Politics and Brain Structures

[SuperMikey]

Great. Let's close some hospitals just so these guys can keep researching to enable thread creation on SWF.

 

Don't tell me, you work in the Public Sector?

 

I really hope that most medical research programmes are not commissioned for a laugh. If that is the case, I would rather my 0.000001p be taken away from these jokers and given to something more worthwhile.

 

Oh come on, don't be stupid. You know exactly what I meant in that sentence. This research was not created for a 'laugh', research continues into brain structures constantly. The idea to compare structures of right and left wingers was thrown up by Firth much in the same way that I could say we should compare the structures of fish and chip shop owners and kebab van owners. Or Dune and Deppo. How you can say that such research into neuroscience is not worthwhile is pretty amusing, it gives us a valuable insight into the 'human condition', which has fascinated countless academics over the centuries.

 

And also, I don't work in the Public Sector, i'm a Student.

 

[Waits for irrelevant abuse about sponging off the tax-payer and throwing fire extinguishers around]

[Johnny Bognor]

Oh come on, don't be stupid. You know exactly what I meant in that sentence. This research was not created for a 'laugh',

 

The study was commissioned as a light-hearted experiment by actor Colin Firth as part of his turn guest-editing Radio 4's Today

 

1/10 Must try harder. See me after this thread closes

[Verbal]

1/10 Must try harder. See me after this thread closes

 

It started out lighthearted - then it turned out to be true! But I agree, it's wasted money - we knew it already.

[Johnny Bognor]

It started out lighthearted - then it turned out to be true! But I agree, it's wasted money - we knew it already.

 

What do you mean "we"? You have no friends.

[Verbal]

What do you mean "we"? You have no friends.

 

No that's true. That's the secret right wing bit of me coming out.

[SuperMikey]

1/10 Must try harder. See me after this thread closes

 

As I explained in my post (the relevant part again missed out), the variable was thrown up by Firth. Re-read my post.

[aintforever]

It's not just the UCL that came to the same conclusion...

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100224132655.htm

 

It's quite obvious what they say if you think about it.

[Seaford Saint]

Dune my besy friend is as right wing as they come....military background, loves Maggie etc, ex police force......and I respect his opinion but we agreed years ago that there is no right answer.

 

A little research would show you that when society becomes so uneven, it eventually breaks down.

 

I cant make up my mind whether you'd be a good drinking buddy or whether you are a ****wit....I reckon you'd be a good drinking buddy - some one who'd keep us amused.

[badgerx16]

Bad news for 'righties', deep down inside they are all 'lefties' : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/12/why-genes-are-leftwing

 

I also found this http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201003/why-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives, which includes this paragraph; "Analyses of large representative samples, from both the United States and the United Kingdom, confirm this prediction. In both countries, more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to be liberals than less intelligent children. For example, among the American sample, those who identify themselves as “very liberal” in early adulthood have a mean childhood IQ of 106.4, whereas those who identify themselves as “very conservative” in early adulthood have a mean childhood IQ of 94.8."

 

Johnny B and Dunce, over to you

Edited 29 December, 2010 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

I cant make up my mind whether you'd be a good drinking buddy or whether you are a ****wit....I reckon you'd be a good drinking buddy - some one who'd keep us amused.

 

He'd be a twice a year or possibly once a month in a group mate. Great in small doses, well diluted with other sane people around.

[Verbal]

So let's see where we are.

 

Left-ish, well-rounded, intelligent, socially adept posters - three cited pieces of scientific research

 

Foaming-at-the-mouths - zero.

[SuperMikey]

Now that's not very fair Verbal, Dune posted a lovely video earlier...

[Johnny Bognor]

Bad news for 'righties', deep down inside they are all 'lefties' : http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/12/why-genes-are-leftwing

 

Political bias shown in a politically motivated paper shocker!

 

I also found this http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201003/why-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives, which includes this paragraph; "Analyses of large representative samples, from both the United States and the United Kingdom, confirm this prediction. In both countries, more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to be liberals than less intelligent children. For example, among the American sample, those who identify themselves as “very liberal” in early adulthood have a mean childhood IQ of 106.4, whereas those who identify themselves as “very conservative” in early adulthood have a mean childhood IQ of 94.8."

 

An interesting response to that artice.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ironshrink/201004/conservatism-thought-disorder-in-need-cure

 

Particularly this bit (which is written by a liberal, so you're not all that bad)........

 

Psychology, which is unquestionably dominated by liberals, has developed an ugly habit of falsely maligning the political right. Through respectable-looking "research" we sling mud with flawed data and tendentious methodology (see here, for example). These bogus studies build on each other to create an inbred, incoherent body of literature that will be cited with unquestioning faith by the next conservative-bashing researcher. And there are plenty of them. A simple PsycINFO* search for the word "Democrat" returns 324 articles. "Republican" yields more than double, at 688 articles. Clearly, psychologists have deemed conservatives worthy of a special level of research. The bulk of that research is "unflattering," in the words of Professor Richard Redding, J.D., Ph.D.

 

Here is a very detailed response showing how the research was fundamentally flawed and politicaly driven

http://www.ironshrink.com/articles.php?artID=070116_jost_conservative_study_methodology

 

I like this bit........

 

 

Alan Kazdin (2003), author of one of the most widely accepted textbooks on research design, discusses the problem of using undergrads in psychological research:

“Typically, students are enticed into participation in an experiment by receiving credit toward an undergraduate psychology course, by being given monetary incentives, or by being solicited as volunteers by experimenters who circulate among psychology classes. An issue of concern is whether the findings obtained with college students will generalize to other samples (p. 101).”

According to the research, says Kazdin, those who volunteer for experiments tend to be, among other things, higher in need for social approval, more socially active, less authoritarian, less conforming, more altruistic, more self-disclosing, and are more maladjusted when volunteering for experiments that involve unusual situations (p. 103). Each of these factors could greatly confound studies concerning dogmatism, openness to experience, and the other characteristics sought after by the authors. However, they seem to have made no effort to explain or account for these possible interactions.

 

Another potential problem is the possibility that undergrads tend to be – pardon my bluntness – politically, professionally, and economically illiterate. I know I was. For the most part, this tiny segment of the population has little or no experience of life outside the safety of academia. They have not been educated by the real-world trials that shape political ideology over the course of a lifetime.

 

In addition, there’s good reason to believe that students spend most of their educational career with left-leaning public school teachers and college professors [3]. This is another source of subject selection bias and a potential source of interaction; the authors acknowledge this (p. 366).

 

....which not only applies to your quoted study, but also the study cited at the beginning of this thread.

 

If you think about it, it is common sense. Much of people's political beliefs are formed from life experiences. Why are these studies only ever conducted on students?

 

All this does is confirm my opinion that liberals and lefties have a self-serving intellectual superiority complex in order to make them feel better about themselves

Edited 30 December, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[Saintandy666]

Left wingers are more intelligent than right wingers as well as caring about others more. I have seen the stats and can add personal experience to that. This does not surprise me in the slightest.

[doddisalegend]

Hello fellow TSW-ers, i've been away without internet for a while so i'd like to wish everyone a belated merry christmas, hope you all had an enjoyable christmas season (and enjoyed the cracking win against Huddersfield!).

 

Something caught my eye in The Independent today about political views and how they correlate with the structure of the grey matter in the ol' brainbox. A study conducted on 90 people at UCL showed that people with right-wing political views tend to have a more "pronounced" amygdala, a so called "primitive" part of the brain which is mainly associated with controlling emotion. People with left-wing views tended to have more grey matter around the anterior cingulate cortex, which is associated with rationality and empathy.

 

The article can be read here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/rightwing-brains-different-2171127.html

 

Do you agree with the findings of this research? This is by no means the final conclusion, as more research will now be conducted on the subject to try and find a more conclusive answer, so we'll have to wait and see whether these results are replicated across a larger sample group or whether it was just an anomaly.

 

I can think of a view supposed left wingers who don't fit that profile

 

Stalin

Lenin

Pol pot

Kim yong il

Mao Tse-tung

 

On the other hand certain right wingers had a bit of trouble controlling their emotions for example

 

Hitler

Mosley (having affairs with his sister-in law and mother in law as well as marching on cable street show no lack of emotion to me, he is prehaps a bad example though as he he was a socialist before he became a fascist so who knows what his brain was like)

Goering (was a morphine addict and spent time in a mental hospital, where he was described as unstable (no kidding))

Margret Thatcher never seem to have a problem with emotions anger in particular

 

And where does it leave all those with middle of the road views who don't make snap judgements based on left and right but weigh up each event in life? do they just have bigger brains than everyone?

[Saintandy666]

Hitler was left wing. When will people realise this?!

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

LOL at all the lefties on here, clinging to anything which feeds their superiority complexes. Just carry on in your public-sector-cotton-wool-wrapped lives, believing that you are intellectually superior in order to make up for the failings in your own lives and just leave it to us numbskulls to bring home the bacon...... as always.

 

was that aimed at DellDays?

[sadoldgit]

The article focuses on the brain and quite clearly left wingers are not as intelligent as right wingers. Left wingers weren't the force behind the Industrial revolution and left wingers didn't build an Empire that the sun never set on. Our prosperity today is built on these foundations and it's right wingers we have to thank for it.

 

Oh for the days when we used to stuff chidren up chimneys! The Empire (which has cost us dear over the years since the sun set on it for the last time) was built by expoliting the proles of this country. They quit rightly got hacked off and after a period when the workforce wanted a greater share of the fruits of the labour the arch right winger decided that we wouldn't actually bother with producing things any more (coal, cars etc) so we can do away with nasty strikes and we shall just become a country that provides a service. Now the growing (or stronger) economies are the ones that produce things for others to buy and the once mighty Great Britain is left at the mercies of the dollar. Some would argue that we have the right wingers to thank for that. Still, who knows, one day we might be mighty again, it is just that the uniforms worn or now McDonalds and KFC and not redcoats.

[Johnny Bognor]

Left wingers are more intelligent than right wingers as well as caring about others more. I have seen the stats and can add personal experience to that. This does not surprise me in the slightest.

 

Andy, see my previous point to yours.

 

Society judges success by wealth and unfortunately intelligence alone doesn't guarantee success (it helps, but it is only one ingredient). Intellectuals who are relative failures in the scheme of things have to console themselves with their intellectual superiority complex in order to feel better about themselves. To get on in life, inteligence helps, but you also need grit, determination, dexterity, positivity, the ability to spot an opportunity, the guts to take calculated risks and you have to remove the spectacles of envy. Often those that rely on intelligence alone end up being university lecturers who bang on about the fact that life is not fair and try to move the goal posts for measuring success, for their own self importance.

 

When you grow up and get some life experience of your own, you will one day look back on these wise words and add Johnny B to the list of people who made you who you are.......no need to thank me, my advice is free.

Edited 30 December, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[dune]

Mikey and Andy both say lefties are more cleverer so it must be true.

[doddisalegend]

Hitler was left wing. When will people realise this?!

 

really? just becuase he called himself a national socialist there is no way he can be described as left wing, though granted extreme left wing and right wing policies can overlap to a point. Any political movement that seeks to promote a strong nation through war ruled by a small social elite is hardly left wing.

[dune]

really? just becuase he called himself a national socialist there is no way he can be described as left wing, though granted extreme left wing and right wing policies can overlap to a point. Any political movement that seeks to promote a strong nation through war ruled by a small social elite is hardly left wing.

 

That sounds pretty much like Communism - the philosophy of your typical UAF comrade.

[Minty]

Is this a good time to mention the political axis thing that has been on here a few times? The one that talks about not just left- and right-wing but also being libertarian/authoritarian:

 

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

It includes a good explanation of why Hitler is where he is: http://www.politicalcompass.org/faq#faq19

 

Might have some relevance in this discussion. Also an interesting update on there showing UK political parties in 2010.

 

Clearly there's not a lot of point discussing the original post as it will get hijacked or shot down or dismissed before any kind of discussion can take place. I found it interesting enough to warrant further investigation but I do actually agree that life experiences shape your political persuasion a lot as well.

Edited 30 December, 2010 by Minty

[Johnny Bognor]

Is this a good time to mention the political axis thing that has been on here a few times? The one that talks about not just left- and right-wing but also being libertarian/authoritarian:

 

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

It includes a good explanation of why Hitler is where he is: http://www.politicalcompass.org/faq#faq19

 

Might have some relevance in this discussion. Also an interesting update on there showing UK political parties in 2010.

 

Clearly there's not a lot of point discussing the original post as it will get hijacked or shot down or dismissed before any kind of discussion can take place. I found it interesting enough to warrant further investigation but I do actually agree that life experiences shape your political persuasion a lot as well.

 

Totally agree. There is more to politics than left and right.

 

Here is the copy I kept to show where the main culprits lie.

 

It's tough being one of the most balanced posters on here, but someone's got to be in the middle.

[hamster]

Totally agree. There is more to politics than left and right.

 

Here is the copy I kept to show where the main culprits lie.

 

It's tough being one of the most balanced posters on here, but someone's got to be in the middle.

 

70% in the green johnny, what does that tell us?

 

we can't all be leaders, law makers and wealth generators otherwise it would be pandemonium akin to the main board when certain subjects are dug up and people struggle to accept that theirs is not the only valid opinion.

 

as with you and i, it is not our differences that are most important but the things that we have in common.

[hamster]

/\

btw johnny you may be in the centre of the graph but you are in the political lounge drinking with the likes of (no names, no pack-drill) when everyone else is getting merry in the saloon putting the world to rights. real world, it matters not as we are all pawns in this game of backgammon.

[Whitey Grandad]

/\

btw johnny you may be in the centre of the graph but you are in the political lounge drinking with the likes of (no names, no pack-drill) when everyone else is getting merry in the saloon putting the world to rights. real world, it matters not as we are all pawns in this game of backgammon.

 

I thought pawns were in chess ???

 

Oh I get it now

[SuperMikey]

Mikey and Andy both say lefties are more cleverer so it must be true.

 

Care to illustrate where I said that?

[SuperMikey]

Oh, and my political compass places me pretty much exactly where Andy NS is.

[dune]

Oh, and my political compass places me pretty much exactly where Andy NS is.

 

Is that why you're not just Mikey, but Super Mikey?

[Verbal]

Mikey and Andy both say lefties are more cleverer so it must be true.

 

Dear oh dear.

[Deppo]

Mikey and Andy both say lefties are more cleverer so it must be true.

 

You've changed your posting style. Either you're rattled or I've gone mental. I reckon it's the latter. Wibble.

[Verbal]

That sounds pretty much like Communism - the philosophy of your typical UAF comrade.

 

Internationalism is the overarching slogan of classical communism. Nationalism - or more particularly 'Volk' - is an associated Nazi slogan. Brush up on your basics dune and you MIGHT sound credible - but I write this with a sinking feeling.

[dune]

Dear oh dear.

 

Of course that wasn't deliberate.

[buctootim]

Dune. Have you ever considered that some people form their own views on each issue and dont follow a party line? That most people are a mix - 'right wing' on some issues and 'left' on others.

I know its a confusing thought, people applying their judgement to each situation on a case by case basis, but worth trying.

[dune]

You've changed your posting style. Either you're rattled or I've gone mental. I reckon it's the latter. Wibble.

 

Not at all, but it's good to see you're not acting as silly today after our discussion.

[Deppo]

Wibble.

[dune]

Dune. Have you ever considered that some people form their own views on each issue and dont follow a party line? That most people are a mix - 'right wing' on some issues and 'left' on others.

I know its a confusing thought, people applying their judgement to each situation on a case by case basis, but worth trying.

 

I do not follow a party line. I support both the UKIP and the Conservative Party. UKIP represent my views perfectly on all issues though.

[dune]

Wibble.

 

Please explain this hilarious word.

[buctootim]

I do not follow a party line. I support both the UKIP and the Conservative Party. UKIP represent my views perfectly on all issues though.

 

So you wont be trotting out the leftie and commie tags every time someone posts evidence to show you're talking nonsense then? You'll be arguing back cogently with evidence of your own?

[dune]

So you wont be trotting out the leftie and commie tags every time someone posts evidence to show you're talking nonsense then? You'll be arguing back cogently with evidence of your own?

 

I'll put forward a relevent argument to a given situation.

[buctootim]

I'll put forward a relevent argument to a given situation.

 

Great. All change for 2011. Happy New Year one and all!

 

Unless of course that just means since "UKIP represents your views perfectly on all issues" you won't actually be applying any discretion and will simply post UKIP videos.

Edited 30 December, 2010 by buctootim

[Deppo]

I read a study that said that right-wingers brains are made up of the milk that Thatcher stole and they are full up with the dozen of quotes that they've read that they don't have any room to understand complex ideas. Is this true?

[dune]

Great. All change for 2011. Happy New Year one and all!

 

To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catchphrase, the U-turn, I have only one thing to say: You turn if you want to. Dune is not for turning!

[dune]

I read a study that said that right-wingers brains are made up of the milk that Thatcher stole and they are full up with the dozen of quotes that they've read that they don't have any room to understand complex ideas. Is this true?

 

Where did you read this study Deppo?

 

Or is this another of your legendary rib ticklers?

[Deppo]

Where did you read this study Deppo?

 

Cosmo.

[dune]

Cosmo.

 

What is that?

 

(btw i know you're being silly but i'll humour you)

[buctootim]

Cosmo.

 

Ive got a mate (a big fat guy) who for years wrote articles for Cosmo and Company - all variations on a theme of what men really want / like / need / go for. His research consisted of whtever he could think up at the time. Paid for a nice life all through university.

 

Tangential I know, just thought I'd share...

[Verbal]

Of course that wasn't deliberate.

 

No, that's what so sad.

[Sheaf Saint]

I do not follow a party line. I support both the UKIP and the Conservative Party. UKIP represent my views perfectly on all issues though.

 

As if further proof were needed, you have just shown what an utter fool you are dune. On the Global Warming thread last week, I asked you to comment on David Cameron's commitment to carbon-reduction and how that squared with your insistence that GW is a lie perpetuated by socialists as a way to raise taxes, and your response was:

 

I'm a right wing Conservative and a member of the UKIP. My views are the same as my partys.

 

Care to comment on this blatant contradiction dune?