Japanese F1 GP

[Guest Hacienda]

Get in there Lewis.

 

Fantastic drive for pole.

 

*I was only up due to youngest daughter, I'm not that much of a geek.

Edited 11 October, 2008 by Hacienda

[Iowsaintsfan]

Thought Kimi had it there!

[the scud]

Is there a repeat today because i missed it

[Weston Super Saint]

is there a repeat today because i missed it

 

14:00 itv1.

[St Landrew]

Just seen qualifying. Not bad entertainment at all. Well done Hamilton. Now for the win tomorrow.

[Master Bates]

Alonso b@stard back 2 back wins now!

[Andy_Porter]

What a shocking decision regarding Bourdais, FIA showing themselves to be utter ****s again.

[Arizona]

Wow. Three way fight for the title now. Bet nobody predicted Kubica still being in the hunt with 2 races left.

[Andy_Porter]

Wow. Three way fight for the title now. Bet nobody predicted Kubica still being in the hunt with 2 races left.

 

Indeed, no one predicted that the FIA where such a bunch of corrupt tossers. They're doing their best to make it a contest, I really don't understand how Massa is still in contention he's such an awful driver.

 

Alonso is easily the best driver out there imo and Massa is one of the worst.

 

What did you think about the 25 second penalty?

[St Landrew]

What a shocking decision regarding Bourdais, FIA showing themselves to be utter ****s again.

 

Funnily enough, I realise this is the only incident I saw LIVE this morning. I woke up around 6.30am and decided to get a glass of water, then remembered the race was going on, so I turned on the TV. Immediately, I saw Bourdais coming out of the pits and Massa coming down the straight. Bourdais was ahead, and out of the pit lane lines, when Massa came alongside around the corner, squeezing Bourdais, and they lightly touched, throwing Massa into a spin. Both the ITV commentators immediately said it was Massa's own silly fault. I turned the TV off and went back to bed thinking... I bet if anyone gets punished, it'll be the other guy.

 

It's very difficult to remain open minded about F1. BTW, well done Alonso, and congratulations Ponty.

[bridge too far]

......

 

BTW, well done Alonso, and congratulations Ponty.

 

Was he racing too :shock:

 

[Michelle]

The FIA wins the Ferrari/McLaren fight again.

 

Massa's penalty - highly deserved

Lewis' penalty - a tad debatable

Bourdais' penalty - should've been Massa's

 

Ferking outrageous.

[St Landrew]

Was he racing too :shock:

 

 

Yeah, didn't you know..? He'd just got to the end of the start-finish straight on his first lap, when the race ended, making him 16th..!

Edited 12 October, 2008 by St Landrew

[Flyer]

FIA doing everything they can to hand Ferrari the title.

 

Lewis penalty was a joke, especially when he didnt touch anyone and Ferrari get away with ramming Sutil off the track at monaco.

 

I knew Bourdais would get a penalty purely for attempting to keep a red car behind him, it was Massas fault and no penalty was deserved.

 

This sport is more bent than olympic boxing.

[St Landrew]

Just seen the Bourdais-Massa incident again, this time fully awake. What was Bourdais meant to do..? He wasn't a lapped car, in fact he was in front of Massa on the track..! And he gets the penalty for having Massa run into him.

 

And the Hamilton penalty is just ridiculous. He overran the corner, and out braked himself. Big deal. Drivers do that all the time, but if they don't hit anybody, they don't get penalised for it, whether they hold up another driver or not. I didn't see Hamilton hit anybody, but I saw Massa hit two cars, and got punished for one, and got rewarded for the other. I have nothing against Ferrari, or any other manufacturer. Tbh, I couldn't care less. What I don't like is blatant biased decision making, and this is it.

 

The Fix is most definitely in again.

[Ponty]

Ok guys

 

1st point, yes BTF, I was racing. It's a team sport after all. Hence, Renault F1 Team.

 

2nd point, Hamilton was wild beyond belief today and his penalty was just.

 

3rd point, Massa utterly deserved his penalty too.

 

4th point, Bourdais has a responsibility to exit pit-lane without interfering with the racing line if other drivers are alongside. That said, I wouldn't have called it that way myself in this instance. I think SB was quite hard done by.

 

StL, thanks for the congrats. It's turning into a great end to a pretty dismal couple of seasons.

[Weston Super Saint]

Yeah, didn't you know..? He'd just got to the end of the start-finish straight on his first lap, when the race ended, making him 16th..!

 

To be fair it's a pretty long pit straight so quite a long walk.

[Jimmy_D]

...

 

Bourdais was the one penalised?

 

I mean, Hamilton being penalised today... I can sort of understand that, unusual for a penalty to be given for a first corner incident but Hamilton did overcook it. But that, combined with only a drive through for Massa for barrelling across the grass to ram Hamilton, combined with Bourdais and not Massa being penalised for Massa crashing into him (effectively a stop and go penalty as well, so no chance of an appeal), combined with absolutely nothing for Massa overtaking outside the confines of the track along the home straight, when the defending driver thought he'd done enough by putting his one defensive move allowed against the white line... the edge of the track... (every other occasion has been penalised with a stop and go penalty unless the position was given back and not taken back until after the next corner, but those were on a corner and not Red cars I guess)

 

I love F1 but I can't enjoy this...

[Colinjb]

I love F1 but I can't enjoy this...

 

I wouldn't worry. Ron Dennis wil finally tell Lewis that descretion is the better part of valour, he will win the title and the FIA can suck our collective balls.

 

He is better then Massa, and that will shine through, despite their corrupt influence.

[Ponty]

Having just watched the replay, Bourdais definitely shouldn't have been penalised IMO. Very harsh.

[St Landrew]

I wouldn't worry. Ron Dennis wil finally tell Lewis that descretion is the better part of valour, he will win the title and the FIA can suck our collective balls.

 

He is better then Massa, and that will shine through, despite their corrupt influence.

 

Sadly, in this world, the fair minded often lose at the expense of the rule benders. It doesn't matter a jot that Lewis Hamilton is quite clearly a better driver than either of the Ferrari pair. IMO, F1 is not a level playing field.

[Ponty]

Ah come on, Lewis makes his own mistakes. It's entirely his own fault that he wasn't collecting a podium place today. He needs to play the percentages and not get reckless just because he gets a bad start like today. He seems to have a bit of trouble keeping his head on the race track. He threw it away last year and he's going out of his way to do the same this. That said, Massa is trying to help him out as much as possible.

 

Regardless, Lewis is in a win-win situation anyway as far as many Brits are concerned. if he loses, it's because of the FIA cheats and if he wins it's because he's "the most awesome driver since Ayrton Senna" (trademark James Allen).

 

Turn 1 today proves he's not that awesome at all.

[Arizona]

Would be great if Hamilton and Massa slam into each other in China and Kubica takes the title in Brazil. After the FIA spend so long trying to wrestle it away from Hamilton towards Ferrari, for someone else to knick it would just be hilarious.

[St Landrew]

Ah come on, Lewis makes his own mistakes. It's entirely his own fault that he wasn't collecting a podium place today. He needs to play the percentages and not get reckless just because he gets a bad start like today. He seems to have a bit of trouble keeping his head on the race track. He threw it away last year and he's going out of his way to do the same this. That said, Massa is trying to help him out as much as possible.

 

Regardless, Lewis is in a win-win situation anyway as far as many Brits are concerned. if he loses, it's because of the FIA cheats and if he wins it's because he's "the most awesome driver since Ayrton Senna" (trademark James Allen).

 

Turn 1 today proves he's not that awesome at all.

 

Admittedly, when the pressure is really on, then Hamilton does the good ol' British thing of buckling to it. And so do lots of other drivers, British or not. Even Senna and Prost slid into each other, and Schumacher did it on purpose a couple of times. Anyone can lose it occasionally. Massa was doing his upmost in this race, and the previous one, of trying to lose contention for the title. But the FIA are helping him where he can't help himself, it appears. Hamilton will win his World Championship one season, and it could be this particular one. If it is, we might finally see how great he becomes, because IMO there's a lot more in him.

 

Back to the point of my reply - I feel that, despite trying to remain open minded, there might just be an agenda flying about at the FIA. And I say that almost disbelieving the thought. The fact that it appears to be aimed at any racing team other than those using Ferrari engines, and most determindly at their closest rival, is neither here nor there. The balance of evidence of decision making, for and against Ferrari, when compared to mistermeanors that befall other teams, leads one to suspect that something is going on. And if it is going on, it is simply not right, and F1 becomes false and a complete laughing stock. It like the opposition playing Man United at OT and conceding yet another penalty. These things don't appear to even themselves out over a season.

 

If I ever suspected that MotoGP was in any way afflicted by the same taint I'd drop like a stone. There would simply be no point.

[Penfold]

Ponty in hating Hamilton shocker

[Pancake]

Massa was doing his upmost in this race,

 

I expected better from you.

 

My 2p:

 

Lewis drive like a child when he had a bad start, I agree; but that doesnt mean that he deserved his penalty for a first corner incident. OK, he forced 2 cars off the track but this happens all the time, as pointed out in the commentry. If this keeps up,l drives will be affraid to go within 5 foot of another car (well, a red one anyway), in case they get a penalty.

 

Massa deserved his, plus he deserved a good ticking off for the Bourdais one AND when he used the pit run-out to take Webber.

 

Good race to watch though, nice to see Alonso win 2 in a row, hopefully Renault will be up there kicking butt next season. Also good to have Kubrica sitting in 3rd with 2 races to go.

 

Ive enjoyed this season very much so far (FIA bull**** aside). lets hope the last 2 races live up to expectations.

[bridge too far]

This sort of blatant favouring of Ferrari, coupled with Max Moseley's view that F1 might not survive after 2010, might well put off a lot of fans and spectators.

 

I say that as one who woke up for the start, only to fall asleep one lap later

[Guest Hacienda]

ponty in hating hamilton shocker

 

:d:d

[Son of Bob]

Ponty in hating Hamilton shocker

 

:smt042

 

Sorry Ponty, I know you don't like Lewis that much and I know you're ITK in the Formula 1 arena but Hamilton is a great driver. Last season proved that where when he matched (and mostly eclipsed) the World Champion in an identical car. I know you'll probably defend the 'Incredible Sulk' with theories of favouritism etc but he was made to look 2nd best by a rookie.

 

Having been an avid viewer of F1 since the 70's I'd like to think I have some idea of what makes a good driver. The only thing that I find off-putting about him is his slight arrogance and his 'fakeness' in front of the camera.

[bridge too far]

:smt042

 

Sorry Ponty, I know you don't like Lewis that much and I know you're ITK in the Formula 1 arena but Hamilton is a great driver. Last season proved that where when he matched (and mostly eclipsed) the World Champion in an identical car. I know you'll probably defend the 'Incredible Sulk' with theories of favouritism etc but he was made to look 2nd best by a rookie.

 

Having been an avid viewer of F1 since the 70's I'd like to think I have some idea of what makes a good driver. The only thing that I find off-putting about him is his slight arrogance and his 'fakeness' in front of the camera.

 

Like Schumacher, Lewis comes across as arrogant because he has shed loads of self-belief.

 

If you don't believe in your own ability, you'll never be a World Cham IMO

[St Landrew]

I expected better from you.

 

 

OK... utmost..! You must have stopped reading after that Pancake, as there were typos galore in my post. I was just too faffed to bother to correct them all.

[Ponty]

Rest of the forum in "Knock Ponty for not thinking Lewis is Senna reincarnated." shocker.

 

Sorry, but he isn't. He's very good and he has the potential to be great. If he makes WDC this year it won't be because he's pasted the rest of the field though, it'll be because his main competitors have tried even harder to **** up than he has. IMO he hasn't got a worthy opponent in equal machinery out there. Massa is as prone to brainfade as Hammy and Kimi seems to be on another planet at the moment. Kovi is only 3 points ahead of Alonso ffs, who's won the same amount of GPs as Kimi!

 

No one seems to have taken the Championship by the scruff of the neck and made it their own. In 2006 Alonso had as many points after 9 races as Hamilton has after 16 this year, and Schumacher was racing that year. If we'd given Alonso a good car from the off this year or if Schumacher was still in a Ferrari, Hamilton, on current form, would not even be in contention.

 

Call me what you will but those opinions are pretty solid based on EVERYONE's performances this year. If the Championship was only 6 races old now Alonso would be leading the WDC by 12 points. That's just not right cos our car is not that good at all.

 

It's not about hating Hamilton, it's about seeing his performances from a professional viewpoint. It's clear he has talent but it's also clear that he is prone to race destroying moments of madness. He needs to eradicate those and only then can he start believing his own hype.

[Pancake]

Rest of the forum in "Knock Ponty for not thinking Lewis is Senna reincarnated." shocker.

 

Sorry, but he isn't. He's very good and he has the potential to be great. If he makes WDC this year it won't be because he's pasted the rest of the field though, it'll be because his main competitors have tried even harder to **** up than he has. IMO he hasn't got a worthy opponent in equal machinery out there. Massa is as prone to brainfade as Hammy and Kimi seems to be on another planet at the moment. Kovi is only 3 points ahead of Alonso ffs, who's won the same amount of GPs as Kimi!

 

No one seems to have taken the Championship by the scruff of the neck and made it their own. In 2006 Alonso had as many points after 9 races as Hamilton has after 16 this year, and Schumacher was racing that year. If we'd given Alonso a good car from the off this year or if Schumacher was still in a Ferrari, Hamilton, on current form, would not even be in contention.

 

Call me what you will but those opinions are pretty solid based on EVERYONE's performances this year. If the Championship was only 6 races old now Alonso would be leading the WDC by 12 points. That's just not right cos our car is not that good at all.

 

It's not about hating Hamilton, it's about seeing his performances from a professional viewpoint. It's clear he has talent but it's also clear that he is prone to race destroying moments of madness. He needs to eradicate those and only then can he start believing his own hype.

 

:smt038 And Im a Hamilton fan.

[badgerx16]

None of the current crop, with the possible exception of Alonso, would have been fit to lace Senna's boots.

[St Landrew]

Rest of the forum in "Knock Ponty for not thinking Lewis is Senna reincarnated." shocker.

 

Sorry, but he isn't. He's very good and he has the potential to be great. If he makes WDC this year it won't be because he's pasted the rest of the field though, it'll be because his main competitors have tried even harder to **** up than he has. IMO he hasn't got a worthy opponent in equal machinery out there. Massa is as prone to brainfade as Hammy and Kimi seems to be on another planet at the moment. Kovi is only 3 points ahead of Alonso ffs, who's won the same amount of GPs as Kimi!

 

No one seems to have taken the Championship by the scruff of the neck and made it their own. In 2006 Alonso had as many points after 9 races as Hamilton has after 16 this year, and Schumacher was racing that year. If we'd given Alonso a good car from the off this year or if Schumacher was still in a Ferrari, Hamilton, on current form, would not even be in contention.

 

Call me what you will but those opinions are pretty solid based on EVERYONE's performances this year. If the Championship was only 6 races old now Alonso would be leading the WDC by 12 points. That's just not right cos our car is not that good at all.

 

It's not about hating Hamilton, it's about seeing his performances from a professional viewpoint. It's clear he has talent but it's also clear that he is prone to race destroying moments of madness. He needs to eradicate those and only then can he start believing his own hype.

 

I think you're using overly harsh words on Hamilton, but I agree with the sentiment. If they were all in equal cars, of equal reliability, I'd expect Alonso to win at least 50% of the time, with Hamilton winning half of the rest. Take away the pressure [i know you can't, this is Britain after all] and Lewis is a superb racer. Sadly, the best all-round driver of a generation isn't always the World Champion. In fact, often the best driver over a season doesn't end up World Champion. Look at last year's winner.

[Penfold]

I would like to Kubica in a Ferrari. Defiantely would be the one to beat.

[Son of Bob]

I would have liked to have seen Jenson Button given a decent drive 4 or 5 years ago. I still think he had the makings of a great driver. His time has passed now though.

[Son of Bob]

I would like to Kubica in a Ferrari. Defiantely would be the one to beat.

 

Agreed. I like Kubica. He's everything your average F1 driver shouldn't be. He always makes me laugh for some reason. A great driver though f'sure.

[Son of Bob]

Rest of the forum in "Knock Ponty for not thinking Lewis is Senna reincarnated." shocker.

 

Sorry, but he isn't. He's very good and he has the potential to be great. If he makes WDC this year it won't be because he's pasted the rest of the field though, it'll be because his main competitors have tried even harder to **** up than he has. IMO he hasn't got a worthy opponent in equal machinery out there. Massa is as prone to brainfade as Hammy and Kimi seems to be on another planet at the moment. Kovi is only 3 points ahead of Alonso ffs, who's won the same amount of GPs as Kimi!

 

No one seems to have taken the Championship by the scruff of the neck and made it their own. In 2006 Alonso had as many points after 9 races as Hamilton has after 16 this year, and Schumacher was racing that year. If we'd given Alonso a good car from the off this year or if Schumacher was still in a Ferrari, Hamilton, on current form, would not even be in contention.

 

Call me what you will but those opinions are pretty solid based on EVERYONE's performances this year. If the Championship was only 6 races old now Alonso would be leading the WDC by 12 points. That's just not right cos our car is not that good at all.

 

It's not about hating Hamilton, it's about seeing his performances from a professional viewpoint. It's clear he has talent but it's also clear that he is prone to race destroying moments of madness. He needs to eradicate those and only then can he start believing his own hype.

 

Oh I agree whole heartedly with most of what you say there but you still miss the point that he matched Alonso last season in an identical car.

[Ponty]

Oh I agree whole heartedly with most of what you say there but you still miss the point that he matched Alonso last season in an identical car.

 

You don't even want to go there with me, tbh mate.

 

Ron Dennis' quote at China, "We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando," says it all. There really is no point in me entering a debate about last season as views are so polar.

[John Boy Saint]

Blimey what an exciting season, tyre rubber and barge board paint is still being exchanged on here 36 hours +/- after the checkered flag has fallen.

 

If I wrote what I really thought about the FIA and their guidelines for penalties I would probably get a deleted post and a suspension for here, for starters.

[Ponty]

Blimey what an exciting season, tyre rubber and barge board paint is still being exchanged on here 36 hours +/- after the checkered flag has fallen.

If I wrote what I really thought about the FIA and their guidelines for penalties I would probably get a deleted post and a suspension for here, for starters.

 

Not from me.

[Chin Strain]

Ok guys

 

1st point, yes BTF, I was racing. It's a team sport after all. Hence, Renault F1 Team.

 

2nd point, Hamilton was wild beyond belief today and his penalty was just.

 

3rd point, Massa utterly deserved his penalty too.

 

4th point, Bourdais has a responsibility to exit pit-lane without interfering with the racing line if other drivers are alongside. That said, I wouldn't have called it that way myself in this instance. I think SB was quite hard done by.

 

StL, thanks for the congrats. It's turning into a great end to a pretty dismal couple of seasons.

 

TBF Ponty, whilst I agree Hamilton lost his head at the first corner yesterday, something does smell slightly suspect when he gets a penalty for it. In isolation you can say 'he deserved it' but precedent surely comes into it. Happy to be corrected but I can't recall anyone else ever getting a penalty for something similar at the first corner. Lock ups and shunts at first corners is common place - probably at least half the races it happens. On that basis, I'm not sure you can argue that he deserved it. In the end he didn't hit anyone, and there were other incidents at the first corner yesterday that weren't punished.

 

That, plus the SB incident, does add a reasonable amount of fuel to the conspiracy theory that the FIA will do anything to stop McLaren winning the WDC.

 

IMHO the FIA are going out of their way to taint the sport and drive people away.

[Ponty]

TBF Ponty, whilst I agree Hamilton lost his head at the first corner yesterday, something does smell slightly suspect when he gets a penalty for it. In isolation you can say 'he deserved it' but precedent surely comes into it. Happy to be corrected but I can't recall anyone else ever getting a penalty for something similar at the first corner. Lock ups and shunts at first corners is common place - probably at least half the races it happens. On that basis, I'm not sure you can argue that he deserved it. In the end he didn't hit anyone, and there were other incidents at the first corner yesterday that weren't punished.

 

That, plus the SB incident, does add a reasonable amount of fuel to the conspiracy theory that the FIA will do anything to stop McLaren winning the WDC.

 

IMHO the FIA are going out of their way to taint the sport and drive people away.

 

Actually, I meant to revisit this post and I take it back about Hamilton's penalty. Yes, he drove like an arse and he's going to **** the championship away if he keeps it up but it was actually Kovalainen who pushed Kimi off the track and not Hamilton.

 

I guess the stewards can justify it by saying that Hammy's massive lock-up caused the whole thing but drivers have been locking up at the first corner of a GP for decades.

 

So, having reviewed the footage, I'm convinced the penalty was OTT.

[Sheaf Saint]

I missed the race yesterday and only caught the highlights tonight. The burning question I have is how long do the FIA think they can carry on supporting Ferrari like this and still maintain their credibility? It's embarassing. I thought what Bourdais said in a post-race interview was spot on. When asked if there was anything more he could have done, he replied "I could have rolled out the red carpet and said there you go, have the position". He did absolutely nothing wrong, and I fail to see what else he could have done.

 

Also, why the hell didn't Massa get a penalty for putting all four wheels over the white line of the pit-lane exit when he overtook Webber? Surely to god that has to be illegal doesn't it?

 

I'm not even going to comment on Hamilton getting a penalty for that first corner incident. Maybe he deserved it and maybe he didn't, but I just want to see him win the title now just so that he can flick a big middle finger to the FIA who seem to be doing everything in their power to stop him winning it. If I were him I would be saying "Is it cos I is black?"

[Arizona]

I think Kubica would be the first Ferrari driver I would like since Irvine left the team.

 

Earlier in the naughties it was ABM (anyone but Michael). Barrichello was okay, but you just couldn't support him knowing he had to jump out of Michael's way every time he looked quick. Massa has been very good in the middle of this season, but other than that he has had an average career. Never really stood out even at Sauber.

 

Hamilton is obviously nowhere near the legend of Senna IMO. For me the rain shows up the best drivers and Senna was the best in the rain - bar none. Schumacher was good in his day and Damon Hill drove a couple of blinders at Spa '98 and Suzuka '94. Hamilton is certainly the closest we have to a rain meister in the field.

 

For me the best driver in the paddock is a toss-up between Hamilton and Alonso, with Kubica there or there abouts. When you compare them to how their team-mates have faired, all have been a class above this season.

[Arizona]

I'm not even going to comment on Hamilton getting a penalty for that first corner incident. Maybe he deserved it and maybe he didn't, but I just want to see him win the title now just so that he can flick a big middle finger to the FIA who seem to be doing everything in their power to stop him winning it. If I were him I would be saying "Is it cos I is black?"

 

You're just been silly. It's not as if any senior ranking FIA officials have had alledged Nazi fettish's and family member's associated with Hitler is it.

[SFC Forever]

Bingo. Two salient points which when put together make for a pretty nasty argument.

Ferrari Seem to be the darlings of the FIA and Lewis is the first good Black driver. Add to that the fact that not only is he not driving a Ferrari but he is in an English car.

[Ponty]

I missed the race yesterday and only caught the highlights tonight. The burning question I have is how long do the FIA think they can carry on supporting Ferrari like this and still maintain their credibility? It's embarassing. I thought what Bourdais said in a post-race interview was spot on. When asked if there was anything more he could have done, he replied "I could have rolled out the red carpet and said there you go, have the position". He did absolutely nothing wrong, and I fail to see what else he could have done.

 

Also, why the hell didn't Massa get a penalty for putting all four wheels over the white line of the pit-lane exit when he overtook Webber? Surely to god that has to be illegal doesn't it?

 

I'm not even going to comment on Hamilton getting a penalty for that first corner incident. Maybe he deserved it and maybe he didn't, but I just want to see him win the title now just so that he can flick a big middle finger to the FIA who seem to be doing everything in their power to stop him winning it. If I were him I would be saying "Is it cos I is black?"

 

You can't really blame him for that, Webber squeezed him out there in, what many consider to be, a reckless and very dangerous manoeuver. If someone had been leaving the pits I shudder to think of the consequences.

 

Webber had no chance of defending his position in the RB4, with shot tyres, against the fastest car on the track. Pushing Massa towards the wall was idiocy.

 

And I like Webber!

[St Landrew]

They don't race 'em like this anymore.

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v_DDAzAjxM4

 

Hilarious.