Colinjb Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Not at all a loaded question! Unrealistic is probably the right point though. Socialists try to work against human nature by stipulating a system that is utterly fair for all, providing equal opportunity for all and equal chance for all. Human nature itself will always undermine such nobel ideals. Besides which, the captalist system they seak to use to make it possible could never support these dreams.
Gingeletiss Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Not at all a loaded question! Unrealistic is probably the right point though. Socialists try to work against human nature by stipulating a system that is utterly fair for all, providing equal opportunity for all and equal chance for all. Human nature itself will always undermine such nobel ideals. Besides which, the captalist system they seak to use to make it possible could never support these dreams. It was once written, that if you put three people on a deserted island, one will become the leader. Equality does not exist, so neither can the socialist/communist concept!
toofarnorth Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Kill all humans. Job done. Ah Kim jong-il, welcome back!
Fuengirola Saint Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 ... Is Dibden Purlieu Saint a complete **** who needs a slap? Discuss
buctootim Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Theres a huge difference between equality of opportunity - an equal chance in life to make of it what you can - and enforced levelling down of adults. Singapore has the first system - excellent education and healthcare provided by the state - but very little in the way of social welfare or pensions.
thesaint sfc Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Ah Kim jong-il, welcome back! I'm so ronery
GenevaSaint Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 They are just plain thick. I wondered how long it would take for the cretin to appear.
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 I wondered how long it would take for the cretin to appear. I notice you have no agrument against the the very truthful point I make. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Margaret Thatcher sums it perfectly in this video...
aintforever Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 It was once written, that if you put three people on a deserted island, one will become the leader. Equality does not exist, so neither can the socialist/communist concept! If it was written somewhere by someone it must be true. That's how it works, if you write something it instantly becomes a fact.
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 13 December, 2010 Author Posted 13 December, 2010 Is Dibden Purlieu Saint a complete **** who needs a slap? Discuss LOL at you reacting like this when you posted an equally ridiculous thread yesterday.
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 13 December, 2010 Author Posted 13 December, 2010 If it was written somewhere by someone it must be true. That's how it works, if you write something it instantly becomes a fact. Yep, I heard that too.
Colinjb Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 (edited) I notice you have no agrument against the the very truthful point I make. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Margaret Thatcher sums it perfectly in this video... She is utterly right. Sadly though, due to the need to slim down the rediculously inflated public sectors there will probably be a point of the poor becoming poorer in the next few years. Of course that's the tories/collation's fault though! It would be far too much to see that the standard of living rise under the champagne socialists was always unsustainable given the lack of domestic industry. Edited 13 December, 2010 by Colinjb
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 She is utterly right. Sadly though, due to the need to slim down the rediculously inflated public sectors there will probably be a point of the poor becoming poorer in the next few years. Of course that's the tories/collation's fault though! It would be far too much to see that the standard of living rise under the champagne socialists was always unsustainable given the lack of domestic industry. Standards of living did not rise under Labour, levels of personal debt did. Brown told everyone boom and bust was a thing of the past so people copied him and kept spending on the never never. It was all fake. I'm glad we're now living in an age of austerity because it has brought some realism back. If you want something save up for it - that is what our parents and grandparents did and that simple economic principle should govern the finances of the government too. People talk about reducing the deficit, but that is just the tip of th iceberg - the real problem is the debt and the interest on the debt.
badgerx16 Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Capitalism is a philosophy of greed, the creed of avarice, and the gospel of hate. It's inherent value is to subjugate the majority for the benefit of the minority. It is the cult of materialistic gluttony. True Socialism is founded in the principle that all men are created equal, it builds on this with the altruistic creed that each should have the same opportunity, and takes a realistic position on materialism - that everybody is entitled to food, clean water, health, secure housing, and the right to work to support themselves and their dependents.
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Capitalism is a philosophy of greed, the creed of avarice, and the gospel of hate. It's inherent value is to subjugate the majority for the benefit of the minority. It is the cult of materialistic gluttony. True Socialism is founded in the principle that all men are created equal, it builds on this with the altruistic creed that each should have the same opportunity, and takes a realistic position on materialism - that everybody is entitled to food, clean water, health, secure housing, and the right to work to support themselves and their dependents. Give some examples of sucessful Socialist countries.
Sheaf Saint Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Give some examples of sucessful Socialist countries. By what measure do you define successful?
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 13 December, 2010 Author Posted 13 December, 2010 By what measure do you define successful? Not a ****hole. Low levels of poverty. Low unemployment. Good education system. Good state pensions. Good healthcare service. The usuals.
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 By what measure do you define successful? You can't name any can you. Would you like us to list the sucessful capitalist countries?
Sheaf Saint Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 You can't name any can you. Would you like us to list the sucessful capitalist countries? Again, at the risk of repeating myself, by what measure do you define successful?
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Again, at the risk of repeating myself, by what measure do you define successful? I'll go with what DPS listed. So go on then, give us all the examples, we're waiting.
Lighthouse Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 The main problem with socialism is that there is no motivation to suceed. Why work hard at school, university etc to get a good education and become a doctor, scientist, lawyer etc. when the state is just going to take all your hard earned cash and give it to other people. You might as well just sit at home mooching off benefits. I can't think of a single socialist state which has been a success by any stretch of the imagination.
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 I can't think of a single socialist state which has been a success by any stretch of the imagination. Bexy is about to prove you wrong with her extensive list.
Colinjb Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Standards of living did not rise under Labour, levels of personal debt did. One and the same in this concept. People felt the standard of living was better because they could buy more stuff. That they couldn't really afford it is almost irrelevant. They will just blame the nasty people who won't let them continue.
hypochondriac Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 This thread is just as stupid as the one yesterday. It is interesting though that the guy who started the one yesterday finds this one offensive. Freedom of speech?
badgerx16 Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 If you measure 'success' by fiscal performance alone, there are bound to be 'successful' capitalist countries, ( though I doubt they would currently include Eire, Greece, or Portugal ). However, the majority of countries around the world, whatever their political affiliation, would classify as failures because of the exploitative consumption of the western 'civilisation'. The dominance of the G8 distorts everything. But even with all the wealth creation, there are still significant levels of deprivation and poverty, even in the archetypal market economies. If you earn over £21k pa you are in the richest 5% of the world's population.
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 We're still waiting for some examples... tick tock tick tock....
badgerx16 Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 The main problem with socialism is that there is no motivation to suceed. Why work hard at school, university etc to get a good education and become a doctor, scientist, lawyer etc. when the state is just going to take all your hard earned cash and give it to other people. You might as well just sit at home mooching off benefits. If you measure 'success' by materialism and accrued wealth & possessions you may be correct, but consider this : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11950843 Once you have all that you absolutely need, why not gain the 'feel good factor' of helping as many others as possible ?
aintforever Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Name a successful facist country then Dune...
badgerx16 Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 tick tock tick tock.... Is that your clockwork brain ? It's very loud. Explain the poverty and deprivation in the US.
Thedelldays Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Name a successful facist country then Dune... when did facism come into this..?
Colinjb Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 (edited) when did facism come into this..? Yeah. Capitalism and Fascism are not the same thing. It's just an easy slander to associate. Not all capitalists demand violent conflict and despise individualism... far from it. Edited 13 December, 2010 by Colinjb
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Name a successful facist country then Dune... It's an interesting observation to make that the most sucessful Socialist country ever was NAZI Germany.
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Is that your clockwork brain ? It's very loud. Explain the poverty and deprivation in the US. I'm still waiting for this extensive list. Shhhhhhhh.
aintforever Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 You can have left wing Capitalist countries, no one on here is saying we should be like communist Russia - like Dune and his little nazi brain would have you think.
Sheaf Saint Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 So go on then, give us all the examples, we're waiting. It was Badger that you challenged to name some, not me. I was just interested to know how you measure success, that's all.
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 You can have left wing Capitalist countries, no one on here is saying we should be like communist Russia - like Dune and his little nazi brain would have you think. Can you help Becky and Bodger with the list?
solentstars Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 why is these type of threads seem to attract the same right wing pikeys who love cash and think of only of themselves, the i,m allright jack types. apologys to the normal educated tory voters who hate that these loons that latch on to your party.
buctootim Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 I'm still waiting for this extensive list. Shhhhhhhh. All the successful economies are regulated market based. NONE are unbridled capitalism and NONE are totally socialist. Both these threads are based on a specious premise. The only real argument is just how much regulation and redistribution of wealth there should be. And before somebody says none, which one of the fuc kwits will - total deregulation - you know where old ladies die in the street and goods are shoddy and dangerous, is bad for business - you just end up with a free for all race to the bottom - which successful international companies refuse to take part in .
Pancake Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 True Socialism is founded in the principle that all men are created equal, it builds on this with the altruistic creed that each should have the same opportunity So the child raping murderer is equal to the peace-loving philanthropist?
aintforever Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Can you help Becky and Bodger with the list? Isn't Barrak Obama considered left wing in the US - I nominate the USA. Now you give me a more sucessfull right wing country....
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 solentstars can you give us some examples of successful Socialist countries?
dune Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Isn't Barrak Obama considered left wing in the US - I nominate the USA. Now you give me a more sucessfull right wing country.... The USA is capitalist, try again.
solentstars Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 Give some examples of sucessful Socialist countries. germany
aintforever Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 The USA is capitalist, try again. left wing government though, you try again...
Thedelldays Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 left wing government though, you try again... really...obama and co are left wing....maybe for the US..but he would be very much right of the tories..
badgerx16 Posted 13 December, 2010 Posted 13 December, 2010 So the child raping murderer is equal to the peace-loving philanthropist? You do know that you get child raping murderers in capitalist countries, don't you ?
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