Students

[aintforever]

I see that we are just going to post unrelated b*llocks in order to forget about the smashing up of buildings, the attempted assault of royals and the violence we have seen in each and every so called 'protest' ?

 

The fact that the issue is being discussed on here shows that violent protest works. Just like it did for the Poll Tax.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Be careful.. At this rate, the UAF will be listed as a terrorist organisation (like one or two animal rights groups).... How would parents feel about that??

 

Do you actually read things dullard? What can they do if I'm no longer member? Nothing. Do I care what they think about me being a former member? No. Unlike the members in our profession who are in the BNP, there are actually socialist teacher groups (which I'm not a part of I have to say, and before some smart arse mentions it they are not the unions) and being an anti-fascist is 'encouraged' due to government initiatives like 'Every Child Matters'. Besides if a BNP scumbag can be struck off and re-instated despite believing in things that means that he will discriminate against those in his class, I haven't got anything to worry about.

[Fuengirola Saint]

Isn't it a touch hypocritical to blame all bankers - it's like saying all students are rioters!

 

I agree a lot of banks, and thus bankers, are to blame for the financial meltdown - RBS being the biggest culprit - but a whole lot more of the banks have continued to perform well, have not had any hand outs from the Gov't, have made some healthy profits, all of which have been taxed, and that tax money been spent by whichever party has been in power.

 

To blame the 'banks' and 'bankers' for the recession is wrong.

 

Who do we blame then for the global recession? Mr Brown, Frau Merkal, Mr Bush, Snr Zapatero, Msr Sarkozy,Г-н Путин ( Mr Putin ) or the financial institutions that gambled recklessly on an unsustainable property price boom.

[Johnny Bognor]

Who do we blame then for the global recession? Mr Brown, Frau Merkal, Mr Bush, Snr Zapatero, Msr Sarkozy,Г-н Путин ( Mr Putin ) or the financial institutions that gambled recklessly on an unsustainable property price boom.

 

All of them. HTH

[Weston Super Saint]

Who do we blame then for the global recession? Mr Brown, Frau Merkal, Mr Bush, Snr Zapatero, Msr Sarkozy,Г-н Путин ( Mr Putin ) or the financial institutions that gambled recklessly on an unsustainable property price boom.

 

Personally I'd start with the policy makers who made the policies that allowed the banks to gamble so recklessly, a few tighter controls and a lot more reaction from the then chancellor, could have avoided a whole lot of grief. Sadly Mr Brown thought his policies were bullet proof, and there was no way he was going to change them.

 

Like Johnny said, 'all of them' would be a good place to start.

[Viking Warrior]

Originally Posted by Saintandy666

I don't see why we should sit down and shut up just because we decided to protest

Saintandy666. So are you suggesting that police shoud just stand there and let the unruly hoards such as yourself kick **** out of them or better still just not turn up then you have a fre role to do wwhat ever you like,

Im pretty sure that a few hot heads would wanted to get inside the house of parliment and I wonder how many MPS would have ben injured , it only takes a few *****s to start a riot and the baying wolves like you follow soon afterwards

 

I was a student once but I never behaved like this.

 

PS You and some of your fellow protestors need to read up on history and realise what the cenotapph stands for . Its is a memorial to all those who lost their lifes so people like you can protest today in such a viscious manner

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

That's ******, whilst if you go to Uni you don't have to pay it back unless you earn a decent salary, the prospect of getting in at least 30K odd of debt will put off many students, especially from a poor background.

 

Chances are, an 18 year old from some inner city slum will look at the debt and think they will be better off being a manager at mcDonalds getting 25K a year from tomorrow rather than study and be poor for 3 years, get 50K in debt, then leave and probably only earn 25K a year anyway.

 

If you're dad's a millionare and you've been bankrolled through Eton, going to Uni is a non brainer but to 18 year olds from deprived backgrounds these fees are just another barrier in their way.

 

Surely if that's the way they look at it they aren't well enough educated to go to Uni...

[the colonel]

Back the students and eduacation system. Stop the tories from sending us back to 'Education for the rich'.

 

OK for student fees but it must be means-tested. Those can afford it pay, those who can't don't. The poor MUST NOT be stopped from beig given the same opportunities as the rich.

[Smirking_Saint]

Back the students and eduacation system. Stop the tories from sending us back to 'Education for the rich'.

 

OK for student fees but it must be means-tested. Those can afford it pay, those who can't don't. The poor MUST NOT be stopped from beig given the same opportunities as the rich.

 

Once again, if you are earning 22k a year you pay back 90 pa, and only when you earn 150K you pay back 11.5k. Hardly ensuring that only the rich can pay is it ??

 

I just don't see this as a valid arguement.

[Sour Mash]

The fact that the issue is being discussed on here shows that violent protest works. Just like it did for the Poll Tax.

 

Well they shouldn't be allowed to be seen to "work". It creates a very dangerous precedent and is completely undemocratic.

[sperm_john]

Back the students and eduacation system. Stop the tories from sending us back to 'Education for the rich'.

 

OK for student fees but it must be means-tested. Those can afford it pay, those who can't don't. The poor MUST NOT be stopped from beig given the same opportunities as the rich.

 

you obviously havent even read the bill that just went through ...it actually favours the poor, what a stupid comment to make and probably based on the same grounds most of those students are protesting on ...they havent even read whats going through

[Sour Mash]

Back the students and eduacation system. Stop the tories from sending us back to 'Education for the rich'.

 

OK for student fees but it must be means-tested. Those can afford it pay, those who can't don't. The poor MUST NOT be stopped from beig given the same opportunities as the rich.

 

Have you bothered to look at what is actually being proposed? I guess by your rant, you clearly haven't.

[Gingeletiss]

Back the students and eduacation system. Stop the tories from sending us back to 'Education for the rich'.

 

OK for student fees but it must be means-tested. Those can afford it pay, those who can't don't. The poor MUST NOT be stopped from beig given the same opportunities as the rich.

 

 

I agree with the few posts above, read the bill first, then comment. As to cuts in university funding, this in the long run, could be a good thing, There are many 'graduates' working the fast food route to riches and fame, maybe this will encourage them to start on this road three years earlier! Less rubbish on the streets of Southampton on a Saturday and Sunday morning, less housing being gobbled up for 'student' accomodation, more parking spaces on our side roads, and maybe, just maybe, the good Universitys will attract private funding, thus ensuring education for the brighest of our yoof. The rest can join up/get a job/get an apprenticeship, do national sevice to the country (my favorite one).

[dune]

Be careful.. At this rate, the UAF will be listed as a terrorist organisation (like one or two animal rights groups).... How would parents feel about that??

 

 

Nice one.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

 

Nice one.

 

Yea ****in well done innit!!!!11111!!!111!

[Verbal]

I agree with the few posts above, read the bill first, then comment. As to cuts in university funding, this in the long run, could be a good thing, There are many 'graduates' working the fast food route to riches and fame, maybe this will encourage them to start on this road three years earlier! Less rubbish on the streets of Southampton on a Saturday and Sunday morning, less housing being gobbled up for 'student' accomodation, more parking spaces on our side roads, and maybe, just maybe, the good Universitys will attract private funding, thus ensuring education for the brighest of our yoof. The rest can join up/get a job/get an apprenticeship, do national sevice to the country (my favorite one).

 

And warm beer in pubs with sawdust on the floor, and smog-filled streets in London, and coppers knocking beatniks on the heads, antimacassars on the floral settee, hand-cranking starters for car engines, the national anthem on telly at 10.30pm, brown leather football boots with nailed-in studs, a tiny privileged percentage of the elite allowed through the hallowed doors of academia...and most of all, the workers of this world knowing their damned place.

 

Meanwhile, in the modern world.

[Jonnyboy]

Personally I'd start with the policy makers who made the policies that allowed the banks to gamble so recklessly, a few tighter controls and a lot more reaction from the then chancellor, could have avoided a whole lot of grief. Sadly Mr Brown thought his policies were bullet proof, and there was no way he was going to change them.

 

Like Johnny said, 'all of them' would be a good place to start.

 

And the tories supported it all

[Jonnyboy]

Once again, if you are earning 22k a year you pay back 90 pa, and only when you earn 150K you pay back 11.5k. Hardly ensuring that only the rich can pay is it ??

 

I just don't see this as a valid arguement.

 

whats to stop the goalposts being moved in the future?

[dune]

Yea ****in well done innit!!!!11111!!!111!

 

You're so easy to wind up Thorpie.

[RedAndWhite91]

I see the 'student' who tried to burn down the Christmas tree in Trafalgar Sq is too loaded and lives in a £1million house.

 

This must have been the wealthiest riot in history.

[dune]

I see the 'student' who tried to burn down the Christmas tree in Trafalgar Sq is too loaded and lives in a £1million house.

 

This must have been the wealthiest riot in history.

 

He's typical of the new breed of hobby Socialists. They have that much money they can afford to support such an incompetent ideology because when it leads the country down the pan they will still be alright.

[Lighthouse]

whats to stop the goalposts being moved in the future?

 

So now we are outraged at hypothetical changes to the system which the ConDems haven't even invented yet?

[RedAndWhite91]

He's typical of the new breed of hobby Socialists. They have that much money they can afford to support such an incompetent ideology because when it leads the country down the pan they will still be alright.

 

Hobby socialist, never thought of it that way before, sums the little tossers up perfectly.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

You're so easy to wind up Thorpie.

 

I assume powers of perception were not part of your HND course?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

He's typical of the new breed of hobby Socialists. They have that much money they can afford to support such an incompetent ideology because when it leads the country down the pan they will still be alright.

 

What does that make me then? Am I just a socialist ****?

[dune]

What does that make me then? Am I just a socialist ****?

 

You're just selfish. Being a public sector workers you're bound to vote for the party that is funded by the Unions. This country is riddled with a mountain of debt and we need to run a budget surplus to erode that debt. It's simple economics, but of course that isn't your subject.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

You're just selfish. Being a public sector workers you're bound to vote for the party that is funded by the Unions. This country is riddled with a mountain of debt and we need to run a budget surplus to erode that debt. It's simple economics, but of course that isn't your subject.

 

Actually I understand that perfectly. I just think that, and I've said this before, even a token gesture from the banking sector would appease a lot of people myself included.

[dune]

Actually I understand that perfectly. I just think that, and I've said this before, even a token gesture from the banking sector would appease a lot of people myself included.

 

I'm glad to see you're moving away from your far left views. I think it will make you a better person.

[benjii]

Back the students and eduacation system. Stop the tories from sending us back to 'Education for the rich'.

 

OK for student fees but it must be means-tested. Those can afford it pay, those who can't don't. The poor MUST NOT be stopped from beig given the same opportunities as the rich.

 

It is means tested FFS, just in a different way.

 

You only start paying it back when you earn enough money. Your means are tested retrospectively. It is clearly a much fairer method than upfront means testing which would help the poorest few, be of little consequence to the rich but shaft the vast majority of middle-income families.

 

Further, universities wishing to charge the highest fees (remember this is an increase in a cap - not a prescirbed charge) will be required to provide bursaries.

 

I still have yet to hear a single convincing argument as to how this reduces access to anyone who wants to do something a bit meaningful. I have no doubt it may put off a lot of people of middling intelligence who never would have got anywhere near a "university" when the obtaining of a degree actually counted for something from reading X-Factor studies at the university of West Rutland; but that is a good thing.

Edited 12 December, 2010 by benjii

[Jonnyboy]

So now we are outraged at hypothetical changes to the system which the ConDems haven't even invented yet?

 

Im not outraged but whats to stop any political party tinkering with the way it is repaid in the future? Another reason a nurse on 22K should be worried for the future.

[Smirking_Saint]

whats to stop the goalposts being moved in the future?

 

What if they remove the tuition fees in the future ?? What if they give everyone honorary degrees ??

 

Whats your point ?

 

Have you ever even seen a University ?

[Saintandy666]

Viking Warrior, I was not suggesting anything of the kind. Police who get attacked should attack back. However, you were not there on thursday when I saw police indiscriminately attacking protesters who had done nothing wrong, should they just stand there doing nothing back?

 

I also want to say that I do not condone the actions of the one student who swung from the cenotaph union flag, but if you want to associate all students with one rich spoilt kid high on LSD, by all means go for it!

[dune]

It is really pleasing to see the left wingers so miserable. Now they know how we felt during 13 dark years under the cloud of the Socialist nanny state. What makes it all the sweeter is that the Liberal Democrats have been so helpful.

 

BTW where have all the Liberal supporting posters gone?

[Thedelldays]

I am still to find a sound arguement as to how this is unfair on the poorest?

 

Surely, this new system will give access to uni to more people who would never have had the money in the first place?

[dune]

Viking Warrior, I was not suggesting anything of the kind. Police who get attacked should attack back. However, you were not there on thursday when I saw police indiscriminately attacking protesters who had done nothing wrong, should they just stand there doing nothing back?

 

Do you have any evidence of these indiscrimate attacks?

 

With respect I don't believe you.

[Smirking_Saint]

Viking Warrior, I was not suggesting anything of the kind. Police who get attacked should attack back. However, you were not there on thursday when I saw police indiscriminately attacking protesters who had done nothing wrong, should they just stand there doing nothing back?

 

I also want to say that I do not condone the actions of the one student who swung from the cenotaph union flag, but if you want to associate all students with one rich spoilt kid high on LSD, by all means go for it!

 

If you were a police officer, after 2 violent protests that have been very widely publicised. After seeing other police officers carted off injured and a group in the baying mob throwing missles, attempting to break into the treasury and everything else would you not be a little worried even scared ? And would you not perhaps be trying to keep the pack at bay from you ??

 

Who do you think the police are ? Robots ? I see you didn't respond to my last post when i said that.

 

These are human beings who were obviously intimidated, and as i said, if they didn't attempt to stamp control on things it could have been really really nasty, god knows what would have happened if a lone police officer slipped and became isolated in the mob.

[Saintandy666]

Do you have any evidence of these indiscrimate attacks?

 

With respect I don't believe you.

 

Well, I have my own eyes? And the eyes of many others at the protest....

[Deppo]

Well, I have my own eyes? And the eyes of many others at the protest....

 

That sounds indiscriminately violent to me - gouging out the eyes of fellow protestors.

[benjii]

I'm a bit puzzled by the polarisation of these events in the media. Could it not be the case that both the police and the protesters are a bunch of ****s?

[Saintandy666]

If you were a police officer, after 2 violent protests that have been very widely publicised. After seeing other police officers carted off injured and a group in the baying mob throwing missles, attempting to break into the treasury and everything else would you not be a little worried even scared ? And would you not perhaps be trying to keep the pack at bay from you ??

 

Who do you think the police are ? Robots ? I see you didn't respond to my last post when i said that.

 

These are human beings who were obviously intimidated, and as i said, if they didn't attempt to stamp control on things it could have been really really nasty, god knows what would have happened if a lone police officer slipped and became isolated in the mob.

 

I will reiterate what I said earlier.

 

Some of the violence of Thursday was caused by thugs who just wanted to cause violence. They turn up to every single protest and event doing so. They aren't students and have nothing to do with the cause. They are the 'usual suspects'. I condemn them.

 

Some of the violence(though I would say violence is the wrong word here, civil disobedience I prefer), was caused by people who are extremely angry at the way things have unfolded. They see the destruction of the education system before them, and think that that is the way that will best get politicians attention (and to be fair, it is... no one cared about us until the 10th got a little bit violent) . I sympathise with these people. The damage to a few windows is bad... but not nearly as bad as the damage this policy will cause to the UK.

 

And finally, some of the violence on Thursday was caused by police tactics which seemed to involve hitting people, sometimes indiscriminately, holding people for 10 hours in the freezing cold so tight they can't sit down or move and sending horses into dead ends(I experienced this)... the tactics need to change, and they were the cause of some of the violence on Thursday. Kettling makes everyone irate and scared, and as you said, the police 'are not robots'... this means in the atmosphere kettling creates they often lash out at innocent people. This culminated in the poor kid who needed brain surgery. I condemn Kettling. Leave an exit at the very least so people like me can get out... at the very least.

[Viking Warrior]

Saintandy666 No iwasnt there that is fair to say and so I cannot make a fair comment as to what did or didnt go on. i read the journos comment in an earlier post

and that seemed a fair representation . there were no doubt students and a n others who were bigging it up against the police. Yes theres some over zealous police in the Met

I remeber many years ago I got arrested for defending myself against a drunken yob , except they initialy thought I was drunk and one politely kicked me in the groin when I was in the police wagon

so Im not impressed with the way some of the act. but the protest were just ugly, sure the majority of students had embarked on a peaceful march still it only takes a few to break ranks

 

As for the cenatoph I see one the alleged culprits has said he didnt realise it was the cenotaph and is now deeply embarrassed for his actions excuse me there are permanent wreaths at the cenotaph

 

This is the son of Ian Gilmour of Pink Floyd fame. eihter he is mega thick or using a sob story

to keep him out of court. And he goes to Cambridge Uni. I hadnt realised you could still get LSD or are you showing your age Saintandy?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Saintandy666 No iwasnt there that is fair to say and so I cannot make a fair comment as to what did or didnt go on. i read the journos comment in an earlier post

and that seemed a fair representation . there were no doubt students and a n others who were bigging it up against the police. Yes theres some over zealous police in the Met

I remeber many years ago I got arrested for defending myself against a drunken yob , except they initialy thought I was drunk and one politely kicked me in the groin when I was in the police wagon

so Im not impressed with the way some of the act. but the protest were just ugly, sure the majority of students had embarked on a peaceful march still it only takes a few to break ranks

 

As for the cenatoph I see one the alleged culprits has said he didnt realise it was the cenotaph and is now deeply embarrassed for his actions excuse me there are permanent wreaths at the cenotaph

 

This is the son of Ian Gilmour of Pink Floyd fame. eihter he is mega thick or using a sob story

to keep him out of court. And he goes to Cambridge Uni. I hadnt realised you could still get LSD or are you showing your age Saintandy?

 

Son of DAVID Gilmour and anyway, he's been arrested today.

[RedAndWhite91]

Viking Warrior, I was not suggesting anything of the kind. Police who get attacked should attack back. However, you were not there on thursday when I saw police indiscriminately attacking protesters who had done nothing wrong, should they just stand there doing nothing back?

 

I was once indiscriminately attacked by police, I thought "sh!t that hurt, I'm not doing anything back", it's not difficult to have a little bit of restraint. If people like you had a bit of restraint then people like me would still sympathise with you, instead of getting increasingly p!ssed off with all the reactionary violence by the students, the desecration of monuments, the "it's all the police's fault" attitude said with a balaclava on holding a brick.

[Saintandy666]

I was once indiscriminately attacked by police, I thought "sh!t that hurt, I'm not doing anything back", it's not difficult to have a little bit of restraint. If people like you had a bit of restraint then people like me would still sympathise with you, instead of getting increasingly p!ssed off with all the reactionary violence by the students, the desecration of monuments, the "it's all the police's fault" attitude said with a balaclava on holding a brick.

 

I think you should read my post and then you would see that I am not simply blaming police tactics... it is certainly not the police's fault though, they are just doing their job? The tactics deployed though are stupid for reasons I have already explained several times. I used to be more towards your opinion and everyone else's opinion, but Thursday really opened my eyes and changed that.

[Deppo]

Son of DAVID Gilmour and anyway, he's been arrested today.

 

So which one was Ian Gilmour's son?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I will reiterate what I said earlier.

 

Some of the violence of Thursday was caused by thugs who just wanted to cause violence. They turn up to every single protest and event doing so. They aren't students and have nothing to do with the cause. They are the 'usual suspects'. I condemn them.

 

Some of the violence(though I would say violence is the wrong word here, civil disobedience I prefer), was caused by people who are extremely angry at the way things have unfolded. They see the destruction of the education system before them, and think that that is the way that will best get politicians attention (and to be fair, it is... no one cared about us until the 10th got a little bit violent) . I sympathise with these people. The damage to a few windows is bad... but not nearly as bad as the damage this policy will cause to the UK.

 

And finally, some of the violence on Thursday was caused by police tactics which seemed to involve hitting people, sometimes indiscriminately, holding people for 10 hours in the freezing cold so tight they can't sit down or move and sending horses into dead ends(I experienced this)... the tactics need to change, and they were the cause of some of the violence on Thursday. Kettling makes everyone irate and scared, and as you said, the police 'are not robots'... this means in the atmosphere kettling creates they often lash out at innocent people. This culminated in the poor kid who needed brain surgery. I condemn Kettling. Leave an exit at the very least so people like me can get out... at the very least.

 

As soon as a protest gets violent, whether it was the students or not, this is starting to infringe on the publics civil liberties. As soon as this happens, the protest, and the protesters have list all the rights they originally had to the protest. I was personally inconvenienced by the protest (holed up at work due to it) and so, in my opinion, the protesters can now **** off.

[Gingeletiss]

I think you should read my post and then you would see that I am not simply blaming police tactics... it is certainly not the police's fault though, they are just doing their job? The tactics deployed though are stupid for reasons I have already explained several times. I used to be more towards your opinion and everyone else's opinion, but Thursday really opened my eyes and changed that.

 

It really opened my eyes as well, it showed me, that the yoof of today have no respect whatsoever, and that you see violence as a normal action (too many bl00dy war games on PS). I will tell you now Saintandy666, you do not have any mandate for this action from the general public. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I have spoken to over the last few days, has condemned you and your ilk. Any sympathy you had for your 'cause' has gone, you are seen as nothing but yobs...how does that feel? future doctor/lawyer/politician/dentist/engineer etc etc

[RedAndWhite91]

I think you should read my post and then you would see that I am not simply blaming police tactics... it is certainly not the police's fault though, they are just doing their job? The tactics deployed though are stupid for reasons I have already explained several times. I used to be more towards your opinion and everyone else's opinion, but Thursday really opened my eyes and changed that.

 

I know but I'm just picking up on the fact the students are blaming old bill just to cover their tracks, it's that playground fight scenario where you know you'll get let off if the other person hits you first cos they started it. By making it look like the police are accountable then they think their actions are somehow justified. Some of the things that happened during those riots can never be justified.

[rocknrollman no2]

It really opened my eyes as well, it showed me, that the yoof of today have no respect whatsoever, and that you see violence as a normal action (too many bl00dy war games on PS). I will tell you now Saintandy666, you do not have any mandate for this action from the general public. Everyone, and I mean everyone, I have spoken to over the last few days, has condemned you and your ilk. Any sympathy you had for your 'cause' has gone, you are seen as nothing but yobs...how does that feel? future doctor/lawyer/politician/dentist/engineer etc etc

 

Thats funny because all of the people i have spoken to over the past week have generally supported the students and a lot of people have conceded that without the violence,the media would not have been that interested in the protests.

[Gingeletiss]

Thats funny because all of the people i have spoken to over the past week have generally supported the students and a lot of people have conceded that without the violence,the media would not have been that interested in the protests.

 

Suggest you come and talk to the grown ups then Container berth, any day will do!