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Jason Puncheon

saint peach

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NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted
Mental.

 

Any self-respecting Saints fan can see that he doesnt want to play for us, doesnt want to bleed for us.

 

He can f**k right off to Milwall as far as I am concerned, preening little prima-donna. See how soon Milwall get fed up with his all-fart no-sh*t contribution too.

 

based on.....???

 

(self-respecting saints fan!!??)

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Nexstar

Nexstar

Posted
Posted
Mental.

 

Any self-respecting Saints fan can see that he doesnt want to play for us, doesnt want to bleed for us.

 

He can f**k right off to Milwall as far as I am concerned, preening little prima-donna. See how soon Milwall get fed up with his all-fart no-sh*t contribution too.

 

Absolutely spot on!

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jam

jam

Posted
Posted
based on.....???

 

(self-respecting saints fan!!??)

 

I'll leave the 'self-respecting saints fan' for you but I'd suggest Alpine's judgment on Puncheon would be based on comments like this:

 

Puncheon said: “I want to be at a club where a manager wants you and believes in your ability.

 

“Kenny has brought me here and I’m glad.

 

“It is about playing football but at Millwall I have a manager who has given me a platform to play, and I think that will reflect in my performances.”

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Middlesbrough-0-1-Millwall-Daily-Mirror-match-report-Jason-Puncheon-gave-Southampton-boss-Nigel-Adkins-a-taste-of-what-he-is-missing-article634087.html

 

 

“He’s enjoying it at Millwall, because he’s getting a chance to play football,” [Puncheon's agent] said.

http://www.thisishampshire.net/sport/8750829.Millwall_keen_to_secure_Puncheon_deal__says_agent/

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

Clearly there is an off-field problem. It is the only remotely sensible explanation for why he was loaned out suddenly. This is a shame as he is a good player but these things happen. Hopefully we get a decent fee for him (should certainly get a fair whack more than we paid) and reinvest it in another good player.

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eelpie

eelpie

Posted
Posted
My guess is he doesn't want to be an impact player - he wants to be first choice. As soon as he wasn't, he sulked. I'm not saying that as fact, just my interpretation.

 

You are right. Which is the tragedy of the situation. He is talented and when on form he sets the match alight, but this season he hasn't performed as well throughout matches as last. But too many of the team began the season lacking desire as well. Nicola's criticisms of Pards pre-season training seems spot on and may have cost us several good players including Puncheon.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
Nicola's criticisms of Pards pre-season training seems spot on and may have cost us several good players including Puncheon.

 

I'm getting a bit fed up of reading this tripe about Pardew working them too hard and that is the reason for everything bad about the start of the season. Lambert and Pucheon got injured, but the other 25 players didn't. Injuries happen, the poor start to the season...well who knows exactly, but a few extra laps round the pitch?

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Roger

Roger

Posted
Posted
Mental.

 

Any self-respecting Saints fan can see that he doesnt want to play for us, doesnt want to bleed for us.

 

He can f**k right off to Milwall as far as I am concerned, preening little prima-donna. See how soon Milwall get fed up with his all-fart no-sh*t contribution too.

 

Let me know when u actually go to gamesand don't moan about everything from behind ur laptop! I used to agree with u over lowe but you're negativity is now becoming ridicoulous!

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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted
I'm getting a bit fed up of reading this tripe about Pardew working them too hard and that is the reason for everything bad about the start of the season. Lambert and Pucheon got injured, but the other 25 players didn't. Injuries happen, the poor start to the season...well who knows exactly, but a few extra laps round the pitch?

 

+1!!

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
Mental.

 

Any self-respecting Saints fan can see that he doesnt want to play for us, doesnt want to bleed for us.

 

He can f**k right off to Milwall as far as I am concerned, preening little prima-donna. See how soon Milwall get fed up with his all-fart no-sh*t contribution too.

 

Sorry Alps,

 

But that is complete nonsensicle utter boll*cks. He was/is a good player and tried hard before the fans got on his back, even though the rest of the team was not firing either. He tracked back a lot more than young adam does and IMO often looked like he was dangerous.

 

I do agree though, if for whatever reason he doesn't want to play for us then he should go, but it is a shame, we will struggle to match his quality at this level.

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
I'm getting a bit fed up of reading this tripe about Pardew working them too hard and that is the reason for everything bad about the start of the season. Lambert and Pucheon got injured, but the other 25 players didn't. Injuries happen, the poor start to the season...well who knows exactly, but a few extra laps round the pitch?

 

I am no fan of Pardew but even i think the fact that everything is so so bad about the start of the season is all Pard's fault is rediculous.

 

Are we forgetting about the situation in which Pardew left under a cloud ? The injuries ? The Wilkins era and also the fact that the owner of the club passed away ?? All of these things probably had a massive effect.

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Ewell

Ewell

Posted
Posted
The way Chamberlain and Lallana are running the wings today, I don't think Puncheon is a starting XI player anymore.

 

This is and has been the key point on why Puncheon was allowed to go. He did not fancy staying and fighting for his place behind a youngster who is already let alone potentially better than him!

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Its a win win situation for us.

 

I'm sure other sides will have noticed his performances for Millwall so if they can't pay what we want someone else might.

 

If nobody wants him or can afford him he has to come back , having at least found his form.

 

we could always leave him on loan at Millwall anyway. A fair number of January window deals are loans.

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SFC Forever

SFC Forever

Posted
Posted
I'm getting a bit fed up of reading this tripe about Pardew working them too hard and that is the reason for everything bad about the start of the season. Lambert and Pucheon got injured, but the other 25 players didn't. Injuries happen, the poor start to the season...well who knows exactly, but a few extra laps round the pitch?

 

 

Don't forget Richardson and Lallana were both injured in pre-season as well.

Barnard also started the season with a few niggles which were eventually cleared up and only now is he fully fit.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
Don't forget Richardson and Lallana were both injured in pre-season as well.

Barnard also started the season with a few niggles which were eventually cleared up and only now is he fully fit.

 

Richardson dislocated his shoulder, please tell me how that was Pardews fault? Lallana's injury was the same one as from last season that the doctor suggested he rest. Hardly Pardews fault that it did not repair and we had to operate in the end. You might be on to something with Barnard's hernia as that can be down to overplaying, but again, a few extra laps in preseason? Nah.

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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Posted
Posted
perhaps he is playing well because Jacket has shown faith in him and that has boosted his confidence, not to mention not having his own fans jumping on his back at every opportunity. Still any excuse to lay into the fella.

 

In my view any decent player on the receiving end of 'stick' from his own (or opposition) fans should react by redoubling his efforts to prove his critics wrong, to do otherwise displays a lack of moral fibre ill becoming a professional sportsman. I'm quite sure you and everyone else reading this will have seen proper players react positively to criticism on occasions too numerous to mention. To get back to the heart of the matter the reason a small minority of Saints fans were 'on his back' in the first place is of course because he just wasn't doing the business for this club anymore.

 

I see no evidence that Nigel Adkins was unsupportive of this player in any way - indeed given the string of ineffectual performances he put in Puncheon might well have been dropped for Alex Chamberlain much earlier than he was.

 

To imply that his form fell off because of some (barely perceptible) booing is a classic case of putting the cart in front of the horse - if he'd been doing his job properly he'd have been getting full support of the entire fanbase - just like any other Saints player.

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up and away

up and away

Posted
Posted
I'm getting a bit fed up of reading this tripe about Pardew working them too hard and that is the reason for everything bad about the start of the season. Lambert and Pucheon got injured, but the other 25 players didn't. Injuries happen, the poor start to the season...well who knows exactly, but a few extra laps round the pitch?

 

If you could not figure out from those first two home performances against two poor teams in Plymouth and the O's, that something was not drastically wrong, your view must have been severely restricted. We were so sluggish in those games, tapering off drastically in the second half as tiredness set in.

 

The state of fitness and sharpness of the team at the beginning of the season was woeful, I would have expected them to be at that level with no pre season. The most noticeable being Puncheon and Hammond, who took an age to get his fitness levels back to where they should be. Puncheon jut ran out of steam in the second half, ending up running down blind alleys. The case of Ricky has been well documented and it is only now he is starting to look like the player he was. Hopefully we can rely on a fully fit Barnard in the coming games. Lallana's injury was not handled well at all, whoevers fault. He should have had an exploratory immediately and going by what subsequently happened, missed the first week of the season at worst. If you are going to nurse a player through a problem, maybe not best to play him nigh on the full 90 in a pointless cup game, then see him break down a couple of days later in a league match.

 

The simple facts are that fitness levels at the start of the season were woeful, with several injuries to key players that decimated the team, resulting in the poor performances we saw. This from a pre-season training regime fully under the control of Pardew, the most expensive in the league with behind the scenes support that many league 1 teams can only dream about. It's taken us a half a season to fully undo the damage that was done by pre-season training, something that Pardew fought strongly to have total control over, even though he was warned otherwise by that experienced support staff. The position we are now should have been where we were at the start of the season!

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hamster

hamster

Posted
Posted (edited)

rumours of prem teams scouting our players are apparently ridiculous if one doesn't like the player, however if you are the terrace darling then of course all rumour is founded.

 

puncheon is a good player. no doubt AOC is turning it on atm but what if that too (as others suggest is the case with JP) is a flash in the pan? what if we actually do have enquiries that NC has turned down and he too (AOC) throws his toys out. what if rumours are true and both punch and aoc go? what would really make people happy at sms, i do wonder sometimes...

 

any decent squad has to cover all eventualities and getting shot of punch could potentially be the biggest factor in us not progressing this season and what then; new manager, 'cortese out' ad infinitum?

Edited by hamster
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NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted
Superb post. Really, I wonder how your brain functions sometimes.....

 

For an attacking player, finishing is a HUGE part of the game, FFS.

 

Emile Hesky - played as out and out forward, picked by numerous England managers -signed for 2 top 6 sides - top finisher? No.

 

There are numerous other examples of good forwards who don't score a lot, you really are looking a bit silly here. Kevin Davies?

 

You are showing only a superficial level of understanding of football.

 

If you had seen the game you would have seen how vital he was for opening up the defence - something we have often been lacking playing "better" forwards like Rickie, Barnard or Connolly.

 

He set up two goals -should have been a third but for Lallana's poor finishing (guess he is no longer a good forward as missed two good chances!).

 

Of course you need goals from your forwards - but to get those you need chances - which is what he provided.

 

If he was also a great finisher he wouldn't be here!

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
To get back to the heart of the matter the reason a small minority of Saints fans were 'on his back' in the first place is of course because he just wasn't doing the business for this club anymore.

if he'd been doing his job properly he'd have been getting full support of the entire fanbase - just like any other Saints player.

 

depends if the job he is doing is understood by fans. Most fan don't know football. They understand a tackle, but do they understand a weighted pass over 5 yards or a deft first touch when a defender is tight?

 

Besides, a few shots over the bar (I haven't seen Lambert getting abuse), a few wrong decisions and the failure to beat his man and fans were all over him. They don't like his laid back style and they fail to acknowledge his tremendous first touch and dribbling ability. Fabrice Fernandez got the same sort if stick.

 

What has annoyed me most is that he changed his game (when recalled to the side) by passing much quicker (which IMO improved his game a lot) and yet some fans still jumped on his back when they should have been getting behind him. Fans don't judge players simply on how they are playing in that game they pre-judge them on previous displays. Once fans make up their mind about a player nothing seems to change it.

 

I'm not saying he deserves the shirt, far from it, but fans seem so happy to slate a man that they expect to run for them. We need a squad yet it was weakened as soon as he went out on loan.

 

I notice you talk about moral fibre, well Paul Telfer showed that in spades but did fans recognise that? Did they ****.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
If you could not figure out from those first two home performances against two poor teams in Plymouth and the O's, that something was not drastically wrong, your view must have been severely restricted. We were so sluggish in those games, tapering off drastically in the second half as tiredness set in.

 

The state of fitness and sharpness of the team at the beginning of the season was woeful, I would have expected them to be at that level with no pre season. The most noticeable being Puncheon and Hammond, who took an age to get his fitness levels back to where they should be. Puncheon jut ran out of steam in the second half, ending up running down blind alleys. The case of Ricky has been well documented and it is only now he is starting to look like the player he was. Hopefully we can rely on a fully fit Barnard in the coming games. Lallana's injury was not handled well at all, whoevers fault. He should have had an exploratory immediately and going by what subsequently happened, missed the first week of the season at worst. If you are going to nurse a player through a problem, maybe not best to play him nigh on the full 90 in a pointless cup game, then see him break down a couple of days later in a league match.

 

The simple facts are that fitness levels at the start of the season were woeful, with several injuries to key players that decimated the team, resulting in the poor performances we saw. This from a pre-season training regime fully under the control of Pardew, the most expensive in the league with behind the scenes support that many league 1 teams can only dream about. It's taken us a half a season to fully undo the damage that was done by pre-season training, something that Pardew fought strongly to have total control over, even though he was warned otherwise by that experienced support staff. The position we are now should have been where we were at the start of the season!

 

I can't respond to you post as I am not sure if you are stating that we were under prepared or overcooked. Just so you know i think the players were and are fitter than previous seasons. They played ****, but I don't agree that they were short of fitness, Puncheon, Lallana and Lambert apart who all had injuries.

Edited by Chez
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up and away

up and away

Posted
Posted
I can't respond to you post as I am not sure if you are stating that we were under prepared or overcooked. Just so you know i think the players were and are fitter than previous seasons. They played ****, but I don't agree that they were short of fitness, Puncheon, Lallana and Lambert apart who all had injuries.

 

This is very basic, Pardew was in charge of pre-season training, something he insisted upon doing his way, even against the advice of experienced staff.

 

During pre-season Ricky, Barnard, Puncheon picked up injuries that stopped them attaining full fitness until now. Hammond was just a shell of his previous self and if you think he was fit, I can only assume you were looking at someone else.

 

We arrived at the start of the season with our fitness levels poor, exacerbated by injuries and the regime they went through. Our fitness levels and injuries were down to one person, Pardew, whether he had them singing extracts from the sound of music or lumping sand bags up and down the mountains. He wanted things his way no matter what others were advising, so this one is pretty simple. Pre season is all about getting the players fit to withstand a full season, without impeding their progress with injuries, something that spectacularly failed us. That's without allowing for the natural set backs you have such as the dislocation, etc.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
This is very basic, Pardew was in charge of pre-season training, something he insisted upon doing his way, even against the advice of experienced staff.

 

During pre-season Ricky, Barnard, Puncheon picked up injuries that stopped them attaining full fitness until now. Hammond was just a shell of his previous self and if you think he was fit, I can only assume you were looking at someone else.

 

We arrived at the start of the season with our fitness levels poor, exacerbated by injuries and the regime they went through. Our fitness levels and injuries were down to one person, Pardew, whether he had them singing extracts from the sound of music or lumping sand bags up and down the mountains. He wanted things his way no matter what others were advising, so this one is pretty simple. Pre season is all about getting the players fit to withstand a full season, without impeding their progress with injuries, something that spectacularly failed us. That's without allowing for the natural set backs you have such as the dislocation, etc.

In my humble opinion the early games showed a lack of ideas not legs. This is why I don't agree with your opinion.

Edited by Chez
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up and away

up and away

Posted
Posted
In my humble opinion the early games showed a lack of ideas not legs. This is why I don't agree with your opinion.

 

We all have opinions, but where is the logic for this "I'm getting a bit fed up of reading this tripe about Pardew working them too hard and that is the reason for everything bad about the start of the season" You freely admit that the problems with Puncheon, Barnard and Lambert were down to injuries picked up in pre-season. maybe that was the problem with Hammond as well. From the Plymouth match report I found on the Ugly "Hammond & Scheiderlin did not impose themselves in any way shape or form, Hammond looked injured and certainly in the last 10 minutes was too tired to do anything" So that gives you 4 key players in Hammond, Puncheon, Barnard and Lambert, not to mention how we mishandled Lallana. Is it any real surprise we started the season the way we did?

 

It does not matter why these players are not fit. The simple fact is that it is because of pre-season training that they are in this position. You can surmise Pardew was very unlucky, but that just does not fit when two experienced members of staff actually report to Cortese that what is being done to the players is more damaging than good. By reporting to Cortese in such a manner, you are really sticking your neck on the block to get it chopped off. Why would two independent sources go out on a limb with such accusations unless they were extremely confident about what was happening. Even if what they were saying was correct, but the players managed to attain fitness by the start of the season, they would have been gone. This was no being wise after the event, this was called at the time and individuals put their jobs on the line in coming forward.

 

We saw in the sacking of Benitez by Inter Milan, that analysis of his training and injuries collected were attributed to his methods and why no sympathy was allowed in that case. In our case you have two professionals go out on a limb and predict the outcome, not wait until after the event. The subsequent history of our injuries and fitness has proven them totally correct, with it taking half a season to fix the damage.

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Clifford Nelson

Clifford Nelson

Posted
Posted

There were a number of posters who seriously questioned what was going on in pre-season before a ball was kicked in anger. When it finally happened it wasn't a great surprise for them. There was no hindsight involved in that.

 

A considerate amount of posters also questioned Puncheon's value to the team already in the spring, and looking at his history thought that there were reasons to be suspicious about why he kept yo-yoing between league and non-league, and whether he was mentally tough enough for when it wasn't going for him and he was in for some critique.

 

I think it stands to reason that those concerns about pre-season and about Puncheon both came home to roost. It is most surprising to read those who now suggest that everything was just great, Pardew should have stayed in post, and, I presume, Puncheon should have been preferred to AOX. The likes of Stalin re-wrote history, but that's not a good enough reason to follow him. History is there to learn from, not to change.

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