This squad is good enough for promotion

[Thedelldays]

everyone......dont respond, NickG has spoken

[NickG]

you can respond, its just I am right

[Turkish]

you can respond, its just I am right

 

in my ideal window i'd like us to keep everything we have got inc Puncheon provided he wants to be here, sign up Gully and sign Charlie Austin, plus a winger if Puncheon wants out. If we dont get Austin no dramas, we are still good enough to go up as champions. We certainly dont need cover/squad players that are worse than we have got just to keep certain people happy.

[NickG]

pretty much agree Mr Turkish

[alpine_saint]

everyone......dont respond, NickG has spoken

 

Indeed, its utterly pathetic.

 

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, AND I RESPECT ALL OTHERS (BAR ONE) ON THIS FORUM

 

 

Some real megalomania issues going on around here....

[Turkish]

Indeed, its utterly pathetic.

 

 

 

Some real megalomania issues going on around here....

 

Yeah you have got some.

Edited 9 January, 2011 by Turkish

[alpine_saint]

Yeah you have got some.

 

Wow, very clever what you did there...

[Turkish]

Wow, very clever what you did there...

 

Thanks. So you going to tell us what first hand evidence you have that our squad needs strengthening and also you assessment that Chaplow offers more to the team than Schniderlin, as per your post on the Schniderling thread?

[alpine_saint]

Thanks. So you going to tell us what first hand evidence you have that our squad needs strengthening and also you assessment that Chaplow offers more to the team than Schniderlin, as per your post on the Schniderling thread?

 

Nope.

 

Not going to indulge your very tedious "I've been more times than you" p*ssing contest.

[Turkish]

Nope.

 

Not going to indulge your very tedious "I've been more times than you" p*ssing contest.

 

It's nothing of the sort. I'm just keen to know how you can have such strong opinons on what we do and dont need and on players and teams performances when you've never actually seen them. I wouldn't call that a ****ing contest, more interested in you backing up your opinions and how you have come to form them, so please, in interest of the credibility of your opinions, indulge me.

[Smirking_Saint]

in my ideal window i'd like us to keep everything we have got inc Puncheon provided he wants to be here, sign up Gully and sign Charlie Austin, plus a winger if Puncheon wants out. If we dont get Austin no dramas, we are still good enough to go up as champions. We certainly dont need cover/squad players that are worse than we have got just to keep certain people happy.

 

This, but you can swap in any striker of Austins pedigree, and i would argue a punt on ALF may be just that.

 

Other than that we have a mammoth squad compared to other teams

[NickG]

Indeed, its utterly pathetic.

 

 

 

Some real megalomania issues going on around here....

 

go on, try a football post - reasoned and explained?

[SaintBobby]

If Connolly's a busted flush, I think we do need another striker, just for cover. But this could be a loan deal (along the Bignall lines) or someone very cheap. Although he hasn't been on sparkling form for a good part of the season, I think we are too reliant on Rickie. I'd like to have a very easy option to take Lambert off with 15 minutes to go if the game is clearly won. I think RL, LB and Guly are all 1st class for L1 - and AOC or AL could fill in up front too - but I'd like to have a 4th/5th choice striker who knows that's what he is. I don't think Ryan Doble fits the bill just yet. I'm looking at maybe a £100K player on 2K/3K a week. Emphatically not someone who is better than we presently have.

 

Can't decide on CB. Fonte is several degrees too good for this division. Seaborne, Martin and Jaidi are all okay, although the last of these is fading quite fast. If we were to make a c.£1m signing of someone who could go straight into the starting XI, central defence seems the obvious (only?) area to do it. Someone along Jaidi lines, but younger (Danny ****tu was mentioned)

 

If we keep Punch, the wings are fine. We'd have four possible left-sided wingers (Lallana, Puncheon, Dickson or a recalled Mills) and four possible right wingers (Chamberlain, Lallana, Puncheon and - just about - Guly...or even Butterfield).

 

Full backs definitely fine and seems there's real competition on both flanks for who is no.1 and no.2. I'm not quite sure what we do if both Butterfield and Richardson are injured, but some risks you just have to take.

 

I'm a bit ambivalent about centre midfield. I'm not a huge fan of Hammond. I'm less enamoured with Chaplow than many others. Schneiderlin is class, but his form can be patchy. Obviously, we have a ton of players who can swith to CM (Dickson, Butterfield, Guly etc). It's "fine" in centre midfield and rather better than any other L1 midfield I can think of. But probably for next season, if we're in the NPC, I'd like to see an experienced c.32 year old central midfielder, a leader of men, replacing Hammond. If that's done now, rather than in the Summer, so much the better.

 

I don't share Alpine's bizarre negativity. And I agree with the criticism that he can't credibly hold such strong views as an absentee. This isn't a p*ssing contest about how many matches people attend. I think someone who attends, say, 20 matches might have opinions basically as valid as someone who attends 30 or 40. But it's difficult to give much credence to someone who attends, I believe, zero matches, whatever their wider football knowledge.

 

That said, I also don't share the view (expressed by many on here and also by Adkins) that we should only sign players who are better than what we already have. Yes, we have depth that most L1 teams could only dream of, but that's not a reason why a tad more depth might not help - especially up front.

 

Promotion this season is vital. If we stay in the third tier, we could well see an exodus of our better players in the Summer. There would also be huge pressue on Adkins and quite possibly yet another change in management. I think we're quite likely going to win the division with the players we have got and that our chances of promotion are about 70-75%, but spending money to boost these chances to 80-85% (they can never be 100% of course) is money well spent this January. We are as well positioned as any team in L1, but the need for us to deliver in the next four months is probably greater than for any other third tier team.

[opthomps]

It's weird to think that pretty much exactly the same players who were useless in august and september are now performing so admirably, and are so well backed. Except Chaplow these guys lost 3 on the spin didn't they. Football is fickle.

 

I agree with the overriding sentiment on here that we should only purchase someone if he is a real gem. To be honest if that sort of player becomes available it doesnt really matter his position. It's good to have the competition. I wouldn't be totally surprised if we got no one in. A win in Oldham and I am sure no one will mind too much either way.

[alpine_saint]

go on, try a football post - reasoned and explained?

 

What, like your effort on the Oldham thread ?

[alpine_saint]

If Connolly's a busted flush, I think we do need another striker, just for cover. But this could be a loan deal (along the Bignall lines) or someone very cheap. Although he hasn't been on sparkling form for a good part of the season, I think we are too reliant on Rickie. I'd like to have a very easy option to take Lambert off with 15 minutes to go if the game is clearly won. I think RL, LB and Guly are all 1st class for L1 - and AOC or AL could fill in up front too - but I'd like to have a 4th/5th choice striker who knows that's what he is. I don't think Ryan Doble fits the bill just yet. I'm looking at maybe a £100K player on 2K/3K a week. Emphatically not someone who is better than we presently have.

 

Can't decide on CB. Fonte is several degrees too good for this division. Seaborne, Martin and Jaidi are all okay, although the last of these is fading quite fast. If we were to make a c.£1m signing of someone who could go straight into the starting XI, central defence seems the obvious (only?) area to do it. Someone along Jaidi lines, but younger (Danny ****tu was mentioned)

 

If we keep Punch, the wings are fine. We'd have four possible left-sided wingers (Lallana, Puncheon, Dickson or a recalled Mills) and four possible right wingers (Chamberlain, Lallana, Puncheon and - just about - Guly...or even Butterfield).

 

Full backs definitely fine and seems there's real competition on both flanks for who is no.1 and no.2. I'm not quite sure what we do if both Butterfield and Richardson are injured, but some risks you just have to take.

 

I'm a bit ambivalent about centre midfield. I'm not a huge fan of Hammond. I'm less enamoured with Chaplow than many others. Schneiderlin is class, but his form can be patchy. Obviously, we have a ton of players who can swith to CM (Dickson, Butterfield, Guly etc). It's "fine" in centre midfield and rather better than any other L1 midfield I can think of. But probably for next season, if we're in the NPC, I'd like to see an experienced c.32 year old central midfielder, a leader of men, replacing Hammond. If that's done now, rather than in the Summer, so much the better.

 

I don't share Alpine's bizarre negativity. And I agree with the criticism that he can't credibly hold such strong views as an absentee. This isn't a p*ssing contest about how many matches people attend. I think someone who attends, say, 20 matches might have opinions basically as valid as someone who attends 30 or 40. But it's difficult to give much credence to someone who attends, I believe, zero matches, whatever their wider football knowledge.

 

That said, I also don't share the view (expressed by many on here and also by Adkins) that we should only sign players who are better than what we already have. Yes, we have depth that most L1 teams could only dream of, but that's not a reason why a tad more depth might not help - especially up front.

 

Promotion this season is vital. If we stay in the third tier, we could well see an exodus of our better players in the Summer. There would also be huge pressue on Adkins and quite possibly yet another change in management. I think we're quite likely going to win the division with the players we have got and that our chances of promotion are about 70-75%, but spending money to boost these chances to 80-85% (they can never be 100% of course) is money well spent this January. We are as well positioned as any team in L1, but the need for us to deliver in the next four months is probably greater than for any other third tier team.

 

Yes it is. Cortese has made it crystal clear the whole plan to return us to the big time hinges on this. This might hint that the Liebherr family have a desire to see through Markus's wishes, but with limited patience so need to see progress.

 

Therefore, I certainly wouldnt risk some complaicency and us miss out for wont of one or two players. And if the club have made the substantial offers that NA refers to, it seems the SMS heirarchy agree with that sentiment.

[dickyhale]

What, like your effort on the Oldham thread ?

 

You are wasted sat in your chair hiding behind your computer screen, you should join madeleine mccann in world wide hide and seek competitions, all you do is take the P*** out of other people

[alpine_saint]

You are wasted sat in your chair hiding behind your computer screen, you should join madeleine mccann in world wide hide and seek competitions, all you do is take the P*** out of other people

 

Yeah, yeah. Whatever. And he's an angel who isnt making continuous digs, isnt he ?

[david in sweden]

anyone saying otherwise is, to quote another poster "talking ********".

 

logically I would agree with you Nick G, but

...we aren't half way through the season yet, and we are still too dependent on a handful of key players.

I don't have to name them, but if any one of them were to be out ; injury, long suspensions then we could seriously go off the rails.

Look at what happened after Barnard was suspended , and when Lallana was out injured for several weeks.

Connolly positvely affected almost every game he was subbed into, but we can't rely on him if his injuries constantly keep him out.

 

If it was me ...I'd buy the best new players we can get, and then use 3 subs. in every game to keep the competition high.

we'd not be short of good reserves, and could safely change the pattern whenever we want.

[alpine_saint]

logically I would agree with you Nick G, but

...we aren't half way through the season yet, and we are still too dependent on a handful of key players.

I don't have to name them, but if any one of them were to be out ; injury, long suspensions then we could seriously go off the rails.

Look at what happened after Barnard was suspended , and when Lallana was out injured for several weeks.

Connolly positvely affected almost every game he was subbed into, but we can't rely on him if his injuries constantly keep him out.

 

 

Common sense at last.

[Turkish]

logically I would agree with you Nick G, but

...we aren't half way through the season yet, and we are still too dependent on a handful of key players.

I don't have to name them, but if any one of them were to be out ; injury, long suspensions then we could seriously go off the rails.

Look at what happened after Barnard was suspended , and when Lallana was out injured for several weeks.

Connolly positvely affected almost every game he was subbed into, but we can't rely on him if his injuries constantly keep him out.

 

If it was me ...I'd buy the best new players we can get, and then use 3 subs. in every game to keep the competition high.

we'd not be short of good reserves, and could safely change the pattern whenever we want.

 

Isn't that the same as every club in the world? Look at Chelsea without Drogba and Lampard,Arsenal without Fabregas, would Barcelona be the same if Xavi and Messi were out injured? Every club has 2 or 3 key players, you can just keep signing players in case someone gets injured or suspend. Right now as proven on saturday we have 20 good players for this league and good enough to get us out of it, one or two extra players of quality wouldn't hurt but the constant "we need to strengthen" and just adding squad and cover players like some want is ridiculous. All you end up with is a huge wage bill and a bloated average squad full of unhappy, unmotivated players, just like our relegation season from the premier league.

[Turkish]

Common sense at last.

 

So come on Alps, how many players do we need? If you were manager, given we have 20 or so decent players how many more players would you sign and whom, money no object and assuming everyone we wanted to sign wanted to join us, realistic targets of course.

Edited 10 January, 2011 by Turkish

[Turkish]

This, but you can swap in any striker of Austins pedigree, and i would argue a punt on ALF may be just that.

 

Other than that we have a mammoth squad compared to other teams

 

I's also have a look at Jordan Rhodes, 21 a good young striker with a good future ahead of him. Dont know much about ALF as only ever seen him on Football League show highlights and as we all know you cant form an opinion based on that, err i mean, yes we should sign him and Charlie Austin and anyone else that we can think of. FFS.

Edited 10 January, 2011 by Turkish

[West End Saint]

We are having a much better transfer window than I hoped for signing Chappers & Lallana is fantastic we ought to sign Guly he is well worth it I would like us to keep Punch he is decent at this level & has shown he can do a job in a higher league must hang on to Chambo & everything else is a bonus.

 

I would like to see us sign another striker Austin would be good a winger with pace & a centre back of Fonte quality I know I am asking for the moon but why not it all seems to be happening at the moment but if we just hang onto everybody and no one else comes in it has still been a good window.

[The9]

If you just assess the question on the merits of the thread title, yes this squad is good enough for promotion. We already have more cover of a high calibre for this division than anyone else.

 

The only issue is what happens when those players are unavailable, off-form or suspended. And even considering all of THAT we are still better placed than anyone else in the division - at the moment I'm glad there's a fixture backlog because we're better placed than our rivals to deal with it. Though that doesn't mean there won't be games when we're compromised because of it.

 

We could of course sign a few more players to guard against absolutely every eventuality, but even Jose Mourinho seemed happy with a squad of about 23 first team squad members who could rotate in with no adverse issues at Chelsea, and we're only a few shy of that already.

[Daren W]

It's nothing of the sort. I'm just keen to know how you can have such strong opinons on what we do and dont need and on players and teams performances when you've never actually seen them. I wouldn't call that a ****ing contest, more interested in you backing up your opinions and how you have come to form them, so please, in interest of the credibility of your opinions, indulge me.

 

Valid point that always gets lost on some people. How on earth can you judge players that you've not seen play? I can appreciate that geography and finance can stop people going to games but how on earth can you judge a player when you're dependent on the radio and the views of someone else watching the game?

 

The problem on here is as soon as you mention that you get people accusing you of being a "super fan" or indulging in a p1ssing competition but the truth is, if you start vehemently arguing with people, it's not that great a leap for people to ask you on what you base that argument and Alpine has yet to back his argument up with any "facts" other than "What if player X gets injured" which is the same for EVERY team in the Football League.

 

It's not a dig at people just a simple observation that if you don't go to games, how can you comment on the players? It's rather like not going to see the latest blockbuster film because Jonathan Ross told you it was crap, you form your own opinion.

 

I've only been to about ten games this season as issues at home and then inheriting a house that requires a massive amount of work done on it, means I just can't justify the expenditure of going every week so I can sympathise with people who can't afford it, have new family, new job, have moved and just can't go to games on a regular basis. But the moment you stick your head above the trenches and start mouthing off about issues surrounding the club then people have the right to ask questions about you and how you form your opinion and Turkish has every right to ask Alpine on on what issues he bases his opinion of the club...

[The9]

Valid point that always gets lost on some people. How on earth can you judge players that you've not seen play? I can appreciate that geography and finance can stop people going to games but how on earth can you judge a player when you're dependent on the radio and the views of someone else watching the game?

 

The problem on here is as soon as you mention that you get people accusing you of being a "super fan" or indulging in a p1ssing competition but the truth is, if you start vehemently arguing with people, it's not that great a leap for people to ask you on what you base that argument and Alpine has yet to back his argument up with any "facts" other than "What if player X gets injured" which is the same for EVERY team in the Football League.

 

It's not a dig at people just a simple observation that if you don't go to games, how can you comment on the players? It's rather like not going to see the latest blockbuster film because Jonathan Ross told you it was crap, you form your own opinion.

 

I've only been to about ten games this season as issues at home and then inheriting a house that requires a massive amount of work done on it, means I just can't justify the expenditure of going every week so I can sympathise with people who can't afford it, have new family, new job, have moved and just can't go to games on a regular basis. But the moment you stick your head above the trenches and start mouthing off about issues surrounding the club then people have the right to ask questions about you and how you form your opinion and Turkish has every right to ask Alpine on on what issues he bases his opinion of the club...

 

I've listened to enough Saints matches on the radio to know I know stuff all about the match compared to people who went and that everything that happens goes through a commentator's filter before it gets to me. I've also seen enough ill-informed comment on here from people who've only listened to matches I've been to, to be able to deduce that it is very difficult to analyse things like individual performances (or fan response to incidents) with any degree of confidence.

 

I'd say to people they can by all means pontificate from afar about Cortese's policies, or Adkins' interviews, when all of the information is in front of them and an informed opinion is possible.

 

However, there is little chance that the radio will have conveyed the tactical nuances of something like Puncheon's notable improvement on Saturday, and therefore the likelihood of him staying, or starting a league match, or even whether we need a new central / left midfielder. Even the fact that the crowd was unexpectedly (I'd say) behind him wouldn't have come across on the radio - and all of those factors go into analysis of a player's happiness in a squad, with knock on effects on the transfer policy and any squad changes.

[NickG]

If you just assess the question on the merits of the thread title, yes this squad is good enough for promotion. We already have more cover of a high calibre for this division than anyone else.

 

The only issue is what happens when those players are unavailable, off-form or suspended. And even considering all of THAT we are still better placed than anyone else in the division - at the moment I'm glad there's a fixture backlog because we're better placed than our rivals to deal with it. Though that doesn't mean there won't be games when we're compromised because of it.

 

We could of course sign a few more players to guard against absolutely every eventuality, but even Jose Mourinho seemed happy with a squad of about 23 first team squad members who could rotate in with no adverse issues at Chelsea, and we're only a few shy of that already.

 

good post

[NickG]

Valid point that always gets lost on some people. How on earth can you judge players that you've not seen play? I can appreciate that geography and finance can stop people going to games but how on earth can you judge a player when you're dependent on the radio and the views of someone else watching the game?

 

The problem on here is as soon as you mention that you get people accusing you of being a "super fan" or indulging in a p1ssing competition but the truth is, if you start vehemently arguing with people, it's not that great a leap for people to ask you on what you base that argument and Alpine has yet to back his argument up with any "facts" other than "What if player X gets injured" which is the same for EVERY team in the Football League.

 

It's not a dig at people just a simple observation that if you don't go to games, how can you comment on the players? It's rather like not going to see the latest blockbuster film because Jonathan Ross told you it was crap, you form your own opinion.

 

I've only been to about ten games this season as issues at home and then inheriting a house that requires a massive amount of work done on it, means I just can't justify the expenditure of going every week so I can sympathise with people who can't afford it, have new family, new job, have moved and just can't go to games on a regular basis. But the moment you stick your head above the trenches and start mouthing off about issues surrounding the club then people have the right to ask questions about you and how you form your opinion and Turkish has every right to ask Alpine on on what issues he bases his opinion of the club...

 

true

[SaintBobby]

Isn't that the same as every club in the world? Look at Chelsea without Drogba and Lampard,Arsenal without Fabregas, would Barcelona be the same if Xavi and Messi were out injured? Every club has 2 or 3 key players, you can just keep signing players in case someone gets injured or suspend. Right now as proven on saturday we have 20 good players for this league and good enough to get us out of it, one or two extra players of quality wouldn't hurt but the constant "we need to strengthen" and just adding squad and cover players like some want is ridiculous. All you end up with is a huge wage bill and a bloated average squad full of unhappy, unmotivated players, just like our relegation season from the premier league.

 

I don't wholly disagree with you, but I don't think it is the same at every club in the world. Far from it.

 

Finding comparable cover for Messi or Ronaldo is simply impossible.

 

Finding good cover for, say, Dean Hammond or Danny Seaborne is eminently possible. And quite cheap.

 

We're very different from Barca or Chelsea or Arsenal. We are actually fishing in a far bigger pool. There are only a tiny handful of players good enough to play for Barcelona etc. Whereas there are very many hundreds, maybe thousands, good enough to play for Southampton.

 

We're also very different to most League One teams. We're mega-rich compared to most of our divisional opponents. So, I can well understand Dagenham or Leyton Orient saying "hell, we're just going to have to risk it. We're struggling to meet our bills as it is. If our best players get injured, we're just going to have to put the under-16s on the pitch." Southampton don't need to be as risky. obviously, it's absurd to try and believe we can buy an exact replica of Lallana just to sit on the bench. But I'd expect our squad to be far, far deeper than the smaller L1 teams. I'd expect us to have a fair number of fringe/squad/substitute players who could easily walk into the starting XI of many other third division sides.

 

At the moment, although I think we have a playing staff that must be the envy of many of our opponents, we could still do with - and afford - a little bit more depth.

[SaintBobby]

Valid point that always gets lost on some people. How on earth can you judge players that you've not seen play? I can appreciate that geography and finance can stop people going to games but how on earth can you judge a player when you're dependent on the radio and the views of someone else watching the game?

 

The problem on here is as soon as you mention that you get people accusing you of being a "super fan" or indulging in a p1ssing competition but the truth is, if you start vehemently arguing with people, it's not that great a leap for people to ask you on what you base that argument and Alpine has yet to back his argument up with any "facts" other than "What if player X gets injured" which is the same for EVERY team in the Football League.

 

It's not a dig at people just a simple observation that if you don't go to games, how can you comment on the players? It's rather like not going to see the latest blockbuster film because Jonathan Ross told you it was crap, you form your own opinion.

 

I've only been to about ten games this season as issues at home and then inheriting a house that requires a massive amount of work done on it, means I just can't justify the expenditure of going every week so I can sympathise with people who can't afford it, have new family, new job, have moved and just can't go to games on a regular basis. But the moment you stick your head above the trenches and start mouthing off about issues surrounding the club then people have the right to ask questions about you and how you form your opinion and Turkish has every right to ask Alpine on on what issues he bases his opinion of the club...

 

Bang on the money.

 

Alpine?

[alpine_saint]

Bang on the money.

 

Alpine?

 

Bang on the money my a*se.

 

I'll give the same answer I always do - I will start thinking there is some merit in this attendance-in-the-flesh argument the day I start seeing consistent comments from people who were at the game.

 

How can "you werent there and didnt see it" be a convincing argument when one person who was at a game can claim Player X was sh*t and another person at the same game can claim the same player was brilliant ? It happens on here EVERY GAME.

 

I read all the feedback I can before forming a judgement - positive and negative. And I watch on internet feeds and listen on the radio whenever I have the chance.

 

To argue that ex-pat fans should shut the f*ck up and not have an opinion about issues affecting the team they support is just preposterous.

[Turkish]

I don't wholly disagree with you, but I don't think it is the same at every club in the world. Far from it.

 

Finding comparable cover for Messi or Ronaldo is simply impossible.

 

Finding good cover for, say, Dean Hammond or Danny Seaborne is eminently possible. And quite cheap.

 

We're very different from Barca or Chelsea or Arsenal. We are actually fishing in a far bigger pool. There are only a tiny handful of players good enough to play for Barcelona etc. Whereas there are very many hundreds, maybe thousands, good enough to play for Southampton.

 

We're also very different to most League One teams. We're mega-rich compared to most of our divisional opponents. So, I can well understand Dagenham or Leyton Orient saying "hell, we're just going to have to risk it. We're struggling to meet our bills as it is. If our best players get injured, we're just going to have to put the under-16s on the pitch." Southampton don't need to be as risky. obviously, it's absurd to try and believe we can buy an exact replica of Lallana just to sit on the bench. But I'd expect our squad to be far, far deeper than the smaller L1 teams. I'd expect us to have a fair number of fringe/squad/substitute players who could easily walk into the starting XI of many other third division sides.

At the moment, although I think we have a playing staff that must be the envy of many of our opponents, we could still do with - and afford - a little bit more depth.

 

It is and we do! Bloody hell we've got squad players out on loan at Championship clubs!

 

The point about Arsenal, Barcelona etc is taht every team has a few key players, Chelsea are no where near as good without Lampard and Drogba, we dont need poorer quality squad players and fillers in case of injury, we need a squad of 20-25 good players and getting good players to join a league one club knowing they are not the star man or might not even get a start is not that easy. Players we will be interested will also be interesting championship sides.

[Turkish]

Bang on the money my a*se.

 

I'll give the same answer I always do - I will start thinking there is some merit in this attendance-in-the-flesh argument the day I start seeing consistent comments from people who were at the game.

 

How can "you werent there and didnt see it" be a convincing argument when one person who was at a game can claim Player X was sh*t and another person at the same game can claim the same player was brilliant ? It happens on here EVERY GAME.

 

I read all the feedback I can before forming a judgement - positive and negative. And I watch on internet feeds and listen on the radio whenever I have the chance.

 

To argue that ex-pat fans should shut the f*ck up and not have an opinion about issues affecting the team they support is just preposterous.

 

"mental" as you would put it.

 

Fine to have an opinion, the guy in Sweden makes some valid points, but he doens't accuse everyone of talking b*llocks that doesn't agree with him.

 

So given the feedback on this forum that 90% of people on this thread who go to games and see things themselve all agree a couple of class players at this level are nice to haves rather than desperately important, also what Adkins has said in terms of the players he is looking for, do you still maintain with the view of the small, tiny minority, that unless we sign loads of cover players by the end of January we can write promtion off?

 

here is some more feedback from the echo by the way.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/8780243.Adkins_has_plenty_in_reserve/

Edited 10 January, 2011 by Turkish

[alpine_saint]

Fine to have an opinion, the guy in Sweden makes some valid points, but he doens't accuse everyone of talking b*llocks that doesn't agree with him. So with the feedback on this forum that 90% of people on this thread who go to games and see things themselve all agree a couple of class players at this level are nice to haves rather than desperately important, also what Adkins has said in terms of the players he is looking for, do you still maintain with the view of the small, tiny minority, that unless we sign loads of cover players by the end of January we can write promtion off?

 

I'd like to quote me directly on that please.

 

Otherwise I am just going to laugh at you for being a hysterical fish wife.

[Turkish]

I'd like to quote me directly on that please.

 

Otherwise I am just going to laugh at you for being a hysterical fish wife.

 

Here we go again, Alps copies one line from the paragraph, fails to answer any of the other questions and uses the "i didn't say exactly those words" line. Your usual kop out. Okay, lets play it another way, given the feedback on here and in the echo now, do you think without any new signings, we will or wont get promotion?

 

You've also failed to answer my question on who you think we should sign. A Come on tell us.

Edited 10 January, 2011 by Turkish

[saint1977]

I don't wholly disagree with you, but I don't think it is the same at every club in the world. Far from it.

 

Finding comparable cover for Messi or Ronaldo is simply impossible.

 

Finding good cover for, say, Dean Hammond or Danny Seaborne is eminently possible. And quite cheap.

 

We're very different from Barca or Chelsea or Arsenal. We are actually fishing in a far bigger pool. There are only a tiny handful of players good enough to play for Barcelona etc. Whereas there are very many hundreds, maybe thousands, good enough to play for Southampton.

 

We're also very different to most League One teams. We're mega-rich compared to most of our divisional opponents. So, I can well understand Dagenham or Leyton Orient saying "hell, we're just going to have to risk it. We're struggling to meet our bills as it is. If our best players get injured, we're just going to have to put the under-16s on the pitch." Southampton don't need to be as risky. obviously, it's absurd to try and believe we can buy an exact replica of Lallana just to sit on the bench. But I'd expect our squad to be far, far deeper than the smaller L1 teams. I'd expect us to have a fair number of fringe/squad/substitute players who could easily walk into the starting XI of many other third division sides.

 

At the moment, although I think we have a playing staff that must be the envy of many of our opponents, we could still do with - and afford - a little bit more depth.

 

I agree with this Bobby, whilst I can see Nick G and others' arguments about the quality of the squad, which is very good and which would compete well in the league above, it is short of depth in one or two key areas that would bite us on the backside at the business end of the season.

 

Gk - Davis and Bart, who did well on Saturday IMO.

DR - Frazer and Butterfield, should be fine

DL - Well stocked - Harding and Dickson would walk into many NPC sides and Mills on loan

DC - As long as Adkins is now happy Martin can do a job (I think we are all convinced he can), we are ok here. Fonte, a Seaborne coming on leaps and bounds and Jaidi, add in Martin and that looks ok

MC - Chaplow, Hammond, Morgan S and more to come from Gobern. Bit concerned if Chaplow is injured for any length of time but Gobern has a good engine

MR/ML - Lallana is the best player in L1 and AOC the best young player. Puncheon did excellently at Millwall - does he want to stay with us? If so, we may stick with what we have but I just think one more wide player with raw pace might be neccessary

Strikers - This is the key area that needs the investment. Connolly is finished so that leaves Lambert, Barnie and Guly. Lambert has improved big time over Xmas but he has played a lot of football for that frame over the last 2 years. Barnie is fresh after his op and played well on Saturday but his past injury record leaves a note of caution. Guly has made a big impact for the last few games but is he more of an AMC? I think we need at least one striker, maybe a second with height that can cover Rickie and develop. Adkins track record with strikers is excellent so I would imagine he's been thinking about this and weighing up whether he can bring in another Beckford or Sharp or Forte from the cold somewhere else to help out what we already have.

[SaintBobby]

Bang on the money my a*se.

 

I'll give the same answer I always do - I will start thinking there is some merit in this attendance-in-the-flesh argument the day I start seeing consistent comments from people who were at the game.

 

How can "you werent there and didnt see it" be a convincing argument when one person who was at a game can claim Player X was sh*t and another person at the same game can claim the same player was brilliant ? It happens on here EVERY GAME.

 

I read all the feedback I can before forming a judgement - positive and negative. And I watch on internet feeds and listen on the radio whenever I have the chance.

 

To argue that ex-pat fans should shut the f*ck up and not have an opinion about issues affecting the team they support is just preposterous.

 

Hmmm. Not convincing at all, really.

 

Of course, people who actually attend games will often have very different - even contradictory - views. But actually being at a game will mean you have something of an informed opinion. It might be wrong, but it's informed.

 

By way of analogy, a jury of 12 may well disagree about the guilt or innocence of the defendant. They may even all get the verdict wrong.

 

But their views demand a greater level of respect - and command more veracity - than someone who sees a photo of the accused in a newspaper and decides he's guilty or innocent based on this alone.

 

Now, I readily concede that your knowledge of Saints' players and performances is greater than merely looking at a still photo in a newspaper. But it is massively, truly enormously, less than the knowledge base of people who regularly attend matches.

 

This doesn't automatically mean you're wrong. On occasions, someone might get a decision right by flipping a coin and someone who has spent hours of intense study might get the same decision wrong.

 

But it does mean your view is not very well informed. And is certainly much less informed than the views of the vast majority of posters on this forum.

 

Your entitled to your opinion, of course. Everybody is. But it would be strange indeed for you - or others- to attach very much weight to these opinions.

 

There's the world of difference between having a right to an opinion and having an expectation that this opinion should be taken remotely seriously.

[alpine_saint]

Here we go again, Alps copies one line from the paragraph, fails to answer any of the other questions and uses the "i didn't say exactly those words" line. Your usual kop out. Okay, lets play it another way, given the feedback on here and in the echo now, do you think without any new signings, we will or wont get promotion?

 

You've also failed to answer my question on who you think we should sign. A Come on tell us.

 

Dont change the subject. You mis-represented my opinion. I am not going to discuss this further until you prove that I really demanded loads of signings.

 

Begining to look a tad foolish, mate....

[alpine_saint]

Hmmm. Not convincing at all, really.

 

Of course, people who actually attend games will often have very different - even contradictory - views. But actually being at a game will mean you have something of an informed opinion. It might be wrong, but it's informed.

 

By way of analogy, a jury of 12 may well disagree about the guilt or innocence of the defendant. They may even all get the verdict wrong.

 

But their views demand a greater level of respect - and command more veracity - than someone who sees a photo of the accused in a newspaper and decides he's guilty or innocent based on this alone.

 

Now, I readily concede that your knowledge of Saints' players and performances is greater than merely looking at a still photo in a newspaper. But it is massively, truly enormously, less than the knowledge base of people who regularly attend matches.

 

This doesn't automatically mean you're wrong. On occasions, someone might get a decision right by flipping a coin and someone who has spent hours of intense study might get the same decision wrong.

 

But it does mean your view is not very well informed. And is certainly much less informed than the views of the vast majority of posters on this forum.

 

Your entitled to your opinion, of course. Everybody is. But it would be strange indeed for you - or others- to attach very much weight to these opinions.

 

There's the world of difference between having a right to an opinion and having an expectation that this opinion should be taken remotely seriously.

 

Whats the point of being "informed" and drawing the wrong conclusions ? Just to satisfy to Über fans on here, it seems.

 

I'll leave you to it, then...

[NickG]

Some footballing points to debate Alpine

 

I posted this in November:

 

Our forwards this season

Lambert 6

Lallana 6

Barnard 5

Alex Ox-C 4

De Prado 3

Connolly 1

 

Last year, at this level

Lambert 35

Lallana 20

Barnard 26

Connolly 7

 

Don't know how good Ryan Doble is.

 

Brighton -forwards in their squad and goals scored this season

Barnes 7 (lower league player before this season)

Murray 5 (14 last year)

Sandaza 1 (relased from Dundee last season)

then couple of 18 year olds who haven't scored.

 

We are not weak for this league!!!

 

Since then Guly has started scoring for fun and Puncheon has returned.

 

This was your response to my thread on Adkin's record :

 

Whilst the stats indeed make impressive reading, lets not forget that we have probably played a bigger proportion of our home games than everyone else.

 

The time to get carried away is April. We've only just reached the half-point of the season, FFS. Plenty of hard work still to be done. That's why Adkins is right to look to strengthen the team. To say this squad is strong enough is b*ll*cks, I am afraid.

 

Adkins has said some substantial bids are in to try and improve the squad, hopefully for the championship. If they don't come off he is not worried and will not be shopping around as this squad is good enough.

 

1) Why is Adkins talking boll~cks?

2) How many do we need to cover this feared injury crisis? Squad of 50? Jose reckoned 24 was best!

3) Why don't you think our forwards of Lambert, Connolly, Barnard, Guly, Lallana etc can compete with Brighton's as above?

[Saint_clark]

Whats the point of being "informed" and drawing the wrong conclusions ? Just to satisfy to Über fans on here, it seems.

 

I'll leave you to it, then...

 

Better than being uninformed and just making stuff up, to be fair.

[alpine_saint]

Some footballing points to debate Alpine

 

I posted this in November:

 

 

 

Since then Guly has started scoring for fun and Puncheon has returned.

 

This was your response to my thread on Adkin's record :

 

 

 

Adkins has said some substantial bids are in to try and improve the squad, hopefully for the championship. If they don't come off he is not worried and will not be shopping around as this squad is good enough.

 

1) Why is Adkins talking boll~cks?

2) How many do we need to cover this feared injury crisis? Squad of 50? Jose reckoned 24 was best!

3) Why don't you think our forwards of Lambert, Connolly, Barnard, Guly, Lallana etc can compete with Brighton's as above?

 

Sorry, if he said that its contradictory b*ll*cks. Why have we made "substantial bids" at all if the squad is good enough ? Why not keep our powder (and funds) dry for recruiting in the summer for the Championship ?

 

If he really said that, it is a thinly -veilled attempt to stop other clubs demanding silly money by making it seem we are not that fussed about those players really. He wants them to doubly ensure we get promotion and are not derailled by an unfortunate injury or two.

[alpine_saint]

Better than being uninformed and just making stuff up, to be fair.

 

So, what am I making up, then ?

 

And I dispute that I am uninformed. I have done everything practically possible to inform myself.

[NickG]

Players used as forwards so far this season and currently available for selection:

 

Lambert

Barnard

Connolly

Guly

Alex-Ox

Lallana

 

Puncheon could probably do a decent job there if rest died!

[NickG]

Sorry, if he said that its contradictory b*ll*cks. Why have we made "substantial bids" at all if the squad is good enough ? Why not keep our powder (and funds) dry for recruiting in the summer for the Championship ?

 

If he really said that, it is a thinly -veilled attempt to stop other clubs demanding silly money by making it seem we are not that fussed about those players really. He wants them to doubly ensure we get promotion and are not derailled by an unfortunate injury or two.

 

because always look to improve and towards Championship

[NickG]

what about the other points in that post?

 

do you still think the same of our squad?

[alpine_saint]

because always look to improve and towards Championship

 

WTF does that mean ?

 

If he really thinks he has the quality, and most importantly, the DEPTH to get promoted, why bring new faces in unnecessarily and risk disrupting a winning formula ? Better to bring them in during the summer.

 

I content that he still has nagging doubts about the next 20+ games and the ability to maintain the form of the team. We are talking about potentially single-point margins at this level now.

[alpine_saint]

what about the other points in that post?

 

do you still think the same of our squad?

 

F**k me, is this a court case or something ?

 

1) Answered

2) Someone for injured Connolly, someone for Puncheon if he goes since so many on here think AOC cant do the whole season, and another CB would leave me feeling warm inside.

3) Inconsistency (so what if we have a purple patch right now ? We have 20+ games to go) and injury.

 

I repeat: NC wants promotion nailed-on this season.

[Gingeletiss]

Lol at those who want even more players, we were in that position a couple of years ago, and boy, did that cost us! Add by all means, but lose those not capable of the next step. As to the comments above about us being a rich club, and we can buy anyone, Get real my friend, we are not a rich club, the now passed owner was, however, we are debt free, and I for one, would prefer we remained that way.