Do the fans make a difference..?

[david in sweden]

of course they do we all say, but looking at some stats.

I noted that 3 of our lowest gates have produced three of our worst performances at SMS.

 

19641 lost to Brentford 0-2

18169 lost to Rochdale 0-2

17857 drew Colchester 0-0

 

compared with

 

26289 Bournemouth won 2-0

26237 Brighton drew 0-0 (surely we were worth all 3 pts).

24483 Huddf'd won 4-1

22465 Exeter won 4-0

22177 Peterboro won 4-1

 

can this really be coincidence, or do the extra 4-5000 make a difference?

[Dr Who?]

Brighton have the best home record in out league and the smallest crowds.

[david in sweden]

Brighton have the best home record in out league and the smallest crowds.

 

I know that, but I was referring to SAINTS home games with low attendances.

[trousers]

Brighton have the best home record in out league and the smallest crowds.

 

To be fair, David was referring to the relative attendance figures rather than the absolute figures.

[100%Red&White]

I'd suggest that the players would certainly be lifted playing in front of a full stadium (regardless of size) than a half empty one, the fans also.

 

Playing in front of a packed 8k Withdean probably gives a better buzz than a half empty stadium many times bigger. 40k inside Old Trafford would feel a lonely place.

[saintwiz]

the Brentford game had a strange feeling to it from the start, as in quiet.

[revolution saint]

I'd suggest that the players would certainly be lifted playing in front of a full stadium (regardless of size) than a half empty one, the fans also.

 

Playing in front of a packed 8k Withdean probably gives a better buzz than a half empty stadium many times bigger. 40k inside Old Trafford would feel a lonely place.

 

Have you ever been to the Withdean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????? I only ask because I haven't and wondered what it was like.

[SAFE_SAINT]

As I was always told in pure maths- just becasue something has corrolation, doesn't always mean its has validity

[david in sweden]

As I was always told in pure maths- just becasue something has corrolation, doesn't always mean its has validity

 

OK ..you're just saying it's a coincidence, then ?

[Dr Who?]

Have you ever been to the Withdean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????? I only ask because I haven't and wondered what it was like.

 

Very quiet and detached from the play. Not good for creating noise at all.

[Rebel]

the Brentford game had a strange feeling to it from the start, as in quiet.

 

That's because we all knew we were going to lose as soon as we looked at the team sheet/heard the team called out before kick-off!

 

It's hard to get the crowd going when everybody thinks that!

[doddisalegend]

of course they do we all say, but looking at some stats.

I noted that 3 of our lowest gates have produced three of our worst performances at SMS.

 

19641 lost to Brentford 0-2

18169 lost to Rochdale 0-2

17857 drew Colchester 0-0

 

compared with

 

26289 Bournemouth won 2-0

26237 Brighton drew 0-0 (surely we were worth all 3 pts).

24483 Huddf'd won 4-1

22465 Exeter won 4-0

22177 Peterboro won 4-1

 

can this really be coincidence, or do the extra 4-5000 make a difference?

 

We had far less for Shrewsbury (10,000+) and Cheltenham(9,000+) and won both of those. Last season we had a full house against pompey and lost 4-1 so I'm thinking prehaps not

[rocknrollman no2]

What about when we went down from the Prem?

Our crowds were massive and they were loud and supportive,yet we were still relegated.

[david in sweden]

We had far less for Shrewsbury (10,000+) and Cheltenham(9,000+) and won both of those. Last season we had a full house against pompey and lost 4-1 so I'm thinking prehaps not

 

 

Cup games are historically lower -especially against lower league sides, unless we get as far as the 6th round, then they improve.

 

Of course the Pompey fixture was a local derby, too..and we deserved a draw at least, but their Premiership strikers were sharper

than our L1 strikers...which explains the extent of the defeat.

[Whitey Grandad]

I once asked Richard Hall if the crowd made any difference. He said that most of the time he was concentrating so hard that he did't notice us.

[CB Fry]

Cup games are historically lower -especially against lower league sides, unless we get as far as the 6th round, then they improve.

 

Of course the Pompey fixture was a local derby, too..and we deserved a draw at least, but their Premiership strikers were sharper

than our L1 strikers...which explains the extent of the defeat.

 

I can't be bothered to look it up but I would wager there was no statistically significant difference in average attendence during our Prem season when we finished 8th and got to the cup final and our Prem season when we finished bottom and were relegated.

 

We had massive crowds in the final weeks in the Championship and still went down.

 

Your response to the rationally explain everything that doesn't fit your hypothesis ("cup games are historically lower...."etc) suggest there is no causal link, it's just a coincidence this season. And even in your original post you have a 0-0 draw listed in our biggest and smallest gates.

 

The Rochdale-type matches you could just as easily say are harder for the players to get motivated for as it is against "lowly" opposition. Players don't get up for that game and for a similar reason fans don't get up and get a ticket for that game.

Edited 7 January, 2011 by CB Fry

[Graffito]

There was a similar thread on this a while back. I had a look at the time at various academic reports and the like available on the internet. The general view seemed to be that crowd support was not a significant factor in performance, which still seems counter intuitive. An away team having to play in unfamiliar surroundings was a negative factor affecting it's performance. And where home crowds really have influence is on referees.

[The9]

of course they do we all say, but looking at some stats.

I noted that 3 of our lowest gates have produced three of our worst performances at SMS.

 

19641 lost to Brentford 0-2

18169 lost to Rochdale 0-2

17857 drew Colchester 0-0

 

compared with

 

26289 Bournemouth won 2-0

26237 Brighton drew 0-0 (surely we were worth all 3 pts).

24483 Huddf'd won 4-1

22465 Exeter won 4-0

22177 Peterboro won 4-1

 

can this really be coincidence, or do the extra 4-5000 make a difference?

 

Absolutely coincidence, fans don't make the blindest bit of difference 90% of the time - it may have an impact on young players the first few times or on inexperienced players if the crowd is bigger than normal, but beyond that, it's just same old same old for players and background noise.

 

Any more evidence required than the way (Premier League) Saints played at (Championship) Watford in 2004/5 in the League Cup when 4 goals behind and with most of the extremely peed off travelling supporters tangibly cheering Watford, as Saints actually started to play for 20 minutes and got a couple of goals back (though as soon as we scored the 1st they got their 5th).

 

Also, the few times I've played in front of crowds of more than about 10 I've never noticed them at all.

[david in sweden]

I can't be bothered to look it up but I would wager there was no statistically significant difference in average attendence during our Prem season when we finished 8th and got to the cup final and our Prem season when we finished bottom and were relegated.

We had massive crowds in the final weeks in the Championship and still went down.

Your response to the rationally explain everything that doesn't fit your hypothesis ("cup games are historically lower...."etc) suggest there is no causal link, it's just a coincidence this season. And even in your original post you have a 0-0 draw listed in our biggest and smallest gates.

The Rochdale-type matches you could just as easily say are harder for the players to get motivated for as it is against "lowly" opposition. Players don't get up for that game and for a similar reason fans don't get up and get a ticket for that game.

 

I'm well aware of the Churchillian quote about statistics, but just to set the record straight..

in 2002-3 ----of the 19 home league fixtures -----12 had gates in excess of 31,000 , 3 around 30K and only 4 games with less than 30K. Considering wind, weather and holidays that's about as good as capacity gates every game.

There are no easily available stats for cup gamess, but in my 50+ years as a fan, I seem to think that FA Cup games drew

lower crowds than the average league games, exceptions being when we drew a top side, or got as far as the 6th round.

 

Some fans seem to ignore Cup games, or regard them as unimportant, which to some extent they are if you are gunning for promotion, too.

As for relegation... the dog fights, we had in the late 1990's would surely have had bigger support had we not been limited to 15K

at the all seater Dell.

 

If you look at my original post , I posed a question rather than making a statement but clearly players attitude, things that happen on the day have a big influence and you cannot disregard any opposition.

 

If we play badly we don't deserve to win , I just hope we have more luck in today's game than Sunderland did recently.

The " stats " for that game showed Sunderland had ...33 shots on goal ...and yet they lost 0-2 ... to Blackpool.

[Mao Cap]

Any influence fans have depends largely on their proximity to the pitch at a particular ground, and usually has more effect on the away team.

 

The Dell was a factor in our top-division survival throughout the 90s (more from being a place away teams hated to go than anything else). The way our lot shat it at Fratton Park in recent seasons (both times) also shows the influence a crowd can have in a rusty old ground with the spectators right on top of the players. However, it's almost impossible to replicate that at a new ground like St. Mary's, with the crowd a civilised distance from the pitch.

[alehouseboys]

I'ts possibly not so much to do with the amount of fans inside a ground but more how those that are there get behind their side, like making a big gnarly noise and intimidating the opposition. But having said that why are Millwall usually sh*t? It's the way I'd like my ground anyway.

[um pahars]

As I was always told in pure maths- just becasue something has corrolation, doesn't always mean its has validity

 

Indeed and one of the arguments on this has been that success drives the crowds up, rather than crowds driving success.

 

I think we would all like to think there is a link, it probably has something to do with our own feeling of well being, stature and success, but we have probably underperformed just as many times as overperformed in front of big crowds. I'm sure there was a period in the Championship that whenever we seemed to draw a big crowd we lost!!!!!

[70's Mike]

not sure if the size of the crowd is relevant just teams win more at home than away

[OldNick]

kicked to the Northam second half, yet again a win