Band on The Run - ITV now

[Big John]

Nice surprise just sat here whiling away the hours. As a massive Beatkes fan and subsequently a Lennon lovie, I doff my cap to macca for this great album.

 

Nb

Personally, and based on meeting the bloke, I don;t quite get the blind poplularity of the bloke, only pipped to least favourite Beatle by that schyster Thomas the tank Richard Starkey - knobcheese of the highest order.

[moon monkey]

I look forward to the documentary on 'the making of the frog chorous.'

[Hamilton Saint]

Nice surprise just sat here whiling away the hours. As a massive Beatkes fan and subsequently a Lennon lovie, I doff my cap to macca for this great album.

 

Nb

Personally, and based on meeting the bloke, I don;t quite get the blind poplularity of the bloke, only pipped to least favourite Beatle by that schyster Thomas the tank Richard Starkey - knobcheese of the highest order.

 

 

A good album, compared to some of the other dross that McCartney released as a solo artist. Because of that, however, it is over-rated, in my opinion. Still, several good tracks on there.

 

And I don't uderstand how a "Beatkes fan" could have such a negative view of Ringo. He - and the others in the band - paid their dues over a long and exhausting decade. Nothing but respect from me - despite any failings he might show (nobody's oerfect, eh?!).

[Lord Duckhunter]

I dont understand why PMc gets stick for dross and yet Lennon gets away with it. That Double Fantasy album contains some of the worst musik I've ever heard. The whole Beatles solo work is patchy at best with some great stuff thrown in. Even Ringo's "it dont come easy" and "photograph" would not sound out of place on a Beatles album.

 

As for "Band on the Run", it's a pretty decent album, personally I preferred "Venus and Mars" or "Tug of War", but none of them were ever going to match what they did in the 60's.

[Hamilton Saint]

I dont understand why PMc gets stick for dross and yet Lennon gets away with it. That Double Fantasy album contains some of the worst musik I've ever heard. The whole Beatles solo work is patchy at best with some great stuff thrown in. Even Ringo's "it dont come easy" and "photograph" would not sound out of place on a Beatles album.

 

As for "Band on the Run", it's a pretty decent album, personally I preferred "Venus and Mars" or "Tug of War", but none of them were ever going to match what they did in the 60's.

 

Well, your assumption is wrong. Lennon "doesn't get away with it". I think it's generally acknowledged that the solo work of all four former Beatles is wildly uneven. Lennon's too.

 

When you refer to the music on Double Fantasy, do you mean John's, Yoko's or both?

[dronskisaint]

Heard a quote when George died that the Beatles were dying in the wrong order...as far as talent goes I agree - Ringo has a long life to look forward to

 

As far as the Lennon v McCartney question....Macca produced all that was good of his when inspired by Lennon - even competitively shortly after the break up & has mostly produced pop-pap ever since. Lennon's music will, however, live forever...with the exception of some of the Yoko wailing stuff I do grant you....although some of the stuff she inspired compensates for that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Well, your assumption is wrong. Lennon "doesn't get away with it". I think it's generally acknowledged that the solo work of all four former Beatles is wildly uneven. Lennon's too.

 

When you refer to the music on Double Fantasy, do you mean John's, Yoko's or both?

 

John's on that album, Yoko's isn't bad, certainly better than anything else she's ever done (not that that's very hard). Beautiful Boy is just embaressing if you ask me.

 

I liked some of his solo stuff, the plastic ono band album is a work of genius and New York City is one of my fav songs. But most of his solo stuff was over produced and Double Fantasy was just sentimental pap, something Paul's always been accussed of writting.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Heard a quote when George died that the Beatles were dying in the wrong order...as far as talent goes I agree - Ringo has a long life to look forward to

 

As far as the Lennon v McCartney question....Macca produced all that was good of his when inspired by Lennon - even competitively shortly after the break up & has mostly produced pop-pap ever since.

 

George was great, but he wasn't in the same class as a musican or songwritter compared to Paul.Even Lennon in his Jann Wenner interview in which he conducts a character assassination on Paul claims that him and Paul were "the best" and that George learnt from them. People forget what a brilliant musician McCartney is/was, a great drummer as well as keyboards, bass and guiter and other instruments. Listen to Maybe I'm amazed where he plays all the instruments, or Ballad of John and Yoko, where he plays everything except lead, including drums. In fact it was to thank him for his work on that song that John named him as a co-writter on Give Peace a chance.

 

Personally, I dont accept your second point. Lennon and Harrison's decent solo stuff was done shortly after the break up, but Paul's (apart from a couple of songs on the first album) was poor and didn't get better until he got the Beatles out of his system. Band on the run being his first decent solo album and that was his 5th one.

Edited 26 November, 2010 by Lord Duckhunter

[amsterdam]

George was great, but he wasn't in the same class as a musican or songwritter compared to Paul.Even Lennon in his Jann Wenner interview in which he conducts a character assassination on Paul claims that him and Paul were "the best" and that George learnt from them. People forget what a brilliant musician McCartney is/was, a great drummer as well as keyboards, bass and guiter and other instruments. Listen to Maybe I'm amazed where he plays all the instruments, or Ballad of John and Yoko, where he plays everything except lead, including drums. In fact it was to thank him for his work on that song that John named him as a co-writter on Give Peace a chance.

 

Personally, I dont accept your second point. Lennon and Harrison's decent solo stuff was done shortly after the break up, but Paul's (apart from a couple of songs on the first album) was poor and didn't get better until he got the Beatles out of his system. Band on the run being his first decent solo album and that was his 5th one.

 

Hmmmm..... Agree George was great! He wasn't as "prolific" as Lennon or McCartney, but his output was generally top-drawer - Taxman, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Something, Here Comes The Sun to name but a few. And there's stuff on All Things Must Pass which would have made any Beatles album; I don't agree that he "learnt" from L&M - I think it was just Lennon being Lennon - I think the truth was that they didn't give George's efforts enough attention and he (George) wasn't assertive enough.

 

I can sort of see where you're going with your second paragraph (Plastic Ono Band and All Things Must Pass are both genius) but Macca had Ram, which is an excellent album - Too Many People, Dear Boy, Back Seat Of My Car, etc.

 

To paraphrase NA, to be honest, at the end of the day, if the boys had stayed in the building, we could have got 3 or 4 more out of the game.

[dronskisaint]

George was great, but he wasn't in the same class as a musican or songwritter compared to Paul.Even Lennon in his Jann Wenner interview in which he conducts a character assassination on Paul claims that him and Paul were "the best" and that George learnt from them. People forget what a brilliant musician McCartney is/was, a great drummer as well as keyboards, bass and guiter and other instruments. Listen to Maybe I'm amazed where he plays all the instruments, or Ballad of John and Yoko, where he plays everything except lead, including drums. In fact it was to thank him for his work on that song that John named him as a co-writter on Give Peace a chance.

 

Personally, I dont accept your second point. Lennon and Harrison's decent solo stuff was done shortly after the break up, but Paul's (apart from a couple of songs on the first album) was poor and didn't get better until he got the Beatles out of his system. Band on the run being his first decent solo album and that was his 5th one.

 

I respect your opinion...it's difficult to criticise what I consider the finest band to have graced my lifetime but McCartney's offerings post Beatles have been largely commercial & lacking in depth as compared with Lennons'. 'Maybe I'm amazed' (Denny Laine played lead incidently) & 'Let me roll it' stand out as having learnt something in all those years but whilst quantity is there there is a lack of quality. If he'd lived then we could be having the same conversation about Lennon's later work...& however schmaltzy 'Beautiful Boy' may be compare it with 'Mary had a little lamb', 'Ebony & ivory', 'Frogs chorus',...do I need to go on?

 

I'm an avid Beatles fan - it's difficult to fault much of the material & I do appreciate that many of the 'Another Lennon & McCartney original' tracks were written independently but with the background of all that was that period in time..conflicts, world domination & all. I guess I'm just disappointed in McCartney since...Harrison improved, Lennon produced the Imagine & the 'Working class hero album' for want of a title plus some mixed stuff on Walls & Bridges, Mind Games, Some Time in NYC etc &, for me, hit artistic heights that McCartney never came close to. Double Fantasy was a toe back in the water...so incredibly sad that he never got to go further.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I respect your opinion...it's difficult to criticise what I consider the finest band to have graced my lifetime but McCartney's offerings post Beatles have been largely commercial & lacking in depth as compared with Lennons'. 'Maybe I'm amazed' (Denny Laine played lead incidently)

 

 

Denny Laine hooked up with Paul after the first original album, apart from a few vocals from Linda, Paul played every instrument on every track. Laine played on the later live version, but even then I'm pretty sure it was Jimmy McCulloch who played the lead. The original and best version was all Paul.

 

Music is obviously a personal thing to everyone, but I just find Lennon's solo stuff over produced. The Plastic Ono album is great and had Imagine been produced in the same raw way it would have been a much better album.

 

I think Paul gets a bad press compared to John. Maybe because of the type of person he is and maybe because John got shot, but Lennon did some terrible rubbish and spouted a load of nonsense with Yoko. Yet could do no wrong, some of his "protests" ie the Hanratty thing and being interviewed in a bag, were just embaressing self promotion.I dont much listen to any of their solo stuff now, there's just too much dross, from all 4 of them.I read an interview with one of Wings once (can't remember who it was) but they said "how do you tell Paul McCartney he's written a poor song?", and I think they all suffered from that a bit. Lennon and McCartney could tell each other "that was poor", but how could Denny Laine or Klaus Voorman? Take George Martin out of the mix as well, and you can see why they couldn't match what came before (who could?)

 

On a seperate note I feel that all musicans should be forced to retire at 50. Seeing one of my favourites Leon Russel, shuffling onto stage holding a walking stick to play with Elton John on BBC 4 the other night finally convinced me of it. As for Mick and Keith, they're just getting a bit cringeworthy now.Let's leave us old fossils to listen to the guys in their prime and let the youngsters do the live performances.

[dronskisaint]

Denny Laine hooked up with Paul after the first original album, apart from a few vocals from Linda, Paul played every instrument on every track. Laine played on the later live version, but even then I'm pretty sure it was Jimmy McCulloch who played the lead. The original and best version was all Paul.

 

Music is obviously a personal thing to everyone, but I just find Lennon's solo stuff over produced. The Plastic Ono album is great and had Imagine been produced in the same raw way it would have been a much better album.

 

I think Paul gets a bad press compared to John. Maybe because of the type of person he is and maybe because John got shot, but Lennon did some terrible rubbish and spouted a load of nonsense with Yoko. Yet could do no wrong, some of his "protests" ie the Hanratty thing and being interviewed in a bag, were just embaressing self promotion.I dont much listen to any of their solo stuff now, there's just too much dross, from all 4 of them.I read an interview with one of Wings once (can't remember who it was) but they said "how do you tell Paul McCartney he's written a poor song?", and I think they all suffered from that a bit. Lennon and McCartney could tell each other "that was poor", but how could Denny Laine or Klaus Voorman? Take George Martin out of the mix as well, and you can see why they couldn't match what came before (who could?)

 

On a seperate note I feel that all musicans should be forced to retire at 50. Seeing one of my favourites Leon Russel, shuffling onto stage holding a walking stick to play with Elton John on BBC 4 the other night finally convinced me of it. As for Mick and Keith, they're just getting a bit cringeworthy now.Let's leave us old fossils to listen to the guys in their prime and let the youngsters do the live performances.

 

I can't really do other than agree to differ on Lennon v Mc Cartney...I don't know if you saw the documentary about the making of 'Plastic Ono Band'? Same series as the BotR I think - I learnt a lot about Ringo's drumming ability that I hadn't known before - Lennon famously said that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles but his faith in him to lay down the backing as he saw fit belies this as a bit of caustic throwaway humour.Interesting that you see Imagine as over-produced yet Lennon gave this one to Phil Spector. As I/you said it's just different perspectives - I just count myself privileged to grow up in that era in the same way as I feel lucky to have been around to see the first ever Div 1 promotion for Saints.

 

I'm sure you're right about Denny Laine - I was going by having seen him perform it live & that the single was also live. I was taken by the girl friend of the time along in an effort to educate me towards McCartney...that worked well! Wings in the early days were pretty musically embarrassing as I recall but he maintains he was doing it for him, Linda & nobody else...likewise the Lennon/Yoko stuff although Lennon would maintain he was doing the bag-ins & bed-ins to highlight a plea for world peace. Embarrassing but well-intentioned naivety!

 

I mostly agree re the retirement...my nieces in Canada had me green with envy in seeing Leonard Cohen recently...I've seen some DVDs of the last tour & they were outstanding in their brilliance. I think (some) singer/songwriters maybe carry it off better than bands.

[Hamilton Saint]

On a seperate note I feel that all musicans should be forced to retire at 50. Seeing one of my favourites Leon Russel, shuffling onto stage holding a walking stick to play with Elton John on BBC 4 the other night finally convinced me of it. As for Mick and Keith, they're just getting a bit cringeworthy now.Let's leave us old fossils to listen to the guys in their prime and let the youngsters do the live performances.

 

Obviously a ridiculous attitude! Just to pick one example from musicians I've seen performing live recently, Richard Thompson is aged 61 and is still writing great songs and, more importantly, playing amazing acoustic AND electric guitar in concert.

 

Muddy Waters won grammy awards in 1977, 1978 AND 1979 at the age of 62, 63 and 64.

 

Leopold Stokowski conducted a symphony orchestra at the age of 91 and was still recording classical albums in his mid-90s.

 

John Lee Hooker opend his own night club - performing there - in his mid-80s.

 

Johnny Cash recorded some of his most-acclaimed albums (the American series) in his 60s.

 

etc., etc.

 

 

P.S. I just read the previous post - how could I have forgotten Leonard Cohen? Superb performances every night in his recent, gruelling world tour in his mid-70s.

Edited 29 November, 2010 by Hamilton Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

The retirement line was a bit tongue in check . I had the pleasure of seeing Johnny Cash at the Albert Hall in about '94. However for every Cash there is the Chuck Berry gig, seen at the BIC around the same time, when he did 25 mins and then ****ed off without an encore. I've also seen Paul Simon in fine form,but I find 65 year old Roger Daltrey singing "hope I die before I get old" a bit weird, and as I said I think Mick and Keith should call it a day. I just felt that all though well meaning, Elton John parading a clearly unwell Leon Russell ( a hero of mine) on BBC 4 a bit distasteful.

 

Back to the Beatles and argueing over who was better is like argueing over Mick Channon, Matt Le Tiss or Terry Paine, all were great but it just boils down to personal taste.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Yesterday was the 9th annivesary of George's passing, I cant believe I posted last night and forgot (it's not that I'm an anorak, but he died on my daughters 1st birthday and she was 10 yesterday).

 

I found this fantastic clip of him on Youtube, playing with his mates (what a band) and really enjoying himself. You also get the added bonus of a glimpse of rock and rolls greatest pair of tits and ass, Claudia Lennear.

 

Enjoy and RIP George.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwVAvnYKLJE&feature=related

[dronskisaint]

'Yesterday was the 9th annivesary of George's passing'

 

'All things must pass'

 

Agree on the sadness (& the tits & ass) - I listened to Clapton talking about the 'Wilburys'...he said it was the most fun any of them had experienced particularly when they were just jamming in rehearsals.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Clapton's off his head in the Bangladesh concert.If you haven't got it the DVD is well worth buying, a must for all Beatles and 60's/70's music fans.

[Hamilton Saint]

Clapton's off his head in the Bangladesh concert.If you haven't got it the DVD is well worth buying, a must for all Beatles and 60's/70's music fans.

 

Even better is Concert For George. Produced by Clapton. Good performances and the sound is great. A moving tribute to Harrison.

[exile on main street]

“You have to be a bastard to make it, and that's a fact. And the Beatles are the biggest bastards on earth.” John Lennon.

 

Can't really see why anyone would be surprised that Lennon, McCartney, Harrison and Starr all had their "arsehole" moments.

 

The Beatles were a band who, like all great bands, were greater than the sum of their parts. After the split, none of them ever reached the artistic heights they had previously, although they all produced great work (albeit sporadically). They all produced some appalling cack as well ("Sometime In New York City", "Give My Regards to Broad Street", "33 1/3", "Old Wave").

 

"Heard a quote when George died that the Beatles were dying in the wrong order...as far as talent goes I agree - Ringo has a long life to look forward to"

 

You take that back, young man. Ringo is/was a brilliant drummer.

[hamster]

I remember around the time of Live Aid that there was a rumour that McCartney had said he was really looking forward to The Beatles reforming. Another quote came form Yoko that she was really looking forward to splitting them up again.