Students

[trousers]

Adiran, I have the feeling you're wasting your time. This place, on this subject, is a sea of synaptically challenged, gimlet-eyed resentment, expressed with the kind of vengefulness that betrays a deep-seated and rather pathetic envy of students en masse.

 

Damn. You're good at this. There was me trying to conceal my true inner beliefs. Probably best if we all share one view in future. This 'different opinions' malarkey will never catch on....

[trousers]

Can someone please list a few addresses I can go to in order to demonstrate against the demonstrators using the same techniques they (or their hanger-on-er-ers) have used? Just a few addresses will do. I have my paint tins and full bladder ready to go.

[Smirking_Saint]

How many of the bankers that got us into this financial sh*tstorm are paying back the money that they p*ssed away on bad investments? The condems are still refusing to regulate the banking industry, even though that evil little p*ick Nick Clegg promised to do so in his manifesto! Meanwhile the bankers are sitting back in their members clubs drinking their fine scottish malts and port, whilst waiting for thier fat Christmas bonus paid for by our taxes. So why should students have to pay even higher tuition fees, when their parents have paid their taxes and that money has gone to some fat cat banker to keep him and his property portfolio ticking along nicely.

 

Before any of say "but bankers pay taxes as well" you should find out how much tax they pay, having worked with a few whilst on business at Barclays trading house, I can tell you that they have very efficient tax vehicles which mean that they pay very little tax, in a lot of cases no more or even less than any rank and file member of the armed forces or the police.

 

It's their cycle of greed and Labours lack of backbone to do something about their industry that got this country into this mess, they should be doing more than their fair share to get it back out of it again.

 

Whilst nothing is done by this government to level the playing field, which currently allows their mates to get away with carrying on in the same fashion as before and with Cameron and Clegg continuing to tell us that we are all in this together and that the tough decisions that put more hard working decent and honest people out of work, have to be made, i'm afraid that these protests will become an every day thing and become increasingly more violent. That is what happens when people feel that they don't have a voice or aren't being listened to.

 

Just because i agree with the student tuition fees rising does not mean i do not blame the banking industry (and labour) for the financial sh*tstorm we are currently in.

 

Of course they should be made accountable.

 

My main concern is all of the students that have come out of the woodwork to complain about these proposals where probably 90% will never ever pay off, in full their 'debt'.

 

As someone said earlier, it will probably equate to under 5% of their annual salaries to pay off the vehicle that has propelled them to the higher wage bracket.

 

And no, not everyone should be entitled to do a degree otherwise you have another measure of academic level that is completely and utterly useless. You need ways to pick the wheat from the chaff.

 

Unfortunately now people will have the choice of going to work and earning a living or going to university to p*ss it up for a further few years.

[thesaint sfc]

I'd love to pick SRS up in a helicopter and drop him right in the middle of all of them.

[franny]

Why does it seem that if you don't want to pay for someone else to go to uni.. And don't like watching people smash up public buildings that we will have to pay for to be repaired.. Mean you love the daily mail???

 

Christ

 

An opposing view is not allowed, as with much of what the left of centre propogate if you disagree they will label you as a Daily Heil reader, racist, homophobe, little Englander or whatever else comes to hand and seems to suit they desire to denigrate your view. I wouldn't bother if I was you they cannot engage in any sensible debate without name calling, never seemed to move on from the politics of the school playground (that is a critiicism of the argument mode not the individual whom I am sure is a mature free thinking adult).

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

An opposing view is not allowed, as with much of what the left of centre propogate if you disagree they will label you as a Daily Heil reader, racist, homophobe, little Englander or whatever else comes to hand and seems to suit they desire to denigrate your view. I wouldn't bother if I was you they cannot engage in any sensible debate without name calling, never seemed to move on from the politics of the school playground (that is a critiicism of the argument mode not the individual whom I am sure is a mature free thinking adult).

 

I think you'll find I've conducted myself with some decorum on this thread!

[Deppo]

An opposing view is not allowed, as with much of what the left of centre propogate if you disagree they will label you as a Daily Heil reader, racist, homophobe, little Englander or whatever else comes to hand and seems to suit they desire to denigrate your view. I wouldn't bother if I was you they cannot engage in any sensible debate without name calling, never seemed to move on from the politics of the school playground (that is a critiicism of the argument mode not the individual whom I am sure is a mature free thinking adult).

 

Did you notice what you did there?

[franny]

I think the joke is that dune and his mates post the same hysteria every time...

 

As I have pointed out elsewhere the same charge could be leveled at Thorpe-le-Saint and his "mates", people have opposing views perhaps equally strongly held as yours and in their minds equally valid. Why is that wrong? I might find your posts arrogant and patronising but what value is there in trivialising them by describing them as hysteria or loony left claptrap etc surely the better way is to counter them with some other argument. Why is it hysteria? You and your fellows do not have a monopoly on right thinking. It is no wonder so many have to resort to violence since the idea of respectful argument seems lost.

[franny]

Did you notice what you did there?

 

yes, hence the words in brackets

[st alex]

F*cking teenagers, they're all lazy morons with nothing to do all day, moaning about the 3 hours of lectures they have to go to a week.

 

3 hours a week for 6-9k a year, doesn't sound like great value for money, I think that's partly what they are complaining about.

 

Personally I do see an issue with the current system, in that every Tom, **** goes to uni often just because they are just copying everyone else and want to spend 3 yrs boozing. The argument saying that its all because students want to get good jobs and become wealthy is a bit flimsy since the country does need people with high qualifications, and they would pay for this anyway through higher tax rates which people seem to have forgotten. Having graduated a couple of yrs ago I can now consider myself quite fortunate. Although how any future graduates will ever get onto the housing ladder is beyond me since they will be saddled with such huge debt.

I would propose a system where a quota of degree places on every course are free or heavily subsidised on a sliding scale for the students most capable, with the subjects which most need graduates having more than the micky mouse courses. Start making it more about the most able students and not something which is only for the very poor and very rich, which ultimately is quite unfair to the large middle class population who will be hardest hit. Base the system on ability and desire to learn as opposed to how wealthy they might get or be.

To be honest a loan isn't really that generous, as they do have to be paid back, even with the new 21,000k threshold, it should only be a few years until that is the basic wage (think about what annual salaries were 10 yrs ago), so everyone's going to have to pay it back eventually.

[Deppo]

yes, hence the words in brackets

 

You didn't notice then.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours a week for 6-9k a year, doesn't sound like great value for money, I think that's partly what they are complaining about.

 

Personally I do see an issue with the current system, in that every Tom, **** goes to uni often just because they are just copying everyone else and want to spend 3 yrs boozing. The argument saying that its all because students want to get good jobs and become wealthy is a bit flimsy since the country does need people with high qualifications, and they would pay for this anyway through higher tax rates which people seem to have forgotten. Having graduated a couple of yrs ago I can now consider myself quite fortunate. Although how any future graduates will ever get onto the housing ladder is beyond me since they will be saddled with such huge debt.

I would propose a system where a quota of degree places on every course are free or heavily subsidised on a sliding scale for the students most capable, with the subjects which most need graduates having more than the micky mouse courses. Start making it more about the most able students and not something which is only for the very poor and very rich, which ultimately is quite unfair to the large middle class population who will be hardest hit. Base the system on ability and desire to learn as opposed to how wealthy they might get or be.

To be honest a loan isn't really that generous, as they do have to be paid back, even with the new 21,000k threshold, it should only be a few years until that is the basic wage (think about what annual salaries were 10 yrs ago), so everyone's going to have to pay it back eventually.

 

Oh behave,

 

The poor little darlings are hardly paying much back FFS

 

At £21k pa a gradutate will pay nothing.

At £22k pa a grad will repay £90pa

At £30k pa a grad will repay £810pa

At £50k pa a grad will repay £2610 pa

At £150k pa a grad will repay £11,610 pa

 

And if you haven't managed to repay it in 30 years its written off

 

Thats not a huge and restrictive repayment plan is it ?? And the so called 'debt' was created when they took the degree course in order to improve themselves and therefore their paypacket.

[trousers]

Oh behave,

 

The poor little darlings are hardly paying much back FFS

 

At £21k pa a gradutate will pay nothing.

At £22k pa a grad will repay £90pa

At £30k pa a grad will repay £810pa

At £50k pa a grad will repay £2610 pa

At £150k pa a grad will repay £11,610 pa

 

And if you haven't managed to repay it in 30 years its written off

 

Thats not a huge and restrictive repayment plan is it ?? And the so called 'debt' was created when they took the degree course in order to improve themselves and therefore their paypacket.

 

Quite.

 

I'm a worker who contributes to the Exchequer roughly £2,000 per month. That means my "debt" (to coin a much mis-used word), in terms of mandatory future payment required of me by the exchequer, is approximately £500,000.

 

Five hundred grand I'm in debt right now!

 

Sheesh...Where's the next riot....let me at them....this is war....innit

[Smirking_Saint]

Quite.

 

I'm a worker who contributes to the Exchequer roughly £2,000 per month. That means my "debt" (to coin a much mis-used word), in terms of mandatory future payment required of me by the exchequer, is approximately £500,000.

 

Five hundred grand I'm in debt right now!

 

Sheesh...Where's the next riot....let me at them....this is war....innit

 

Feck me Trousers

 

I thought i was on a good wage

 

[Jonnyboy]

How many of the bankers that got us into this financial sh*tstorm are paying back the money that they p*ssed away on bad investments? The condems are still refusing to regulate the banking industry, even though that evil little p*ick Nick Clegg promised to do so in his manifesto! Meanwhile the bankers are sitting back in their members clubs drinking their fine scottish malts and port, whilst waiting for thier fat Christmas bonus paid for by our taxes. So why should students have to pay even higher tuition fees, when their parents have paid their taxes and that money has gone to some fat cat banker to keep him and his property portfolio ticking along nicely.

 

Before any of say "but bankers pay taxes as well" you should find out how much tax they pay, having worked with a few whilst on business at Barclays trading house, I can tell you that they have very efficient tax vehicles which mean that they pay very little tax, in a lot of cases no more or even less than any rank and file member of the armed forces or the police.

 

It's their cycle of greed and Labours lack of backbone to do something about their industry that got this country into this mess, they should be doing more than their fair share to get it back out of it again.

 

Whilst nothing is done by this government to level the playing field, which currently allows their mates to get away with carrying on in the same fashion as before and with Cameron and Clegg continuing to tell us that we are all in this together and that the tough decisions that put more hard working decent and honest people out of work, have to be made, i'm afraid that these protests will become an every day thing and become increasingly more violent. That is what happens when people feel that they don't have a voice or aren't being listened to.

 

[dune]

I think you will find a lot more demos will happen while the condems slash and burn.

This is just the beginning.

 

I hope so because this means the government is doing a good job.

[Deppo]

I agree with dune, but I won't really see it is as being a good job until people start to commit terrorist attacks in the name of their cause and innocent people die. That will mean the government have been really successful in their policymaking and will have done a great job.

[dune]

Stanley is obviously excluded as he'll still be at home with mum for the duration.

 

As you have persistently chose to attack me and bring up my previous username perhaps you'd like me to call you "Three Lions" or maybe you'd prefer "The Bedroom General".

[dune]

I agree with dune, but I won't really see it is as being a good job until people start to commit terrorist attacks in the name of their cause and innocent people die. That will mean the government have been really successful in their policymaking and will have done a great job.

 

Ignoring your sillyness, the reason that I believe more protests will be a good thing is because that will mean the government are not watering down the necessary cuts. 13 years of Labour has left this country on it's knees and like the Germans implemented austerity measures after reunification and are now a powerhouse we must do the same to achieve the same.

[Deppo]

As you have persistently chose to attack me and bring up my previous username perhaps you'd like me to call you "Three Lions" or maybe you'd prefer "The Bedroom General".

 

[dune]

 

A red prada bag. Not the fogiest what that has to do with anything, but cheers for quoting my post.

[scotty]

Oh behave,

 

The poor little darlings are hardly paying much back FFS

 

At £21k pa a gradutate will pay nothing.

At £22k pa a grad will repay £90pa

At £30k pa a grad will repay £810pa

At £50k pa a grad will repay £2610 pa

At £150k pa a grad will repay £11,610 pa

 

And if you haven't managed to repay it in 30 years its written off

 

Thats not a huge and restrictive repayment plan is it ?? And the so called 'debt' was created when they took the degree course in order to improve themselves and therefore their paypacket.

 

the protesters seem to believe that big vern from the eezi-loan finance company is going to be kicking their front door down demanding his 20 grand back the minute they graduate. ffs

[Thedelldays]

was there any upfront fees with the current/old system..?

[SuperMikey]

3 hours a week for 6-9k a year, doesn't sound like great value for money, I think that's partly what they are complaining about.

 

Personally I do see an issue with the current system, in that every Tom, **** goes to uni often just because they are just copying everyone else and want to spend 3 yrs boozing. The argument saying that its all because students want to get good jobs and become wealthy is a bit flimsy since the country does need people with high qualifications, and they would pay for this anyway through higher tax rates which people seem to have forgotten. Having graduated a couple of yrs ago I can now consider myself quite fortunate. Although how any future graduates will ever get onto the housing ladder is beyond me since they will be saddled with such huge debt.

I would propose a system where a quota of degree places on every course are free or heavily subsidised on a sliding scale for the students most capable, with the subjects which most need graduates having more than the micky mouse courses. Start making it more about the most able students and not something which is only for the very poor and very rich, which ultimately is quite unfair to the large middle class population who will be hardest hit. Base the system on ability and desire to learn as opposed to how wealthy they might get or be.

To be honest a loan isn't really that generous, as they do have to be paid back, even with the new 21,000k threshold, it should only be a few years until that is the basic wage (think about what annual salaries were 10 yrs ago), so everyone's going to have to pay it back eventually.

 

I will point out that I was making that comment ironically, in order to parody the likes of Turkish etc. I am a student myself.

[Deppo]

A red prada bag. Not the fogiest what that has to do with anything, but cheers for quoting my post.

 

It was my pleasure quoting your protest against View From The Top. And I agree with it too. You are right to protest against View From The Top. It does, however, show that he is doing a good job.

[dune]

It was my pleasure quoting your protest against View From The Top. And I agree with it too. You are right to protest against View From The Top. It does, however, show that he is doing a good job.

 

He is doing a very good job. In fact he strikes me as an expert at what he does.

[Verbal]

Damn. You're good at this. There was me trying to conceal my true inner beliefs. Probably best if we all share one view in future. This 'different opinions' malarkey will never catch on....

 

It's depressing that you're falling in with the mob trousers. I don't have any problem at all with different points of view. What I do object to is the sullen, nasty, resentful way in which the condemnations of all students are expressed. It is brainless envy, and, ironically given the events of yesterday, yet another example of mob rule.

[Thedelldays]

It's depressing that you're falling in with the mob trousers. I don't have any problem at all with different points of view. What I do object to is the sullen, nasty, resentful way in which the condemnations of all students are expressed. It is brainless envy, and, ironically given the events of yesterday, yet another example of mob rule.

 

you are such a snob

[Verbal]

you are such a snob

 

Case closed.

[Thedelldays]

Case closed.

 

seriously..all you do is look down at people who dont hold your views...and they immediately must be "thick" or stupid...

 

must be great being right all the time...

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

was there any upfront fees with the current/old system..?

 

From 2002-06 I paid £1300 a year, including whilst I was on placement. I now have a student loan being taken at 140 a month. I don't really notice it in all honesty.

 

Back to the protests. I was there last night, but only due to the fact I was working late (on the 4th floor of Topshop no less) and I couldn't really got out. What struck me most when I got out the back entrance and talking to students was how they didn't understand that the fees weren't payable up front. It was pathetic. These people weren't Uni quality anyway.

 

****ing idealistic socialist ****s. Man up, ****s.

[dune]

I would imagine much of the trouble was organised on the internet by UAF types. I bet they are loving the situation and the opportunity to egg on the students to live out their fantasies of anarchy.

[Thedelldays]

thanks DPS..

 

so with the new scheme...no fee paid upfront at all..?

 

IF SO...surely this opens the door for MORE people to go to uni..?

[SuperMikey]

From 2002-06 I paid £1300 a year, including whilst I was on placement. I now have a student loan being taken at 140 a month. I don't really notice it in all honesty.

 

Back to the protests. I was there last night, but only due to the fact I was working late (on the 4th floor of Topshop no less) and I couldn't really got out. What struck me most when I got out the back entrance and talking to students was how they didn't understand that the fees weren't payable up front. It was pathetic. These people weren't Uni quality anyway.

 

****ing idealistic socialist ****s. Man up, ****s.

 

And hereby you learn a life lesson - all people are thick c*nts.

[SuperMikey]

thanks DPS..

 

so with the new scheme...no fee paid upfront at all..?

 

IF SO...surely this opens the door for MORE people to go to uni..?

 

I've technically not paid anything up front, because my tuition loan for the year goes straight to the university. Same for all students with a tuition loan from the SLC.

[dune]

SuperDooperMikey have you attended any protests?

[Deppo]

I would imagine much of the trouble was organised on the internet by UAF types. I bet they are loving the situation and the opportunity to egg on the students to live out their fantasies of anarchy.

 

As with all your rhetoric, straw man arguments based in your imagination.

[Thedelldays]

so..people will be able to go to uni..learn, get laid, get drunk, get a degree....

not pay a penny up front...and pay back small amounts per month when they earn a decent wage

 

and that is a bad deal..?

 

opens the door for more people to get educated...surely..?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

thanks DPS..

 

so with the new scheme...no fee paid upfront at all..?

 

IF SO...surely this opens the door for MORE people to go to uni..?

 

Nutshell.

[Deppo]

must be great being right all the time...

 

You have to start small, tdd. Why don't you start by just wishing to be right some of the time. Or just once.

[dune]

As with all your rhetoric, straw man arguments based in your imagination.

 

It does happen. You get the ring leaders organising and stirring things up on the internet. Often these people have no intention of turning up themselves. This imo makes them far worse than the hoodlums. In fact one cannot help but feel revulsion for such types.

[dune]

Deppo are you watching the free roll?

[dune]

I think I need a lay down. I agree with you.

 

It's not good. I agree with Delldays most of the time and i'm not happy about it.

[View From The Top]

Part of the problem is that fees levied at £9k per year are just the tuition fees. On top of that accomodation fees etc need to be factored in which also need to be paid back.

 

My mates nipper is in his 1st term at Leicester uni. His fees for his halls are £110 per week and he had to pay for 40 weeks!

 

As was also mentioned on R4, and something I hadn't realised, mortgage providers are increasing basing their mortgage offers of disposable income and that is going to have a big impact of the ability of graduates to get on the property ladder.

 

What will put many off is the thought of being £30k - £40k in debt when they are starting out in life. We struggle to recruit enough science and maths students into teaching as it is and even the GTC and IfL expect the numbers to fall as the impact filters through.

 

Oh, and Stanley, I couldn't give a sh*t what you call me or who knows that I was sent down for my role at Maze Hill 9 years ago.

 

It matters to me not one iota. It clearly doesn't matter of OFSTED either as I've just be graded as outstanding in an orgaisation graded as good.

[dune]

Oh, and Stanley, I couldn't give a sh*t what you call me or who knows that I was sent down for my role at Maze Hill 9 years ago.

 

It matters to me not one iota. It clearly doesn't matter of OFSTED either as I've just be graded as outstanding in an orgaisation graded as good.

 

Three Lions, you perfectly illustrate the point I was making about the students and how they are being used by Anarchist types. Essentially they are being infiltrated by scum that are loading the proverbial gun and encouraging them to fire the bullets.

[Um Bongo]

But how many people/unis are going to charge the £9k? I've read it's going to be a 'handful'.

 

£6k is what most will have to fork out. LEt's drop the £9k ******** if most people won't be paying it.

[scotty]

Part of the problem is that fees levied at £9k per year are just the tuition fees. On top of that accomodation fees etc need to be factored in which also need to be paid back.

 

My mates nipper is in his 1st term at Leicester uni. His fees for his halls are £110 per week and he had to pay for 40 weeks!

 

As was also mentioned on R4, and something I hadn't realised, mortgage providers are increasing basing their mortgage offers of disposable income and that is going to have a big impact of the ability of graduates to get on the property ladder.

 

What will put many off is the thought of being £30k - £40k in debt when they are starting out in life. We struggle to recruit enough science and maths students into teaching as it is and even the GTC and IfL expect the numbers to fall as the impact filters through.

 

Oh, and Stanley, I couldn't give a sh*t what you call me or who knows that I was sent down for my role at Maze Hill 9 years ago.

 

It matters to me not one iota. It clearly doesn't matter of OFSTED either as I've just be graded as outstanding in an orgaisation graded as good.

 

Yes, its the thought. And its only a thought because it is, more accurately, a graduate tax repayable only if and when they are earning a graduate's income.

 

And as you were listening to R4 yesterday you will have heard the rep from the mortgage lenders saying that it will make no practical difference to students when they get on the salary ladder and want a mortgage, as the percentage of income that will be deducted is so low. A couple of posters on here have quoted the scale, and if you look at it its pretty obvious that it wont impact severely on their disposable income.

[Smirking_Saint]

Part of the problem is that fees levied at £9k per year are just the tuition fees. On top of that accomodation fees etc need to be factored in which also need to be paid back.

 

My mates nipper is in his 1st term at Leicester uni. His fees for his halls are £110 per week and he had to pay for 40 weeks!

 

As was also mentioned on R4, and something I hadn't realised, mortgage providers are increasing basing their mortgage offers of disposable income and that is going to have a big impact of the ability of graduates to get on the property ladder.

 

What will put many off is the thought of being £30k - £40k in debt when they are starting out in life. We struggle to recruit enough science and maths students into teaching as it is and even the GTC and IfL expect the numbers to fall as the impact filters through.

 

Oh, and Stanley, I couldn't give a sh*t what you call me or who knows that I was sent down for my role at Maze Hill 9 years ago.

 

It matters to me not one iota. It clearly doesn't matter of OFSTED either as I've just be graded as outstanding in an orgaisation graded as good.

 

Life is full of choices VFTT

 

In my mind you are an adult when you realise this and start looking at the choices you have and acting on them, i fully suspect that most of those causing the violence yesterday were types who have now had their easy ride through an easy life for another few years taken away from them a little bit further (and with respect its still too easy as most will NEVER pay it back)

 

End of the day the choices in life make you who you are, i made a choice 3 years back to take a pay cut (8k BTW) and take the job i have now which was a technical training position and i was paid to take a uni course along with working full time. That choice paid off as i am now earning a modest sum and i am very happy and comfortable.

 

Problem is the youth today expect life to be handed on a plate and don't want to work or make sacrifice. They WANT a house, they WANT a good job and salary and they don't WANT to work particularly hard for it. Its about time they are taught in school that life is not like that and the world will not always pander to those that just want to coast although for me it has for a long time.

 

If they want a worthwhile degree and so a well paid job then they will have to make that choice, but no choice worth making comes without risk or sacrifice i am afraid.

[trousers]

Feck me Trousers

 

I thought i was on a good wage

 

 

Ah...just realised I was doing the wrong rough calculation....just checked and it's £1400 per month (income tax + NI) ....so I'm only £420,000 in debt for the rest of my working life....phew! :-)

[Jonnyboy]

so..people will be able to go to uni..learn, get laid, get drunk, get a degree....

not pay a penny up front...and pay back small amounts per month when they earn a decent wage

 

and that is a bad deal..?

 

opens the door for more people to get educated...surely..?

 

Why is this brought up again and again as if people aged 18-30+ dont get wasted on a weekend unless they are studying a degree - have you ever been down leisure world on a saturday night?