Coalition prospects

[franny]

no..in that emergency treatment is then billed...all things are possible

 

Rntirely possible I think, might be wrong but I seem to recall my brother some years ago was billed for an ambulance after a car accident he was invovled (obviously paid for by insurance) and I also believe the Fire Brigade bill where they attend but no "life or property" in danger e.g. pull a donkey from a mud pond!

[badgerx16]

That said, it's an excellent result for Rupes.

Particularly as Jeremy Hunt, ( no spoonerisms here ), is on record as saying he can see no problems with the idea of Murdoch regaining control of BSkyB.

[solentstars]

Remember, even in a one party government there is massive disagreement and compromise. Political parties are all coalitions.

 

good point and i for one am glad we have a coalition party or cameron would be held to ransom by the lunatic anti euro,Thatcherite rump of his party which destroyed majors government .

[bridge too far]

Rntirely possible I think, might be wrong but I seem to recall my brother some years ago was billed for an ambulance after a car accident he was invovled (obviously paid for by insurance) and I also believe the Fire Brigade bill where they attend but no "life or property" in danger e.g. pull a donkey from a mud pond!

 

The NHS ALWAYS bills for treatment after a car accident whether you have private medical insurance or not. If you were to have a stroke or heart attack, it would serve no purpose at all to go straight to a private hospital. They don't have the facilities or the expertise to deal with emergency medicine. And they wouldn't want to - it's far too expensive to equip for this and private health premiums would have to rise hugely to cover such a cost. In any event, they send their emergencies (e.g. bodged plastic surgery) to the NHS to correct.

[bridge too far]

Particularly as Jeremy Hunt, ( no spoonerisms here ), is on record as saying he can see no problems with the idea of Murdoch regaining control of BSkyB.

 

Exactly - so he's as entrenched in his view as is Cable. So maybe he shouldn't be the final arbiter either.

[Verbal]

The NHS ALWAYS bills for treatment after a car accident whether you have private medical insurance or not. If you were to have a stroke or heart attack, it would serve no purpose at all to go straight to a private hospital. They don't have the facilities or the expertise to deal with emergency medicine. And they wouldn't want to - it's far too expensive to equip for this and private health premiums would have to rise hugely to cover such a cost. In any event, they send their emergencies (e.g. bodged plastic surgery) to the NHS to correct.

 

And so much more besides. The NHS is often treated like a dumping ground by the private health 'system' when they commit yet another **** up. Of course the NHS is hardly invulnerable to botching things sometimes, but when did you last see a local hospital palming off its mistakes on BUPA?

[franny]

And so much more besides. The NHS is often treated like a dumping ground by the private health 'system' when they commit yet another **** up. Of course the NHS is hardly invulnerable to botching things sometimes, but when did you last see a local hospital palming off its mistakes on BUPA?

 

No the Staffordshire Hospital just let many of their botch ups die.

[Verbal]

No the Staffordshire Hospital just let many of their botch ups die.

 

And it's terrible when that happens. But how did the private system help?

[Verbal]

Exactly - so he's as entrenched in his view as is Cable. So maybe he shouldn't be the final arbiter either.

 

Exactly. The signs of a stitch up here, in favour yet again of the Murdoch mafia, are painfully obvious.

[OldNick]

well all those who thought Cable was the messiah have got egg on their faces. His reputation was built on him saying about the borrowing not beig sustainable. Well there are a lot of people who were warning the same, so his reputation was always built on sand.

His judgment must be questioned, as he said such things to those reporters.

As for Milliband saying that he would have sacked him Lol, how many Labour cabinet members got into scrapes and then still kept their jobs or were re-instated???? he was not PM or leader then but he was still part of the government and i dont recall him resigning in principle.

[dune]

well all those who thought Cable was the messiah have got egg on their faces. His reputation was built on him saying about the borrowing not beig sustainable. Well there are a lot of people who were warning the same, so his reputation was always built on sand.

His judgment must be questioned, as he said such things to those reporters.

As for Milliband saying that he would have sacked him Lol, how many Labour cabinet members got into scrapes and then still kept their jobs or were re-instated???? he was not PM or leader then but he was still part of the government and i dont recall him resigning in principle.

 

Leave Davids brother alone, the more exposure he gets the better.

[Saintandy666]

good point and i for one am glad we have a coalition party or cameron would be held to ransom by the lunatic anti euro,Thatcherite rump of his party which destroyed majors government .

 

Exactly, as a Liberal Democrat I am not overjoyed at some of the policy coming out of this government and I won't stop arguing where I think they are wrong. However, I prefer this arrangement to a pure Tory government any day of the week.

[Verbal]

Leave Davids brother alone, the more exposure he gets the better.

 

I suppose I should give up trying to make sense of your posts. How can you both 'leave him alone' and get him 'more exposure'. Here's a suggestion: go away and sit in a dark room for a while. When you feel some synapses reconnecting (you'll hear the echo) come back and post something sensible. I wait in anticipation (or is that in vain?)

Edited 22 December, 2010 by Verbal

[hypochondriac]

Exactly, as a Liberal Democrat I am not overjoyed at some of the policy coming out of this government and I won't stop arguing where I think they are wrong. However, I prefer this arrangement to a pure Tory government any day of the week.

 

Can I ask you what attracted you to become a Liberal? Also why you felt specific policies were superior to those offered by rival parties? Perhaps you could start with the letting all asylum seekers become citizens policy. Maybe you could explain how workable that would have been? There are quite a few others as well but that was one which really stuck out during the election.

[dune]

I suppose I should give up trying to make sense of your posts. How can you both 'leave him alone' and get him 'more exposure'. Here's a suggestion: go away and sit in a dark room for a while. When you feel some synapses reconnecting (you'll hear the echo) come back and post something sensible. I wait in anticipation (or is that in vain?)

 

Shut up gobby.

[franny]

And it's terrible when that happens. But how did the private system help?

 

Not as far as I know, but my point is that given poor management, poor or uncaring attitudes botch ups happen every where consistently. Having witnessed my mothers treatment in recent years at both Southampton and Winchester NHS hospitals (left on a trolley for over 12 hours with a broken hip, dirty wards, soiled bed linen) and contrast that with the treatment my wife received in a private hospital for a major operation I know where I would prefer to have any treatment.

Whilst I do not boast about it yes I have private health insurance but I am not "as thick as they come or have an infinite capacity for self-delusion....or both". I have been a director of two multi nationals and run my own business now. I have not had it easy and grew up as one of seven children in very financially constrained conditions and have what I have through hard work, discipline and self reliance all drilled into me by my parents and I am capable of making decisions and do not need others to lecture me about what I spend my money on.

Whilst there are some posters on here from the left who speak some sense some of the self styled socialists on this site are absolutely laughable and seem to be as thick as they come or have an infinite capacity for self-delusion....or both.

 

Third post today, over and out.

[Verbal]

Shut up gobby.

 

I'm hurt.

 

Now go away and try to THINK. Then we can have a sensible debate.

[Verbal]

Not as far as I know, but my point is that given poor management, poor or uncaring attitudes botch ups happen every where consistently. Having witnessed my mothers treatment in recent years at both Southampton and Winchester NHS hospitals (left on a trolley for over 12 hours with a broken hip, dirty wards, soiled bed linen) and contrast that with the treatment my wife received in a private hospital for a major operation I know where I would prefer to have any treatment.

Whilst I do not boast about it yes I have private health insurance but I am not "as thick as they come or have an infinite capacity for self-delusion....or both". I have been a director of two multi nationals and run my own business now. I have not had it easy and grew up as one of seven children in very financially constrained conditions and have what I have through hard work, discipline and self reliance all drilled into me by my parents and I am capable of making decisions and do not need others to lecture me about what I spend my money on.

Whilst there are some posters on here from the left who speak some sense some of the self styled socialists on this site are absolutely laughable and seem to be as thick as they come or have an infinite capacity for self-delusion....or both.

 

Third post today, over and out.

 

Third post, eh? In which case...

 

Not another 'where there's muck there's brass', 'I'll ave-a-go' entrepreneur whose self-pulled bootstraps are strained to breaking point! There are so many on here! And I believe every word.

 

The point I was making about the private health system is that it's a one-way street. They **** up - the NHS fixes it. The NHS ****s up, the privates do not fix it.

[Verbal]

Exactly - so he's as entrenched in his view as is Cable. So maybe he shouldn't be the final arbiter either.

 

Well it seems Jeremy Hunt is more 'entrenched' than he seems. He's actually in the pocket of the Murdochs, breaking civil service rules in pursuit of his obeisance to the Great Rupert (and son). No wonder the Tories got Cable the elbow from this.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/dec/22/conservative-links-murdoch-private-meeting

[pap]

good point and i for one am glad we have a coalition party or cameron would be held to ransom by the lunatic anti euro,Thatcherite rump of his party which destroyed majors government .

 

It's weird, but I was very much for Europe back in the day. Not so sure now. The advantages don't seem worth the cost. Arguably the biggest, the free market, is something that other countries enjoy without paying for the privilege of membership. The rest of it, I think we can thoroughly do without.

 

Returning to the subject of the coalition, our problem is that we're not presently set up for coalition government. We're used to a party with a large majority and confrontational politics between all parties. The same people who were ripping shreds out of each other a year ago are now having to work together. Conservative backbenchers, who might otherwise be enjoying a junior ministerial number, are having to sit on the sidelines to make way for former adversaries. It's a shame, because with the proper setup, coalition government can work. Germany remain the strongest economic power in Europe, and are governed by coalition.

 

The problem with British politics is that political parties are too concerned with telling you who they are and what they stand for. I'd prefer that instead, they conjure up a decent assessment of the country's problems and a solid plan for resolution. There is no other business in the world where you would keep your job if :-

 

a) you said you could do x, y and z in an interview

b) you did the complete opposite afterward

 

The problem is, you can't sack a politician in this country, yet they're supposed to work for us. The right to recall a politician needs to be made law.

[Saintandy666]

Can I ask you what attracted you to become a Liberal? Also why you felt specific policies were superior to those offered by rival parties? Perhaps you could start with the letting all asylum seekers become citizens policy. Maybe you could explain how workable that would have been? There are quite a few others as well but that was one which really stuck out during the election.

 

The policy on Asylum Seekers was not 'let them all become citizens'. It was to hand over the decisions of who can stay to an independent body and allow asylum seekers to work rather than just live off the state. Don't see a problem with that?

 

Other than that it was their policies on political reform, economic reform(tax system etc) and then other stuff like tuition fees policy and so on and so forth.

[solentstars]

It's weird, but I was very much for Europe back in the day. Not so sure now. The advantages don't seem worth the cost. Arguably the biggest, the free market, is something that other countries enjoy without paying for the privilege of membership. The rest of it, I think we can thoroughly do without.

 

Returning to the subject of the coalition, our problem is that we're not presently set up for coalition government. We're used to a party with a large majority and confrontational politics between all parties. The same people who were ripping shreds out of each other a year ago are now having to work together. Conservative backbenchers, who might otherwise be enjoying a junior ministerial number, are having to sit on the sidelines to make way for former adversaries. It's a shame, because with the proper setup, coalition government can work. Germany remain the strongest economic power in Europe, and are governed by coalition.

 

The problem with British politics is that political parties are too concerned with telling you who they are and what they stand for. I'd prefer that instead, they conjure up a decent assessment of the country's problems and a solid plan for resolution. There is no other business in the world where you would keep your job if :-

 

a) you said you could do x, y and z in an interview

b) you did the complete opposite afterward

 

The problem is, you can't sack a politician in this country, yet they're supposed to work for us. The right to recall a politician needs to be made law.

 

good post i come from a generation when labour were the anti eu party and torys pro europe and i think europe is used by politicians to stir passions to mask their own failings has governments and play to the gallery ,i wish sometimes wish we could learn from the germans on long term planning and investment rather than the winner takes it all Victorian mentality we have has a nation..

[Shandy_Top_89]

ah right..you dont like the idea of the tories being in office and say they are not that popular..yet when we talk about the liberals (also being in office) on quite a bit less votes...thats ok

 

gotcha

 

 

To be fair the Lib Dems get insanely screwed over by FPTP; 23 % of the vote (6.8 Million / 29 Million votes) = 57/650 seats (8.8%)

 

In contrast -

 

Conservatives - 36.1% (10.7 Million votes) = 306/650 seats (47.1%)

Labour - 29% (8.6 Million votes) = 258/650 seats (39.7%)

 

FPTP with the current constituency boundaries is broken and regardless of the Lib Dems recent action, it would be a great shame if people decide to devalue their own electoral value just to get one over on the Lib Dems. Unlike others I dont view a majority government as the be all and end all, the current Coalition is better united than the Conservative party alone from 1990-97.

 

As for Cable I think he is just being a typical politician, telling who he believed were two disillusioned constituents what they wanted to hear. Im more concerned about his abuse of his position in the Murdoch takeover (despite the fact I think that Murdoch is an extremely damaging influence in world politics and media, and hope the takeover bid is dead in the water). Its highly likely that Conservative MPs and ministers make the same sort of comments about the Lib Dems, but the Telegraph has focused on the Lib Dems alone. Not to say that I think any of this is right.

[Shandy_Top_89]

To be fair the Lib Dems get insanely screwed over by FPTP; 23 % of the vote (6.8 Million / 29 Million votes) = 57/650 seats (8.8%)

 

In contrast -

 

Conservatives - 36.1% (10.7 Million votes) = 306/650 seats (47.1%)

Labour - 29% (8.6 Million votes) = 258/650 seats (39.7%)

 

FPTP with the current constituency boundaries is broken and regardless of the Lib Dems recent action, it would be a great shame if people decide to devalue their own electoral value just to get one over on the Lib Dems. Unlike others I dont view a majority government as the be all and end all, the current Coalition is better united than the Conservative party alone from 1990-97.

 

As for Cable I think he is just being a typical politician, telling who he believed were two disillusioned constituents what they wanted to hear. Im more concerned about his abuse of his position in the Murdoch takeover (despite the fact I think that Murdoch is an extremely damaging influence in world politics and media, and hope the takeover bid is dead in the water). Its highly likely that Conservative MPs and ministers make the same sort of comments about the Lib Dems, but the Telegraph has focused on the Lib Dems alone. Not to say that I think any of this is right.

 

On the FPTP point I forgot to add that under PR (although its currently not under consideration, just thought this was an interesting fact) the Lib Dems would have 71 seats with their current abysmal poll rating. Under FPTP with over double that in the election they achieved 14 seats less.

[dune]

LIBERAL DEMOCRATS SHOW WHY THEY ARE NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

 

A SELF-MADE man, Vince Cable has always worshipped his creator. The extraordinary self‐regard and vanity of the Liberal Democrat Business Secretary has created a major political crisis that not only threatens his own career as a Cabinet minister but also undermines the very existence of the coalition.

 

Showing an incredible mix of foolishness, disloyalty and arrogance, Cable recently told a pair of under‐cover reporters a babbling torrent of indiscretions that expose the deep fissures within the Government.

 

He attacked the Tories for their “Maoist” plans on public service reform, revealed explosive rows within the Cabinet over economic policy and even boasted that he held the “nuclear option” of resignation.

 

“If they push me too far, I can walk out and bring the Government down,” he said triumphantly, again displaying his monumental ego. Above all, he announced he had “declared war on Rupert Murdoch”, the media proprietor who is trying to buy out the whole of Sky TV.

 

All this narcissistic, divisive talk shows how utterly unfit Cable is for Cabinet office. In his role as Business Secretary he was meant to be impartial in adjudicating on the Murdoch bid for Sky yet he was only too happy to flaunt his naked bias. Moreover, in talking so frankly to a pair of complete strangers, he demonstrated that he has no sense of Cabinet responsibility.

 

BUT then Cable was always grossly over-rated. He rose to the top of politics by posing as an economic sage and by courting public popularity. But beneath the veneer of genial wisdom there lurked a conceited mediocrity whose approach to economic policy was hopelessly incoherent, largely driven by sentimentality and fashionable left‐wing dogma. It is no coincidence that Cable was a labour activist for much of his adult life, sitting as a labour councillor in Glasgow and trying to become a labour MP in the 1979 general election.

 

Yet despite his spectacular misjudgments Cable has been allowed to remain in the Cabinet. Any Tory who behaved like him would have been thrown out immediately. Indeed, earlier this month David Cameron sacked his adviser lord Young over mild comments about the economy which were far less indiscreet than Cable’s outburst. Cable’s retention of his post, even though his role overseeing media policy has been removed, just shows the weakness of the coalition. David Cameron is so desperate to retain Lib Dem support that he feels compelled to put up with almost any act of disloyalty from the party’s ministers, no matter how humiliating.

 

In fact it is possible that Cable was trying to goad the Prime Minister into sacking him. For months he has sounded off in a similar fashion around Westminster, portraying himself as the rebel inside the machine. According to this theory, once he had been kicked out he could then put himself at the head of the anti‐coalition dissidents, challenge Nick Clegg for the leadership and emerge as the hero of the people, always his favourite role.

 

Tragically for the stability of the Government, Cable’s untrustworthy behaviour seems endemic among the Lib Dems. The coalition partner is now being exposed as alarmingly unreliable.

 

Yesterday, three other Lib Dem ministers were caught attacking Government policies. One, the Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, called the policy on tuition fees “a car crash”; another, the Pensions Minister Steve Webb, criticised child benefit changes while the third, Ed Davey, argued that planned housing benefit cuts are “deeply unacceptable”.

 

This serial carping demonstrates two problems about many of the Liberal Democrats. First, they are dangerously irresponsible and unprofessional. They are meant to be running the country not a student union. It is absurd for ministers to blab away to complete strangers about highly sensitive issues of state policy.

 

Second, they have adopted a self‐indulgent, semi‐detached attitude towards the Coalition, as if they really want to be in the comfort zone of left‐wing opposition. It is a pathetic stance to take. The Lib Dems made their choice in May when they agreed to form the coalition. It was the right decision to make then for the sake of Britain. another spell of spendthrift Labour rule would have dragged us into financial ruin.

 

But having made that choice they have a duty to ensure its success. Remaining half‐hearted about the coalition will achieve nothing. The party will live or die by what it achieves in office, not by wailing to the media.

 

SOME figures, especially Nick Clegg, have faced up to this reality but others want to have it both ways, enjoying the fruits of power while distancing themselves from hard decisions. It is time to abandon the classic liberal tactic of fence sitting, which has been integral to the party’s character for too long.

 

Instead of whining the Lib Dems should be grateful for office. They only came a distant third at the general election and lost seats compared to 2005. They should stop seeing themselves as a left‐wing party that seeks to prevent the Government taking sensible action to rebuild our country.

 

If they really believed in democracy they would support a tougher line on immigration, the farcical Human Rights Act and the European Union. At present, as they posture like adolescents, they are nothing but an embarrassing burden to the Government.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/218922/Liberal-Democrats-show-why-they-are-not-fit-for-purpose

[franny]

Third post, eh? In which case...

 

Not another 'where there's muck there's brass', 'I'll ave-a-go' entrepreneur whose self-pulled bootstraps are strained to breaking point! There are so many on here! And I believe every word.

 

The point I was making about the private health system is that it's a one-way street. They **** up - the NHS fixes it. The NHS ****s up, the privates do not fix it.

 

I do not have to defend myself to you, there are others on here who know me so I have no gain in telling lies to you to make a point. I can see from your posts that you have some intelligence but I can also see that you are arrogant, rude and disrespectful to others who happen to disagree with you on this thread and others. People like Dubai Phil & Whitey Grandad (I do not know them) seem to generally make good intelligent points but you seem to enjoy being rude and baiting them. You spend a lot of time on here so clearly it is a big part of your life so will leave you to it.

[solentstars]

LIBERAL DEMOCRATS SHOW WHY THEY ARE NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE

 

A SELF-MADE man, Vince Cable has always worshipped his creator. The extraordinary self‐regard and vanity of the Liberal Democrat Business Secretary has created a major political crisis that not only threatens his own career as a Cabinet minister but also undermines the very existence of the coalition.

 

Showing an incredible mix of foolishness, disloyalty and arrogance, Cable recently told a pair of under‐cover reporters a babbling torrent of indiscretions that expose the deep fissures within the Government.

 

He attacked the Tories for their “Maoist” plans on public service reform, revealed explosive rows within the Cabinet over economic policy and even boasted that he held the “nuclear option” of resignation.

 

“If they push me too far, I can walk out and bring the Government down,” he said triumphantly, again displaying his monumental ego. Above all, he announced he had “declared war on Rupert Murdoch”, the media proprietor who is trying to buy out the whole of Sky TV.

 

All this narcissistic, divisive talk shows how utterly unfit Cable is for Cabinet office. In his role as Business Secretary he was meant to be impartial in adjudicating on the Murdoch bid for Sky yet he was only too happy to flaunt his naked bias. Moreover, in talking so frankly to a pair of complete strangers, he demonstrated that he has no sense of Cabinet responsibility.

 

BUT then Cable was always grossly over-rated. He rose to the top of politics by posing as an economic sage and by courting public popularity. But beneath the veneer of genial wisdom there lurked a conceited mediocrity whose approach to economic policy was hopelessly incoherent, largely driven by sentimentality and fashionable left‐wing dogma. It is no coincidence that Cable was a labour activist for much of his adult life, sitting as a labour councillor in Glasgow and trying to become a labour MP in the 1979 general election.

 

Yet despite his spectacular misjudgments Cable has been allowed to remain in the Cabinet. Any Tory who behaved like him would have been thrown out immediately. Indeed, earlier this month David Cameron sacked his adviser lord Young over mild comments about the economy which were far less indiscreet than Cable’s outburst. Cable’s retention of his post, even though his role overseeing media policy has been removed, just shows the weakness of the coalition. David Cameron is so desperate to retain Lib Dem support that he feels compelled to put up with almost any act of disloyalty from the party’s ministers, no matter how humiliating.

 

In fact it is possible that Cable was trying to goad the Prime Minister into sacking him. For months he has sounded off in a similar fashion around Westminster, portraying himself as the rebel inside the machine. According to this theory, once he had been kicked out he could then put himself at the head of the anti‐coalition dissidents, challenge Nick Clegg for the leadership and emerge as the hero of the people, always his favourite role.

 

Tragically for the stability of the Government, Cable’s untrustworthy behaviour seems endemic among the Lib Dems. The coalition partner is now being exposed as alarmingly unreliable.

 

Yesterday, three other Lib Dem ministers were caught attacking Government policies. One, the Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, called the policy on tuition fees “a car crash”; another, the Pensions Minister Steve Webb, criticised child benefit changes while the third, Ed Davey, argued that planned housing benefit cuts are “deeply unacceptable”.

 

This serial carping demonstrates two problems about many of the Liberal Democrats. First, they are dangerously irresponsible and unprofessional. They are meant to be running the country not a student union. It is absurd for ministers to blab away to complete strangers about highly sensitive issues of state policy.

 

Second, they have adopted a self‐indulgent, semi‐detached attitude towards the Coalition, as if they really want to be in the comfort zone of left‐wing opposition. It is a pathetic stance to take. The Lib Dems made their choice in May when they agreed to form the coalition. It was the right decision to make then for the sake of Britain. another spell of spendthrift Labour rule would have dragged us into financial ruin.

 

But having made that choice they have a duty to ensure its success. Remaining half‐hearted about the coalition will achieve nothing. The party will live or die by what it achieves in office, not by wailing to the media.

 

SOME figures, especially Nick Clegg, have faced up to this reality but others want to have it both ways, enjoying the fruits of power while distancing themselves from hard decisions. It is time to abandon the classic liberal tactic of fence sitting, which has been integral to the party’s character for too long.

 

Instead of whining the Lib Dems should be grateful for office. They only came a distant third at the general election and lost seats compared to 2005. They should stop seeing themselves as a left‐wing party that seeks to prevent the Government taking sensible action to rebuild our country.

 

If they really believed in democracy they would support a tougher line on immigration, the farcical Human Rights Act and the European Union. At present, as they posture like adolescents, they are nothing but an embarrassing burden to the Government.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/218922/Liberal-Democrats-show-why-they-are-not-fit-for-purpose

 

i bet you can,t wait for the days of a far right government to crush demoracy and impose a one party state with all the right wing looneys.its funny how all your links are to groups like edf/bnp/nf/anti-eu groups.

i think we all know what you stand for.

[dune]

i bet you can,t wait for the days of a far right government to crush demoracy and impose a one party state with all the right wing looneys.its funny how all your links are to groups like edf/bnp/nf/anti-eu groups.

i think we all know what you stand for.

 

I don't want a far right government, just a proper rightwing government. This country was great once and it can be great again, but it'll take rightwing government to get us there. Under Thatcher we went from the sick man of Europe to 5th in the world rankings. That is what a real Conservative government can achieve, and that is why in 2015 if we can get a Tory majority govt this country will re-assert itself on the global stage and it will better for all of us that are prepared to work if we could do this. The only people that would suffer would be the bone idle slobs and frankly I couldn't give a **** about them. If they can't be arsed to get out of bed in the morning and do a days work then why should I, or anyone else, subsidise them?

Edited 23 December, 2010 by dune

[solentstars]

I don't want a far right government, just a proper rightwing government. This country was great once and it can be great again, but it'll take rightwing government to get us there. Under Thatcher we went from the sick man of Europe to 5th in the world rankings. That is what a real Conservative government can achieve, and that is why in 2015 if we can get a Tory majority govt this country will re-assert itself on the global stage and it will better for all of us that are prepared to work if we could do this. The only people that would suffer would be the bone idle slobs and frankly I couldn't give a **** about them. If they can't be arsed to get out of bed in the morning and do a days work then why should I, or anyone else, subsidise them?

i suspect the likes of hitler said the same thing before they imposed their contempt of demoracy.

i don,t understand why you hate the working classes of this country and your love of extreme groups.

[Gingeletiss]

I do not have to defend myself to you, there are others on here who know me so I have no gain in telling lies to you to make a point. I can see from your posts that you have some intelligence but I can also see that you are arrogant, rude and disrespectful to others who happen to disagree with you on this thread and others. People like Dubai Phil & Whitey Grandad (I do not know them) seem to generally make good intelligent points but you seem to enjoy being rude and baiting them. You spend a lot of time on here so clearly it is a big part of your life so will leave you to it.

 

Blimey!!! you do know him after all!

[Gingeletiss]

i suspect the likes of hitler said the same thing before they imposed their contempt of demoracy.

i don,t understand why you hate the working classes of this country and your love of extreme groups.

 

Why generalise..........I'm working class, of council house stock, yet I'm Tory. It's about political belief, not what 'class' you fit into!

[dune]

i suspect the likes of hitler said the same thing before they imposed their contempt of demoracy.

i don,t understand why you hate the working classes of this country and your love of extreme groups.

 

I have nothing against the working classes, it's the unworking classes I have a problem with. And how is UKIP an extreme group? If they are extreme then why did they come 2nd in the European Elections?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm

[solentstars]

Why generalise..........I'm working class, of council house stock, yet I'm Tory. It's about political belief, not what 'class' you fit into!

 

so are your saying that you belong to the dune type of so called torys then.

[dune]

so are your saying that you belong to the dune type of so called torys then.

 

As opposed to the middle class hobby Socialists that don't have to live with the consequences of economically ignorant Socialism. Make no mistake Socialism is only good if you're rich enough to be charitable, or that idle that you need handouts. If you're working class (literally working) then a Conservative government is your best friend.

[solentstars]

As opposed to the middle class hobby Socialists that don't have to live with the consequences of economically ignorant Socialism. Make no mistake Socialism is only good if you're rich enough to be charitable, or that idle that you need handouts. If you're working class (literally working) then a Conservative government is your best friend.

 

you really need to come out with your real views and i bet you despise the present liberal conservative party and hope the far right extremists hijack the party .

i believe in the social market economy,just has every government incldeing thatcher since the war rather then the pre war policy's you want to bring back.

[dune]

you really need to come out with your real views and i bet you despise the present liberal conservative party and hope the far right extremists hijack the party .

i believe in the social market economy,just has every government incldeing thatcher since the war rather then the pre war policy's you want to bring back.

 

For now I think we need to be accomodating towards the Liberals. We can't afford for the coalition to collapse whilst the austerity measures haven't achieved their goals of building a strong economy. Once Britain is booming and there is a feel good factor then it's time to force the Liberals into making the error of bringing down the govt forcing an election that we can win. Result a Conservative majority and a dead Liberal party. The Conservatives can campaign on how they brought Britain back from the brink and how the Liberals betrayed the British publics trust in them to govern. Just so long as Davids little brother is still in charge of Labour the plan is genious.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Third post, eh? In which case...

 

Not another 'where there's muck there's brass', 'I'll ave-a-go' entrepreneur whose self-pulled bootstraps are strained to breaking point! There are so many on here! And I believe every word.

 

The point I was making about the private health system is that it's a one-way street. They **** up - the NHS fixes it. The NHS ****s up, the privates do not fix it.

 

Franny tells the truth about his own upbringing and welcome success through the teachings of his parents and teachers and, undoubtedly, his great efforts to improve on his situation.

 

The problem with any internet forum is that a person can appear to be whosoever they wish to be. This can obviously lead to cynicism.

 

In this particular case there is no need for cynicism. I grew up with Franny from the age of 4 when we started primary school. I can vouch for his veracity.

 

You are, of course, totally free to doubt my veracity.

[Verbal]

Franny tells the truth about his own upbringing and welcome success through the teachings of his parents and teachers and, undoubtedly, his great efforts to improve on his situation.

 

The problem with any internet forum is that a person can appear to be whosoever they wish to be. This can obviously lead to cynicism.

 

In this particular case there is no need for cynicism. I grew up with Franny from the age of 4 when we started primary school. I can vouch for his veracity.

 

You are, of course, totally free to doubt my veracity.

 

I was pulling his leg ESB - it wasn't the point I was making.

[LGTL]

Franny tells the truth about his own upbringing and welcome success through the teachings of his parents and teachers and, undoubtedly, his great efforts to improve on his situation.

 

The problem with any internet forum is that a person can appear to be whosoever they wish to be. This can obviously lead to cynicism.

 

In this particular case there is no need for cynicism. I grew up with Franny from the age of 4 when we started primary school. I can vouch for his veracity.

 

You are, of course, totally free to doubt my veracity.

 

He does have a point though, near enough every second poster on here left school at 6, "grafted" and were head of their own company earning £2 million a year at 14, whilst finding a cure for Cancer and Heart Disease at the weekend.

[The Majestic Channon]

Why generalise..........I'm working class, of council house stock, yet I'm Tory. It's about political belief, not what 'class' you fit into!

 

You strange person, talk about feeding the hand that bites you...

[dune]

You strange person, talk about feeding the hand that bites you...

 

That is complete nonsense. Labour over the past 13 years have done nothing for the working classes. All Labours efforts benefitted slob families like Karen Matthews and her ilk and immigrant families that they've let in, housed and supported with benefits. If you're a white working class family you will have seen your slob neighbours given handouts left right and centre and you will have seen immigrant families given houses, benefits and jobs. And the very fact that these immigrants have flooded in will have seen wages supressed because of the simple logic of supply and demand. At the same time Labour has increased taxes time and time again and indebted the country with a bloated public service and mountain debt that need paying back. The Conservative party on the other hand believe in less beurocracy and more freedom by allowing people to keep their own money. This creates jobs and wealth for the people that get out there and are prepared to work. That is how it should be and I bet if you speak to true working class people and ask them whether they should be allowed to keep more of the money they earn as oposed to supporting slob families and eastern european families then they would say of course they should, and the irony is that they probably vote Labour but the fact of the matter is that they should be voting Conservative.

 

Voting Conservative and admitting to be a Conservative voter has always been a stigma for working class people, but in the 1980's we saw that the working classes knew a good thing and voted Margaret Thatcher back in time and time again. They did this despite the Conservative party being populated by toffs because unlike idiots with chips on their shoulders they knew what was good for them.

 

The same will happen in 2015 as happened in the 1980's. British people know what is good for them and that is a Conservative government.

[Foxstone]

At times of austerity caused by tax and spend policies of a labour government, I agree with Dune that 1980's conservative politics as seen under Maggie is a bloody good medicine.

 

I too was one with working class roots who was proud to vote for Maggie in the 1980s - She represented my aspirations and views as to what I thought was right for the time

 

My concern is that there is currently no Maggie to put right what is wrong!

 

Cameron is a "wishy washy" - "Wanna be everyones friend" media obsessed lightweight with no guts !

 

Yes Maggie divided opinion, but my god could we do with her now!

[dune]

Cameron is a "wishy washy" - "Wanna be everyones friend" media obsessed lightweight with no guts !

 

Yes Maggie divided opinion, but my god could we do with her now!

 

I don't think he is "wishy washy", he's just playing the hand he's been dealt in the times we live in.

 

Unlike Magaret Thatcher in 1979 and more so in 1983, he doesn't have not only a majority as in 79, but a huge majority as in 83 when Thacther could do exactly as she pleased. He is having to tread carefully for now an put up with dinlos like Vince Cable because another election at this stage would be inconclusive at best or deliver a Labour win at worst. What he is waiting for is for the cuts to start reaping rewards. Once this happens and the public start thinking "the Tories might be toffs but they've made me better off" then the need to appease the Liberals dimishes and it could be advantageous to ensnare them and cause them to break up the coalition and go to the polls. With a Conservative majority and no need to use the Liberals we would certainly see a more Conservative approach and a better chance of a sucessful Britain.

[Foxstone]

That is complete nonsense. Labour over the past 13 years have done nothing for the working classes. All Labours efforts benefitted slob families like Karen Matthews and her ilk and immigrant families that they've let in, housed and supported with benefits. If you're a white working class family you will have seen your slob neighbours given handouts left right and centre and you will have seen immigrant families given houses, benefits and jobs. And the very fact that these immigrants have flooded in will have seen wages supressed because of the simple logic of supply and demand. At the same time Labour has increased taxes time and time again and indebted the country with a bloated public service and mountain debt that need paying back. The Conservative party on the other hand believe in less beurocracy and more freedom by allowing people to keep their own money. This creates jobs and wealth for the people that get out there and are prepared to work. That is how it should be and I bet if you speak to true working class people and ask them whether they should be allowed to keep more of the money they earn as oposed to supporting slob families and eastern european families then they would say of course they should, and the irony is that they probably vote Labour but the fact of the matter is that they should be voting Conservative.

 

Voting Conservative and admitting to be a Conservative voter has always been a stigma for working class people, but in the 1980's we saw that the working classes knew a good thing and voted Margaret Thatcher back in time and time again. They did this despite the Conservative party being populated by toffs because unlike idiots with chips on their shoulders they knew what was good for them.

 

The same will happen in 2015 as happened in the 1980's. British people know what is good for them and that is a Conservative government.

 

Many "working class" people have a strong work ethic, and this was encouraged during the Thatcher years of the 1980 - It matched many peoples values and beliefs regardless of "class or background".

 

Now we are faced with "work hard get taxed hard" to fulfil a load of over-liberal, politically correct bull****e instead!

 

I know which era I prefer.

[Lord Duckhunter]

As opposed to the middle class hobby Socialists that don't have to live with the consequences of economically ignorant Socialism. Make no mistake Socialism is only good if you're rich enough to be charitable, or that idle that you need handouts. If you're working class (literally working) then a Conservative government is your best friend.

 

You are right, however any Govt that containts Leftie Ken Clarke can hardly be called Tory. It comes to something when the lefties are on the right of a Tory Govt when it comes to crime and punishment.

[Foxstone]

I don't think he is "wishy washy", he's just playing the hand he's been dealt in the times we live in.

 

Unlike Magaret Thatcher in 1979 and more so in 1983, he doesn't have not only a majority as in 79, but a huge majority as in 83 when Thacther could do exactly as she pleased. He is having to tread carefully for now an put up with dinlos like Vince Cable because another election at this stage would be inconclusive at best or deliver a Labour win at worst. What he is waiting for is for the cuts to start reaping rewards. Once this happens and the public start thinking "the Tories might be toffs but they've made me better off" then the need to appease the Liberals dimishes and it could be advantageous to ensnare them and cause them to break up the coalition and go to the polls. With a Conservative majority and no need to use the Liberals we would certainly see a more Conservative approach and a better chance of a sucessful Britain.

 

I understand and agree that the dynamics of the coalition must mean Cameron has to play a different hand right now, but I have yet to see any firm principles or beleifs from him that indicate to me that he is prepared to make tough ( but nevertheless popular with many) decisions.

He talks a good game of course, but the jury is still out from me as to whether he will deliver.

[dune]

You are right, however any Govt that containts Leftie Ken Clarke can hardly be called Tory. It comes to something when the lefties are on the right of a Tory Govt when it comes to crime and punishment.

 

But Clarke is right, and Michael Howard was wrong - prison as it is now doesn't work. The re-offending rates prove this point conclusively. I would introduce the policy "Work sets you free". Chain gangs are a tried and tested option, but there are myriad other options from treadmills to create free energy to industry on a large scale. In prisons there is far too much spare time - make prisoners work, make prisons profitable, and you will make prison work.

[dune]

I understand and agree that the dynamics of the coalition must mean Cameron has to play a different hand right now, but I have yet to see any firm principles or beleifs from him that indicate to me that he is prepared to make tough ( but nevertheless popular with many) decisions.

He talks a good game of course, but the jury is still out from me as to whether he will deliver.

 

I'm currently a member of the UKIP and at present have no intention of leaving this party in favour of the Conservatives. That said I do want to see a Conservative majority in 2015 because only under these circumstances can we really assess the situation.

[Foxstone]

I'm currently a member of the UKIP and at present have no intention of leaving this party in favour of the Conservatives. That said I do want to see a Conservative majority in 2015 because only under these circumstances can we really assess the situation.

 

I think it is a measure of many peoples distrust of Cameron that folk like yourself ( and me as a protest vote on occasions), feel they have to turn to UKIP to feel their vote counts.

 

1980's under Thatcher had no need for other parties - She represented hard working, stand on your own two feet folk and reap your rewards for doing so.

People from all walks of life voted for her as they agreed with her general philosophy.

[Gingeletiss]

......Labour over the past 13 years have done nothing for the working classes. All Labours efforts benefitted slob families like Karen Matthews and her ilk and immigrant families that they've let in, housed and supported with benefits. If you're a white working class family you will have seen your slob neighbours given handouts left right and centre and you will have seen immigrant families given houses, benefits and jobs.

 

Thems the words I was looking for, Dune! you have it in a nutshell!