dune Posted 13 January, 2011 Author Posted 13 January, 2011 They are divided into those who can spell and those who can't. Go Mr Personality. Now answer the question.
Saintandy666 Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 why do you make that sound as if cameron "and his chums" would be the only people to do this.. Because only Cameron and ''his chums'' would cut the state as much as they are going to when actually it is not needed! http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=206 Our massive deficit only appeared when the credit crunch began because Labour decided to spend through it rather than let people suffer. The idea that Labour were irresponsible with money for 13 years is a fallacy. We don't need to cut as much as we are doing at present, as the economy will grow and the stimulation will no longer be needed. Half of the cuts the Tories are doing are ideological, not necessary.
Special K Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 The party has a long history of that. And why not? Unless you somehow think it is simply impossible to think outside of your own class interests, which would be a truly odd idea. Absolutely, since the party was taken from the working class, intellectual powerhouses (Kinnock aside) have been at the helm. So far be it from me to suggest the intellectual left (or those that show intellect and are left leaning) do not have the capacity to rationally embrace the needs and beliefs of those who belong to a different class. I'm glad they have felt our pain.
Saintandy666 Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 You have such a suspicious mind. I'm also probably right.
Verbal Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 Absolutely, since the party was taken from the working class, intellectual powerhouses (Kinnock aside) have been at the helm. So far be it from me to suggest the intellectual left (or those that show intellect and are left leaning) do not have the capacity to rationally embrace the needs and beliefs of those who belong to a different class. I'm glad they have felt our pain. What on earth does 'taken from the working class' actually mean? And if it is, as you say, 'your pain', you should by your argument act in your class interests and support Labour over Tory.
buctootim Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 What on earth does 'taken from the working class' actually mean? And if it is, as you say, 'your pain', you should by your argument act in your class interests and support Labour over Tory. Seems like Ketamine has dulled his pain and reasoning.
Special K Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 What on earth does 'taken from the working class' actually mean? And if it is, as you say, 'your pain', you should by your argument act in your class interests and support Labour over Tory. My history of the Labour Party is a little sketchy, but i think Attlee was the first labour leader from outside the working class. Up til then, all the leaders were good, honest working class fellas from tough backgrounds, who, instead of studying it, empathising with it and vicariously adopting it - they actually lived it. OK, i'll confess, i'm being churlish just to provoke the obvious and expected reaction. Good to see you're still biting Verbal, despite your NY resolution not to.
Verbal Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 My history of the Labour Party is a little sketchy, but i think Attlee was the first labour leader from outside the working class. Up til then, all the leaders were good, honest working class fellas from tough backgrounds, who, instead of studying it, empathising with it and vicariously adopting it - they actually lived it. OK, i'll confess, i'm being churlish just to provoke the obvious and expected reaction. Good to see you're still biting Verbal, despite your NY resolution not to. The Labour Party was co-founded by Sidney and Beatrice Webb - part of the Bloomsbury set.
Special K Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 The Labour Party was co-founded by Sidney and Beatrice Webb - part of the Bloomsbury set. My mistake. The rise of the proletariat, trade union representation and working class stimulus must have been secondary to them.
Verbal Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 My mistake. The rise of the proletariat, trade union representation and working class stimulus must have been secondary to them. Excuse me?
View From The Top Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 My mistake. The rise of the proletariat, trade union representation and working class stimulus must have been secondary to them. I think you're confusing the Labour Party with the Labour Movement.
corky morris Posted 13 January, 2011 Posted 13 January, 2011 The hypocrisy of politicians never ceases to amaze me. Cameron to Brown before the election - "The Country did not elect you as Prime Minister!". He was right, we didnt. I may have made a mistake, but David Cameron did not get enough votes to be Prime Minister?!?! , but Mr Clegg gives him what he needs to be PM. Cameron should be reminded of that...........And dont forget they basically gave themsleves 5 years & changed the rules on votes of no confidence - All without a mandate from the people of this Country. As for Ed, I thought he did OK yesterday. Cameron makes everything personal which for me shows a distinct lack of intellect. Just ask Osbourne what he would have done when Lehmans collapsed? Let Llloyds, Northern Rock, RBS & Halifax go bust & leave anybody with more than £30k on deposit to simply lose it??? Through no fault of their own??? The depression would have lasted years & years & those mongs who borrowed 10 times their salary to buy buy to let properties blame everyone else, but themselves. The levels of personal debt in this Country may have come down since 2008, but they can not be sustained when interest rates go back up to 3, 4 or 5% which they will have to eventually. Civil Service got too big, no doubt, but these cuts are too deep & too soon. More managers in the health system than face to face staff in disgusting & labour should take responsibility for it. Especially with inflation looming over our shoulders currently at 3.3% & rising.......Dont forget Mr Osbourne that as inflation rises, so does the cost of borrowing which means the amount required to service our debt goes up. If the MPC increases rates we could enter double dip..........Interesting times & IMHO there is not one politician in the whole of the UK who is equiped to deal with the situation we find ourselves in............But still the CEO of Lloyds takes his £2+ million bonus & Cameron does **** all about it!!! He knows he can, but then again Ashcroft never paid any tax so we all know that he was never gonna hurt his chums!
dune Posted 14 January, 2011 Author Posted 14 January, 2011 re the BOE base rate analysts have forecast 1.5% by Christmas.
trousers Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 The hypocrisy of politicians never ceases to amaze me. Cameron to Brown before the election - "The Country did not elect you as Prime Minister!". He was right, we didnt. I may have made a mistake, but David Cameron did not get enough votes to be Prime Minister?!?! , but Mr Clegg gives him what he needs to be PM. Cameron should be reminded of that...........And dont forget they basically gave themsleves 5 years & changed the rules on votes of no confidence - All without a mandate from the people of this Country. As for Ed, I thought he did OK yesterday. Cameron makes everything personal which for me shows a distinct lack of intellect. Just ask Osbourne what he would have done when Lehmans collapsed? Let Llloyds, Northern Rock, RBS & Halifax go bust & leave anybody with more than £30k on deposit to simply lose it??? Through no fault of their own??? The depression would have lasted years & years & those mongs who borrowed 10 times their salary to buy buy to let properties blame everyone else, but themselves. The levels of personal debt in this Country may have come down since 2008, but they can not be sustained when interest rates go back up to 3, 4 or 5% which they will have to eventually. Civil Service got too big, no doubt, but these cuts are too deep & too soon. More managers in the health system than face to face staff in disgusting & labour should take responsibility for it. Especially with inflation looming over our shoulders currently at 3.3% & rising.......Dont forget Mr Osbourne that as inflation rises, so does the cost of borrowing which means the amount required to service our debt goes up. If the MPC increases rates we could enter double dip..........Interesting times & IMHO there is not one politician in the whole of the UK who is equiped to deal with the situation we find ourselves in............But still the CEO of Lloyds takes his £2+ million bonus & Cameron does **** all about it!!! He knows he can, but then again Ashcroft never paid any tax so we all know that he was never gonna hurt his chums! I agree with some of your observations but what narks me most about the 'bonus bashing' mantra of the british public and media is that it's labelled a 'nasty Tory' phenomena. But, remind me, what did Labour do about the bonus culture between 1997 and 2010? By all means, bash the Tories for doing nowt about it now but let's not airbrush recent history at the same time. If the Tories had knighted one of the worst culprits in the banking industry we wouldn't have heard the last of it...
Johnny Bognor Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Especially with inflation looming over our shoulders currently at 3.3% & rising.......Dont forget Mr Osbourne that as inflation rises, so does the cost of borrowing which means the amount required to service our debt goes up. True, but inflation also erodes debt - the value of the debt decreases as inflation goes up.
Verbal Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Ed triumphs over blue and yellow Tories in Oldham. Not a bad start.
trousers Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Ed triumphs over blue and yellow Tories in Oldham. Not a bad start. You've got me worried now with that startling revelation. Please reassure me that the Pope is still a Catholic...? ;-) Btw, how is the outgoing convicted election fraudster Labour MP Mr Woollas these days...? ;-) And I thought I had a short memory.., ;-) And I thought I had a short memory.... And I thought I had a short memory....
Viking Warrior Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 I dont hear much noise from politicians about the excessesive and obscene salaries footballers recieve in the premiership and championship. yet they harp on about bankers. maybe they see footballers as working class heroes. and Ed Millband don't get nme started
Verbal Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 You've got me worried now with that startling revelation. Please reassure me that the Pope is still a Catholic...? ;-) Btw, how is the outgoing convicted election fraudster Labour MP Mr Woollas these days...? ;-) And I thought I had a short memory.., ;-) And I thought I had a short memory.... And I thought I had a short memory.... Sourpuss
John B Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 I think he's brilliant. I'm currently watching him at PMQ's and he's a complete and utter liability. He's no match for David Cameron and even Harriet Harman is noticably cringeing with every lisp. I will tell Ed of your concerns when I meet him at Reading tonight With regard to Cameron he may speak quite well but he has got the country in a hell of a mess in only nine months Doubt whether his Government will be a success with the buffoons he has in his Cabinet
corky morris Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Fair point Trousers. That's why I dont trust any of them! The whole Ashcroft thing is a disgrace. Blair & the war in Iraq is a disgrace. What the Con-Dems have in their favour is that more than likely, 12 months before the next election they will be able to sell a slug of the banks off again. Probably at a profit. Small point about the banks. Credit card rates are about 20% (ish) at the moment. Base Rate is 50bp. That is a turn of 19.5% per year. When base rates were 3 or 4% ish, credit card rates were what?...........13, 14% ish. The banks have almost doubled the profit (annually) on credit card debt in less than 12 months. If they cant make money now, they never will!!!! I agree with some of your observations but what narks me most about the 'bonus bashing' mantra of the british public and media is that it's labelled a 'nasty Tory' phenomena. But, remind me, what did Labour do about the bonus culture between 1997 and 2010? By all means, bash the Tories for doing nowt about it now but let's not airbrush recent history at the same time. If the Tories had knighted one of the worst culprits in the banking industry we wouldn't have heard the last of it...
ecuk268 Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Doubt whether his Government will be a success with the buffoons he has in his Cabinet I think that he may have greater problems with the right wing of his party, many of whom resent his concessions to the LibDems and what they see as a an almost centre-left approach to Government.
corky morris Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Question time was interesting last night. Gove was given a really hard time by teachers in the audience, even the ones who admitted to voting Tory. He is my list of most hated people in politics.......Gove, Varsey, Prescott etc etc
trousers Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 With regard to Cameron he may speak quite well but he has got the country in a hell of a mess in only nine months Source?
trousers Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Question time was interesting last night. Gove was given a really hard time by teachers in the audience, even the ones who admitted to voting Tory. Not my favourite Tory but he did break ranks (of sorts) on the bankers' bonus furore.
Viking Warrior Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 I initially thought it was pardew on question time last night but then I had had a couple of beers anybody else see the likeness I think some of those teahers were a bit wet behind the ears re some of there comments media studies. arty farty subjects all well and good but you still need to have a good grasp of core subjects but the again the UK is more interested in rality show, like x factor. and so . Maybe we should just ban all core subjects and allow the rest of the world to learn proper education
Verbal Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Source? The evidence of our own eyes. It's all a bit like those scenes in Inception, or watching polar ice shelves collapse into the sea - the whole country seems to be crumbling away in huge lumps.
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Question time was interesting last night. Gove was given a really hard time by teachers in the audience, even the ones who admitted to voting Tory. He is my list of most hated people in politics.......Gove, Varsey, Prescott etc etc Did anyone else hear him on 5Live the other day? The most arrogant self serving ***** I've ever heard. His utter ignorance as to the needs of society and in turn the pupil, is staggering. Some pupils at 15/16 don't have aspirations to go to uni: let them do vocational courses such as brick laying. By forcing them to do subjects they don't care about (I.e history/geography) not only do you lessen the acceptability of those subjects, but you also devalue that child's potential contribution to society.
dune Posted 14 January, 2011 Author Posted 14 January, 2011 Did anyone else hear him on 5Live the other day? The most arrogant self serving ***** I've ever heard. His utter ignorance as to the needs of society and in turn the pupil, is staggering. Some pupils at 15/16 don't have aspirations to go to uni: let them do vocational courses such as brick laying. By forcing them to do subjects they don't care about (I.e history/geography) not only do you lessen the acceptability of those subjects, but you also devalue that child's potential contribution to society. He talks like a teacher imo.
Deppo Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 He talks like a teacher imo. Must give you awful flashbacks to all those terrible, shameful things that happened to you at school.
corky morris Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 I did.There was a chap called Charlie who wiped the floor with him. FWIW - I think most of us agree that all kids should have a good grasp of English, Maths & basic history, but there are many forms of genious not just a couple. In my experience at work, we take on 6 graduate trainees each year & what they lack the most is common sense & basic people skills. Did anyone else hear him on 5Live the other day? The most arrogant self serving ***** I've ever heard. His utter ignorance as to the needs of society and in turn the pupil, is staggering. Some pupils at 15/16 don't have aspirations to go to uni: let them do vocational courses such as brick laying. By forcing them to do subjects they don't care about (I.e history/geography) not only do you lessen the acceptability of those subjects, but you also devalue that child's potential contribution to society.
Johnny Bognor Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 With regard to Cameron he may speak quite well but he has got the country in a hell of a mess in only nine months That's quite an acheivement considering he has been PM for only 8 months
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 He talks like a teacher imo. To be fair to Gove, at least he has a job.
Saintandy666 Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 To be fair to Gove, at least he has a job. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12171281 To be fair to Michael Gove, he is a ****.
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12171281 To be fair to Michael Gove, he is a ****. As I said, the arrogance of the man is unbelievable.
Johnny Bognor Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12171281 To be fair to Michael Gove, he is a ****. To be fair to Michael Gove, all subjects are not equal. The basics of English and Maths are far more important than playing the piano. If we want to compete as a nation on a global scale, core subjects will enable us to do that.
Deppo Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 The basics of English and Maths are far more important than playing the piano. Not to a concert pianist.
dune Posted 14 January, 2011 Author Posted 14 January, 2011 To be fair to Michael Gove, all subjects are not equal. The basics of English and Maths are far more important than playing the piano. If we want to compete as a nation on a global scale, core subjects will enable us to do that. I agree. Also the curriculum needs cleansing of its left wing tree hugging bias. Take History as an example. Students should be taught about how good the British Empire was. This is a very important lesson as if children are taught about the British Raj for example they can learn a great deal about becoming sucessful in business.
Johnny Bognor Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Not to a concert pianist. Great, lets have a nation of pianists. Kiss goodbye to your NHS, free eductation and welfare state.
LGTL Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Great, lets have a nation of pianists. Kiss goodbye to your NHS, free eductation and welfare state. Hold on 5 years and we might just be doing that.
bridge too far Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Hold on 5 years and we might just be doing that. As long as that, you reckon?
Verbal Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 (edited) I agree. Also the curriculum needs cleansing of its left wing tree hugging bias. Take History as an example. Students should be taught about how good the British Empire was. This is a very important lesson as if children are taught about the British Raj for example they can learn a great deal about becoming sucessful in business. Or take medicine as an example. People should know how good a cranium can be as an echo chamber if it has no brain inside. There really is no bottom to the depths of your ignorance. Would you recommend studying the Raj from 1857? Edited 14 January, 2011 by Verbal
dune Posted 14 January, 2011 Author Posted 14 January, 2011 Hold on 5 years and we might just be doing that. I think you'll find the conservatives have saved the country from the public sector. I was delighted to see that Manchester council are cutting 20% of the work force because we all know that councils have created countless made up jobs over the past 13 years. It's about time tax payers got value for money.
Deppo Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 dune will be pleased to know that Winston Churchill has recently dropped off the History curriculum, in favour of... Margaret Thatcher! Honestly, pupils are now finding out what a c*nt she was as part of the curriculum. True story.
saintfully Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 I did.There was a chap called Charlie who wiped the floor with him. FWIW - I think most of us agree that all kids should have a good grasp of English, Maths & basic history, but there are many forms of genious not just a couple. In my experience at work, we take on 6 graduate trainees each year & what they lack the most is common sense & basic people skills. I heard that interview too. Gove was absolutely battered - he couldn't have sounded more condesending and slow-witted if he'd tried. It was pretty embaressing.
dune Posted 14 January, 2011 Author Posted 14 January, 2011 Or take medicine as an example. People should know how good a cranium can be as an echo chamber if it has no brain inside. There really is no bottom to the depths of your ignorance. Would you recommend studying the Raj from 1857? Of course. It's a period we should all be proud of because Britain was the superpower of the world, and lessons can be learnt from how we achieved this. China is employing the methods in Africa as we speak.
View From The Top Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 To be fair to Michael Gove, all subjects are not equal. The basics of English and Maths are far more important than playing the piano. If we want to compete as a nation on a global scale, core subjects will enable us to do that. The core subjects should remain just that. However, as on the continent, young people should also have the option of studying non academic topics alongside them from 14/15 upwards. Why force non academic kids to study History & French, which they will simply turn off from. You cannot make a 15/16 year old learn when they really don't give a fat rat's arse. More focus on the core subjects up to 16 would mean that folk like myself wouldn't have to teach the current crop of school leavers the basics of maths and English when they get onto FE! The NC does need an overhaul but decent vocational courses should be valued as they really do help a large percentage of young people.
buctootim Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Perhaps we could re run the opium wars and retake Canton. Im sure opium would have a more benign effect on dune than whatever pschoactive he is on now.
Deppo Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Of course. It's a period we should all be proud of because Britain was the superpower of the world, and lessons can be learnt from how we achieved this. I completely agree. I think kids could learn loads of lessons about what c*nts their forefathers were.
Verbal Posted 14 January, 2011 Posted 14 January, 2011 Of course. It's a period we should all be proud of because Britain was the superpower of the world, and lessons can be learnt from how we achieved this. China is employing the methods in Africa as we speak. Hilarious. If China were to follow the behaviour of the British Raj in 1857 they would be razing all the capital cities of sub-Saharan Africa.
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