Safe Standing Bill in Parliament - template letter now attached

[oxfordshire_saint]

I'm heading to Germany for football (and Christmas Markets) at the weekend. Looking forward to watching from the terrace with a pint in my hand.

 

As many have said above, it works perfectly fine out there, I've experienced it numerous times (Schalke, Gladbach, Koln, Aachen) and never had any problems. The FA and the government should speak to the DFB and gain some knowledge of how they make it work.

[angelman]

I like to sit down at half time to take the weight off my feet.

 

But....standing can be safe. It is all about limiting the numbers standing to acceptable levels rather than packing in so no one can move at all. Not that I was there, but I imagine that the 31000 at the Dell was a wee bit OTT.

[SparkySaint]

Sitting at home, Standing away. Thats how I roll

[bungle]

I've written a template letter to send to MPs and have e-mailed to Steve, so I imagine he will make available on the website today.

 

The letter calls on MPs to support this Bill getting a second reading in the HoC, as not all Private Members' Bills get a second reading. If enough MPs feel this is an important issue then there is more chance.

 

If you have a government MP (not just a Tory or Lib Dem, but one with a ministerial role - e.g. Chris Huhne) you can also ask that the government support this bill.

[djharvey]

I believe that official statistics show no more incidents at lower-league grounds with terracing than all-seater grounds. In Germany they head off any potential trouble in any case by placing the away terracing up the other end of the ground from the home end. The makeup of fans over there is not much different to that of England, but anyone after grief goes looking for it outside before or after the game. Terracing makes no difference on that score.

 

The controls on the number of fans allowed onto standing areas in the lower leagues is also much stricter than it was even ten years ago, let alone in 1989. Ironically, the nearest thing you see to a surge these days are during more intense goal celebrations (last-minute winners etc.) in seated stands, when people come into the aisles to get down to the front (mind you I like them and all, but that's not the point).

 

Safety, crowd trouble, convenience - none of the arguments against this hold any weight whatsoever.

 

If this ever got approved it would be the best solution to having our own end (seeing as the police will not allow away fans to be moved from Northam), create the safe standing in the Chapel and i am sure plenty would move there (i would) and create a great atmosphere, would prob be good to have some sort of age restriction to ensure very small children are not at risk.

[stevegrant]

Attached to this post is a template letter to send to your MP.

 

Within the letter are a number of placeholders, denoted by square brackets. Simply delete/replace as applicable and send to your MP.

 

You can find out who your MP is at http://www.writetothem.com - however, I would recommend not contacting the MP through this site, but going to their own website and contacting them through that. Most have their own site with postal and email addresses publicly visible.

Template Standing Letter.doc

[JackFrost]

While I can see the case for it there's no way they'd bring standing areas back. Even over 20 years later, the Hillsborough card will still be played en masse and be too much of an influence.

 

Hillsborough was hopelessly outdated even in '89 and what happened was a tragedy waiting to happen. With the surge of football's popularity in the 70s and 80s there was a complete failure to modernise the safety standards of stadiums back then. Hillsborough certainly wasn't the first fatal disaster in a football stadium during those times.

 

Even with modern safety standards in stadiums being in a completely different world to what they were in the late '80s the shadow of Hillsborough will remain ever present over this debate, and for a very long time to come.

[Scummer]

Would Saints be allowed to have a standing area now if they wanted one? Other league 1 grounds have terracing. Or is it a case of once you are all seater you aren't allowed to change back. I realise this would have only been a short term measure as we won't be in this division for long.

[stevegrant]

Would Saints be allowed to have a standing area now if they wanted one? Other league 1 grounds have terracing. Or is it a case of once you are all seater you aren't allowed to change back. I realise this would have only been a short term measure as we won't be in this division for long.

In League One, yes, but not in the Premier League or Championship.

 

That's another reason why the rules on "safety" are so ridiculous - apparently it's unsafe for the handful of people who turn up at the DW Stadium to watch a Premier League game to stand, and yet 2000 people packed onto a terrace at Peterborough in League One is perfectly acceptable. Either it's safe or it isn't, and if it isn't, there should be a blanket ban at all levels.

[Golden Balls]

I would love safe standing to come in.

 

Not only will the atmosphere improve massively, I think more people would be tempted to go to live games.

 

The biggest thing I would enjoy is that when mates who don't have season tickets want to come to the game, they can stand with us and not be forced into a totally different part of the ground.

 

As the post above points out, how can it be safe for some ground and not others?

[Micky]

Personally I would like to see the return of standing areas, as others have said it works well here in Germany and definitely adds to the atmosphere at the games.

 

If you look at the two most 'famous' incidents which bought about the all seater stadiums, it is interesting to note that one of the major causes in one (Heysel) was the delapidated state of the stadium (should never have been used as a final venue) and at another, Hillsborough, was again the poor state of the ground and the volume of fans that were allowed access into the Leppings Lane End.

 

In todays modern stadium, crowd and access control are a lot better monitored and the days of 'caging' fans in has gone. Yes we need to learn from such disasters and yes we need to err on the side of caution - but to simply say that standing will (or should) never return is, in my view, somewhat short-sighted. Without wishing to denegrate any of those that lost thier life or were injured in the incidents quoted, it is a fact of life that people die, in all manner of ways - aeroplanes unfortunately crash, yet millions fly daily.

 

So long as saftey was paramount - then I am all in favour of the return to standing.

 

As an aside - I also think that the consequence of Heysel (banning of English clubs from European competition) also actually cost us a place in 85.

[JRM]

Will print off that letter and send it to my MP over the weekend, good work chaps.

 

And as a side note, for those people who want to play the "it's not safe" card, it might have slipped you attention that every weekend there are SOLD OUT packed gigs / concerts where standing is still legal and people certainly bounce around and charge into each other, anyone who have seen footage of the areas in front of the stage at festivals will see more chance of a crush then you ever would at a modern football ground. I remember being at Oasis at City of Manchester stadium in 2005, ironically an all seater stadium but where the pitch is used for standing area for concerts, the start had to be delayed due to crowd control, football crowds are much easier to control (limited capacity in each stand). so it is clear to me that football is discriminated against and hopefully this bill will go someway to reversing this unfair treatment.

[bungle]

If anyone gets a reply from their MP, it would be great to post it (or at least a summary of it) in this thread.

[St_Tel49]

Poll added

 

Steve,The problem is that while I want to sit, I strongly support safe standing for those who want it both because I think choice is important and because they won't stand in areas where most people want to sit. The poll does not allow me to say that. BTW - the thumbup icon looks more like a w****r gesture

[niceandfriendly]

Steve,The problem is that while I want to sit, I strongly support safe standing for those who want it both because I think choice is important and because they won't stand in areas where most people want to sit. The poll does not allow me to say that. BTW - the thumbup icon looks more like a w****r gesture

 

Agree with this, including the part about the ****ing icon.

[JackanorySFC]

I sent my letter when I first saw this thread, got a letter back from Chris Huhne on Wednesday with a copy of the letter he sent to Parliament supporting the bill due to a "high level of request from my constituancy". Fair play to the fella I have to say....

 

I banged this out and seemed to work?

 

Dear Mr Huhne,

 

Yesterday one of your colleagues, Don Foster MP for Bath, introduced the safe standing bill to the House of Commons. As one of your constituents I implore you to support this bill with your utmost vigour.

 

I am a keen Southampton supporter, and I attend games at St Marys regularly as I did at the Dell when I was younger. Of course technically St Marys in not in our constituency but I'm sure you are aware of the depth of feeling towards our club Southampton in our borough. As well as St Marys I have attended games all over the country and in Europe. No stadium has felt safer than the grounds I have visited in Germany that have introduced safe standing many years ago.

 

Please do not confuse safe standing with the old fashioned terracing that was abundant in the 80's - it is completely different. Please take time to read the bill in full: http://www.bathlibdems.org.uk/news/000380/don_foster_mp_for_bath_introduces_the_safe_standing_bill.html and take into consideration the masses of Southampton fans that would love to have this introduced at St Marys and grounds around the country (there are few things more frustrating as a football fan than seeing the clash of elderly or very young fans struggling to see the game whilst able bodied chaps stand in front - something the current system encourages).

 

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the subject.

 

Yours sincerely,

[StVince1966]

standing for the poor and seating for the rich! just like the old days

[Nexstar]

Say the proposals were to be accepted and safe standing areas allowed across all leagues. How could st. mary's be developed to incorporate a safe standing area?

[PaulSaint]

I got a reply from my MP (George Hollingbury) today. It basically said forget it, he wanted seats to stay throughout the entire ground.

 

[JackFrost]

I got a reply from my MP (George Hollingbury) today. It basically said forget it, he wanted seats to stay throughout the entire ground.

 

 

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest

[jam]

I got a reply from my MP (George Hollingbury) today. It basically said forget it, he wanted seats to stay throughout the entire ground.

 

 

That's what you get when your MP is a bit of a fanny.

[JackanorySFC]

Obviously Chris Huhne is more of a lad than I gave him credit for previously! Got a covering letter thanking me for my email and saying enclosed is a copy of the letter he sent to the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport which he hopes I will find useful.

 

The letter attached says:

 

Dear Jeremy,

 

This is a constituancy enquiry. I have been contacted by a number of constituants regarding the Safe Standing Bill.

 

I would be grateful if you could let me know the Government's position on the safe standing Bill, standing at football grounds. I would welcome any comments you may have on the subject. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Have to say I'm slightly worried by the high level of paper it was sent on - tut tut, recessions and all that....

 

All in all though:

 

Chris Huhne = Lad!

[JackanorySFC]

I got a reply from my MP (George Hollingbury) today. It basically said forget it, he wanted seats to stay throughout the entire ground.

 

 

Stay on his case, imply he doesn't go to football and if he did and loves to sit what does he do at away games when others are stood in front of him! He's the MP for Meon Valley and a Tory so he may be playing party politics. Press him over and over 'til he gives a proper response. My letter took me 3 mins to write, become a nightmare of needed - I hate answers that aren't answers like that. Makes me sick!

 

As for Where would we introduce it at SMS.

 

Like Germany it would have to be behind one, or both the goals including the wings. The ground can be easily converted (even Lowe was up for it).

[Deppo]

The poll is a bit pointless really. I'd rather watch it from a seat, but that doesn't mean I don't support safe standing areas for others.

[St_Tel49]

I have had an encouraging response from Caroline Nokes (Romsey). My letter to her was an amended version of the template. Her reply was:

 

"Thank you for your email regarding Don Foster’s “Safe Standing” Bill. I am the first to admit I am not a regular attender at St Mary’s, but I do go occasionally and my secretary Jo is a season ticket holder and there for every home game. Like you, she is happy sitting, but has been making the point to me repeatedly that there are many people who would prefer to stand.

 

I have not received a great deal of correspondence on this Bill, but another constituent raised it with me at the start of the week, and I did have a quick look at the content and the comments made by Don Foster in support when he presented it. I certainly have no objection to his Bill, so will support it when it next comes before the House. I very much appreciate you having taken the trouble to contact me on this matter."

Edited 17 December, 2010 by St_Tel49

[St_Tel49]

Say the proposals were to be accepted and safe standing areas allowed across all leagues. How could st. mary's be developed to incorporate a safe standing area?

Simple - in the designated area(s) of the ground take the seats out, put numbered squares on the ground in their place then put a barrier all the way along the row so that people in one row cannot move from one row to another. It will cost money - but not that much.

[buctootim]

I wonder what the total capacity of SMS would be if there was standing in say 40% of the ground. Could be around 10% higher at 36,000?

[St_Tel49]

I wonder what the total capacity of SMS would be if there was standing in say 40% of the ground. Could be around 10% higher at 36,000?

In all honesty, I don't think that it would change the ground capacity. The "steps" (tiers?) would remain exactly as they are except along the front there would be a barrier and you would probably need approximately the ground area that a seat occupies to accommodate a standing person. The problem is that the space created would be in the depth of the step and I do not think that they would allow two people on the location of one seat. Or maybe they would - I am only speculating. The main thing is the choice - not the increase in capacity.

Edited 17 December, 2010 by St_Tel49

[bungle]

I got a reply from my MP (George Hollingbury) today. It basically said forget it, he wanted seats to stay throughout the entire ground.

 

 

It would be great if you could expand on the reasoning, or even better post up the response.

[JackanorySFC]

Capacity in the areas involved would increase by 50% based on the German model.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/safe-stand-on-german-evidence-694484.html

[Window Cleaner]

Capacity in the areas involved would increase by 50% based on the German model.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/safe-stand-on-german-evidence-694484.html

 

thus making football available to the masses again???

 

Old stuff I know but when you could stand at the Dell we used to get 30K+ in at affordable prices. Make it all seat and the capacity is

halved so the price had to go up.I never felt any sort of sense of danger or even inconvenience whilst standing in the Milton.

[Wilko]

For those living in the city, if may be worth bringing up a petition to the council. If you can get more than a certain number of signatures (I don't know how many, but it's probably less than 1,000 and I'm sure they bureaucrats could tell you) it has to be debated in the council chamber. The councillors can then choose to back it (among a number of other options). It won't change the law, but it would show that people care and could get the council on our side. Might be worth collecting some names outside/inside the Northam before an upcoming game to keep the ball rolling. I reckon you could probably get the required number at one game.

 

Just a thought.