a one-man band..

[david in sweden]

was the not-so-polite observation of someone last season when it seemed that Ricky Lambert was the only regular goalscorer through the season. ** Memories of Ron Davies' legendary efforts in the late 1960's when he scored over 50% of our goals during one year.

 

Now that we see that former Saint Bradley Wright-Phillips is leading scorer in L1, but a closer look at Argyle's goals for shows that his 10 goals are exactly half of Plymouths goal tally this season - so far. (No one else has more than 3 ..and not so many of them, either).

 

Very few strikers can maintain a regular strike rate all season, (though Ricky never went more than 3 games without scoring last season,)but if BWP can't maintain his form, then Plymouth may be in line for a drab winter. Ironically, if he does continue, he'll certainly be target for someone to buy come January......and before you say it..NO! . I'm not recommending him. I know he was popular with a section of the fan base, but IMHO he was never more than an average player, and scored many of his goals coming on a sub. and we still had better after he left.

 

Maybe Ricky isn't on form at present, so it's comforting to know that we have a few others able to net regularly. My only remaining question is the one I had on August 31st...namely WHY hadn't we bought someone as cover for Ricky? ...it was the most obvious thing to do, and I 'm not calling that hindsight!

[dubai_phil]

In fact it was obvious one year ago leading into LAST January's transfer window that we needed cover for Rickie.

 

Our other forwards are different style/size, it isn't just about the goals it is about the way the team plays (stick Crouch or Carroll up front for England and they play hoofball, Defoe/Rooney they pass until they lose the ball)

 

It was a cover position, so it would have suited a youngster such as Patterson (not necessarily him) but what (IMHO) we needed then AND now is someone who plays the same way.

 

Barnard & Connolly are two small and need ball played in to feet in or around the box, Rickie gave us that other option when he used to jump for the ball (higher than this season's reports)

[david in sweden]

In fact it was obvious one year ago leading into LAST January's transfer window that we needed cover for Rickie.

 

Our other forwards are different style/size, it isn't just about the goals it is about the way the team plays (stick Crouch or Carroll up front for England and they play hoofball, Defoe/Rooney they pass until they lose the ball)

 

It was a cover position, so it would have suited a youngster such as Patterson (not necessarily him) but what (IMHO) we needed then AND now is someone who plays the same way.

 

Barnard & Connolly are two small and need ball played in to feet in or around the box, Rickie gave us that other option when he used to jump for the ball (higher than this season's reports)

 

good observations phil,

PLUS, Ricky is the best dead-ball specialist we've had since MLT, though I wouldn't put him in the same class, of course.

[Barry the Badger]

good observations phil,

PLUS, Ricky is the best dead-ball specialist we've had since MLT, though I wouldn't put him in the same class, of course.

 

Gareth Bale

[david in sweden]

Gareth Bale

 

maybe I could argue that, but he ( Bale) was with us such a short time that it scarcely feels like it. Specatclular though he was

he didn't have a huge goal tally though.

 

Of course Ricky is an ace penalty specialist , too ..(hence the MLT comment - has he missed one yet ?)

 

Actually I didn't want to get hung up on the dead ball comment, but was more interested in the one man goalscorer phenomenon.

I thought that 1997-98 was a fun season when we had FOUR strikers who all got around 10 each. (MLT, Hirst, Östenstad and Kevin Davies.)that evened it out a bit.

Edited 19 November, 2010 by david in sweden

[NickG]

was the not-so-polite observation of someone last season when it seemed that Ricky Lambert was the only regular goalscorer through the season. ** Memories of Ron Davies' legendary efforts in the late 1960's when he scored over 50% of our goals during one year.

 

Now that we see that former Saint Bradley Wright-Phillips is leading scorer in L1, but a closer look at Argyle's goals for shows that his 10 goals are exactly half of Plymouths goal tally this season - so far. (No one else has more than 3 ..and not so many of them, either).

 

Very few strikers can maintain a regular strike rate all season, (though Ricky never went more than 3 games without scoring last season,)but if BWP can't maintain his form, then Plymouth may be in line for a drab winter. Ironically, if he does continue, he'll certainly be target for someone to buy come January......and before you say it..NO! . I'm not recommending him. I know he was popular with a section of the fan base, but IMHO he was never more than an average player, and scored many of his goals coming on a sub. and we still had better after he left.

 

Maybe Ricky isn't on form at present, so it's comforting to know that we have a few others able to net regularly. My only remaining question is the one I had on August 31st...namely WHY hadn't we bought someone as cover for Ricky? ...it was the most obvious thing to do, and I 'm not calling that hindsight!

 

although Lallana also got 20 (which is more than our top scorer normally gets). Lallana didn't start the season at last season's levels either so another big difference this season.

Barnard got 9 and Papa 11.

[Turkish]

maybe I could argue that, but he ( Bale) was with us such a short time that it scarcely feels like it. Specatclular though he was

he didn't have a huge goal tally though.

 

Of course Ricky is an ace penalty specialist , too ..(hence the MLT comment - has he missed one yet ?)

 

Actually I didn't want to get hung up on the dead ball comment, but was more interested in the one man goalscorer phenomenon.

I thought that 1997-98 was a fun season when we had FOUR strikers who all got around 10 each. (MLT, Hirst, Östenstad and Kevin Davies.)that evened it out a bit.

 

not as fun as 89/90 when we had Le Tissler and Wallace both getting near or over 20 with Shearer and Rideout weighing in with a few too. 4-2-4 formation playing some sensational football.

 

ON another note people seem to be hung up on "cover" yet again. We dont need cover we need options. Look at all the top clubs, do Man Utd have a Rooney clone? DO Chelsea have another Drogba kicking his heels on the bench hoping for an injury so he can get a game, Spurs have Crouch, Defoe, Pavleyckenko and Keane, 4 very different strikers who get picked depending on the opposition and way Spurs are going to play. Adkins has said quite rightly, he wants us to be able to play different styles of play so there is no point having a poor mans Lambert to come of the bench for 15 minutes (who everyone will just slag off as being sh*t anyway if we did have one) If it was me i'd be looking for a quick, tricky striker too offer something different,que comments of Papa Waigo, get over it.

[NickG]

Gareth Bale

 

scored total of 5 goals for us.

[stevegrant]

although Lallana also got 20 (which is more than our top scorer normally gets). Lallana didn't start the season at last season's levels either so another big difference this season.

Barnard got 9 and Papa 11.

From less than half a season, and only playing two thirds of most games, getting substituted on 63 minutes, much to my annoyance

[david in sweden]

not as fun as 89/90 when we had Le Tissler and Wallace both getting near or over 20 with Shearer and Rideout weighing in with a few too. 4-2-4 formation playing some sensational football.

 

ON another note people seem to be hung up on "cover" yet again. We dont need cover we need options. Look at all the top clubs, do Man Utd have a Rooney clone? DO Chelsea have another Drogba kicking his heels on the bench hoping for an injury so he can get a game, Spurs have Crouch, Defoe, Pavleyckenko and Keane, 4 very different strikers who get picked depending on the opposition and way Spurs are going to play. Adkins has said quite rightly, he wants us to be able to play different styles of play so there is no point having a poor mans Lambert to come of the bench for 15 minutes (who everyone will just slag off as being sh*t anyway if we did have one) If it was me i'd be looking for a quick, tricky striker too offer something different,que comments of Papa Waigo, get over it.

 

Options yes, but Lambert shouldn't be the sole option for a big man up front, but we must have at least ONE big man.

The very good examples you quote above are all from the Prem. where there is a lot more skill than in L1 and there are midfielders

who are able to change playing style at the drop of a hat, but at this level playing " nice football " is a bonus when you play on sub-standard pitches and have heavyweight defenders kicking you in the a*se!

 

I agree with NA that we need a squad different styles of play/ players especially with some of the away fixtures we have to play.

You can play to a big man if you have wingers (or whatever you want to call them nowadays) but no-one can play good (or expect midfielders to deliver the goods when playing on a mud heap.)

 

" Talented ball players " (Barney/ Connolly) are good to have - type McMenemy's prima donnas, but you need a big man to hold off the 6' 3" centre halves in the meantime.

[Turkish]

From less than half a season, and only playing two thirds of most games, getting substituted on 63 minutes, much to my annoyance

 

tell me about it mate, drives me nuts too!

[Big Bad Bob]

I agree that we should have maybe cosnidered buying some other big target man just in case Rickie got injured/lost form BUT who would we find that

 

a) Is good enough

b) would quite happily warm the bench.

 

Plus we have other backup strikers in Connolly, Barnard, OXO. I know they are not big target men but as someone else said if plan 'A' isn't working (ie Rickie) why bring on someone to replace him and cotinue with plan 'A'

[Barry the Badger]

scored total of 5 goals for us.

 

In half a season. Point was simply that Bale was the best free kick taker we've had since MLT, not Lambert in my opinion.

 

Re the main point, I don't think we were ever a one man team last season in terms of goals, but we did rely heavily on Lambert for the way we played. This season we are having to adapt due to his comparitively poor form, and I feel as though that process is still ongoing.

[Saint_clark]

In half a season. Point was simply that Bale was the best free kick taker we've had since MLT, not Lambert in my opinion.

 

Re the main point, I don't think we were ever a one man team last season in terms of goals, but we did rely heavily on Lambert for the way we played. This season we are having to adapt due to his comparitively poor form, and I feel as though that process is still ongoing.

In a full season. Walcott was the one who was snapped up after playing for just 6 months. Bale played a bit at the end of one season and the entirety of the next.

[NickG]

In half a season. Point was simply that Bale was the best free kick taker we've had since MLT, not Lambert in my opinion.

 

Re the main point, I don't think we were ever a one man team last season in terms of goals, but we did rely heavily on Lambert for the way we played. This season we are having to adapt due to his comparitively poor form, and I feel as though that process is still ongoing.

 

couple of decent ones, then taking them all and skiing most! Bale wasn't great for us but had obvious potential.

[Saint_clark]

couple of decent ones, then taking them all and skiing most! Bale wasn't great for us but had obvious potential.

 

Can't agree, Bale was fantastic for us. Tore the CCC to absolute shreds.

[hypochondriac]

Can't agree, Bale was fantastic for us. Tore the CCC to absolute shreds.

 

Yep. Our tactic was basically give it to Bale.

[dubai_phil]

I agree that we should have maybe cosnidered buying some other big target man just in case Rickie got injured/lost form BUT who would we find that

 

a) Is good enough

b) would quite happily warm the bench.

 

Plus we have other backup strikers in Connolly, Barnard, OXO. I know they are not big target men but as someone else said if plan 'A' isn't working (ie Rickie) why bring on someone to replace him and cotinue with plan 'A'

 

The specification is to find a cover, someone who in the season may make 5 or 6 starts but also get game time as a sub.

 

That fits a youngster. So (as an example) Roy Carroll has taken 2-3 seasons to get where he is now, so someone should have scoured the PL & CCC to find a 19 year old who would come in and be happy to play that number of games. Obviously a second RL ready made would not have come and may have unsettled RL.

 

Patto wasn't ready for a full season of first team football but could he have been that cover? I think he was still a bit lightweight

[Turkish]

The specification is to find a cover, someone who in the season may make 5 or 6 starts but also get game time as a sub.

 

That fits a youngster. So (as an example) Roy Carroll has taken 2-3 seasons to get where he is now, so someone should have scoured the PL & CCC to find a 19 year old who would come in and be happy to play that number of games. Obviously a second RL ready made would not have come and may have unsettled RL.

 

Patto wasn't ready for a full season of first team football but could he have been that cover? I think he was still a bit lightweight

 

I find this whole "cover" thing hilarious. People bang on that we need cover in this that and the other position, accept that we wont get a player as good as our star men to come in and play second fiddle to them so accept that said "cover" player is not going to be as good. yet the very same people moan that our back up players are not as good as the ones they are coming in for! Haven't we got "cover" players already in positons like Wotton and Holmes? Player not as good as out first XI, bu can do a job coming on on as a sub or when we have injuries, Wotton didn't do too bad a job in the JPT final now did he. Yet these people although admitting that our "cover" players are not going to be as good as our first XI then complain that these guys who are adequate L1 players are not good enough! We dont need "cover" players that just sit in the bench in case of injuries, suspensions. What we need is options and a squad of 20-24 good players, including youngsters that can give us options, flexiblity and picked depending on the opposition & formation or one that can have an impact from the bench.

[jam]

Yep. Our tactic was basically give it to Bale.

 

I remember posting on here that we'd become one-dimensional as the rest of team were totally reliant on Bale and someone having a go at me for 'blaming Bale' for us dropping away from the play offs...

[NickG]

Bale started great, his potential was obvious.

 

He score some good freekicks - but missed a lot more, again showing more what he was going to be than delivering at that stage.

 

His pace was excellent, and we built a huge amount around him.

 

Once the transfer speculation started his from dropped hugely and had a lot of poor and anonymous games. This may have been as he was distracted, or more likely that he had exceptional ability but few young players can be consistent when they first started.

 

Huge loss for us - more and what he was clearly going to become rather than how much he had delivered for us.

 

His deadball ability for us was a mile behind MLT- or even Rickie.

 

A great player - who played for us, rather than a player who was great when he did play for us.

[Jez]

Bale started great, his potential was obvious.......

 

Once the transfer speculation started his from dropped hugely and had a lot of poor and anonymous games. This may have been as he was distracted, or more likely that he had exceptional ability but few young players can be consistent when they first started.

 

It was more likely his performances tailed off because he was 16/17 and was playing 90 mins every week and was shattered as others have said, we relied very heavily on his input to games!

[Barry the Badger]

His deadball ability for us was a mile behind MLT- or even Rickie.

 

A great player - who played for us, rather than a player who was great when he did play for us.

 

Fair enough, have to admit I was not a season ticket holder back then, and at that time lived away from Southampton, so perhaps my view of that period is not as accurate as it could be. I always got the impression he was a monster free kick taker but I am happy to stand corrected.

[The9]

Every time Bale stepped up to take a free kick I thought it would be a goal - and he at least hit the woodwork with almost all of his first 2 months' worth of free-kicks. As the season wore on he lost that consistency and started missing the target more, but he was still an incredible free-kick taker when he first got into the side.

 

His performances were consistent, but the difference in the second half of the season was that we'd played everyone and they all had a plan to deal with him running from left back, whether it was to double-up on him or just restrict his receipt of the ball in the first place. Skacel's injury troubles also made his attacking less potent as sides didn't have to cover both of their significant threats.

 

FWIW, I think the reason Lallana's not as successful with free-kicks is because he favours a floating, curling ball into the corner, which is fine when unexpected and in open play but not as effective when the keeper has time to position himself. Of course this is all hypothetical, as Lambert takes them all, so I don't think I've ever seen Lallana take one.

[Neil]

Minutes per goal this season (League games):

 

Oxlade - 181 (4 goals)

Barnard - 202 (4)

Lambert - 210 (6)

Lallana - 268 (3)

Guly - 345 (1)

Fonte - 420 (3)

Hammond - 1,340 (1)

 

Even with Lambert's 4 pens and 1 deflected free-kick, Oxlade and Barnard are still (slightly) ahead. Do we have a penalty taker to replace Lambert if required?

[Window Cleaner]

Minutes per goal this season (League games):

 

Oxlade - 181 (4 goals)

Barnard - 202 (4)

Lambert - 210 (6)

Lallana - 268 (3)

Guly - 345 (1)

Fonte - 420 (3)

Hammond - 1,340 (1)

 

Even with Lambert's 4 pens and 1 deflected free-kick, Oxlade and Barnard are still (slightly) ahead. Do we have a penalty taker to replace Lambert if required?

 

you can't count penalties for one and not the others, Lambert has scored once from over 1000 minutes of presence on the field, anyone could sink the penalties, true he got one from a free kick but the deflection it took gave the keeper no chance, of course he might have planned it that way because he has magic powers...2 then.

Furthermore no matter how dump RL is he won't be dropped so we don't need a replacement penalty taker.Maybe after if he's subbed from time to time but we probably won't get many penalties after 80 minutes anyway.

We have to keep him in the side and managers will spout any bullsh*t to justify it.

Edited 19 November, 2010 by Window Cleaner

[The Kraken]

you can't count penalties for one and not the others, Lambert has scored once from over 1000 minutes of presence on the field, anyone could sink the penalties, true he got one from a free kick but the deflection it took gave the keeper no chance, of course he might have planned it that way because he has magic powers...2 then.

Furthermore no matter how dump RL is he won't be dropped so we don't need a replacement penalty taker.Maybe after if he's subbed from time to time but we probably won't get many penalties after 80 minutes anyway.

We have to keep him in the side and managers will spout any bullsh*t to justify it.

 

What a silly thing to say. No, not anyone could score a penalty. It's why MLT was so revered for his record, no-one else came close to it. At Saints we've been extremely blessed with penalty takers down the years; MLT, then Beattie who had an excellent record, and now Lambert.

 

Penalty taking is an art, and claiming they don't count is just nonsense. Take Lambert's penalty up at Notts County, when he had to wait an absolute age in front of a baying crowd before despatching his shot into the corner. Players who have the skill to do that time and time again are in short supply.

[Window Cleaner]

What a silly thing to say. No, not anyone could score a penalty. It's why MLT was so revered for his record, no-one else came close to it. At Saints we've been extremely blessed with penalty takers down the years; MLT, then Beattie who had an excellent record, and now Lambert.

 

Penalty taking is an art, and claiming they don't count is just nonsense. Take Lambert's penalty up at Notts County, when he had to wait an absolute age in front of a baying crowd before despatching his shot into the corner. Players who have the skill to do that time and time again are in short supply.

 

As you wish, i personally have never missed a penalty,taken about 30 I suppose;not the same standard of keeper obviously but then I wasn't of the same standard as any of the above.Can't remember who said it but some famous footballer said a professional footballer should never miss a penalty. I firmly believe that we have at least 5 or 6 others in our squad who could net every penalty

we get.

[dubai_phil]

What a silly thing to say. No, not anyone could score a penalty. It's why MLT was so revered for his record, no-one else came close to it. At Saints we've been extremely blessed with penalty takers down the years; MLT, then Beattie who had an excellent record, and now Lambert.

 

Penalty taking is an art, and claiming they don't count is just nonsense. Take Lambert's penalty up at Notts County, when he had to wait an absolute age in front of a baying crowd before despatching his shot into the corner. Players who have the skill to do that time and time again are in short supply.

 

Ahem... Don't forget David Peach who had a great record with penalties for many years

[The Kraken]

As you wish, i personally have never missed a penalty,taken about 30 I suppose;not the same standard of keeper obviously but then I wasn't of the same standard as any of the above.Can't remember who said it but some famous footballer said a professional footballer should never miss a penalty. I firmly believe that we have at least 5 or 6 others in our squad who could net every penalty

we get.

 

Well whoever said that is misguided IMO. Certainly a professional footballer should never miss the target from 12 yards. However, no penalty is unsavable and if the keeper guesses the right way the penalty has to be very well struck and very well placed or it won't be going in. We may have other players who could step up, but I don't believe any of them would come close to RL's precision and power from the spot.

[NickG]

saw a stat while ago that in professional football about 65-70% of penalties converted

[Window Cleaner]

saw a stat while ago that in professional football about 65-70% of penalties converted

 

not a great percentage really,probably down to the raised standard of keepers I guess.

 

However if we applied that percentage to the 4 penalties that we've had so far and attribute them to the other goalscorers in the team then RL stats would look frankly shameful comparitively wouldn't they???

Edited 19 November, 2010 by Window Cleaner

[The Kraken]

saw a stat while ago that in professional football about 65-70% of penalties converted

 

Being as Lambert (I believe) has a 100% record with us, I think that deserves a bit of respect. Six/seven out of ten compared to ten out of ten is a very big margin.

[david in sweden]

What a silly thing to say. No, not anyone could score a penalty. It's why MLT was so revered for his record, no-one else came close to it. At Saints we've been extremely blessed with penalty takers down the years; MLT, then Beattie who had an excellent record, and now Lambert.

Penalty taking is an art, and claiming they don't count is just nonsense. Take Lambert's penalty up at Notts County, when he had to wait an absolute age in front of a baying crowd before despatching his shot into the corner. Players who have the skill to do that time and time again are in short supply.

 

I agree totally Kraken,

over a period of 50 years I've seen some diabolical misses by players who had big reputations as goalscorers....

But the real marksmen could do it. George O'Brien (59 -66) and Terry Paine owed a chunk of their amazing goal tallies to good penalties...as did Ron Davies some years later.

David Peach still holds the league record for the most penalties scored by a full-back, although he (like Bale and Bridge ) was capable of playing elsewhere, too. Mick Channon's record goal tally, included a few pens. but he scored far more from open play.

 

MLT was undoubtedly the " best" allround scorer. Only 1 miss in 49 attempts , and (as anyone who has watched those ancient videos wiil see,) often scored from free-kicks that would have shamed David Beckham. (Two v. Newcastle at the Dell are legendary).

whilst his goals from open play were often spontaneous miracle shots... like the famous one v. Blackburn -beating 4 defenders and then lobbing the keeper ex-Saints Tim Flowers... from 30 yeards out.

 

Much of this thread seems to have waivered between ; big (tall) goalscorers and dead ball specialists !..my original thought was that ...yes it's good to have OPTIONS but if Lambert were to be injured (let alone -off form) we wouldn't have an option - except to

change the formation because of that. Either you decide to play a big man up front..or use more midfielders to feed "shorter " more mobile front men. An injured CF means you don't have options !

 

A good, stong striker can do a good job of tying up two or three defenders - even if he doesn't score every game .

hence my concern about lack of big men up front .

[ericofarabia]

Couldn't find any links to Leo Sayer singing the song of the Thread title.

 

RLSGM certainly hasn't been firing on all (if any) cylinders this season, but he is always a presence that defences cannot ignore and his threat from free kicks will make defenders think twice about rash challenges on the edge of the box that may give other players that extra moment to do something with the ball.

 

Hopefully he will show marked improvement and regain his appetite for the game as we continue our rise to the top of the table.

[david in sweden]

Couldn't find any links to Leo Sayer singing the song of the Thread title.

 

RLSGM certainly hasn't been firing on all (if any) cylinders this season, but he is always a presence that defences cannot ignore and his threat from free kicks will make defenders think twice about rash challenges on the edge of the box that may give other players that extra moment to do something with the ball.

 

Hopefully he will show marked improvement and regain his appetite for the game as we continue our rise to the top of the table.

 

you're right Eric,

few strikers in history are consistant as some defenders or goalies, they have a different mindset.

 

OK ...every generation turns up a regular goalscorers... Wayman, Reeves, O'Brien, Ron Davies, Channon MLT ..

but in general most strikers are " in and out " a lot of the time, and frequently have long , dry spells.

 

best recent example was James Beattie who went 9 games before scoring at the start of 2002-03..and yet ended up with 23 in the league. Nothing would surprise me to see Lambert get a hat-trick in the next week or two and go on a goal splurge !

[david in sweden]

I remember posting on here that we'd become one-dimensional as the rest of team were totally reliant on Bale and someone having a go at me for 'blaming Bale' for us dropping away from the play offs...

 

For older fans who remember ..." give it to Ron ..on his head " .. it was a very single minded appraoch ..and it worked for a while.

 

It was a master-stroke of Ted Bates to buy him in the first place, and pair him up with Terry Paine as his winger, but Ted never had a plan B and whenever Ron was absent / injured ..it showed. However, we were talking about two experienced international players.

 

Yes, it was exciting to watch the very young Gareth Bale, and he did score a (very) few goals, too...but it did seem like the same phenomenon ...in that the manager of the day ( Burley ?)... didn't have a plan B, either.

Bale brought some excitement to a team (and I use the word loosely) where he was the youngest player.

If anyone was "responsible" for relegation it was the other 10 donkey's (or maybe only 9) who were on the pitch at the same time.

Once again, (as I cited in the start of this thread) ... a case of a one-man band !

Edited 23 November, 2010 by david in sweden