Poortvliet's progress report

[trousers]

Probably worthy of a discussion thread of it's own....have only skim read it so far....

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/article.php?page_id=10725

With ten Championship games now under his belt, Saints' head coach Jan Poortvliet has given a frank assessment of Southampton's season so far.

Poortvliet's arrival during the summer signaled a radical re-think of the Club's footballing philosophy, both on and off the field. And such a transition was always going to be a gradual process - with changes affecting every level of the club from the Academy through to the First Team.

In the midst of the second international break of the season, Saints sit twentieth in the Championship table with 11 points, having picked up wins against Derby County, Doncaster and Norwich City and drawn against Ipswich Town and Barnsley.

Poortvliet has used the pause in league hostilities to take stock of the campaign so far, and is convinced that his young side are very much moving in the right direction.

"I think at the moment when you see everything there is a big part of me that's satisfied and a small part that we still have to work on," he explained.

"There is a lot coming - it is a young team, a new team and there is a lot of work to do, but I am very happy with the start we have had because we wanted to go out and do something and play a certain kind of football and I think we did that."

Before last Saturday's reverse at Coventry City, Saints had put together a promising run of performances, going four games undefeated and picking up consecutive wins ahead of the trip to the Ricoh Arena.

The Dutchman feels that, although that result was a minor set-back, his side have already responded well and will be keen to learn from their mistakes and push on.

"I know it is two steps forward and one step backwards and now we need to take three steps forward. I think we are getting there," he continued.

"I didn't think we would lose the game like we did last Saturday. After two good games I thought we were further on than I saw then, but it is only small details.

"I believe we were more consistent, having not lost for four games in the league, even when we weren't always the better team. That gave us something to build on and I believe that we are just at the start of something good."

Those 'small details' are now something that Poortvliet will be focusing on, ahead of the next league encounter against Watford at St. Mary's on October 18th.

He explained: "We have to play more compact, be careful about losing the ball in some areas and have to attack with more drive and determination to score goals.

"Even last Saturday we had a lot of chances to score goals, but we gave some goals away a bit too easily and we have to work on all these things. The confidence in the way we play is already there and now we have to score when we need to do so.

"This is a point when we have to go on and believe in it and when we have possession we have to ask more of ourselves.

"A lot of the goals we have conceded are concentration problems, looking and thinking 'Oh, it's my man.' It's a question of motivation and being responsible for your job on the field and everyone has to help out as well."

Poortvliet has kept faith with the young talent in his squad and does not believe that age is a barrier to success.

"We have to work on the small details like how we concede goals and when we have to come back, when we have to go when we want to play pressure, but it is all a learning experience.

"Is it because we are young? I don't think so. There has to be motivation on the field as well as off. The players have to motivate one another, talk to each other, and that's what we have to learn.

"They want to do it, they look hungry, they want to achieve and they were really disappointed to lose against Coventry but will learn a lot from that result."

Saints will now be looking to put those lessons into practice when Watford visit St. Mary's, but Poortvliet is looking even further forward.

"When we come back, we have five lovely games in a row, and we have to be there," he said.

"The next ten games have to be our games because we can do it and we are convinced we can do it."

[trousers]

This made me smile:

 

"Poortvliet has kept faith with the young talent in his squad"

 

As if he has a choice to replace most of the 'youngsters' with an older equivalent....

 

[saintrich]

To sum up as the Echo did:

 

JP wants the players to:

 

 

* To be more compact

* Concentrate and take responsibility on the pitch for your job and your teammates

* Cut out losing the ball in bad areas

* To attack for goals with added drive and determination

[Mowgli]

Can't argue with much of that. JP seems to talk a good game by praising players when they do well and criticising them when they don't. The only thing that seems to really rattle him is lack of effort. He ver talks about himself - positive or negative - and that is a good thing because it is the team that we should focus on. I thinkthere are some basic 'attitude' issues that he is trying to address alongside the defensive frailties and the missed goalscoring opprotunities. He has a tough job and he is not doing bad considering the resources at his disposal.

[Mowgli]

Can't argue with much of that. JP seems to talk a good game by praising players when they do well and criticising them when they don't. The only thing that seems to really rattle him is lack of effort. He ver talks about himself - positive or negative - and that is a good thing because it is the team that we should focus on. I thinkthere are some basic 'attitude' issues that he is trying to address alongside the defensive frailties and the missed goalscoring opprotunities. He has a tough job and he is not doing bad considering the resources at his disposal.

 

 

Sorry that should read 'very rarely talks about himself...'

[davefoggy]

To sum up as the Echo did:

 

JP wants the players to:

 

 

* To be more compact

* Concentrate and take responsibility on the pitch for your job and your teammates

* Cut out losing the ball in bad areas

* To attack for goals with added drive and determination

 

no **** sherlock!!!

 

JP talks the talk, but can't walk the walk i'm afraid

[swannymere]

no **** sherlock!!!

 

JP talks the talk, but can't walk the walk i'm afraid

 

Explain.

[Danbert]

It's only ever fair to judge a manager on the resources available to him and on that basis I think Jan has done a good job and should be congratulated. I love the way that he always finds a positive - I'm sure young players need that to boost their confidence.

[St Paul]

no **** sherlock!!!

 

JP talks the talk, but can't walk the walk i'm afraid

 

 

The juries still out on him in my opinion. Basic errors seem to be made, no striker on the bench for Birmingham game and playing Killer in League Cup. Both of which he has acknowledged were errors on his part.

Lack of defenders coming in, something GB was heavily critised for. Also the system seems to be pretty inflexable, and like Burley he seems to be unable to influence games as much as some Managers.

 

Personally I can see worrying signs that he's not quite up to it, but I hope I'm wrong. As someone who thought Rupert was out of his mind appointing WGS, I hope I'll be proved wrong again...........

[rooney]

What nobody can deny is that we are playing much better football now and I am enjoying going to St Mary's, unlike last season. The youngsters can but improve and I think we are in good hands with JP. Just watch us climb the table as the injured return for duty.

[solentstars]

It's only ever fair to judge a manager on the resources available to him and on that basis I think Jan has done a good job and should be congratulated. I love the way that he always finds a positive - I'm sure young players need that to boost their confidence.

good post he reminds me of arsene wenger withhis coaching methods with youngsters.

[derry]

What nobody can deny is that we are playing much better football now and I am enjoying going to St Mary's, unlike last season. The youngsters can but improve and I think we are in good hands with JP. Just watch us climb the table as the injured return for duty.

 

Going forward IF we have men wide. Defending is left to the back four. We are pretty indisciplined defending. We have to learn to defend as a team and get behind the ball quickly. In other words defend from the front.

 

Oh, and cut out this bloody arm in the air crap, appealing for offside, play to the whistle FFS.

[Alain Perrin]

Agree with the point about going to St Mary's again - we play good football. We've even lost and I've thought good game, hard luck. I rarely did that under GB or NP.

 

It makes me laugh that fans are quick to beat Lowe with the 10 managers in 10 years stat, yet freely call for the manager's head after 3 defeats on the bounce. Maybe if the fans were more tolerant the chairmen would be also.

[Willo]

The juries still out on him in my opinion. Basic errors seem to be made, no striker on the bench for Birmingham game and playing Killer in League Cup. Both of which he has acknowledged were errors on his part.

 

One of the things I respect and like about him is the fact that he is prepared to admit mistakes. Personally, I agreed with most of what he said in the article. I think we will survive this year, and I hope that he is given a few years to help us build a promotion-contending team.

 

I don't think any manager could get us promoted this year (with our limited resources) and so I don't judge him by that measure.

[eelpie]

Just one thing .... he hasn't acknowledged that tactically we are just plain naiive defensively.

[um pahars]

Agree with the point about going to St Mary's again - we play good football. We've even lost and I've thought good game, hard luck. I rarely did that under GB or NP.

 

I've only seen 5 games and that's included two 4-1 defeats, a drab 0-0 affair against one of the relegation candidates, a poor game against Ipswich and finally an outstanding performance against Norwich.

 

A 20% return for me hasn't got me salivating!!!!!

 

It makes me laugh that fans are quick to beat Lowe with the 10 managers in 10 years stat, yet freely call for the manager's head after 3 defeats on the bounce. Maybe if the fans were more tolerant the chairmen would be also.

 

Methinks you've somewhat missed the point here.

 

Sometimes the error is in the appointment and the sacking is a sympton of that first glaring error.

 

A case in point would be Wigley (or Gray).

 

Not many people had a problem with Wigley being sacked, the problem they had was with him being appointed and his subsequent performance.

 

I'm not overly sure there is a movement calling for Jan's head, he certainly isn't yet in the world of Wigley, and the next set of games will give a better indication as we progress towards the halfway mark.

[Wes Tender]

If he acknowledges that we are weak defensively, what does he think is the solution? Is it just a case of tinkering with the squad, getting the players disciplined to cover the defence and track back, improving their defending and marking at set plays, or is it a case that we need to redress the deficiencies by loaning some decent defenders until the youngsters improve? The latter is my choice, as by the time the youngsters have improved their defensive capabilities, the result of points lost is just not the increasing possibility of relegation, but also increasing loss of confidence, which is debilitating.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Agree with the point about going to St Mary's again - we play good football. We've even lost and I've thought good game, hard luck. I rarely did that under GB or NP.

 

It makes me laugh that fans are quick to beat Lowe with the 10 managers in 10 years stat, yet freely call for the manager's head after 3 defeats on the bounce. Maybe if the fans were more tolerant the chairmen would be also.

 

I would have given Sturrock more than 2 games into a new season if that's what you mean about being tolerant.

[Rorytheking]

To be honest I think we can only get better now. The team are gelling, but we've also had several people out through injury that could come in ie. Holmes, Skacel and Euell.

 

Also Gasmi's due to start soon and I have a really good feeling about him

[Capel Saint]

The juries still out on him in my opinion. Basic errors seem to be made, no striker on the bench for Birmingham game and playing Killer in League Cup. Both of which he has acknowledged were errors on his part.

Lack of defenders coming in, something GB was heavily critised for. Also the system seems to be pretty inflexable, and like Burley he seems to be unable to influence games as much as some Managers.

 

Personally I can see worrying signs that he's not quite up to it, but I hope I'm wrong. As someone who thought Rupert was out of his mind appointing WGS, I hope I'll be proved wrong again...........

 

I must confess to feeling the same. On the positive side I have been impressed with the type of football Jan is trying to get the team to play and it is nice to see the team being a bit more positive going forward.

 

My biggest concern, like St Paul stated (and others) is the number of times our defence becomes exposed and but for the brilliance of Davies in goal, our point tally would not be so healthy. I know a lot of the players are young and have been thrust into the 1st team probably before they are ready, but it is still worrying all the same.

 

I would like to see more closing down by the midfield players to help out the defence. I hope Jan will address this problem.

 

Also Jan has been guilty of a few basic manager mistakes which I do sometimes wonder if he is of a good enough calibre, even at CCC level. However, I hope he learns quickly from these mistakes and can, like the team, improve as the season goes on. Fingers crossed!

[Saint Billy]

Until our sunday league defence is sorted I will not comment on JP´s performance.

 

If our defence is not improved then we will definately be relegation material. Its all very well playing pretty and entertaining football, but I personally do not find it entertaining watching our defenders run about like blind cats chasing as mouse, not exactly my idea of total football.

[Capel Saint]

When I saw the Birmingham league game, in the first half, all the players were closing down the opposition and getting stuck in. It was impressive to watch and it was very effective as for the first half an hour the young Saints side made Birmingham look extremely average.

 

Unfortunately they didn't carry that on as much in the second half and eventually Birmingham managed to nick the points from us but I thought if they continue to do that then we should be ok this season. However, watching the Blackpool game and subsequent games they don't seem to do it half as much and I just wonder why that is, as it is so effective in disrupting the opposition getting into the game.

[doublesaint]

From the limited games I have seen this season, we appear to play fairly well when going forward until the last 3rd and then seem to either want to create the 'perfect' final pass, when someone should be inventive enough to attempt a direct shot from distance. Though at times defensively we look very frail at both full back positions though that is sometimes down to lack of cover for the full backs from midfield. One thing that did impress me was against Coventry when Jan clearly decided we were staring defeat in the face and made a triple substitution with roughly half an hour left, and maybe with better finishing we could have clawed it back a bit?

 

I think he is doing a farly decent job with what is at his disposal and hope that this season we could finish around mid table and then hopefully maintain the same squad for next year with the prospect of improving to either play off position or automatic promotion.

[Capel Saint]

From the limited games I have seen this season, we appear to play fairly well when going forward until the last 3rd and then seem to either want to create the 'perfect' final pass, when someone should be inventive enough to attempt a direct shot from distance. Though at times defensively we look very frail at both full back positions though that is sometimes down to lack of cover for the full backs from midfield. One thing that did impress me was against Coventry when Jan clearly decided we were staring defeat in the face and made a triple substitution with roughly half an hour left, and maybe with better finishing we could have clawed it back a bit?

 

I think he is doing a farly decent job with what is at his disposal and hope that this season we could finish around mid table and then hopefully maintain the same squad for next year with the prospect of improving to either play off position or automatic promotion.

 

Quite agree.

 

The problem is if the squad is allowed to stay together or whether the bank insists that players who become bankable are sold to service the debt.

[Toadhall Saint]

We look good going forward but my god we are poor when it comes to defending!

[Sheff Saint]

I've only seen 5 games and that's included two 4-1 defeats, a drab 0-0 affair against one of the relegation candidates, a poor game against Ipswich and finally an outstanding performance against Norwich.

 

A 20% return for me hasn't got me salivating!!!!!

 

 

 

Methinks you've somewhat missed the point here.

 

Sometimes the error is in the appointment and the sacking is a sympton of that first glaring error.

 

A case in point would be Wigley (or Gray).

 

Not many people had a problem with Wigley being sacked, the problem they had was with him being appointed and his subsequent performance.

 

I'm not overly sure there is a movement calling for Jan's head, he certainly isn't yet in the world of Wigley, and the next set of games will give a better indication as we progress towards the halfway mark.

 

 

Exactly, no one is really calling for JPs head. I just think there are a few things he (and Lowe) could and should be doing a bit differently.

 

I have to say though i wonder if i'm watching the same games as some on here. I've seen 3 live on 3 and tele so far and, brilliant as Derby 2nd half was, the others have been average and Rotherham, Blackpool and Coventry were as depressing matches as i've ever seen us play. We weren't even contesting in those games!

 

Still i've seen 2 out of 3 league wins and got two more matches to see next week so fingers crossed i keep that ratio up!

[1965onwards]

Remind me Willo where JP has admitted anything other than the players mistakes.

 

We do not have a proper team,we have a collection of disconnected departments who do not work properly together.

 

This has nothing to do with having young players,they have not grown up playing this way.

 

What on the surface looks to be an atrractive and intelligent way to play,is anything but intelligent,and not effective.To expose your defence to the degree that our defence is exposed is plainly dumb,especially with so many inexperienced players.

 

Our team does not move forward or back as a team,leaving huge holes at the back that opposing teams are exploiting at will,and not getting enough players forward quickly enough when we attack.

 

Either JP gets the players operating the system effectively,or he should modify the system to suit the players he has got.

[Whitey Grandad]

Agree with the point about going to St Mary's again - we play good football. We've even lost and I've thought good game, hard luck. I rarely did that under GB or NP.

 

It makes me laugh that fans are quick to beat Lowe with the 10 managers in 10 years stat, yet freely call for the manager's head after 3 defeats on the bounce. Maybe if the fans were more tolerant the chairmen would be also.

Good football? Does that mean letting in more goals than we score?

 

Until our sunday league defence is sorted I will not comment on JP´s performance.

 

If our defence is not improved then we will definately be relegation material. Its all very well playing pretty and entertaining football, but I personally do not find it entertaining watching our defenders run about like blind cats chasing as mouse, not exactly my idea of total football.

I agree completely! It's no fun watching amateurish defending, I've done enough of that myself so I know it when I see it. Despite that, I still think that it is much too soon to talk about changing the manager (make that 'coach') but I would like to see an acknowledgement that our defensive problems are the top priority.

[St Landrew]

Whatever anyone's opinion of Lowe/Wilde's choice of footballing philosophy at St Mary's, at the moment JP is doing as well as anyone could, given the resources at his disposal. Being almost totally constructed from inexperienced young players, and older players who are knocking on the door of their use-by date [let's leave Svensson out of that debate though], he has very little to choose from, player wise, that he can depend upon. I'm very much undecided whether Saints should be going down this road, but there's no denying a few things:

 

1. This is the cheapest, perhaps only sustainable route; a very well trodden path by SFC.

2. The team play some truly excellent flowing football at times.

3. I couldn't see anyone doing better than JP, given the circumstances.

4. Without major a investment/takeover, we appear to be stuck with this philosophy.

 

Yes, there are glaring problems which will take time to solve. But there's no point in jumping ship [because we can't anyway], or summing up JP's performance until it is absolutely beyond doubt that he cannot improve the team's position any more. In which case, there would need to be a philosophy change again - which appears to be impossible, given the circumstances. So it's up to us to either be positive, or to view the scenario as if we stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[1965onwards]

The players are capable of doing much better RIGHT NOW.

 

They need to move the ball forward at a pace whereby the whole team to can move forward together.

 

At the moment we are moving the ball forward too fast and loosing it to being outnumbered or to poor passing,before the other players can join in.

 

More haste less speed.

[Alain Perrin]

I've only seen 5 games and that's included two 4-1 defeats, a drab 0-0 affair against one of the relegation candidates, a poor game against Ipswich and finally an outstanding performance against Norwich.

 

A 20% return for me hasn't got me salivating!!!!!

 

Out of the games I have seen I am liking the football (with exception of Blackpool), if not the results. In most games we have had patches of excellent play, if we can cut out the silly errors then results should improve.

 

Methinks you've somewhat missed the point here.

Sometimes the error is in the appointment and the sacking is a sympton of that first glaring error.

A case in point would be Wigley (or Gray).

 

Hmmm, not sure I have. It would be the case if the statistic being used was how many poor managers has RL appointed, but it isn't, it is 10 managers in 10 years. On your criteria I'd argue:

 

3 bad (Gray / Wigley / Sturrock (based on RL's decision, not performance)

1 medium, but overstayed welcome (Burley)

1 medium, but events conspired (Jones)

2 good (Strachan / Hoddle)

1 good, but with bad results (Redknapp (but you can't fault the logic))

1 irrelevant (Souness)

 

(and the tenth is just a caretaker, so doesn't count).

 

So 3 out of nine isn't too bad.

Edited 10 October, 2008 by Alain Perrin

[Dalek2003]

no **** sherlock!!!

 

JP talks the talk, but can't walk the walk i'm afraid

 

 

Jp thinks he is a pilot but he cannot fly a plane.

[um pahars]

Out of the games I have seen I am liking the football (with exception of Blackpool), if not the results. In most games we have had patches of excellent play, if we can cut out the silly errors then results should improve.

 

Well, of course you're entitled to your own view, but we have only managed one win out of five at home, and I have managed to see us thumped twice away from home.

 

Whilst some of the football is pretty and quite technical at times, the overall position is that we sit fifth bottom, just above the relegation zone. That's how football is generally judged.

 

You can like the football all you like, I would rather like to have more points on the board (unless the authorities starting awarding bonus points for "sexy football").

 

Hmmm, not sure I have. It would be the case if the statistic being used was how many poor managers has RL appointed, but it isn't, it is 10 managers in 10 years. On your criteria I'd argue:

 

3 bad (Gray / Wigley / Sturrock (based on RL's decision, not performance)

1 medium, but overstayed welcome (Burley)

1 medium, but events conspired (Jones)

2 good (Strachan / Hoddle)

1 good, but with bad results (Redknapp (but you can't fault the logic))

1 irrelevant (Souness)

 

(and the tenth is just a caretaker, so doesn't count).

 

So 3 out of nine isn't too bad.

 

But you've missed the point again.

 

This was not a debate about the ten managers in ten seasons and the reasons behind this (been done to death over the years). It was about the lack of tolerance of the fans and how they call for the managers head, whilst also berating the Chairman for going through so many managers.

 

I merely pointed out that sometimes sacking someone is actually the correct decision and that you shouldn't shy away from doing so just because there has been a large number of managers in previous years (although at the same time as sacking that person, you should also review your selection and appointment process for employing such an incompetent person).

 

Espousing a need for stability in the long term, whilst also calling for an out of his depth manager to be dumped are not mutually exclusive, and I see no reason why you have tried to claim they are in this instance.

[hypochondriac]

I've only seen 5 games and that's included two 4-1 defeats, a drab 0-0 affair against one of the relegation candidates, a poor game against Ipswich and finally an outstanding performance against Norwich.

 

A 20% return for me hasn't got me salivating!!!!!

 

 

 

Methinks you've somewhat missed the point here.

 

Sometimes the error is in the appointment and the sacking is a sympton of that first glaring error.

 

A case in point would be Wigley (or Gray).

 

Not many people had a problem with Wigley being sacked, the problem they had was with him being appointed and his subsequent performance.

 

I'm not overly sure there is a movement calling for Jan's head, he certainly isn't yet in the world of Wigley, and the next set of games will give a better indication as we progress towards the halfway mark.

 

But Steve you missed three of our best games (both Birmnghams and the Derby game.) I would say at least 4 of our games we have played very well (and the QPR game we were the better team for large parts of it despite being down to ten men.)

[um pahars]

But Steve you missed three of our best games (both Birmnghams and the Derby game.) I would say at least 4 of our games we have played very well (and the QPR game we were the better team for large parts of it despite being down to ten men.)

 

I heard the Derby away performance was on a par with Norwich which gave me hope. One of the Brum games was in the Leaue Cup (which quite frankly is about as important as a friendly!!!). As for the other Brum game I'll take your word on it (although we did lose at home and friends said we looked pretty but not deserving of a win), so we have a decent game rate of 3/10, up 10% on my earlier assessment.

[Oz]

imho he is just a puppet and is being 'worked' by lowe. you will no doubt recall that lowe kept in touch with him (Portaloo) after he was ousted for some time. lowe is as fly as they come and bhe needed a patsy bas manager as he always has done.

 

lowe out

[Oz]

Well, of course you're entitled to your own view, but we have only managed one win out of five at home, and I have managed to see us thumped twice away from home.

 

Whilst some of the football is pretty and quite technical at times, the overall position is that we sit fifth bottom, just above the relegation zone. That's how football is generally judged.

 

You can like the football all you like, I would rather like to have more points on the board (unless the authorities starting awarding bonus points for "sexy football").

 

 

 

But you've missed the point again.

 

This was not a debate about the ten managers in ten seasons and the reasons behind this (been done to death over the years). It was about the lack of tolerance of the fans and how they call for the managers head, whilst also berating the Chairman for going through so many managers.

 

I merely pointed out that sometimes sacking someone is actually the correct decision and that you shouldn't shy away from doing so just because there has been a large number of managers in previous years (although at the same time as sacking that person, you should also review your selection and appointment process for employing such an incompetent person).

 

Espousing a need for stability in the long term, whilst also calling for an out of his depth manager to be dumped are not mutually exclusive, and I see no reason why you have tried to claim they are in this instance.

 

you missed out nigel pearson

[Alain Perrin]

Well, of course you're entitled to your own view, but we have only managed one win out of five at home, and I have managed to see us thumped twice away from home.

 

Whilst some of the football is pretty and quite technical at times, the overall position is that we sit fifth bottom, just above the relegation zone. That's how football is generally judged.

 

You can like the football all you like, I would rather like to have more points on the board (unless the authorities starting awarding bonus points for "sexy football").

 

Firstly it's 'schexy futball", please get it right

 

Secondly, my expectations for this season were (and are) bottom half. To expect any more with our current finances is not realistic in my opinion (although I do admit that based on some of our performances (Brum and Derby) it was easy to get carried away).

 

But you've missed the point again.

...snip....

Espousing a need for stability in the long term, whilst also calling for an out of his depth manager to be dumped are not mutually exclusive, and I see no reason why you have tried to claim they are in this instance.

 

I didn't miss your point, in fact I agree with it. My original point was not that fans shouldn't call for a manager (or a player for that matter) to leave, just that they shouldn't do so after an unreasonable time or when circumstances are not conducive to 'walk this league' results. i.e. it is more acceptable to criticise Burley for spunking a load of cash, than Portvliet who only has the youth players to rely on.

 

Anyway I have hope for a JP future, but IMHO this year has never been anything more than an exercise in survival.