England

[Smirking_Saint]

How people can so severely underate Gerrard is beyond me, other than Scholes he is the best and most wasted (england wise) player of a generation.

 

Wilshere may get there, in fact he reminds me very much of a young Gerrard and if he makes it to Gerrards level i hope we get it right and build the team around him.

 

I get what people are saying, we don't have technical players like those on the continent, but the main failing there is the complete lack of any forward thinking from many of the coaches in this country, especially at grass roots level, they just don't like change and certainly don't coach in the same way as they do in Spain, Holland etc.

 

The new Burton facility will be a MAJOR step forward but only if we employ the right coaches and coach in the right way, and at the moment if that includes ignoring the outdated English coaches then so be it. There is a reason there are so many foreign coaches in this country, it is because they understand beautiful and successful football and many English managers methods are far too archaic, it is changing.....slowly.

 

We need to build a team for the World cup and not have too much emphasis on the Euros.

[saint_bert]

How people can so severely underate Gerrard is beyond me, other than Scholes he is the best and most wasted (england wise) player of a generation.

 

Wilshere may get there, in fact he reminds me very much of a young Gerrard and if he makes it to Gerrards level i hope we get it right and build the team around him.

 

I get what people are saying, we don't have technical players like those on the continent, but the main failing there is the complete lack of any forward thinking from many of the coaches in this country, especially at grass roots level, they just don't like change and certainly don't coach in the same way as they do in Spain, Holland etc.

 

The new Burton facility will be a MAJOR step forward but only if we employ the right coaches and coach in the right way, and at the moment if that includes ignoring the outdated English coaches then so be it. There is a reason there are so many foreign coaches in this country, it is because they understand beautiful and successful football and many English managers methods are far too archaic, it is changing.....slowly.

 

We need to build a team for the World cup and not have too much emphasis on the Euros.

 

What does he do though?

 

For every 50 yard pass he hits 5 go astray.

 

The lack of positional discipline he shows while trying to act like Roy of the rovers is criminal

[Smirking_Saint]

What does he do though?

 

For every 50 yard pass he hits 5 go astray.

 

The lack of positional discipline he shows while trying to act like Roy of the rovers is criminal

 

It is the position he is asked to play, and he does it very well, i have never witnessed a player who can stamp his authority on a game so effectively, i really have lost count of the amount of games he has grabbed Liverpool by the scruff of the neck and dragged it across the winning line.

 

Perhaps if he had left them a little while back and moved to a team of players that suited him then people may have changed their mind about him, he is not the same player in the Liverpool team right now as they have not got the players that compliment him.

 

Yeah he plays his 50 yard passes and a decent majority come off, there is no way only 1 in 5 makes it, and the majority of times it works by starting counter attacks etc. But i do agree he often ignores the easy passes.

 

Wednesday was a perfect example, we looked bereft of ideas and endeavor until Gerrard started to drop deep and collect the ball/helped break up play.

 

And its not like he doesn't know how to stick to his position, i am sure if asked he would, but it is clear he is utilised in a more of a free role.

[hypochondriac]

Gerrard is generally cr*p for England. Also he is a thug and a horrible human being.

[Appy]

Gerrard is generally cr*p for England. Also he is a thug and a horrible human being.

 

Know him personally do you?

[skintsaint]

the day we start picking players on form rather than the club they play for, reputation, age etc will be the day we start to improve.

 

Getting rid of all the experianced players for youngsters isnt the way to go, you need a good mixture.

[Andy_Porter]

Gerrard is generally cr*p for England. Also he is a thug and a horrible human being.

 

Agreed, most over rated footballer in the country and a complete **** house.

[georgeweahscousin]

I'm not a fan of Gerrard either, but he was our only decent player against France.

 

Capello has got to go soon though, his heart isn't in it in my opinion.

[saint_bert]

It is the position he is asked to play, and he does it very well, i have never witnessed a player who can stamp his authority on a game so effectively, i really have lost count of the amount of games he has grabbed Liverpool by the scruff of the neck and dragged it across the winning line.

 

Perhaps if he had left them a little while back and moved to a team of players that suited him then people may have changed their mind about him, he is not the same player in the Liverpool team right now as they have not got the players that compliment him.

 

Yeah he plays his 50 yard passes and a decent majority come off, there is no way only 1 in 5 makes it, and the majority of times it works by starting counter attacks etc. But i do agree he often ignores the easy passes.

 

Wednesday was a perfect example, we looked bereft of ideas and endeavor until Gerrard started to drop deep and collect the ball/helped break up play.

 

And its not like he doesn't know how to stick to his position, i am sure if asked he would, but it is clear he is utilised in a more of a free role.

 

Were going to have to agree to disagree. Watch the 4-1 Germany game back over from the summer and tell me Gerrard has positional discipline.

[Andy_Porter]

I'm not a fan of Gerrard either, but he was our only decent player against France.

 

Capello has got to go soon though, his heart isn't in it in my opinion.

 

You've got to be ****ting me. Only Barry and Lescott where worse, all Gerrard done where his stupid hollywood balls to Walcott and Caroll, Ferdinand was the only player who put in a decent shift.

[Andy_Porter]

It is the position he is asked to play, and he does it very well, i have never witnessed a player who can stamp his authority on a game so effectively, i really have lost count of the amount of games he has grabbed Liverpool by the scruff of the neck and dragged it across the winning line.

 

Really? I mean really?

 

Zidane...?

[Smirking_Saint]

Really? I mean really?

 

Zidane...?

 

Yeah really, Zidane was brilliant but in different ways. In fact, yeah Zidane was a better player, probably the best player of his generation without a doubt.

 

But IMO to write off Gerrard is rediculous and to say he was one of our worse performers against France really is laughable.

 

We will have to agree to disagree i am afraid as IMO if Gerrard was utilised properly over the course of his England career and we hadn't wasted time trying to fit Lampard and Gerrard in the same team together then we may very well have had some success.

 

I do agree he is a c*nt though.

[Andy_Porter]

I think Gerrard is one of those players... there doesn't seem to be any middle ground.

[sambosa75]

Gerrar's main problem is his ill-discipline speaking from a positional point of view. Fact is he chases everything all game long which see's him pulled out of position time and time again. Because of this, occasionally he does influence a game and we all talk about this and remember this but I've watched a lot more games recently where it's actually been a hinderance to Liverpool rather than helping them. He is also a serial diver and I am amazed this doesnt get picked up on more by the media. Every time Liverpool are losing at Anfield he'll collapse in the box over and over until he wins a penalty which inevitably he does.

 

Speaking from England's point of view, if we persist in passing between the centre backs and then blindly lumping a long ball forward we will never win anything.

 

The most exciting thing about Andy Carroll is the lad can play. Yes, he's a big boy and England should make the most of his aerial prowess from set pieces but this shouldnt be out only tactic during a game. If it is, at least get the ball wide and whip some dangerous crosses in. We did this once for him against France and even that was a poor cross which he did well to get an effort on target from.

 

I hate him too but you do feel if Redknapp was manager he would get the best out of whats available. We might not play like Arsenal, Spain, Brazil or Barcelona but he would play quick wingers, solid defence and actually take the game to sides. The sooner Capello jogs on the better. He's obviously a good manager at club level but that doesnt always make a great international manager.

[JackFrost]

Gerrar's main problem is his ill-discipline speaking from a positional point of view. Fact is he chases everything all game long which see's him pulled out of position time and time again. Because of this, occasionally he does influence a game and we all talk about this and remember this but I've watched a lot more games recently where it's actually been a hinderance to Liverpool rather than helping them. He is also a serial diver and I am amazed this doesnt get picked up on more by the media. Every time Liverpool are losing at Anfield he'll collapse in the box over and over until he wins a penalty which inevitably he does.

 

Speaking from England's point of view, if we persist in passing between the centre backs and then blindly lumping a long ball forward we will never win anything.

 

The most exciting thing about Andy Carroll is the lad can play. Yes, he's a big boy and England should make the most of his aerial prowess from set pieces but this shouldnt be out only tactic during a game. If it is, at least get the ball wide and whip some dangerous crosses in. We did this once for him against France and even that was a poor cross which he did well to get an effort on target from.

 

I hate him too but you do feel if Redknapp was manager he would get the best out of whats available. We might not play like Arsenal, Spain, Brazil or Barcelona but he would play quick wingers, solid defence and actually take the game to sides. The sooner Capello jogs on the better. He's obviously a good manager at club level but that doesnt always make a great international manager.

 

Totally agree. I thought I was the only one who noticed this.

 

As for Capello his heart isn't in it because he has very limited say in what squad gets picked or the starting line ups especially in competitive fixtures. I think it was a job he fancied initially but he's now found out what the England manager's job actually entails.

[Thedelldays]

I would like to see in form players with the technically good players being in the team..

 

how players like SWP get in the squad/team is a joke..he is technically so poor and generally ****e...

 

time to do what france are doing/did....build the team around a handful of younger, skillfull players..

I hate the way the national team seems to "defult" to the same group of players...when rooney cant hit a barn door..he is still in...lampard has been poor for england no matter what...yet is still in...for all his faults with saints...I have to say, arry would be the man to get the best out of these players we have.....time to cut our losses with capello and get arry in...

 

wilshere

cahill

carroll

a johnson

milner

hart

huddlestone

 

 

these players are very skillfull, play for top clubs and are the future

Edited 21 November, 2010 by Thedelldays

[saint_bert]

How players like Danns and Johnson at Brum have not had at least a friendly game is beyond me. Over Lescott?!

[Crab Lungs]

I shouldn't have to post the stats up here but IIRC, Germany, Spain, Italy, France and Holland all have thousands upon thousands more accredited coaches than we do here; even some much, much smaller nations do.

 

For example, I think Spain had something like 30,000 accredited coaches - we have 3,000. Or something like that.

 

For a country of our size, we should not be so bereft of technically good players but we are. I'll always remember the football tournaments when I was younger, when we played kids from other countries and every, single one of those teams played us off the park. It wasn't that we weren't very good as we were effective in "English" football but when it came up against our European counterparts, we failed miserably.

 

And to add further weight to this, having recently restarted my Sunday football team again I've been unfortunate enough to witness some grassroots football and I am appalled (but not surprised) to see some of things I've seen so far. "Managers" or "Coaches" (whatever you want to call them, they act like neither) bellowing at 6,7,8 year old kids. 6,7,8 year old kids playing 11 aside, full sized pitches in full sized goals. A "win at all costs" attitude. Big kids at the back, small nippy ones at the front. It is cliched and, yes, the standard of coaching is getting better slowly but I saw absolutely nothing other than kick and rush football. No composure, no skills, no technique - just raw, 100mph football.

 

You have to wonder - what are some of these "managers" or "coaches" actually doing it for? Themselves, or the kid's development as a footballers and ultimately, people? Sometimes I fear it's the former.

 

Furthermore, when I was younger I actually got dropped from my club side for "not being able to kick the ball high or far enough". That's just another example of the shameful mentality in this country.

 

Hopefully the training centre at Burton will go some way to redressing the balance but it won't be an overnight thing; it took Spain the best part of twenty years to see results and most major nations in Europe have had a infrastructure like this for years. It's not ideal playing catch up but as long as we do, as a country, learn from our compatriots and learn from our own mistakes and start implementing a sensible, progressive coaching programme, we'll get there in the end.

 

100mph "passionate, guts and glory" football is not the answer.

[Give it to Ron]

I shouldn't have to post the stats up here but IIRC, Germany, Spain, Italy, France and Holland all have thousands upon thousands more accredited coaches than we do here; even some much, much smaller nations do.

 

For example, I think Spain had something like 30,000 accredited coaches - we have 3,000. Or something like that.

 

For a country of our size, we should not be so bereft of technically good players but we are. I'll always remember the football tournaments when I was younger, when we played kids from other countries and every, single one of those teams played us off the park. It wasn't that we weren't very good as we were effective in "English" football but when it came up against our European counterparts, we failed miserably.

 

And to add further weight to this, having recently restarted my Sunday football team again I've been unfortunate enough to witness some grassroots football and I am appalled (but not surprised) to see some of things I've seen so far. "Managers" or "Coaches" (whatever you want to call them, they act like neither) bellowing at 6,7,8 year old kids. 6,7,8 year old kids playing 11 aside, full sized pitches in full sized goals. A "win at all costs" attitude. Big kids at the back, small nippy ones at the front. It is cliched and, yes, the standard of coaching is getting better slowly but I saw absolutely nothing other than kick and rush football. No composure, no skills, no technique - just raw, 100mph football.

 

You have to wonder - what are some of these "managers" or "coaches" actually doing it for? Themselves, or the kid's development as a footballers and ultimately, people? Sometimes I fear it's the former.

 

Furthermore, when I was younger I actually got dropped from my club side for "not being able to kick the ball high or far enough". That's just another example of the shameful mentality in this country.

 

Hopefully the training centre at Burton will go some way to redressing the balance but it won't be an overnight thing; it took Spain the best part of twenty years to see results and most major nations in Europe have had a infrastructure like this for years. It's not ideal playing catch up but as long as we do, as a country, learn from our compatriots and learn from our own mistakes and start implementing a sensible, progressive coaching programme, we'll get there in the end.

 

100mph "passionate, guts and glory" football is not the answer.

 

It is getting better at grass roots level - I have seen clubs starting academies etc for 5 year olds that do concentrate on ball work skills etc rather than lumping it long.

Of course once you get in a league its all different as quite a few managers are the win at all costs and just lump it forward as territory is king. Mind you several leagues have stopped tables for under 8's to help that.

I was chatting to a mate on Saturday at football when this little lad came up - my mate had been coaching him a few weeks before - this lad was 6 and already has been signed by Chelsea and playing at under 8's.

[Hopkins]

One of the bigger problems regarding coaching is the ridiculous rules regarding what players clubs can sign. At the moment they can only sign young players who are within travelling distance (of a certain amount, I cant remember how much). Some fans and FA bosses seem to think this helps the smaller clubs who can bring players through and then get awarded for them with big money when they leave however they fail to realise this is also stopping alot of youngsters progress. Imagine your 11/12 you live in Northampton or somewhere else where the local team is guff, and Man United/Chelsea like you and want to sign you. They can't because of the ridiculous rules so your stuck with the team who's quality of coaching and facilities is considerably less. This will only hinder your progress. Players that come through are in spite of the system and not because of it. We'd have alot more quality in youngsters coming through if they were allowed to play under better coaches.

 

Of course this happens in countries where the National team is made priority however here we have the League as a priority. Which I agree with by the way, as I'd rather watch decent football every week rather than every couple of years but its something worth thinking about.

[sambosa75]

One of the bigger problems regarding coaching is the ridiculous rules regarding what players clubs can sign. At the moment they can only sign young players who are within travelling distance (of a certain amount, I cant remember how much). Some fans and FA bosses seem to think this helps the smaller clubs who can bring players through and then get awarded for them with big money when they leave however they fail to realise this is also stopping alot of youngsters progress. Imagine your 11/12 you live in Northampton or somewhere else where the local team is guff, and Man United/Chelsea like you and want to sign you. They can't because of the ridiculous rules so your stuck with the team who's quality of coaching and facilities is considerably less. This will only hinder your progress. Players that come through are in spite of the system and not because of it. We'd have alot more quality in youngsters coming through if they were allowed to play under better coaches.

 

Of course this happens in countries where the National team is made priority however here we have the League as a priority. Which I agree with by the way, as I'd rather watch decent football every week rather than every couple of years but its something worth thinking about.

 

The sentiment you are making, if true, would be correct but it isnt. If it was how could Southampton pick up kids for their academy in places like Bath and Bristol? Also my nephew plays for Southampton academy having turned down the likes of Pompey, Reading, Fulham and Chelsea. He actually went to Cobham and played a few games for Chelsea kids before opting for his beloved Saints. One of the major drawbacks of playing for an academy like Chelsea is they collect kids like they are going out of fashion. The squad for Chelsea's under 11's team has about 25 kids in it, meaning kids get 1 quarter a game playing time which is 20 minutes and much less time spent of coaching them individually.