Greedy Stupid Unions (Main Board & Lounge all in one)

[Wade Garrett]

The management of LUL decided, unilaterally, that Boxing Day would be paid as a normal day, against all agreements. The tube drivers are, naturally, very angry. Why should they get paid standard rate for working at a time that they should be at home with their families. The rail network is closed on Boxing Day, so why not the tube?

 

Oh yes, I know. Because the retail sector want to be able to sell as much as they can on the first day of the sales, so they need customers, and f*** Johnny Worker, he can put up or shut up.

 

DSM just making stuff up, they were never told that they would get bank holidays at a premium, they signed up for a flat rate on enhanced salaries.....negociated by guess who..... Oh yes the union..... but they dont like it now, they want some more.

 

Nothing illegal DSM is just lying.

 

Tube bosses maintain that bank holiday working is covered by a long-standing existing agreement. Drivers get enhanced pay - up to £45,000 a year - but this includes flat-rate working including bank holidays without extra.

Aslef maintains that the network has become so much busier and train services far more frequent that the original agreement must be renegotiated.

Mr Grant said: "There is a huge difference in the work we do now than years back when this agreement was reached.

 

Two very different posts. My attitude towards this depends on who is right.

 

I believe you should always honour your contractural obligations. If you want to change them, then get round the negotiating table.

 

We had to make concessions to our management to end Boxing Day working. It's all about give and take.

[Gemmel]

Two very different posts My attitude towards this depends on who is right.

 

Excellent and I am.

 

The bit that you have quoted is direct from the union rep at Aslef

 

Mr Grant said: "There is a huge difference in the work we do now than years back when this agreement was reached.

This is the same agreement that Aslef negociated....... but now its not good enough, in the middle of the worst economic downturn..... its not good enough, so instead of being paid 165 pounds a day they are demanding 500 pounds or they are going out on strike. Fook me even the most hardened pro unionsists, must see that is wrong.

[stevegrant]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression you couldn't have a bank holiday on a Sunday?

[Wade Garrett]

Excellent and I am.

 

The bit that you have quoted is direct from the union rep at Aslef

 

Mr Grant said: "There is a huge difference in the work we do now than years back when this agreement was reached.

This is the same agreement that Aslef negociated....... but now its not good enough, in the middle of the worst economic downturn..... its not good enough, so instead of being paid 165 pounds a day they are demanding 500 pounds or they are going out on strike. Fook me even the most hardened pro unionsists, must see that is wrong.

 

It would be interesting to know if these negotiations have been dragging for weeks and months, or if the union are chancing their arm in a 'got them over a barrel' way.

 

Negotiations are just that. Compromise on both sides to move the company forward.

[tony13579]

As for £44k as a starting salary - not bad!

I doubt you can just join london transport and become a tube driver on 44k the next day.

I bet there is a job that leads in to it... ex british rail driver and a whole load of tickets (exam certs) (medicals)

And how many of you have started work on a week of shifts at 5:30 on site?

responsibillity... how many of you are responsible for the lives of 400 people every time you drive?

Who wants to live in London with the house prices?

If a southampton bus driver gets £25k a tube driver on earlier shifts with london housing costs and more responsibillity has to be worth £40k ish, minimum

 

I am not saying thier demands are right just the balance of the argument is a bit twisted.

[Wade Garrett]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression you couldn't have a bank holiday on a Sunday?

 

 

If their contract is similar to mine, we have all the night, weekend and bank holiday rates factored into our salary. Sundays and bank holidays probably have the same rate.

[Verbal]

Do you really think that? How does the RMT negotiating a better deal of its workers make anyone else better off? Tube strikes cost unsalaried workers that don't get to work on time and the higher salarise of tube staff are passed on to consumers i.e. other workers.

 

You're afraid it's true, aren't you. Well guess what? It is! Not for the localised inconvenience, but activities that create a high wage economy - of which union action is one - helps sustain your ability to buy your Wii. Honest, it's true. Ask any decent economist, if that's not an oxymoron.

[bridge too far]

If their contract is similar to mine, we have all the night, weekend and bank holiday rates factored into our salary. Sundays and bank holidays probably have the same rate.

 

My man is the same - he gets an enhanced shift allowance to cover all that you've said. However, he's been asked to do o/time between Xmas and NY to cover for absences (only on-call, not at the lab) and they've offered him 4 x normal rate.

[Verbal]

And Delldays - life is too short to rummage through all your pithy one-liners, but if bankers went on strike - yes, I'd sack 'em. Replace them with you - and even I'd admit you'd do a better job.

[Pancake]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression you couldn't have a bank holiday on a Sunday?

 

Yup, said the same thing a page ago.

[Thedelldays]

And Delldays - life is too short to rummage through all your pithy one-liners, but if bankers went on strike - yes, I'd sack 'em. Replace them with you - and even I'd admit you'd do a better job.

 

could not help yourself lol

[trousers]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Boxing+Day

 

Box·ing Day (bksng)n. The first weekday after Christmas, celebrated as a holiday in parts of the British Commonwealth, when Christmas gifts are traditionally given to service workers.

[trousers]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression you couldn't have a bank holiday on a Sunday?

 

Correct

[thesaint sfc]

I expect their union will be demanding that all tube drivers are armed and given body armour before long.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

you blame the london bankers who earn around £40k a year..?

 

What a **** argument. Can you please tell the the investment bank where a Tube driver trades in billions of pounds?

[Deppo]

Is it possible to have a bank holiday on a Sunday? I didn't think it was, given that Banks don't open on Sunday!

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

You're afraid it's true, aren't you. Well guess what? It is! Not for the localised inconvenience, but activities that create a high wage economy - of which union action is one - helps sustain your ability to buy your Wii. Honest, it's true. Ask any decent economist, if that's not an oxymoron.

 

Now you're just getting confused. Only high productivity can sustain a high wage economy. Union action doesn't create value in itself, only increases in productivity create value. Some people other than the tube workers may benefit from increased spending from tube workers, but those same people (and more) have already paid for those wage increases anyway. Above inflation wage increases for tube workers don't add anything to the pot, they just increase the share of the pot going to tube workers.

[Verbal]

Now you're just getting confused. Only high productivity can sustain a high wage economy. Union action doesn't create value in itself, only increases in productivity create value. Some people other than the tube workers may benefit from increased spending from tube workers, but those same people (and more) have already paid for those wage increases anyway. Above inflation wage increases for tube workers don't add anything to the pot, they just increase the share of the pot going to tube workers.

 

A sweatshop full of slave labourers can have high productivity. So no - you need the RMT to be as militant as possible for you to maintain a decent lifestyle. Union activity shares value around of course - leaving a tad less for employers and shareholders.

[dune]

A sweatshop full of slave labourers can have high productivity. So no - you need the RMT to be as militant as possible for you to maintain a decent lifestyle. Union activity shares value around of course - leaving a tad less for employers and shareholders.

 

And taking a slice from employees to keep Union leaders on top end salaries. Typical Socialism.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

A sweatshop full of slave labourers can have high productivity. So no - you need the RMT to be as militant as possible for you to maintain a decent lifestyle.

 

Of course it can have high productivity but the reverse isn't true, highly paid and low productivity aren't a sustainable partner in the long term. What a sweatshop has to do with this situation I don't know. You can only increase prosperity if you increase the value being added. Higher wages only benefit an economy if they are the result of doing something better.

 

Union activity shares value around of course - leaving a tad less for employers and shareholders.

 

But in this case there are no shareholders - Transport for London is owned by the public and doesn't make profits. Highers cost are passed straight to the customer because there are no profits to take the hit. Either that or tax payer has to provide a greater subsidy or investment in service has to decrease. As I said earlier the Tube workers are simply increasing their share of the pot. We've already established that they want more money for the same level of service so the pot is not being increased.

 

The RMT are acting purely in their own interest and are seeking to maximise the wages (i.e. profits) of its members. They are very effective capitalists.