those in FE - I was amazed a couple of years ago when I was invovled in some work at HMS Raleigh in Plymouth to be told that many of the recruits going in there then had to attend these lessons in these subjects to bring them up to the required standard for the Navy. Pretty sad really that the system (schools, government, teachers all have varying part in it) has let so many down over the years.

[Wade Garrett]

2 years spent learning latin would have given you a very good start in learning Spanish, which of course, is a romance language.

 

As an influence on modern european languages, those who learn latin generally find it easier to pick up an understanding of those languages. I think it's use should not be downplayed at all.

 

2 years learning Spanish would have given you a very good start in learning Spanish.

[Special K]

2 years learning Spanish would have given you a very good start in learning Spanish.

 

Indeed, but he had already spent 2 years learning Latin, when he wanted to learn Spanish. I was just trying to see if there was a positive in all this.

[Johnny Bognor]

Even you don't believe that surely?

 

Many of us have partners/friends who lost their jobs and are you suggesting we didn't care? Never had you down as being so pathetically dogmatic.

 

A pity, thought more of you.

 

To be fair, I didn't say that you didn't 'care' so to speak. I guess the point I was trying to make was that in the world of the SWF Lounge, there was little out pouring of grief. I brought this subject up last year before the election on numerous occasions. Lefties generally bang on about the public sector, whilst they do not pay too much credence to the 1m+ that have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. It's just an observation and it doesn't seem fair to me.