Benefit Fraud v Tax Evasion

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Official HMRC and DWP figures put the exact figures of bebefit frad to be £1.5b per annum, with a further £4b (sic) lost through errors.

 

Similar figures show that the country is losing at least £15b a year in illegal tax evasion.

 

Why is the press so vitriolic about benefit fraudsters (and no I think they are a disgrace as well and have no time or sympathy for them) yet so little is said about the Black Economy? In fact, it seems to be held in some sort of high regard by the public.

 

Try going down the pub, say, on a Friday night and see what reaction you get from a claim that you are getting £200 a week from the dole while you are working.

 

then try again and say that you are getting paid £800 cash in hand for another job without declaring it and costing the taxpayer the same as the fraudster.

 

What do you think the outcome would be?

[Lighthouse]

Having read the title and then f**k all of what you've written after, I'd say benefit fraud is worse. Tax evaders aren't contributing, but then they aren't really costing anything either. If they were dead, it would make feck all difference to the ecconomy.

[CB Saint]

Both are illegal and therefore equally wrong. However, in a cash in hand transaction, both parties benefit whereas only one party benefits in the benefit fraud case, but this is really splitting hairs.

[angelman]

I think that this tax evasion also includes paying people "cash" so that they don't charge you VAT. I have never done that but believe that it is quite common!!!

[Hatch]

I'm sure the tax evaders are paying there dues some how or other.

They are just not giving as much as they can.

 

Benefit cheats are just getting something for nothing.

[Verbal]

Having read the title and then f**k all of what you've written after, I'd say benefit fraud is worse. Tax evaders aren't contributing, but then they aren't really costing anything either. If they were dead, it would make feck all difference to the ecconomy.

 

Tax evasion costs the exchequer ten times the amount benefit fraud does, and it's not worse?!

[Wade Garrett]

I'd put tax avoiders like Phillip Green in the same loathsome bracket of scum who defraud the benefit system.

 

'But Phillip Green emlploys lots of people'. Doesn't change the fact that he should pay his fair share.

[norwaysaint]

It's all pretty slimy. Benefit cheats generally aren't that well off and are dishonest people trying to get extra money. Tax cheats generally already have enough money and are screwing the rest of us, who either make up the difference in various ways, or have to live with under-funded services, or live in a country in financial trouble, just because they are greedy enough to try to snatch more when they already have enough.

 

People thought it was despicable that Pompey tried to cheat the tax-man, I didn't read any comments on here about how it wasn't so bad because Pompey create plenty of jobs or how as a business they stimulate the economy.

[Lighthouse]

Tax evasion costs the exchequer ten times the amount benefit fraud does, and it's not worse?!

 

In terms of pounds and pennys hit has a bigger impact yes. I don't condone either, but tax evasion isn't really costing anything. Tax evaders just aren't giving as much as they should do.

[dune]

I'm sure the tax evaders are paying there dues some how or other.

They are just not giving as much as they can.

 

Benefit cheats are just getting something for nothing.

 

This.

 

Why should my taxes go to fat lazy Socialists so they can live a life of riley?

 

The Tory councillor that suggested they're packed off to pick fruit was spot on.

[bridge too far]

In terms of pounds and pennys hit has a bigger impact yes. I don't condone either, but tax evasion isn't really costing anything. Tax evaders just aren't giving as much as they should do.

 

It's costing you and me as we have to pay more tax for the services 'we' need. If they paid what they should, then we could theoretically pay less or the standards of service could improve.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I'd put tax avoiders like Phillip Green in the same loathsome bracket of scum who defraud the benefit system.

 

'But Phillip Green emlploys lots of people'. Doesn't change the fact that he should pay his fair share.

 

Surely it's down to the make up of his companies though??

[buctootim]

Surely it's down to the make up of his companies though??

 

Yes, but it dosnt make it right. Lots of countries around the world, including the UK offer tax havens to foreigners. Essentially they only have to pay tax on the income earned in the country where they live, not on global income. Phillip Green earns almost nothing inside Monaco. Globally you now have multi millionaires and billionaires living in a different county to that of their origin in order to avoid tax. Thats why Monaco and Switzerland are full of the British rich whilst London is full of Swedish and Russian billionaires. Its also why companies such as Hewlett Packard, Gateway and Dell have their European HQs in Ireland and HSBC and Barclays are threatening to relocate to Hong Kong - to avoid corporation tax.

[dune]

I've got an idea. Let's make Britain utterly uncompetitve to keep the Socialists happy. If the rich are poorer and poor are poorer it's fine so long as the gap is smaller.

 

Give me strenth.

 

Socialists really are planks.

[badgerx16]

Most benefit fraud is committed by landlords - in the main it is to them that the money is paid.

[buctootim]

I've got an idea. Let's make Britain utterly uncompetitve to keep the Socialists happy. If the rich are poorer and poor are poorer it's fine so long as the gap is smaller.

 

Give me strenth.

 

Socialists really are planks.

 

I know professionally a Swedish billionaire living in the UK who paid £32,000 income tax last year. You tell me if that is right or not.

[Lighthouse]

It's costing you and me as we have to pay more tax for the services 'we' need. If they paid what they should, then we could theoretically pay less or the standards of service could improve.

 

Don't forget most benefit fraudsters are tax avoiders too. If you're claiming benefits it's a fair bet you're not paying any income tax.

[solentstars]

I'd put tax avoiders like Phillip Green in the same loathsome bracket of scum who defraud the benefit system.

 

'But Phillip Green emlploys lots of people'. Doesn't change the fact that he should pay his fair share.

 

agree and if people like him payed their taxs we would not have a massive debt with the billions they steal from the country.and he would stil be well of.

[Gemmel]

I know professionally a Swedish billionaire living in the UK who paid £32,000 income tax last year. You tell me if that is right or not.

 

If he declared evrything and operated within the tax laws then yes of course it is right.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Yes, but it dosnt make it right. Lots of countries around the world, including the UK offer tax havens to foreigners. Essentially they only have to pay tax on the income earned in the country where they live, not on global income. Phillip Green earns almost nothing inside Monaco. Globally you now have multi millionaires and billionaires living in a different county to that of their origin in order to avoid tax. Thats why Monaco and Switzerland are full of the British rich whilst London is full of Swedish and Russian billionaires. Its also why companies such as Hewlett Packard, Gateway and Dell have their European HQs in Ireland and HSBC and Barclays are threatening to relocate to Hong Kong - to avoid corporation tax.

 

Oh yeah, I get that. The reason I am saying this is that I think the Arcadia Group is owned by his wife...

[solentstars]

It's all pretty slimy. Benefit cheats generally aren't that well off and are dishonest people trying to get extra money. Tax cheats generally already have enough money and are screwing the rest of us, who either make up the difference in various ways, or have to live with under-funded services, or live in a country in financial trouble, just because they are greedy enough to try to snatch more when they already have enough.

 

People thought it was despicable that Pompey tried to cheat the tax-man, I didn't read any comments on here about how it wasn't so bad because Pompey create plenty of jobs or how as a business they stimulate the economy.

agreed

[solentstars]

Oh yeah, I get that. The reason I am saying this is that I think the Arcadia Group is owned by his wife...

no its a tax avoidance method and he put it in his wifes name.

tax avoidence cost this country billions.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

no its a tax avoidance method and he put it in his wifes name.

tax avoidence cost this country billions.

 

But what difference would it make to him? He doesn't pay tax anyway you're all saying, so it wouldn't matter if it was in his name or not, being a nondom and all...

[solentstars]

I've got an idea. Let's make Britain utterly uncompetitve to keep the Socialists happy. If the rich are poorer and poor are poorer it's fine so long as the gap is smaller.

 

Give me strenth.

 

Socialists really are planks.

oh dear brain of Briton :lol:calling other people planks:toppa:

[buctootim]

But what difference would it make to him? He doesn't pay tax anyway you're all saying, so it wouldn't matter if it was in his name or not, being a nondom and all...

 

It wouldnt be quite so bad if Green was only taking the **** once, ie by sitting back in Monaco and earning a fortune whilst enjoying his tax free non dom status. What makes it worse imo is that he actively runs his companies from London, essentially claiming 'Im just the hired help, it all belongs to my wife who lives in Monaco'. Would be interesting to see a divorce case between them - I'd bet my house that all of a sudden hidden documents would emerge that showed actually he does own it all after all.

Edited 15 December, 2010 by buctootim

[solentstars]

But what difference would it make to him? He doesn't pay tax anyway you're all saying, so it wouldn't matter if it was in his name or not, being a nondom and all...

 

if it was in his name he would be paying his fair share to the taxman,hence being in put his wifes name,anyway its not just him avoiding taxs which cost the country billions.

[CB Fry]

This.

 

Why should my taxes go to fat lazy Socialists so they can live a life of riley?

 

The Tory councillor that suggested they're packed off to pick fruit was spot on.

 

 

So just to confirm, anyone on benefit is a "socialist" now?

 

Funny that, because at its core "socialism" as understood in the UK (lets call it the Labour movement) has its foundations in the striving for full employment, whereas Thatcherite "capitalism" understands that a reasonable percentage of unemployment is a neccessary evil in a market economy. Ask Keith Joseph.

 

It was Thatcherism that created the modern welfare state. New Labour may have funded it and exacerbated it, but Thatcher started it.

 

So on your logic benefit claimants are dyed in the wool Thatcherites as much as they are socialists.

 

And most benefit claimants are thick as pi gsh it so imagine would agree with you on a lot of things. You'll all have a lot in common.

Edited 15 December, 2010 by CB Fry

[norwaysaint]

It seems a bit mad to complain about the financial state of the country, or about crime being worse because of less funding for police officers on the street, or cuts in the armed forces, education etc, then condone the greedy individuals who should have been contributing towards this to the tune of 15 billion, but sneakily managed to find a way to keep their contribution.

I know a few people who earn plenty of money, but when you check their tax details on-line, officially have zero income. They are all odious ******s.

[solentstars]

So just to confirm, anyone on benefit is a "socialist" now?

 

Funny that, because at its core "socialism" as understood in the UK (lets call it the Labour movement) has its foundations in full employment, whereas Thatcherite "capitalism" understands that a reasonable percentage of unemployment is a neccessary evil in a market economy.

 

It was Thatcherism that created the modern welfare state. New Labour may have funded it, but Thatcher started it.

 

So on your logic benefit claimants are dyed in the wool Thatcherites as much as they are socialists.

 

And most benefit claimants are thick as pi gsh it so imagine would agree with you on a lot of things. You'll all have a lot in common.

 

i think stanley is the arthur scargill of this forum,a bit dim and a lover of victorian fantasy world which has gone with kids up chimney attitude

[solentstars]

It seems a bit mad to complain about the financial state of the country, or about crime being worse because of less funding for police officers on the street, or cuts in the armed forces, education etc, then condone the greedy individuals who should have been contributing towards this to the tune of 15 billion, but sneakily managed to find a way to keep their contribution.

I know a few people who earn plenty of money, but when you check their tax details on-line, officially have zero income. They are all odious ******s.

 

i agree and the likes of you and me have to make pay extra taxs so these s hits do not pay their fair share to society.

[dune]

i agree and the likes of you and me have to make pay extra taxs so these s hits do not pay their fair share to society.

 

And having the Socialists in charge for 13 years had nothing at all to do with the country being up to its eyeballs in debt. Thankfully under a Conservative government we are seeing the focus primarily on cuts rather than tax rises, but if your Labour lot had got back in they'd have carried on taxing working people to the hilt to give it to bone idle layabouts.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

It wouldnt be quite so bad if Green was only taking the **** once, ie by sitting back in Monaco and earning a fortune whilst enjoying his tax free non dom status. What makes it worse imo is that he actively runs his companies from London, essentially claiming 'Im just the hired help, it all belongs to my wife who lives in Monaco'. Would be interesting to see a divorce case between them - I'd bet my house that all of a sudden hidden documents would emerge that showed actually he does own it all after all.

 

He's in one or two days a week. Ian Grabiner is fully hands on in running the actual company.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

if it was in his name he would be paying his fair share to the taxman,hence being in put his wifes name,anyway its not just him avoiding taxs which cost the country billions.

 

But why would he be, I thought the point was he was a nondom? What advantage, if he is a nondom, would it be to have the Arcadia Group listed under his wifes name?

[solentstars]

And having the Socialists in charge for 13 years had nothing at all to do with the country being up to its eyeballs in debt. Thankfully under a Conservative government we are seeing the focus primarily on cuts rather than tax rises, but if your Labour lot had got back in they'd have carried on taxing working people to the hilt to give it to bone idle layabouts.

 

i,m a independent voter unlike your marxist socialist views and find the last new labour consertive government no different from the failed thatcher torys of the 80,s,thank god we have a liberal government led by cameron.

[scotty]

And having the Socialists in charge for 13 years had nothing at all to do with the country being up to its eyeballs in debt. Thankfully under a Conservative government we are seeing the focus primarily on cuts rather than tax rises, but if your Labour lot had got back in they'd have carried on taxing working people to the hilt to give it to bone idle layabouts.

 

Socialists??!!! Lmfao, where were they then when blair and co were out-thatchering thatcher

[Jonnyboy]

It seems a bit mad to complain about the financial state of the country, or about crime being worse because of less funding for police officers on the street, or cuts in the armed forces, education etc, then condone the greedy individuals who should have been contributing towards this to the tune of 15 billion, but sneakily managed to find a way to keep their contribution.

I know a few people who earn plenty of money, but when you check their tax details on-line, officially have zero income. They are all odious ******s.

 

Cant you send in an anonymous tip off to the tax man?

[solentstars]

Socialists??!!! Lmfao, where were they then when blair and co were out-thatchering thatcher

 

he does not get it hes a bit thick.

[Verbal]

he does not get it hes a bit thick.

 

Define 'a bit'.

[solentstars]

Define 'a bit'.

 

ok very thick:lol:loves drag queens and still a virgin at 85

[Jones91]

Scrap ALL benefits - they just invite more spongers to this country.

 

There is plenty of low paid jobs out there, but there is no incentive as you get paid more for sitting on your arse at home/pub.

 

And all the 'disabled' people can work from home.

[Wade Garrett]

This.

 

Why should my taxes go to fat lazy Socialists so they can live a life of riley?

 

The Tory councillor that suggested they're packed off to pick fruit was spot on.

 

Was he? If Thatcher hadn't destroyed the coal and steel industries (out of spite), they would all still be working.

 

Another thing that your wet dream got wrong.

[dune]

Was he? If Thatcher hadn't destroyed the coal and steel industries (out of spite), they would all still be working.

 

Another thing that your wet dream got wrong.

 

She didn't destroy them, competition destroyed them. Eastern Europeans mined coal for peanuts wages and we couldn't compete. But look on the bright side - we are still sitting on a mountain of coal so it's there for the future - unlike our bullion reserves that that idiot Brown sold off at rock bottom prices.

[Wade Garrett]

She didn't destroy them, competition destroyed them. Eastern Europeans mined coal for peanuts wages and we couldn't compete. But look on the bright side - we are still sitting on a mountain of coal so it's there for the future - unlike our bullion reserves that that idiot Brown sold off at rock bottom prices.

 

You really are a boring c*nt.

[GenevaSaint]

She didn't destroy them, competition destroyed them. Eastern Europeans mined coal for peanuts wages and we couldn't compete. But look on the bright side - we are still sitting on a mountain of coal so it's there for the future - unlike our bullion reserves that that idiot Brown sold off at rock bottom prices.

 

We're never going to competitive enough to mine though are we; plenty of other countries willing to do the job for less. Same situation for large scale manufacturing and shipbuilding. All of the recent cruise ships are built in France, Italy, Finland because they do it cheaper. If it wasn't for the MOD the BAE yards in the UK would all shut, they're not competitive compared to other countries.

[dune]

You really are a boring c*nt.

 

You just don't like it when I show that Wades World isn't the Real World.

[GenevaSaint]

while we're at it, if you do a job for cash you're as good as a benefit fraudster......

[GenevaSaint]

You just don't like it when I show that Wades World isn't the Real World.

 

No, you really are a ****.

[Wade Garrett]

We're never going to competitive enough to mine though are we; plenty of other countries willing to do the job for less. Same situation for large scale manufacturing and shipbuilding. All of the recent cruise ships are built in France, Italy, Finland because they do it cheaper. If it wasn't for the MOD the BAE yards in the UK would all shut, they're not competitive compared to other countries.

 

Surely it would be cheaper to mine our own coal rather than be held over a barrel by our foreign suppliers?

 

The shipyard contracts were lost to foreign competition because of the subsidies they received from their governments. We chose not to, and consigned ourselves instead to paying it out and more anyway in Unemplyoment Benefit.

[dune]

No, you really are a ****.

 

I'm a **** because I speak the truth and people like you and Wade don't like it.

[Wade Garrett]

You just don't like it when I show that Wades World isn't the Real World.

 

What the f*ck would you know about the real world?