doddisalegend Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 How can anyone deny climate change? it has been going on since the planet was formed, the only questions are Is man speeding it up? What will the effects be? the answer to the first would seem to be yes. The answer to the second seems less certain, there are a few therioes out there. I've seen one that said the UK would become like north Africa and another one that said we would enter an ice age. As were are 54,000 years overdue a large asteroid hit more powerful than the worlds entire nuclear weapons arsenal, that could cause upto 90% of the earths spieces to be made extinct we might have other things to worry about sometime soon any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Go outside now. Measure the temperature and report back with your findings. Do the same again in 6 months and report back again. And then tell me you don't believe in global warming. Conclusive proof my friends. But what if you live in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Dune, you really, really don't get it do you. I must confess that I do not have a degree in climate science, or anything close to that, but the long and short of the whole argument can be summed up with two basic facts.... Fact 1. Air with an increased CO2 content retains more heat. This is scientifically observable and cannot be disproved. Fact 2. Human activity is pumping MILLIONS OF TONNES of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. Even someone as narrow-minded as you, who just loves to take every opportunity he can to sidetrack any important issue into a rant about socialism, cannot in all conscience try and claim that carrying on as we are is anything other than a very bad idea. Something tells me that you are going to try though. Not if we are overdue an ice age. We can survive global warming but we cannot survive an ice age (and by 'we' I mean us in Britain, not those in Uganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Not if we are overdue an ice age. We can survive global warming but we cannot survive an ice age (and by 'we' I mean us in Britain, not those in Uganda. But we're not overdue an ice age. we're still technically coming out of the last one. What is overdue, however, is an eruption of the super-volcano at Yellowstone in the US, the results of which could be catastrophic for the entire planet... http://www.nasca.org.uk/supervolcano/supervolcano.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 But we're not overdue an ice age. we're still technically coming out of the last one. What is overdue, however, is an eruption of the super-volcano at Yellowstone in the US, the results of which could be catastrophic for the entire planet... http://www.nasca.org.uk/supervolcano/supervolcano.html I was always told that we are in a short inter-glacial warm period. Volcanoes can be just as nasty, I'll grant you. Even though we may not be affected climatically by Yellowstone, the economic fallout would be very nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Well, can someone explain why, seeing as we have "global warming", it's snowing here and everything is covered? Global warming my a*se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Well, can someone explain why, seeing as we have "global warming", it's snowing here and everything is covered? Global warming my a*se. It's usually cold in winter. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 18 December, 2010 Share Posted 18 December, 2010 Well, can someone explain why, seeing as we have "global warming", it's snowing here and everything is covered? Global warming my a*se. Global warming only applies to some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 19 December, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 December, 2010 I would have more respect for the global warming merchants of doom if they forecasted more accurately. It is simply not good enough to predict one thing and then when the opposite happens say well this is because of this and that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 (edited) I would have more respect for the global warming merchants of doom if they forecasted more accurately. It is simply not good enough to predict one thing and then when the opposite happens say well this is because of this and that. They can't even predict seasons. Last winter was supposed to be mild, last summer was supposed to be a barbeque summer, this winter was supposed to be mild. All they are doing is predicting the scenario they want to happen (wishful thinking) because they are desperate to keep this global warming gravy train going. They must be so gutted that the tide has turned and the masses are becoming more questioning of their sooth saying. Edited 19 December, 2010 by dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 I remember a Channel 4 documentary about global warming at least 10 years ago that predicted that if global warming followed the expected path the result would be colder winters for northern europe. Something to do the altered path of the north atlantic drift caused by warmer sees. (the north atlantic drift being responsible for the warm air currents that keep our climate temperate. What i find amusing about the whole climate debate is that nearly all the people genuinely qualified to have an informed opinion say that global warming is man made. It's just the right wing press with their political motivation, and the petro-chemical industry paying flake scientists, that love to run any anti-warming story they can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 These extreme weather conditions,coupled with volcanic,seismic, and other natural disturbances are the precursor to the end of the world in 2012 as told in prophecy by the Mayan indians. The end is nigh. You have been warned,i suggest, that like me, you make preperations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 I remember a Channel 4 documentary about global warming at least 10 years ago that predicted that if global warming followed the expected path the result would be colder winters for northern europe. Something to do the altered path of the north atlantic drift caused by warmer sees. (the north atlantic drift being responsible for the warm air currents that keep our climate temperate. What i find amusing about the whole climate debate is that nearly all the people genuinely qualified to have an informed opinion say that global warming is man made. It's just the right wing press with their political motivation, and the petro-chemical industry paying flake scientists, that love to run any anti-warming story they can find. I believe in climate change - it's always happened, but I do not believe man has affected it because the CO2 emmisions are neglibable in the scheme of atmospheric gasses. It does not concern me. In fact global warming is a good thing because if we had global cooling that would be far far worse. The real issue wth the Man Made Global Warming lie is food prices. Production of bio fuels has had the effect of raising food prices and has meant that poor people have died. Are left wingers proud of this achievement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 I believe in climate change - it's always happened, but I do not believe man has affected it because the CO2 emmisions are neglibable in the scheme of atmospheric gasses. It does not concern me. In fact global warming is a good thing because if we had global cooling that would be far far worse. The real issue wth the Man Made Global Warming lie is food prices. Production of bio fuels has had the effect of raising food prices and has meant that poor people have died. Are left wingers proud of this achievement? Dear Mr 'I don't know the difference between weather and climate': please quote your sources in the scientific literature. You perfectly sum up the 'sceptic' position: it's all about a lack of imagination. And as for 'left wingers' being 'proud' of bio-fuels killing people - the problem can easily be solved either by an equitable redistribution of land, or dropping the bio-fuels mania, which was never anything much more than a way for large landowners in south america in particular to leverage ever larger profits. Advocates of bio fuels have mostly been people like Tom Friedman - just about the most capitalistic of NYT's writers. So I take it I can join you up to the socialist revolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 How come no one talks about the supposed holes in the Ozone layer anymore? ten years ago wasn't there supposed to be one the size of Australia knocking about somewhere? Obviously people have wised up to that nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 How come no one talks about the supposed holes in the Ozone layer anymore? ten years ago wasn't there supposed to be one the size of Australia knocking about somewhere? Obviously people have wised up to that nonsense. On the contrary. The hole is still there but smaller Why? Because governments took action on MAN-MADE CFCs, which caused it. An effective precedent for what should be happening now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 How come no one talks about the supposed holes in the Ozone layer anymore? ten years ago wasn't there supposed to be one the size of Australia knocking about somewhere? Obviously people have wised up to that nonsense. Acid rain appears to have stopped too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Acid rain appears to have stopped too! are the ice caps still melting..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 19 December, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 December, 2010 How come no one talks about the supposed holes in the Ozone layer anymore? ten years ago wasn't there supposed to be one the size of Australia knocking about somewhere? Obviously people have wised up to that nonsense. Yes we stopped using deoderant for that one! I am excitedly looking forward to the explanations on this one? Was it the same scientists that said we were about to go into another ice age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 are the ice caps still melting..? Not outside my house no, are yours?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 19 December, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 December, 2010 are the ice caps still melting..? http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100906085152.htm Not as quick as the merchants of doom suggested. Please discredit this if you would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 are the ice caps still melting..? We've all heard about the arctic Ice caps retreating, but we haven't heard much about the antarctic Ice caps being at record levels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 on the contrary. The hole is still there but smaller why? Because governments took action on man-made cfcs, which caused it. An effective precedent for what should be happening now. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 We've all heard about the arctic Ice caps retreating, but we haven't heard much about the antarctic Ice caps being at record levels... Weather and climate again, I'm afraid my challenged friend. Sea ice grows and retreats with the seasons. sometimes there's a lot, sometimes not. It's the ice on land you need to look at. and there it's retreating like crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 are the ice caps still melting..? Yes, but dune thinks the ice caps and sea ice are the same thing - so the answer from him will be no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Weather and climate again, I'm afraid my challenged friend. Sea ice grows and retreats with the seasons. sometimes there's a lot, sometimes not. It's the ice on land you need to look at. and there it's retreating like crazy. I see. So one type of ice melting is because of global warming, but the other ice that is increasing is just a bloody inconvenient natural phenomenon. I'm aware that sea ice ebbs and flows with seasons, but it has been increasing in antartica. Now i'm no peace man eco warrior, so please excuse my ignornace, but I would have thought that an increase in sea ice would correlate with lower sea temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 I see. So one type of ice melting is because of global warming, but the other ice that is increasing is just a bloody inconvenient natural phenomenon. I'm aware that sea ice ebbs and flows with seasons, but it has been increasing in antartica. Now i'm no peace man eco warrior, so please excuse my ignornace, but I would have thought that an increase in sea ice would correlate with lower sea temperatures. Sea ice has more to do with air than sea temperatures. You can dive in clear water under most sea ice in the antarctic. But these are seasonal changes. But if you want to find out more, talk to one of the'peacemen eco warriors' at the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge. Unfortunately they re all seasoned scientists, so are no doubt part of the conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Sea ice has more to do with air than sea temperatures. So air temperature has nothing to do with climate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 are the ice caps still melting..? yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Weather isn't climate. If you look at the world as a whole the world is warming. The greenhouse effect and global warming is a fact... we'd all be dead with out it. The area where there is dispute is whether humans are the cause of current rises in temperature. Anyone who denies the world is currently warming is a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Global warming? It's bloody freezing out there! What a load of nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 They can't even predict seasons. Last winter was supposed to be mild, last summer was supposed to be a barbeque summer, this winter was supposed to be mild. For crying out loud dune. Do you ever actually read these threads before posting such drivel? How many times do you need to be told that CLIMATE AND WEATHER ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! They must be so gutted that the tide has turned and the masses are becoming more questioning of their sooth saying. You know what, I bet they're not dune. I bet that the world's leading climatologists, who actually study the data and have a lifetime of experience to draw on, could not give the slightest toss about what some snidey, ignorant cretins like you post on internet messageboards. I think I know who I would rather listen to thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 These extreme weather conditions,coupled with volcanic,seismic, and other natural disturbances are the precursor to the end of the world in 2012 as told in prophecy by the Mayan indians. The end is nigh.You have been warned,i suggest, that like me, you make preperations. Thats going to put a bit of a dent in our PL in five years plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 These extreme weather conditions,coupled with volcanic,seismic, and other natural disturbances are the precursor to the end of the world in 2012 as told in prophecy by the Mayan indians. The end is nigh. You have been warned,i suggest, that like me, you make preperations. Thats going to put a bit of a dent in our PL in five years plan. You bet, it's only just under 2 hours away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 you bet, it's only just under 2 hours away. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 19 December, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Weather isn't climate. If you look at the world as a whole the world is warming. The greenhouse effect and global warming is a fact... we'd all be dead with out it. The area where there is dispute is whether humans are the cause of current rises in temperature. Anyone who denies the world is currently warming is a moron. Possibly a moron but it is with the same fanatical fervour we were told about the ozone layer - and that we were about to enter a new ice age thirty odd years ago. If we want to be green we should sort out population and fish stocks. Green energy is also great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Possibly a moron but it is with the same fanatical fervour we were told about the ozone layer - and that we were about to enter a new ice age thirty odd years ago. If we want to be green we should sort out population and fish stocks. Green energy is also great. The ozone layer was to do with different things like the use of CFC's which are now banned... so the ozone layer is repairing. Ozone layer depletion has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with global warming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 The ozone layer was to do with different things like the use of CFC's which are now banned... so the ozone layer is repairing. Ozone layer depletion has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with global warming. Apparently they are linked global warming is actually depleting the ozone layer according to this site http://www.ess-home.com/news/global-warming/ozone-depletion.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 The ozone layer was to do with different things like the use of CFC's which are now banned... so the ozone layer is repairing. Ozone layer depletion has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with global warming. you sure...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 you sure...? He's correct in so much that it different issue regarding climate change. CFC's destroy the ozone layer, even the old USSR. communist China and the USA agreed on that and that is why the decision to ban the use of CFCs was world wide was undertaken, without much argument it should be said. It was simple chemistry hence the agreement. It was also agreed that it would take the ozone layer decades to repair itself, as is happening, again, this is down to simple chemistry. The current climate change debate is different and like many I believe in nature but also accept that man has an impact and I find it odd that folk think that we don't. I also find it odd that folk don't want to develop energy security as importing our oil, gas and coal is not a good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 So air temperature has nothing to do with climate? Climate is a highly complex system of air masses with regional characteristics (Polar, Equatorial, etc) Air temperature is one of those 'look out the window' indicators of nothing in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 you sure...? Yes, I am VERY sure of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 He's correct in so much that it different issue regarding climate change. CFC's destroy the ozone layer, even the old USSR. communist China and the USA agreed on that and that is why the decision to ban the use of CFCs was world wide was undertaken, without much argument it should be said. It was simple chemistry hence the agreement. It was also agreed that it would take the ozone layer decades to repair itself, as is happening, again, this is down to simple chemistry. The current climate change debate is different and like many I believe in nature but also accept that man has an impact and I find it odd that folk think that we don't. I also find it odd that folk don't want to develop energy security as importing our oil, gas and coal is not a good idea! Indeed, climate change could involve the ozone layer. That's another thing that annoys me; people that think climate change is just global warming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Yes, I am VERY sure of this. ah ok.. personally, I could not give a toss about climate change..reason being..in 10 years time it will be something else and the term "climate change" will be long forgotton....plus various leaders in the industry cant even agree... just enjoy life and what will be will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 ah ok.. personally, I could not give a toss about climate change..reason being..in 10 years time it will be something else and the term "climate change" will be long forgotton....plus various leaders in the industry cant even agree... just enjoy life and what will be will be Leaders of industry are atmospheric chemists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Leaders of industry are atmospheric chemists? who ever...you only have to listen to politicians, read various online articles by so called experts..and the fact 10 years ago..it was all about "warming" now, its "change" and in 10 years it will be new catchy word.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 ah ok.. personally, I could not give a toss about climate change..reason being..in 10 years time it will be something else and the term "climate change" will be long forgotton....plus various leaders in the industry cant even agree... just enjoy life and what will be will be I think I agree with you that we will most likely do little about this, at least not until it is too late. However, this does not change the facts. I disagree that it will be forgotten in 10 years time as the effects of it will become much more visible. Climate change is extremely serious. It's sad that it has become second priority to the economic system in the last couple of years. There was a great article in the independent the other day about this and how once the earth ****s up you can't just bail it out. On the issue of global warming, ironically, it could lead to the UK becoming a cooler country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 who ever...you only have to listen to politicians, read various online articles by so called experts..and the fact 10 years ago..it was all about "warming" now, its "change" and in 10 years it will be new catchy word.. Nonsense. It's always been known as global warming, and as a popular label, there's nothing wrong with it. In scientific literature, it's commonly referred to as climate change. There is no significant disagreement among mainstream scientists publishing in respected journals. The debates tend to centre of modelling improvements, etc., but the basic chemistry is well understood and widely accepted. Unless, of course, the world's scientific community are wrong in their understanding of atmospheric chemistry and you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 19 December, 2010 Author Share Posted 19 December, 2010 The ozone layer was to do with different things like the use of CFC's which are now banned... so the ozone layer is repairing. Ozone layer depletion has NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING to do with global warming. I think that the ozone layer just repaired itself without intervention. Try and think out of the box. Population is the real problem. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 December, 2010 Share Posted 19 December, 2010 Nonsense. It's always been known as global warming, and as a popular label, there's nothing wrong with it. In scientific literature, it's commonly referred to as climate change. There is no significant disagreement among mainstream scientists publishing in respected journals. The debates tend to centre of modelling improvements, etc., but the basic chemistry is well understood and widely accepted. Unless, of course, the world's scientific community are wrong in their understanding of atmospheric chemistry and you are right. either way..I dont care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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