Coalition prospects

[pap]

So, does anyone rate the chances of this Parliament lasting until 2015, given the recent revelations from Vince Cable? Full story is all over the news, but essentially, he likens coalition government to war. In another brillant move, he also stated his intention to prevent Rupert Murdoch from acquiring the rest of BSkyB. The knives may well be out.

 

Division is hardly new. That's why we have on-message ministers and barracking back-benchers, even in Governments which hold a significant majority. This isn't a majority Government and support for the Lib Dems is eroding rapidly. You've got to wonder how many of their MPs fear losing their seats.

 

How long do you think the Coalition has got? Is there a turning point for them?

[Thedelldays]

if the coalition fails.......it will lead to a full Tory government one way or another

 

i really want to say YES PLEASE but I will get shouted at by people on the internet

[Colinjb]

if the coalition fails.......it will lead to a full Tory government one way or another

 

i really want to say YES PLEASE but I will get shouted at by people on the internet

 

+1.

[pap]

if the coalition fails.......it will lead to a full Tory government one way or another

 

Dunno. We've already seen the transition from the politics of hope ( "we're cuddly Tories. we care about the environment" ) to the politics of fear ( "the country's f*cked. we're going to cut your monetary bolox off!" ). A lot of people who might have been hoodwinked this year may change their vote.

 

That said, this current Labour lot don't really seem to have a plan either - so you could well be right. As usual, the Southampton constituencies will be key.

[ericb]

Well so far we've seen numerous jobs cut, knock on job losses in the private sector, tuition fees rise, cuts in the arts, cuts in the coastguard and maritime agency, talk of censorship of the internet and yet still allowing vodaphone not to pay their taxes.

 

God alone knows what they'd get away with if it was just the Tories (privatisation of the NHS anyone?) so lets pray that if there is an election it's a lib-lab coalition this time since a Tory majority scares the **** out of me.

 

Mind you with that in mind i don't really think there's a seriously electable party in the country at the moment which is worrying trend.

[dune]

privatisation of the NHS anyone?

 

I'd be supportive of privatisation. We'd get a far better (cheaper) deal by opening health care up to market competition. Also I already have private health care insurance so why should I pay into the NHS?

[pap]

Well so far we've seen numerous jobs cut, knock on job losses in the private sector, tuition fees rise, cuts in the arts, cuts in the coastguard and maritime agency, talk of censorship of the internet and yet still allowing vodaphone not to pay their taxes.

 

God alone knows what they'd get away with if it was just the Tories (privatisation of the NHS anyone?) so lets pray that if there is an election it's a lib-lab coalition this time since a Tory majority scares the **** out of me.

 

Mind you with that in mind i don't really think there's a seriously electable party in the country at the moment which is worrying trend.

 

Agree with pretty much all of that.

 

Also, the way they're handling the housing benefit bill is scandalous. I think we can all agree that £400 a week is a staggering amount of money to be paying for rent. Instead of going after the underyling problem, namely, the fact that it costs so much to live here, they've decided to wash the poor out of London. Councils there are already block-booking B+B's in dismal seaside towns.

[Gingeletiss]

Well so far we've seen numerous jobs cut, knock on job losses in the private sector, tuition fees rise, cuts in the arts, cuts in the coastguard and maritime agency, talk of censorship of the internet and yet still allowing vodaphone not to pay their taxes.

 

God alone knows what they'd get away with if it was just the Tories (privatisation of the NHS anyone?) so lets pray that if there is an election it's a lib-lab coalition this time since a Tory majority scares the **** out of me.

 

Mind you with that in mind i don't really think there's a seriously electable party in the country at the moment which is worrying trend.

 

Cripes!!....do you really want more from the very people, who have placed this country in jeopardy? do you really think that free spending Labour are the answer, when they have been the problem for Thirteen years....some people never learn!

[Gingeletiss]

Agree with pretty much all of that.

 

Also, the way they're handling the housing benefit bill is scandalous. I think we can all agree that £400 a week is a staggering amount of money to be paying for rent. Instead of going after the underyling problem, namely, the fact that it costs so much to live here, they've decided to wash the poor out of London. Councils there are already block-booking B+B's in dismal seaside towns.

 

Ask yourself why?..............hell, ask the unions why?

[View From The Top]

if the coalition fails.......it will lead to a full Tory government one way or another

 

i really want to say YES PLEASE but I will get shouted at by people on the internet

 

I disagree. I believe it would result in a weak minority tory government. No way the tories would get a mandate after the cuts they've revealed, combined with the hike in tuition fees.

 

The Liberals, either way, are dead.

[Verbal]

Prospects for the coalition are excellent. I give them a year, tops.

[bridge too far]

Prospects for the coalition are excellent. I give them a year, tops.

 

More than I'd give Vince Cable TBH

[hypochondriac]

Dunno. We've already seen the transition from the politics of hope ( "we're cuddly Tories. we care about the environment" ) to the politics of fear ( "the country's f*cked. we're going to cut your monetary bolox off!" ). A lot of people who might have been hoodwinked this year may change their vote.

 

That said, this current Labour lot don't really seem to have a plan either - so you could well be right. As usual, the Southampton constituencies will be key.

 

I don't feel hoodwinked in the slightest.I expected a sh*t load of pain and cutbacks whoever was in charge and that is what we are getting.

[hypochondriac]

Well so far we've seen numerous jobs cut, knock on job losses in the private sector, tuition fees rise, cuts in the arts, cuts in the coastguard and maritime agency, talk of censorship of the internet and yet still allowing vodaphone not to pay their taxes.

 

God alone knows what they'd get away with if it was just the Tories (privatisation of the NHS anyone?) so lets pray that if there is an election it's a lib-lab coalition this time since a Tory majority scares the **** out of me.

 

Mind you with that in mind i don't really think there's a seriously electable party in the country at the moment which is worrying trend.

 

If you really think that 90 percent of that would not have happened had Labour been in charge, then you are deluded.

[hypochondriac]

I'm not affiliated with any political party. It does however annoy me that people portray every Tory as evil purely because 'they are tory' and suggest that EVERY decision they make for the country is some sort of evil plot to bring about the destruction of Britain. You can bet your life that if the majority of decisions taken by the coalition had been taken under a Labour government, then they would be afforded loads more slack and received nowhere near the amount of criticism purely because it isn't Conservative. People would do a lot better if they became less close minded. Hate policies not the party.

[Saintandy666]

Vince Cable

[CB Saint]

I disagree. I believe it would result in a weak minority tory government. No way the tories would get a mandate after the cuts they've revealed, combined with the hike in tuition fees.

 

The Liberals, either way, are dead.

 

Which is why we will probably bumble along with the lot we got. Both the tories and the libs know that it will be a disaster if they went to the polls again. Both have been out of power too long to risk that and lets be honest, to the average politician, irrespective of party, power it what it's all about.

[Thedelldays]

Vince Cable

 

yeah...self serving use of power...cozying up to business and backing the tuition fee thingy

 

yeah, can see how the die hard yellows will love him....

[Thedelldays]

I'm not affiliated with any political party. It does however annoy me that people portray every Tory as evil purely because 'they are tory' and suggest that EVERY decision they make for the country is some sort of evil plot to bring about the destruction of Britain. You can bet your life that if the majority of decisions taken by the coalition had been taken under a Labour government, then they would be afforded loads more slack and received nowhere near the amount of criticism purely because it isn't Conservative. People would do a lot better if they became less close minded. Hate policies not the party.

 

dont worry mate...England is pretty much a tory biased country...even the last labour lot had to disguise themselves as tory to get in....just a different shade of blue

[Saintandy666]

yeah...self serving use of power...cozying up to business and backing the tuition fee thingy

 

yeah, can see how the die hard yellows will love him....

 

Oh yes, we are angry about that and still are. However, these leaked comments will endear him to many Lib Dems.

[Thedelldays]

Oh yes, we are angry about that and still are. However, these leaked comments will endear him to many Lib Dems.

 

why..?

[bridge too far]

Oh yes, we are angry about that and still are. However, these leaked comments will endear him to many Lib Dems.

 

The conspiracy theorist part of me wondered if he knew those 'constituents' were reporters and that this would be 'leaked'

[pap]

Ask yourself why?..............hell, ask the unions why?

 

There are a lot of factors at play. Supply and demand, not helped by the right-to-buy scheme or the mass influx of economic migrants from less affluent parts of the EU. The massive availability of credit prior to the crash comes into play. Used to be that mortgage limits were set at three times the household income. People were self-certifying for hundreds of thousands of pounds with no proof whatsoever. Prices are often dictated by what the market will bear. With the massive amount of credit available during the worst excesses of lending, the market could bear a lot - more than it should have; as it turns out.

 

People need to stop thinking of property as a market. A home is something to live in, not something to speculate on. They are priced way too high for the average salary ( 27K ? ), and while there are causes for this, there are no valid reasons why we should continue to put up with it.

[Saintandy666]

why..?

 

It will be comforting to many to have confirmation someone is fighting our conner in the coalition. Also, Liberal Democrats hate Rupert Murdoch.

[Thedelldays]

It will be comforting to many to have confirmation someone is fighting our conner in the coalition. Also, Liberal Democrats hate Rupert Murdoch.

 

your corner in what..?

[Saintandy666]

your corner in what..?

 

Policy. I can see myself in the policy coming out of this government that a lot of it is watered down Tory policy and some parts are very Liberal Democrat.

[Thedelldays]

Policy. I can see myself in the policy coming out of this government that a lot of it is watered down Tory policy and some parts are very Liberal Democrat.

 

what has he done that has "fought your corner"....?

[Saintandy666]

what has he done that has "fought your corner"....?

 

If you have a look at many areas of government policy like the fairness premium, like the prisons policy, part of the policy on banks, AV referendum, the raising of the income tax band etc etc etc you see a big lib dem tint.

[aintforever]

If the coalition fails Labour would romp it at the next election IMO, even though they picked the wrong brother he is still a million miles more electable than Gordon Brown. Plus they will have got the Iraq War monkey of their back.

[Fuengirola Saint]

I'd be supportive of privatisation. We'd get a far better (cheaper) deal by opening health care up to market competition. Also I already have private health care insurance so why should I pay into the NHS?

 

So if you get knocked over or have an accident, we'll tell the NHS abulance to **** off cos you've got private health cover, yes?

[Thedelldays]

So if you get knocked over or have an accident, we'll tell the NHS abulance to **** off cos you've got private health cover, yes?

 

or...his private insurance will pay the costs..?

[Saintandy666]

If the coalition fails Labour would romp it at the next election IMO, even though they picked the wrong brother he is still a million miles more electable than Gordon Brown. Plus they will have got the Iraq War monkey of their back.

 

I think the last election shows that the conservatives at least at that point were not that popular. I still do not think they are that popular. They won the election on the back of a strong want for change and a large anti Gordon Brown sentiment.

[Thedelldays]

I think the last election shows that the conservatives at least at that point were not that popular. I still do not think they are that popular. They won the election on the back of a strong want for change and a large anti Gordon Brown sentiment.

 

they were alot more popular than any other party....so, the most popular single party...right..?

[Saintandy666]

they were alot more popular than any other party....so, the most popular single party...right..?

 

Yes, they were. 36.1% is hardly a romping endorsement though; neither was Labours 2005 general election 'win'.

[Thedelldays]

Yes, they were. 36.1% is hardly a romping endorsement though; neither was Labours 2005 general election 'win'.

 

you could argue that the libdems are in a false position...the little they got and they have people claiming they can bring the house down....bit too much power..no..?

[bridge too far]

or...his private insurance will pay the costs..?

 

Private health cover won't buy him A & E treatment. It only pays for routine stuff and eventually runs out anyway so that the NHS has to pick up the tab.

[Thedelldays]

Private health cover won't buy him A & E treatment. It only pays for routine stuff and eventually runs out anyway so that the NHS has to pick up the tab.

 

maybe that can change.....

[bridge too far]

maybe that can change.....

 

I doubt it. Mainly because emergency medicine is too expensive and there really isn't the medical expertise to deal with emergency medicine in the private sector.

[Thedelldays]

I doubt it. Mainly because emergency medicine is too expensive and there really isn't the medical expertise to deal with emergency medicine in the private sector.

 

no..in that emergency treatment is then billed...all things are possible

[Saintandy666]

you could argue that the libdems are in a false position...the little they got and they have people claiming they can bring the house down....bit too much power..no..?

 

Nope, not at all. The other option would be for the conservatives to have absolute power with that percentage vote. I think it is farcical that Labour had a comfortable majority with 35.2%. It's the tyranny of the plurality.

[Thedelldays]

Nope, not at all. The other option would be for the conservatives to have absolute power with that percentage vote. I think it is farcical that Labour had a comfortable majority with 35.2%. It's the tyranny of the plurality.

 

ah right..you dont like the idea of the tories being in office and say they are not that popular..yet when we talk about the liberals (also being in office) on quite a bit less votes...thats ok

 

gotcha

[scotty]

I'd be supportive of privatisation. We'd get a far better (cheaper) deal by opening health care up to market competition. Also I already have private health care insurance so why should I pay into the NHS?

 

Every time you think this way, just take a look at the map and see how many private hospitals are within spitting distance of NHS ones. The private healthcare sector in this country only exists because it can be bailed out by the NHS whenever anything goes tlts-up.

[buctootim]

Every time you think this way, just take a look at the map and see how many private hospitals are within spitting distance of NHS ones. The private healthcare sector in this country only exists because it can be bailed out by the NHS whenever anything goes tlts-up.

 

I would never have an operation in a private hospital. The emergency medical and surgical cover at night is often a local GP on call - no cardiac crash team, no backup apart from a 999 phone call saying '**** please send help'. If you have private health care go for a private bed in an NHS hospital.

[Saintandy666]

ah right..you dont like the idea of the tories being in office and say they are not that popular..yet when we talk about the liberals (also being in office) on quite a bit less votes...thats ok

 

gotcha

 

Not what I said. What I said was that the Tories being in office solely on their own (the same for labour) with only just over a third of the votes is ludicrous. That would give them absolute rule of the majority when the majority did not want them. The same would apply for the Liberal Democrats. Coalition is fairer, not perfect, but fairer.

[dune]

Every time you think this way, just take a look at the map and see how many private hospitals are within spitting distance of NHS ones. The private healthcare sector in this country only exists because it can be bailed out by the NHS whenever anything goes tlts-up.

 

It's the same doctors and surgeons, but the stay is just more pleasant. Instead of sharing a ward with people like Tim and eating mince ad tinned peas, i get a private room with satelite TV and an excellent menu.

[ericb]

If you really think that 90 percent of that would not have happened had Labour been in charge, then you are deluded.

 

of course delusion is a right wing way of saying that you disagree, i fully expect it to be followed up with "not living in the real world" amongst other banal insults.

 

Or......

 

you could look at the serious economic advice that the Tories (yup them) choose to ignore that said that cutting the public sector would damage the economy further and if anything deepen the recession.

 

Last point so won't be able to respond to any answer annoyingly.

 

Personally i have no doubts that there would have been large cuts to certain areas but i think it would have been with the aim of saving jobs since it's not only sensible Keynesian economics, but also allows for more money to be spent.

 

As for the fees rise, well we know from manifesto's that this was likely to happen, the important point was that it would not have been on such a large scale.

 

For the final point of the tax dodging of Vodaphone, i'd like to think any other party would not have had so many vested interests in letting the slide (don't forget that certain board members of Vodaphone invested in the Tory party).

 

Now the real last point as i see it is that these are (so far) the most palatable of the cuts, one's which can be largely passed off as cutting the deficit (even if tuition fess are privatisation of university by the back door). The question and fear for me is that these are only the start, and given their past histories i do not trust the conservatives for a minute in their want to sell off that which is ours to their mates so they can rake in a profit.

 

Oh and if you want proof of their cronyism then look no further than the person sitting on the head of the team responsible for allowing murdoch to buy BskyB in whole. A very sympathetic ear to Murdoch and one that's [to put it softly] sensitive to the Tory cause.

 

Mark my words things are getting a hell of a lot worse in the next year or two, i just hope that the british people see fit to not allow a few people to capitalise on this world economic problem by selling off what's left of the public sector to their mates. We already live in a highly unfair and divided country, the results of many of these policies could make this gap much, much bigger.

 

Mind you it could just be a simple case of NIMBYism on the part of Tory voters, something i have no doubt will change when their lives and jobs are directly affected by the policies of the government of the few.

[Verbal]

I would never have an operation in a private hospital. The emergency medical and surgical cover at night is often a local GP on call - no cardiac crash team, no backup apart from a 999 phone call saying '**** please send help'. If you have private health care go for a private bed in an NHS hospital.

 

I'd agree with that. British private hospitals have a poor reputation for incompetence, laziness and gouging their charges. The only people I've met who use them and actually boast about it are, quite frankly, either as thick as they come or have an infinite capacity for self-delusion....or both. Private facilities in NHS hospitals - as morally dubious as that might be - are far,far better.

[Johnny Bognor]

First this...

 

.....but i think it would have been with the aim of saving jobs

 

 

Then this....

 

For the final point of the tax dodging of Vodaphone, i'd like to think any other party would not have had so many vested interests in letting the slide

 

Surely taxing the **** out of Vodafone, won't do much to save redundancies to many Vodafone employees?

 

Are you for saving jobs or not?

 

I am a little confused.

 

Ah, wait a minute. You're up for saving public sector jobs whist the private sector can go whistle. The private sector lost 1m jobs during Brown's car crash of a premiership and now things don't look so good for the public sector, you want the private sector to suffer even more?

 

I thought the foundation stone of socialism was fairness. Doesn't sound very fair to me.

Edited 21 December, 2010 by Johnny Bognor

[Verbal]

First this...

 

 

 

 

Then this....

 

 

 

Surely taxing the **** out of Vodafone, won't do much to save redundancies to many Vodafone employees?

 

Are you for saving jobs or not?

 

I am a little confused.

 

Ah, wait a minute. You're up for saving public sector jobs whist the private sector can go whistle. The private sector lost 1m jobs during Brown's car crash of a premiership and now things don't look so good for the public sector, you want the private sector to suffer even more?

 

I thought the foundation stone of socialism was fairness. Doesn't sound very fair to me.

 

Yes, I agree, you are quite confused. 'Taxing the ****' out of vodafone means their merely paying approximately the same proportion of taxes as other companies, including other telecoms, that don't resort to such dubious methods to avoid their responsibilities. And the 'private v public' division you push with such enthusiasm places your argument in about 1955. Today, some very powerful, very large companies make their fortunes from taxation - notably PFI companies, extraordinarily corrupt defence contractors like BAE Systems, drugs companies supplying the NHS at exorbitant cost, etc etc.

 

And no, the foundation stone of socialism was never 'fairness' - what a piece of **** nonsense that has always been, and continues to be as it's used with tiresome regularity by Cleggeron. A central pillar of socialism and social democracy has been social justice - a concept whose meaning has been contested certainly, but at least makes sense in its various iterations by political/legal philosophers like John Rawls, Ronald Dworkin, etc.

[doddisalegend]

Does it matter? I've gone from being very excited by politics when I was first able to vote to becoming a political version of an atheist these days. My view on politicans is they promise you the world then kick you in the dangly bits first chance they get. Doesn't seem to matter who is in charge they'll end up acting like ****s. This goverment will end sooner or later and then the next one will look for ways to **** me over. Only two politicians have ever had my respect and both becuase I felt they stuck to their principles come what may Maggie Thacter and Tony Benn as for the rest never had any time for them.