up and away Posted 3 December, 2010 Posted 3 December, 2010 On the official site there is a report that a lady whose husband survived a direct hit on the air raid shelter at the the old gasworks because he went home for lunch. Eleven Saints fans were killed on Sept 26th 1940 in the shelter by the direct hit. The shelter was sited on what is now St Mary's. For years the lady's husband had tried to persuade the club to put up a plaque as a memorial to those fans but they had always refused. As soon as Nicola Cortese was made aware of the request he gave it his support culminating with Kelvin Davis presenting the plaque to the lady at the BBC Radio Solent broadcast on Tuesday night commemorating the 70th anniversary of the blitz. The plaque is to be put up at SMS. If Lowe etc, whoever was concerned, had refused this request they should be ashamed of themselves, especially as it is a Swiss citizen that is now doing what should have been done years ago. Sadly the lady's husband has passed away so was unaware that eventually his dream did come to fruition. This is totally dumb, why should anyone be ashamed? I would imagine in the 40's if all those men that died were local, they would be Saints fans. This was no supporters trust meeting that got bombed, so this is no different to all those other tragically lost lives due to war, something remembered by war memorials all across the country. I expect if you care to look their will be a lot more, even heroic deaths in Southampton during the war that never got the recognition such as this. We have seen this multiple time in the past where charities, loved ones that have passed away want the club to honour their own cause, irrespective of it's merits or significance. Well done to Cortese, but these few exceptions will never keep everybody happy. One of the whole points of having the "bricks" was precisely to cover these sort of things (yes, as well as making money).
Wes Tender Posted 3 December, 2010 Posted 3 December, 2010 This is totally dumb, why should anyone be ashamed? I would imagine in the 40's if all those men that died were local, they would be Saints fans. This was no supporters trust meeting that got bombed, so this is no different to all those other tragically lost lives due to war, something remembered by war memorials all across the country. I expect if you care to look their will be a lot more, even heroic deaths in Southampton during the war that never got the recognition such as this. We have seen this multiple time in the past where charities, loved ones that have passed away want the club to honour their own cause, irrespective of it's merits or significance. Well done to Cortese, but these few exceptions will never keep everybody happy. One of the whole points of having the "bricks" was precisely to cover these sort of things (yes, as well as making money). I have a paving stone at the front of the stadium, as do hundreds of other fans. The same applies to the bricks. The whole point of the plaque was that it should stand apart from all of those bricks and paving stones. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, we shouldn't have had the statue of Ted Bates in front of the Stadium; he ought to have had a brick too. As for Charlie Wayman's suggestion that Lowe wouldn't have had enough time to deal with this matter as he was too busy cocking-up the Stoneham project, just how long does it take to consider a request for a plaque to made? If the will had been there, I'm certain that the time would have been found to rubber-stamp it.
up and away Posted 3 December, 2010 Posted 3 December, 2010 I have a paving stone at the front of the stadium, as do hundreds of other fans. The same applies to the bricks. The whole point of the plaque was that it should stand apart from all of those bricks and paving stones. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, we shouldn't have had the statue of Ted Bates in front of the Stadium; he ought to have had a brick too. As for Charlie Wayman's suggestion that Lowe wouldn't have had enough time to deal with this matter as he was too busy cocking-up the Stoneham project, just how long does it take to consider a request for a plaque to made? If the will had been there, I'm certain that the time would have been found to rubber-stamp it. Why not take in all that was posted " merits or significance". You don't think Ted would fit in there? It's not just considering the individual case, it's all the others who feel their case has been slighted by not receiving the same attention. What you end up with then is prominence for those that shout the loudest, not the meritocracy. Saints were at the Dell for all of the 20th century, so why was no plaque attached to any of the gas works? As I said, this is hardly Saints related until we moved there 60 years later. I have no problem with anyone doing this, but cannot for the life of me see any reason why anyone of our previous chairman at St Mary's should be castigated for not doing this.
Wes Tender Posted 3 December, 2010 Posted 3 December, 2010 Well, Lowe had ideas on calling it the Hamwic Stadium, to commemorate the ancient Saxon settlement that had once stood at the St Mary's site, so he was prepared to go a bit further than a plaque or a brick there to recall an historical event connected with the stadium.
derry Posted 3 December, 2010 Author Posted 3 December, 2010 Why not take in all that was posted " merits or significance". You don't think Ted would fit in there? It's not just considering the individual case, it's all the others who feel their case has been slighted by not receiving the same attention. What you end up with then is prominence for those that shout the loudest, not the meritocracy. Saints were at the Dell for all of the 20th century, so why was no plaque attached to any of the gas works? As I said, this is hardly Saints related until we moved there 60 years later. I have no problem with anyone doing this, but cannot for the life of me see any reason why anyone of our previous chairman at St Mary's should be castigated for not doing this. Refusing the request to commemorate the deaths that happened on the stadium site when asked, is what brings criticism. The right thing to do was allocate a site for the plaque as near as possible to the site of the shelter. Comparing it with other sites is irrelevant as it is a request that applies only to SMS and only really became relevant when the stadium was built.
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 7 December, 2010 Posted 7 December, 2010 although the lady in question was only 8 at the time and probably didn't even know the men concerned at the time of the bombing. Still good to see that all the years of campaigning have got a result although I'm sure it's the spot that's more important than the fact that it's SFC.My old grandad worked at the gas works for 40 odd years,I know a lot of people were extremely attached to it. I was really attached to the gas works at one time. It was a right drag getting home for tea. Mind you, the lines of coke were something else.
Deppo Posted 7 December, 2010 Posted 7 December, 2010 Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, we shouldn't have had the statue of Ted Bates in front of the Stadium; he ought to have had a brick too. He did have a brick but the guy they initially hired to do the engraving didn't do a very good job:
Golden Balls Posted 8 December, 2010 Posted 8 December, 2010 (edited) Shame this thread got hijacked. Mrs Ellery is my grandmother as you may have seen on 1 or 2 other threads. My Granddad was my hero and this was his wish! He never wanted it to be a big public thing, just something to be there to remember his friends that died that day, on that site. And yes, all of them were Saints fans. SMS is a big part of Southampton, the blitz were a big part of Southamptons history, the Blitz killed 11 Saints fans exactly where SMS now stands, all he wanted was a small plaque somewhere just to remember his friends in a place where they were killed during a pivotal part of Southamptons history, where now stands a pivotal part of it's future. the lady is 78 according to the article, that would make her 8 in 1940.So she must have married someone who was involved at a much later date.I don't know all the facts, someone surely does.Mr Ellery must have been about 14 at that time. 8 ?? she was married to someone who worked at the gas works ! There was 7 years age gap between them. He was 15, a normal age to be working back then. I've read somewhere today that Lowe responded to a letter campaign from the womans husband,when still alive, with a letter telling him to buy one of the message bricks. This is true. My Grandfather wrote him a letter (in fact wrote him a few letters as it took a while to get any sort of aknowledgement) I also wrote him a letter. The response we got was to buy a brick as the club didn't want to pay for a plaque. My Grandfather replied offering to pay any costs but never heard anything back. I actually drafted a letter to Markus and Nicola in January but never got round to sending it. Unfortunately my Grandfather passed away, as did Markus. The BBC got wind of this story when asking my Grandmother to relay memories from 70 years ago. They went out of there way to make this happen, no one asked them to. Thank you BBC Solent, SFC, Nicola, and Kelvin Davis. Edited 8 December, 2010 by Golden Balls
hypochondriac Posted 8 December, 2010 Posted 8 December, 2010 He did have a brick but the guy they initially hired to do the engraving didn't do a very good job: One of the few things you have written I found genuinely amusing. Congrats.
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 December, 2010 Posted 8 December, 2010 Shame this thread got hijacked. Mrs Ellery is my grandmother as you may have seen on 1 or 2 other threads. My Granddad was my hero and this was his wish! He never wanted it to be a big public thing, just something to be there to remember his friends that died that day, on that site. And yes, all of them were Saints fans. SMS is a big part of Southampton, the blitz were a big part of Southamptons history, the Blitz killed 11 Saints fans exactly where SMS now stands, all he wanted was a small plaque somewhere just to remember his friends in a place where they were killed during a pivotal part of Southamptons history, where now stands a pivotal part of it's future. There was 7 years age gap between them. He was 15, a normal age to be working. This is true. My Grandfather wrote him a letter (in fact wrote him a few letters as it took a while to get any sort of aknowledgement) I also wrote him a letter. The response we got was to buy a brick as the club didn't want to pay for a plaque. My Grandfather replied offering to pay any costs but never heard anything back. I actually drafted a letter to Markus and Nicola in January but never got round to sending it. Unfortunately my Grandfather passed away, as did Markus. The BBC got wind of this story when asking my Grandmother to relay memories from 70 years ago. They went out of there way to make this happen, no one asked them to. Thank you BBC Solent, SFC, Nicola, and Kelvin Davis. I apologise if i was in any part involved in the hijacking. I am glad your grandfather has now been granted his wishes.
Golden Balls Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 The plaque is now in place. We were very shocked at where they put it. We were expecting it in the corner of a quiet room but it's on the front of the stadium next to the guest enterance. Go a take a look if you're passing by http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-12449171
NickG Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 good story , club clearly heading in right direction to be centre of community, just need promotion!
hypochondriac Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Fantastic bit of pr although a nice gesture obviously.
aintforever Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Nice gesture, well done Nicola and the club.
carljack Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Lots of people reckon the Whole area is cursed,this may go someway to improving the "Karma",nice one !
MarkSFC Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 greats stuff. will the Echo carry the story....will it make local tv news?!!
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Fantastic bit of pr although a nice gesture obviously. You really are a disgusting oik
rpb Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 My uncle (R.I.P) was a fireman stationed at St Marys during the 2nd WW. So was my Dad!
Thedelldays Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Fantastic bit of pr although a nice gesture obviously. you really are full of it
dune Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 You really are a disgusting oik You leave my mate alone or i'll set Delldays on you.
docker-p Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 You really are a disgusting oik Oh get over yourself you big girls blouse. It is a good bit of PR for NC whether it was meant to be or not.
dune Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Fantastic bit of pr although a nice gesture obviously. i've been a **** day in day out for years and you're hated more than me. how the **** do you do it? PM me with some tips coz i don't like you muscling in on my patch.
dune Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Oh get over yourself you big girls blouse. It is a good bit of PR for NC whether it was meant to be or not. Yeh it is but before you start on other posters you posted something really bad not so long back and we both fell out over it.
um pahars Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 Really nice to hear/see that. Will have to have a look the next time I pop down to SMS. Good work from those who kept the faith with getting something done (despite the knockbacks) and well done to the Club for a nice gesture. Cost minimal, effort minimal, reward intangible.
Deppo Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 i've been a **** day in day out for years and you're hated more than me. how the **** do you do it? PM me with some tips coz i don't like you muscling in on my patch. He's a nasty ****, whereas you just aren't very clever. People laugh at you. And that's not a flippant answer. That's honestly how it is.
dune Posted 15 February, 2011 Posted 15 February, 2011 He's a nasty ****, whereas you just aren't very clever. People laugh at you. And that's not a flippant answer. That's honestly how it is. Well me and hypo have had a major fallout when i gave him a free ticket (advertised it for anyone of my forum gang) and he was straight in there. Then a few weeks later he's on a thread slagging me off. I was livid. Plus saint jason is a friend of a friend and was livid about that too.
Saint Fan CaM Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Back to the OP - great gesture by the club and best wishes to the family.
Smirking_Saint Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 i've been a **** day in day out for years and you're hated more than me. how the **** do you do it? PM me with some tips coz i don't like you muscling in on my patch. Because your not a very good troll, and slightly mental. Hypo is an utter utter pompous tw*t and probably exactly the same in real life
Foxstone Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 My god we really do have some cynics who would baulk at giving the club credit for anything right now ! Risible really.. Anyway - Its a great gesture well made and congratulations to everybody who made this happen.
paris Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Its a great gesture well made and congratulations to everybody who made this happen.
The9 Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Nice gesture by the club, but if there wasn't a football ground on the site now would anyone have put up a plaque about it ? Are there commemorative plaques all around Southampton for all of the other people killed in bombing during the war ? Even if there are, does that make them some way special - it's not like they were off fighting or anything. Tragic, but there's a lot of that during wars, especially that one. Also, for "10 Saints fans died" should we not be saying "10 people who were in Southampton and may or may not have had an interest in the football club" or have we just assumed that everyone loved football then ?
Nexstar Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Nice gesture by the club, but if there wasn't a football ground on the site now would anyone have put up a plaque about it ? Are there commemorative plaques all around Southampton for all of the other people killed in bombing during the war ? Even if there are, does that make them some way special - it's not like they were off fighting or anything. Tragic, but there's a lot of that during wars, especially that one. Also, for "10 Saints fans died" should we not be saying "10 people who were in Southampton and may or may not have had an interest in the football club" or have we just assumed that everyone loved football then ? Why, on Earth, does it matter?
The9 Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 Why, on Earth, does it matter? Why didn't they try and get a plaque put up in the 60 years between the incident and the football club building the ground ? Were they not important then too ? The relatives have been trying "for years" to get this to happen, but the ground wasn't even there until 2001, who were they asking before that ? Are we now to assume that anyone who has ever lost a relative is now able to bother private companies about memorial plaques with the threat of bad publicity hanging over them if they decide that actually, it's just not that important in the big scheme of things, and it's not their responsibilty anyway ? Or are we as a society just going to carry on down this abhorrent route of using emotional blackmail as a means to achieve goals and being seen to do what's right for all the wrong reasons ? Like I said, fair enough that the club's chosen to do it, it's their property and they can do what they want - but why now after all this time ? It also seems a pretty spurious premise unless you accept that every civilian killed in wartime should have this kind of memorial.
Golden Balls Posted 16 February, 2011 Posted 16 February, 2011 (edited) Nice gesture by the club, but if there wasn't a football ground on the site now would anyone have put up a plaque about it ? Are there commemorative plaques all around Southampton for all of the other people killed in bombing during the war ? Even if there are, does that make them some way special - it's not like they were off fighting or anything. Tragic, but there's a lot of that during wars, especially that one. Also, for "10 Saints fans died" should we not be saying "10 people who were in Southampton and may or may not have had an interest in the football club" or have we just assumed that everyone loved football then ? Yes there was a form of memorial on the site before the ground was built. Some of them did serve the country during the war (front line) however when this direct hit occured, they were serving the country in a different form. Everyone had a duty. My Granddad (who was one of the men who worked with all the men killed, and the only surviver who worked that day) used to regularly watch/discuss Saints with all of them and knew them (and their families) very well. They were very close. They were ALL Saints fans. Edited 16 February, 2011 by Golden Balls
The9 Posted 17 February, 2011 Posted 17 February, 2011 Yes there was a form of memorial on the site before the ground was built.. In that case it makes a lot more sense, fair enough to replace something which already marked the spot.
hypochondriac Posted 17 February, 2011 Posted 17 February, 2011 Well me and hypo have had a major fallout when i gave him a free ticket (advertised it for anyone of my forum gang) and he was straight in there. Then a few weeks later he's on a thread slagging me off. I was livid. Plus saint jason is a friend of a friend and was livid about that too. I did apologise about that dune but honestly that wasn't me it was a mate logged into my account.
hypochondriac Posted 17 February, 2011 Posted 17 February, 2011 Also extremely easy to get a bite on here. It is a good bit of PR for the club though, I imagine if the clubs PR advisers were asked about this they would have jumped at the chance. That's all I was saying. Now all we need is NC to put the club before his personal feelings towards club legends and everything will be great.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now