Royal Wedding

[bridge too far]

And the Royal Family and the Middletons are going to pay for all aspects of the wedding, leaving the taxpyer to fund the security

 

More than reasonable, I'd say

 

That's good news!

[Whitey Grandad]

Because I was talking about shift workers in general and not him in particular. Jeez

 

There are other complications. I have a member of staff who works 4 days a week, Monday to Thursday, so Friday is not a normal day of work. The standard Bank Holidays are included in the total number of days of holiday entitlement that full-time members of staff receive, and so for reasons of fairness his person gets 80% of this overall total. That presumably means that they will be entitled to an extra 80% of a day off work. Our holiday year runs up to April 30th so that means they will get this 80% of a day during the current holiday year. I shall be losing 3 person-days of work. Why can't they get married on a Saturday like ordinary people?

[mickn]

There are other complications. I have a member of staff who works 4 days a week, Monday to Thursday, so Friday is not a normal day of work. The standard Bank Holidays are included in the total number of days of holiday entitlement that full-time members of staff receive, and so for reasons of fairness his person gets 80% of this overall total. That presumably means that they will be entitled to an extra 80% of a day off work. Our holiday year runs up to April 30th so that means they will get this 80% of a day during the current holiday year. I shall be losing 3 person-days of work. Why can't they get married on a Saturday like ordinary people?

 

Yes i should think this extra bank holiday will cost the country a fortune, but who cares we're in a massive recession anyway so more lost production won't matter

[bridge too far]

There are other complications. I have a member of staff who works 4 days a week, Monday to Thursday, so Friday is not a normal day of work. The standard Bank Holidays are included in the total number of days of holiday entitlement that full-time members of staff receive, and so for reasons of fairness his person gets 80% of this overall total. That presumably means that they will be entitled to an extra 80% of a day off work. Our holiday year runs up to April 30th so that means they will get this 80% of a day during the current holiday year. I shall be losing 3 person-days of work. Why can't they get married on a Saturday like ordinary people?

 

Good point there. My daughter works Monday - Thursday. However, she actually works full-time hours over the four days.

 

But her organisation (a housing association) works on an annualised hours basis. In other words, she's contracted to work x hours over the course of a year and gets y hours holiday a year. I guess she'll lose any entitlement to an extra BH because it's falling on a Friday or it will have to form part of her contracted y hours holiday a year.

 

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if some employees will not actually gain an extra day at all. Sorry for posting this link again, but I think it's quite relevant:

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10029788

 

especially: "bank and public holidays can be included in your minimum entitlement"

Edited 23 November, 2010 by bridge too far
Thinking the subject through

[pedg]

Good point there. My daughter works Monday - Thursday. However, she actually works full-time hours over the four days.

 

But her organisation (a housing association) works on an annualised hours basis. In other words, she's contracted to work x hours over the course of a year and gets y hours holiday a year. I guess she'll lose any entitlement to an extra BH because it's falling on a Friday or it will have to form part of her contracted y hours holiday a year.

 

My wife works Tuesday to Friday but because most bank holidays are on Mondays they have some complex calculation that results in her having a few extra days holiday a year added to her allowance. However that's all written into her part time contract so I would guess that for other folks the situation is probably different depending on whether these details are covered in their contract. However this public holiday next year is specifically for a special occasion so it may be hard to argue you are taking the day before off instead.

Edited 23 November, 2010 by pedg

[Whitey Grandad]

It's all to do with treating 'part-time' workers the same as those who work full-time. Whatever system is used, it must be 'fair'. Bank Holidays must be added to the basic entitlement before applying the ratio that is used for the part-timers. So, Bridge-too-Far, since your daughter is full-time I would have though that she should get an extra full day like everybody else, unles her contract specifically excludes this, although that may also be 'unfair'???

[Whitey Grandad]

My wife works Tuesday to Friday but because most bank holidays are on Mondays they have some complex calculation that results in her having a few extra days holiday a year added to her allowance. However that's all written into her part time contract so I would guess that for other folks the situation is probably different depending on whether these details are covered in their contract. However this public holiday next year is specifically for a special occasion so it may be hard to argue you are taking the day before off instead.

 

I would have though that in the interests of fairness your wife should have an extra 0.8 of a day to be taken at her discretion.

[bridge too far]

It's all to do with treating 'part-time' workers the same as those who work full-time. Whatever system is used, it must be 'fair'. Bank Holidays must be added to the basic entitlement before applying the ratio that is used for the part-timers. So, Bridge-too-Far, since your daughter is full-time I would have though that she should get an extra full day like everybody else, unles her contract specifically excludes this, although that may also be 'unfair'???

 

I really don't know. But am I right in thinking that some people might not get an 'extra' day - see the link I posted. It seems to me that it is possible and legal for employers to include all bank holidays when reckoning overall entitlement. For example, Mr TF gets the statutory minimum 28 days a year but Bank Holidays are included in that reckoning. I think I'm right that currently there are 8 BHs a year? So it will be 9 this year? So that leaves 19 days of choice instead of the normal 20 days.

 

Or have I got that wrong? It's all a bit confusing.

[Chin Strain]

I really don't know. But am I right in thinking that some people might not get an 'extra' day - see the link I posted. It seems to me that it is possible and legal for employers to include all bank holidays when reckoning overall entitlement. For example, Mr TF gets the statutory minimum 28 days a year but Bank Holidays are included in that reckoning. I think I'm right that currently there are 8 BHs a year? So it will be 9 this year? So that leaves 19 days of choice instead of the normal 20 days.

 

Or have I got that wrong? It's all a bit confusing.

 

I'd have thought the word 'minimum' is key here

[bridge too far]

I'd have thought the word 'minimum' is key here

 

I'm not disputing that. I think you'd be surprised at how many people only get the minimum.

 

But that's not what I'm trying to understand. If that statutory minimum stays at 28 days, then presumably people who only get that minimum won't get the additional day. Or will they? They might well get that Friday off but might they then lose an additional day of choice, so to speak?

 

I genuinely don't know what the answer is, but I'd like to.

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm not disputing that. I think you'd be surprised at how many people only get the minimum.

 

But that's not what I'm trying to understand. If that statutory minimum stays at 28 days, then presumably people who only get that minimum won't get the additional day. Or will they? They might well get that Friday off but might they then lose an additional day of choice, so to speak?

 

I genuinely don't know what the answer is, but I'd like to.

 

It has to be 'fair' so if some members of staff get an extra day off work and others don't then that cannot be 'fair'.

[Whitey Grandad]

There's a bit more here on the subject:

 

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.s=sc&r.l4=1074414642&r.l1=1073858787&r.lc=en&r.l3=1084822795&r.l2=1084822788&r.i=1074414877&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081597934&r.t=RESOURCES

 

There are 8 days of Bank Holidays in England and Wales, 9 in Scotland and 10 in Northern Ireland. I am self-employed so I don't get paid for any of them.

[trousers]

So, we've duly arrived at the revelation that life is unfair. Doesn't quite trump Einstein's eureka moment but it's up there.

[bridge too far]

There's a bit more here on the subject:

 

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.s=sc&r.l4=1074414642&r.l1=1073858787&r.lc=en&r.l3=1084822795&r.l2=1084822788&r.i=1074414877&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081597934&r.t=RESOURCES

 

There are 8 days of Bank Holidays in England and Wales, 9 in Scotland and 10 in Northern Ireland. I am self-employed so I don't get paid for any of them.

 

Thanks for that link - it makes it a bit clearer. I also read your comment about being fair - however many companies (and my other daughter works for one) insist that Bank Holidays are included in the statutory minimum 28 days (in other words, overall she gets 28 days). So I'm assuming that the extra BH will figure in their reckoning for all their employees. In other words 9 and not 8 days will be deducted straight away, leaving 19 instead of 20 days of choice. Such people won't actually get an additional day in reality. Others will, of course. I guess everyone needs to check their Contracts of Employment.

 

Mr TF is the same. However, as he works 4 days (or nights) on shift and 4 days off, he inevitably has to work on some BHs. He doesn't get additional pay or TOIL but the upside is that he's often not working when others are. The downside is that quite often we can't do stuff on a BH and that, for 5 weekends out of 8, he's working or turning himself round from days to nights and vice versa.

 

But at least we can sometimes have days out together during the working week

 

So to summarise (deep breath) - I'm not being negative . I'm simply pointing out that some people just won't get an extra day off next year, or get paid extra for working on a BH or have TOIL (including the self-employed - having been S/E myself years ago I truly appreciate your point).

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Thanks for that link - it makes it a bit clearer. I also read your comment about being fair - however many companies (and my other daughter works for one) insist that Bank Holidays are included in the statutory minimum 28 days (in other words, overall she gets 28 days). So I'm assuming that the extra BH will figure in their reckoning for all their employees. In other words 9 and not 8 days will be deducted straight away, leaving 19 instead of 20 days of choice. Such people won't actually get an additional day in reality. Others will, of course. I guess everyone needs to check their Contracts of Employment.

 

Mr TF is the same. However, as he works 4 days (or nights) on shift and 4 days off, he inevitably has to work on some BHs. He doesn't get additional pay or TOIL but the upside is that he's often not working when others are. The downside is that quite often we can't do stuff on a BH and that, for 5 weekends out of 8, he's working or turning himself round from days to nights and vice versa.

 

But at least we can sometimes have days out together during the working week

 

So to summarise (deep breath) - I'm not being negative . I'm simply pointing out that some people just won't get an extra day off next year, or get paid extra for working on a BH or have TOIL (including the self-employed - having been S/E myself years ago I truly appreciate your point).

 

Come work in the wealth creating sector BTF. When you work for yourself you will see that you have no rights what so ever just more and more and more red tape. Little thanks for paying for the non productive sector.

[bridge too far]

Come work in the wealth creating sector BTF. When you work for yourself you will see that you have no rights what so ever just more and more and more red tape. Little thanks for paying for the non productive sector.

 

1. I have worked for myself for a number of years, many years ago.

 

2. When I worked in the public sector, I let contracts to construction companies and other suppliers, so they had work.

 

3. I am now retired.

[revolution saint]

My sister is a solicitor and part time as well working three days a week. She has Mondays off anyway and isn't entitled to claim any time due to the fact that most Bank Holidays fall on a Monday. Obvioulsy having a vested interest she's looked into this a fair deal and as it stands there's no obligation on the employer to provide any TOIL to part time employees who wouldn't normally work on a day that a bank holiday falls. As long as you're providing the statutory amount of holiday then it's up to the firm. It's a tricky situation because of course if you're a part time worker who normally works Mondays then you'd have a disproportionate amount of time off compared to your other part time counterparts. Anyway the upshot is that no one has ever brought this to court and there's no precedent for it so firms are left to figure it out for themselves.