Students

[dune]

Good idea.We dont want anyone expressing an opinion in a supposedly free country.

Lets just go to work,then sit quietly in our homes while the government totally ruin our lifes.

 

We did that between 1997 and 2010. Now thankfully we've got rid of Labour.

[Draino76]

I'm glad I have a bit of justification when I tell students they can go do one if they think I'm paying for their tourism degree.

 

Cheers.

[Smirking_Saint]

Lol at moaning at police tactics when it is ok to break into buildings, attack innocents and throw bricks, snooker balls and other missles is obviously completely ok.

 

'Every action has an equal and opposite reaction' - Although i don't expect many of those so called students to know who or what that saying is about, mindless tools.

[rocknrollman no2]

We did that between 1997 and 2010. Now thankfully we've got rid of Labour.

 

I think you will find a lot more demos will happen while the condems slash and burn.

This is just the beginning.

[Smirking_Saint]

Why do people think that a factor which will allow people to advance themselves to enable them to earn more and more be free ??

 

I bet 90% of the students will never ever end up paying off all of the debt anyways.

[rocknrollman no2]

I'm glad I have a bit of justification when I tell students they can go do one if they think I'm paying for their tourism degree.

 

Cheers.

 

How are you paying for the students?

Do you make a donation?

[buctootim]

I think you will find a lot more demos will happen while the condems slash and burn.

This is just the beginning.

 

Whats to protest about? As a country we spent too much in the vague hope we would get unfeasibly large GDP growth each year. As soon as we hit a recession the friggin great hole in the budget was obvious. Personally I'd cut pensions and introduce some charges for healthcare to bridge the gap instead of education but not my call.

[trousers]

lol at the idiots saying the libdems have broken their promise..

 

do they not get the concept of a "coalition"

 

No. It's a bit too complex for them. Bless.

[revolution saint]

lol at the idiots saying the libdems have broken their promise..

 

do they not get the concept of a "coalition"

 

Well the libdems have broken their promise - they said they would never support a rise in tuition fees and they have (or at least the leadership has) so their supporters have a right to be annoyed. When they voted for a party they voted for their policies and even in a coalition govt if that chosen party reneges on their promises then it's supporters have a right to disagree. There wasn't a single lib dem voter who voted for coalition so stop calling them idiots.

 

The fact is that the debt on students is increasing and they won't get a better education for it - they're making up the shortfall in govt. funding. It's a legitimate argument to say they should be paying for their education and it's also legitimate to argue that a maintenance in govt. spending and increasing access to higher education will benefit both the country and the student. It's up to the individual to make their mind up. The vast majority of demonstrators today were peaceful but had their point to prove - you may disagree with it but it doesn't make them idiots.

[View From The Top]

Listening to a number of interviews with those involved in the rioting it would appear that their anger was aimed at the scrapping of EMA.

 

In the Black Country community OB expect crime to rise from January as plenty of NEETS won't bother with courses etc as EMA will no longer be available from then to new entrants.

 

Two of the charities who I worked closely with, who are very successful in getting NEETS into jobs or FE are laying off staff as the projected intake is down by 80%

[trousers]

Bless them,

 

They really are proving what a great bunch of people they are.

 

Also have you heard half of the interviews from the students ??

 

'Its imparrin' are humin rites innit'

 

Hardly sound like future graduates to me.

 

An interview with one of the mindless thugs on news just now: "I'm from an inner city slum innit - where is I gonna get 9 grand from? I is gonna have to start sellin' drugs innit"

 

Sigh

[Draino76]

How are you paying for the students?

Do you make a donation?

 

Yes; but a lot less now.

[View From The Top]

It will be interesting to see who the residents tory c**ts feel when their kids face debts of £30k + for going to uni.

 

Stanley is obviously excluded as he'll still be at home with mum for the duration.

[Smirking_Saint]

An interview with one of the mindless thugs on news just now: "I'm from an inner city slum innit - where is I gonna get 9 grand from? I is gonna have to start sellin' drugs innit"

 

Sigh

 

Lol

 

Just saw that aswell.

 

knobs

[trousers]

How about the rest of the country go and protest about the students who've eaten away at our tax money for so many years?

 

Why don't we all go round the local student houses, smash in their windows, set fire to their possessions and eat all their pot noodles? If they noticed the carnage that was left behind, do you think they would just shrug their shoulders and say 'hey ho, it was a protest, so anything's allowed'?

 

Name the date and time and I'm with you. It is afterall our yuman rites to protest against these stoodents protestin' innit?

[Smirking_Saint]

It will be interesting to see who the residents tory c**ts feel when their kids face debts of £30k + for going to uni.

 

Stanley is obviously excluded as he'll still be at home with mum for the duration.

 

Oh view do f*ck off.

 

Its not like any normal debt is it FFS ?? This isn't like buying a sofa with interest.

 

You ONLY pay it off under certain limits to pay and even then reletively slowly FFS, in many cases they won't actually pay the full debt off will they ?

 

And all to enable them to earn more money (if they do a ligitimate degree) or just stay out of work and p*ss it up (if they choose a mickey mouse one)

 

There are many ways to gain a degree/further education, plus earn a salary and have a stable job.

[trousers]

I think you will find a lot more demos will happen while the condems slash and burn.

This is just the beginning.

 

As amusing as it is when repeated ad-infinitum, it's 'conlibs' not 'condems'. The 'dems' bit comes after the 'libs' bit.

 

My pleasure.

[rocknrollman no2]

Whats to protest about? As a country we spent too much in the vague hope we would get unfeasibly large GDP growth each year. As soon as we hit a recession the friggin great hole in the budget was obvious. Personally I'd cut pensions and introduce some charges for healthcare to bridge the gap instead of education but not my call.

 

Well what you suggest is an option,but i would not like to start charging money for services which should be provided free on the NHS.As for the reasons for protesting,just wait till the public sector cuts start to bite.

Less people working in government,hospitals,councils,police,justice system,schools,i could go on.All of these people will be angry at losing their jobs and the rest of us should be mad that services will be cut to the bone and prices for basic things will increase significantly(20% vat from Jan 1st).

Still we can find trillions of pounds to send troops to Afganistan and Iraqi and find the money for Trident.

We can also find the money to bail out the banks and still allow the idiots in charge of those banks to retain their huge bonuses from causing this mess in the first place.

No wonder people are starting to riot.

[Lighthouse]

An interview with one of the mindless thugs on news just now: "I'm from an inner city slum innit - where is I gonna get 9 grand from? I is gonna have to start sellin' drugs innit"

 

Sigh

 

Yeah, it doesn't really help their cause when people like that are on their side.

[Smirking_Saint]

Well what you suggest is an option,but i would not like to start charging money for services which should be provided free on the NHS.As for the reasons for protesting,just wait till the public sector cuts start to bite.

Less people working in government,hospitals,councils,police,justice system,schools,i could go on.All of these people will be angry at losing their jobs and the rest of us should be mad that services will be cut to the bone and prices for basic things will increase significantly(20% vat from Jan 1st).

Still we can find trillions of pounds to send troops to Afganistan and Iraqi and find the money for Trident.

We can also find the money to bail out the banks and still allow the idiots in charge of those banks to retain their huge bonuses from causing this mess in the first place.

No wonder people are starting to riot.

 

I have not agreed to much but i do agree with what you have written here, all except the Trident bit anyways.

[Draino76]

OMG, not more demonstrations by students! How will this country cope?

 

This may be even more serious than the Cantona 'bring down the banks' by withdrawing cash out of ATMs.

 

Al Queda eat yer heart out.

[rocknrollman no2]

An interview with one of the mindless thugs on news just now: "I'm from an inner city slum innit - where is I gonna get 9 grand from? I is gonna have to start sellin' drugs innit"

 

Sigh

 

I think the point he was trying (although he could have said it better),to make was ,he could just as easily turn to crime,but chose to instead better himself and go to uni.But because of the condems,he now wont be able to.

[buctootim]

Well what you suggest is an option,but i would not like to start charging money for services which should be provided free on the NHS.As for the reasons for protesting,just wait till the public sector cuts start to bite.

Less people working in government,hospitals,councils,police,justice system,schools,i could go on.All of these people will be angry at losing their jobs and the rest of us should be mad that services will be cut to the bone and prices for basic things will increase significantly(20% vat from Jan 1st).

Still we can find trillions of pounds to send troops to Afganistan and Iraqi and find the money for Trident.

We can also find the money to bail out the banks and still allow the idiots in charge of those banks to retain their huge bonuses from causing this mess in the first place.

No wonder people are starting to riot.

 

I don't like any cuts - but education and defence are pretty small budgets -around £50bn total compared with pensions / welfare and health - around £230bn total from memory. 3% from the biggies will save more than 10% from the smaller budgets.

[trousers]

the libdems have broken their promise

 

Was anyone really naive enough to believe that a party who usually get a couple of dozen seats each parliament, and who have said what they like from the sidelines for the last 50 odd years in the knowledge that they would never have to implement what they say, would be able to implement one of their policies (aka pledges) as a minority partner in a compromise (aka coalition) Government?

 

If anyone TRUELY believed that then they are more naive that Clegg and Co were in the first place for making a 'promise' that they could never keep if they didn't win a majority (ha ha) in the general election.

 

Sigh

 

 

...the debt on students

 

It's not a "debt" - they are simply being asked to pay an additional (and relatively small) monthly contribution to the exchequer from their pay packet - in all but name it is a small percentage increase in their PAYE)

[trousers]

I think the point he was trying (although he could have said it better),to make was ,he could just as easily turn to crime,but chose to instead better himself and go to uni.But because of the condems,he now wont be able to.

 

He won't be able to? Sorry, lost me there....

[trousers]

Yeah, it doesn't really help their cause when people like that are on their side.

 

I didn't get the impression he was quite ready for higher education just yet. Sounds like he had missed out on some of the lower education stuff somewhere along the line....

[scotty]

I think the point he was trying (although he could have said it better),to make was ,he could just as easily turn to crime,but chose to instead better himself and go to uni.But because of the condems,he now wont be able to.

 

He wont be any more able or any less able to.

[rocknrollman no2]

He wont be any more able or any less able to.

 

You are right,it wont change his choices,but it will change his amount of debt when he completes his degree.In a lot of cases instead of having to pay back £9000 he will have to pay back £27000.

[SO16_Saint]

Is it not possible for the parents to assist with the repayment of the students debt? I'm not a parent yet, but I'm sure that parents would want to help in any way they can, and by the tax coding they could take some of the burden off of the child, therefore paying the debt back quicker.

 

I know that I would be happy to do this.

[Lighthouse]

You are right,it wont change his choices,but it will change his amount of debt when he completes his degree.In a lot of cases instead of having to pay back £9000 he will have to pay back £27000.

 

At a rate of about £15 a week (assuming for a second he gets a job earning £30kpa). So this bloke wants to go to uni, but isn't willing to give up 3% of his future wages to pay for it. Wow, he must really have a passion for his career.

[RedAndWhite91]

A lawyer with 5 years experience will be getting £45,000 - £80,000 a year so paying that off shouldn't be a problem.

[revolution saint]

Was anyone really naive enough to believe that a party who usually get a couple of dozen seats each parliament, and who have said what they like from the sidelines for the last 50 odd years in the knowledge that they would never have to implement what they say, would be able to implement one of their policies (aka pledges) as a minority partner in a compromise (aka coalition) Government?

 

If anyone TRUELY believed that then they are more naive that Clegg and Co were in the first place for making a 'promise' that they could never keep if they didn't win a majority (ha ha) in the general election.

 

Sigh

 

 

 

It's not a "debt" - they are simply being asked to pay an additional (and relatively small) monthly contribution to the exchequer from their pay packet - in all but name it is a small percentage increase in their PAYE)

 

Whether they believed the libdems could carry it out or not is irrelevant - that's what they voted for and if the party that pledged to carry it out fails to do that then they have a right to disagree. I thought that was a fairly simple argument. In fact it's not really even up for debate is it? You vote for a party because of their policies and if they renege you can disagree. Easy really.

 

It is a debt. In the same way your mortgage is a debt. Of course there are caveats but at the end of the day most students will end up paying more money because of tuition fees. Owing money is called debt. Hope that helps.

[rocknrollman no2]

At a rate of about £15 a week (assuming for a second he gets a job earning £30kpa). So this bloke wants to go to uni, but isn't willing to give up 3% of his future wages to pay for it. Wow, he must really have a passion for his career.

 

Actually students start paying back at £21000 and lets face it,if they have studied a degree in a subject like engineering,medicine,law etc,it wont be too long before your wages are at that level.

Im not against the idea of students paying towards their education,because they benefit from it.But so does the country by having a skilled workforce.We just need to find a way that encourages poorer students to get a degree.

[Lighthouse]

Whether they believed the libdems could carry it out or not is irrelevant - that's what they voted for and if the party that pledged to carry it out fails to do that then they have a right to disagree. I thought that was a fairly simple argument. In fact it's not really even up for debate is it? You vote for a party because of their policies and if they renege you can disagree. Easy really.

 

It is a debt. In the same way your mortgage is a debt. Of course there are caveats but at the end of the day most students will end up paying more money because of tuition fees. Owing money is called debt. Hope that helps.

 

No it's not, there is a massive difference. If you get sacked tomorrow, you don't get to stop paying your mortgage. You can't buy a house and then delay paying it off for years until you've got a decent job. The deal students are getting is far cosier than any mortgage on the market.

[Lighthouse]

Actually students start paying back at £21000 and lets face it,if they have studied a degree in a subject like engineering,medicine,law etc,it wont be too long before your wages are at that level.

Im not against the idea of students paying towards their education,because they benefit from it.But so does the country by having a skilled workforce.We just need to find a way that encourages poorer students to get a degree.

 

I know, that's why I took £30k. It's a moddest figure, which a qualified graduate could reasonable expect to earn.

[revolution saint]

No it's not, there is a massive difference. If you get sacked tomorrow, you don't get to stop paying your mortgage. You can't buy a house and then delay paying it off for years until you've got a decent job. The deal students are getting is far cosier than any mortgage on the market.

 

Depends whether you have mortgage protection or not but that's a different topic altogether. My argument isn't whether it's right or wrong to charge students for their education merely that they are having to pay more for it, it won't be a better education and that they have a legiitimate right to protest against it.

[Badger]

Actually students start paying back at £21000 and lets face it,if they have studied a degree in a subject like engineering,medicine,law etc,it wont be too long before your wages are at that level.

Im not against the idea of students paying towards their education,because they benefit from it.But so does the country by having a skilled workforce.We just need to find a way that encourages poorer students to get a degree.

 

Aren't all students 'poor' whilst studying ?

 

I don't understand this obsession about students from poorer backgrounds - if this is your area of concern- frankly.If their education is going to enhance their earning potential as it is argued, they will be in the same position to repay their student loans,as those from other backgrounds.Why make such an issue of it ?

[badgerx16]

Is it not possible for the parents to assist with the repayment of the students debt? I'm not a parent yet, but I'm sure that parents would want to help in any way they can, and by the tax coding they could take some of the burden off of the child, therefore paying the debt back quicker.

 

I know that I would be happy to do this.

If you have 3 kids, say with 5 years between the oldest and youngest, and they all want to go to Uni, how would your finances fare then ?

[badgerx16]

I think that there are 2 very important issues that are being clouded by the fees debate; Firstly, in a travesty of Parliamentary process, the votes last night were to establish the principles that £6000 and £9000 could be set for the stated circumstances. At no point yet, it was stated on the news this morning, has a White Paper been presented to Parliament to give the details and processes by which these decisions will be implemented - very 'cart before the horse'.

 

Secondly, there is the cut of 80% in the universities' teaching budgets, which it is inferred is to be partially met by the fees changes. Given the first phases of the cuts are likely to be imminent, and the first repayments through the new arrangements can not possibly be for at least 5 years, what bridges the gap ?

[GenevaSaint]

Secondly, there is the cut of 80% in the universities' teaching budgets, which it is inferred is to be partially met by the fees changes. Given the first phases of the cuts are likely to be imminent, and the first repayments through the new arrangements can not possibly be for at least 5 years, what bridges the gap ?

 

More government borrowing surely?

[Minty]

The following is quite interesting, and very important IMO for understanding the proposals. Sadly, this is one thing that has been missing from most of the media coverage: the facts of what it will cost and how it will work.

 

Warning: Put aside your political views whilst you read this, and read this purely to understand the facts of the matter. I know some might struggle with that.

 

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2010/12/03/the-argument-over-student-loans-could-kill-the-next-generations-education/

[angelman]

very good link

[CB Saint]

The article made interesting reading

 

Can you really not repay early? - I f that is the case then that is plain stupid.

[angelman]

As far as I understand, although the vote was passed, the nitty gritty still has to be worked out in parliament, so the questions of repaying early and at what interest rate can be "changed"

[sadoldgit]

welcome to the harsh world we all live in

 

Indeed. Whilst I would support some financial support for students who will makea contribution to this country in key areas in years to some but what we don't need is more Media Studies students clogging up photocopiers up and down the country. Or call centres. All that money on a degree and thy are doing jobs a school leaver could do.

[RedAndWhite91]

'students', 'them', what exactly are people talking about? basically a huge and diverse group. making any comment about such a large group will be wrong. of course there are morons, lazy people, wasters, of course some protestors will get violent. some might not even be students, not care about the cause but want to get involved, others will be thick students, some might even be intelligent but violent students, I'm sure there's a mix of every kind.

 

Students who swung on our flag on our national memorial to the young men who died for their freedom, students who p!ssed on and defaced the memorial to Winston Churchill, students who damaged property, attacked a royal car, set the statue of Lord Palmerston alight, attacked police, ran riot through London and no doubt caused thousands upon thousands of pounds damaged. Diverse group or not, I've no sympathy for the ****s. They make me ashamed to be part of their generation.

[Lighthouse]

Students who swung on our flag on our national memorial to the young men who died for their freedom, students who p!ssed on and defaced the memorial to Winston Churchill, students who damaged property, attacked a royal car, set the statue of Lord Palmerston alight, attacked police, ran riot through London and no doubt caused thousands upon thousands of pounds damaged. Diverse group or not, I've no sympathy for the ****s. They make me ashamed to be part of their generation.

 

It's the same for me. I have no problem at all with young people wanting to be educated so they can get a decent job. It's the people who don't think they should pay for their degree, even though all of them can afford it, and so thrown their toys out the Pram. Defacing a monument to war heroes and a statue of Sir WC isn't exactly endearing them to the rest of the nation.

[Minty]

Students who swung on our flag on our national memorial to the young men who died for their freedom, students who p!ssed on and defaced the memorial to Winston Churchill, students who damaged property, attacked a royal car, set the statue of Lord Palmerston alight, attacked police, ran riot through London and no doubt caused thousands upon thousands of pounds damaged. Diverse group or not, I've no sympathy for the ****s. They make me ashamed to be part of their generation.

 

But did every student do that? No. Which was the point.

 

I condemn the behaviour that you describe above, but it wasn't everyone.

 

If there is some violence at a football game that you attended, is it fair to blame all fans who attended for the violence?

[Gingeletiss]

but I'm grateful the rises didn't come in before I went, because I just wouldn't have been able to and I'd have been gutted.

 

Why??

 

It's not pay on the day education, is it. You'll only pay when you earn, that IMO, and the opinions of many I know, is an acceptable thing. Why should we pay for three years of partying.....on another note, if you only get '6' hours of lectures per week, how's this for a novel idea, do 18 hours of lectures, and hey presto, only 1 year at University!!

[Thedelldays]

Some of the behaviour yesterday was utterly disgraceful...and still, the great unwashed try to blame the police..

 

Edit - what has prince Charles got to do with any of this..

 

Don't get me started on the person urinating on the Churchill statue and disgracing the cenotaph...

 

If this is the so called future of the country then we are fukked.. Free degrees or nor

 

Students on the radio calling the police a disgrace for not providing food and hot drinks???

 

My god