dune Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 Hampshire Constabularys policy of letting everyone out at the same time ss the same as Margaret Thatcher ordering the sinking of the Belgrano. Some will argue against it, but ultimately it was the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickyhale Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 Mr Bishop was found NOT GUILTY by a jury today..... He was even found NOT GUILTY of a lesser charge. I have sat through 2 weeks trial and the only evidence the crown had offered was that his hand was on a fence.....Well done Mr Martyn Bishop and nice to see the jury have some common sense. Mr Bishop was awarded full cost even his daily car parking was payed. In the time when everybody cutting back and trying to save money the Police and C.P.S are still wasting public money like no tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 IMO. The fact that Hants OB decided to let the skates out and go against everything that’s done at any other high risk fixture in this country, including down here before, suggests they wanted arrests. We had an escalating hoolie problem and they probably wanted convictions to send out a warning – it’s was openly stated in the local media before the bournemuff game that they were specifically targeting Saints fans. As it turned out, just anyone would do. They erected an impenetrable steel barrier outside the Northam end so anyone coming out of the Kingsland side of it could only have gone in the opposite direction to where the ‘Freebourne battle’ took place. That would have meant those involved in this particular trouble must have come out of the Itchen North. I’d bet those fans were just amazed to see the 4000 skates spilling onto Britannia Road and just reacted, like many had done inside the ground, exchanging insults and the situation immediately developed and quickly got out of hand in the ‘heat of the moment’. It’s just that the OB had their cameras firmly fixed on only the Saints fans despite both sides playing up. It looks like a controlled situation was allowed to develop, as many other potential trouble makers were tucked up on the other side of the stadium, giving a manageable number of ‘scapegoats’ enough rope to hang themselves. For some certainly ‘wrong place, wrong time’. Will be interesting to see what happens next Tuesday. that is pretty spot on mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 What happened with the bloke who kicked the pompey fans passenger door in and threw the coin at the car? he was in court months ago and got a fine and a ban i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 Mr Bishop was found NOT GUILTY by a jury today..... He was even found NOT GUILTY of a lesser charge. I have sat through 2 weeks trial and the only evidence the crown had offered was that his hand was on a fence.....Well done Mr Martyn Bishop and nice to see the jury have some common sense. Mr Bishop was awarded full cost even his daily car parking was payed. In the time when everybody cutting back and trying to save money the Police and C.P.S are still wasting public money like no tomorrow What was the lesser charge? More good news. Is that everyone that went to trial cleared now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 Mr Bishop was found NOT GUILTY by a jury today..... He was even found NOT GUILTY of a lesser charge. I have sat through 2 weeks trial and the only evidence the crown had offered was that his hand was on a fence.....Well done Mr Martyn Bishop and nice to see the jury have some common sense. Mr Bishop was awarded full cost even his daily car parking was payed. In the time when everybody cutting back and trying to save money the Police and C.P.S are still wasting public money like no tomorrow It's pathetic that they proceeded with the trial. What was the CPS and the QC doing going forward with a case devoid of evidence? it's unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 It's pathetic that they proceeded with the trial. What was the CPS and the QC doing going forward with a case devoid of evidence? it's unbelievable. Like the guy who was aquitted last week when the only evidence against him was being on camera talking on his phone 15 feet away, even the conviction hungry Echo said that. how the f*** did that even warrant being arrested? That could have been anyone that was anywhere near the incident. Utter joke and a total waste of time. I really think in cases like this where there is no evidence whatsoever then the accused should be compensated. These guys have missed out on the JPT final and been banned from football for six months or so, plus all the stress just because they happened to be there. Its disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 newsdesk@dailyecho.co.uk This is the adress for the echo new editor. I think we should mail him asking him to run a story of equvilent size to the ones with these lads names and addresses explaining why they were aquited and slamming the police for wasting public money arresting and bringing to trial five people when there was zero evidence against them. They were quick enough to praise them and critise those that were sent down. Although headlines of "Saints fans cleared of anywrong doing" "police waste taxpayers money in pointless trial" and "fans forum question police tactics as fans with no evidence against them are aquitted" are probably not the message they want people to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 And what about the majority of Brighton fans that deserve to be given the opportunity to get back to their cars without sticking out like the proverbial sore thumb? Letting everyone out at the same time is the best option for normal fans. The only people it doesn't suit is the miniscule minority that want to fight. Law and Order is about protecting the innocent, not about protecting criminals from themselves. For that fundamental reason Hampshire Constabulary did the right thing for the Portsmouth game and they should continue to do it. That maybe correct and preferable in an ideal world but what some on here are saying is this possibly wasn't the reason they were let out the same time. I'd like to know if the same Hampshire Constabulary will/did let out Cardiff, Millwall and Leeds fans from fartton at the same time as home fans this season? And if it really is a "miniscule minority that want to fight" surely it would be better to keep away fans in, clear the area, and then the Police can easily identify possible trouble makers hanging around and remove them. There's more likely a chance of innocents getting caught up in a fight if it kicks off with everyone coming out at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 That maybe correct and preferable in an ideal world but what some on here are saying is this possibly wasn't the reason they were let out the same time. I'd like to know if the same Hampshire Constabulary will/did let out Cardiff, Millwall and Leeds fans from fartton at the same time as home fans this season? And if it really is a "miniscule minority that want to fight" surely it would be better to keep away fans in, clear the area, and then the Police can easily identify possible trouble makers hanging around and remove them. There's more likely a chance of innocents getting caught up in a fight if it kicks off with everyone coming out at the same time. Too practical for some of the clever ones on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 To save on needless costs to the british justice system and re-awakening the angst of our ageing hoolies, might i suggest that any fans leaving the ground from the itchen stand next tuesday turn right and any fans leaving the norham stand walk either left or straight forward and over the bridge. big john (BJ - rocket Science) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 That maybe correct and preferable in an ideal world but what some on here are saying is this possibly wasn't the reason they were let out the same time. I'd like to know if the same Hampshire Constabulary will/did let out Cardiff, Millwall and Leeds fans from fartton at the same time as home fans this season? And if it really is a "miniscule minority that want to fight" surely it would be better to keep away fans in, clear the area, and then the Police can easily identify possible trouble makers hanging around and remove them. There's more likely a chance of innocents getting caught up in a fight if it kicks off with everyone coming out at the same time. Dune thinks fans should be let out at the same time and they would all merrily shake hands and swap scarves or the away fans keeping quiet and going home unnoticed. In reality this is madness. I used to walk up past the away car park most home games and i remember in the championship big groups of Cardiff and Bristol City grouping together looking for a bit of trouble. Last season Swindon fans grouped together and walked back up Britannia Road singing anti Saints songs and there are numerous other occasions. This would be 100 times worse with Pompey, with not only them "mobbing up" but as many Saints also doing the same. Britannia Road would be a battle field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 This problem could have been negated if they had moved the 'away end' to the chapel. easy to cordon off the industrial estate and escort coaches etc in convoy. They could even erect a semi-perm fence. Oh yeah, and it would make the builiding of a train platform more viable too. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 November, 2010 Share Posted 18 November, 2010 This problem could have been negated if they had moved the 'away end' to the chapel. easy to cordon off the industrial estate and escort coaches etc in convoy. They could even erect a semi-perm fence. Oh yeah, and it would make the builiding of a train platform more viable too. ;-) that is exactly what i thought at the time, but on police advice they were told not too. They seem to be getting a fair bit wrong lately dont they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 newsdesk@dailyecho.co.uk This is the adress for the echo new editor. I think we should mail him asking him to run a story of equvilent size to the ones with these lads names and addresses explaining why they were aquited and slamming the police for wasting public money arresting and bringing to trial five people when there was zero evidence against them. They were quick enough to praise them and critise those that were sent down. Although headlines of "Saints fans cleared of anywrong doing" "police waste taxpayers money in pointless trial" and "fans forum question police tactics as fans with no evidence against them are aquitted" are probably not the message they want people to read. Credit where it's due, almost a full page tucked away in the book on page 17 of today's Echo (no where to been seen on their website right now though?) No where near the front page splash it would have got if any of the defendents had been found guilty (funniest thing about this case I've read is the Judge telling the defendent who plead guilty it might be a good idea to change his plea - such was the non existant nature of prosecution evidence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 That maybe correct and preferable in an ideal world but what some on here are saying is this possibly wasn't the reason they were let out the same time. I'd like to know if the same Hampshire Constabulary will/did let out Cardiff, Millwall and Leeds fans from fartton at the same time as home fans this season? And if it really is a "miniscule minority that want to fight" surely it would be better to keep away fans in, clear the area, and then the Police can easily identify possible trouble makers hanging around and remove them. There's more likely a chance of innocents getting caught up in a fight if it kicks off with everyone coming out at the same time. I dont get how they can have made the decission to let them out just so they could nik a few muppets. Had they not put a fence up and then did it I might be able to agree. But they didnt decide to put the fence up for no reason and no doubt they would have discussed at great legnths before the match what they planned to do. So the decission to let them all out together must have been something they decided before the match was even started. The fact they did it even after we got hammered (scoreline not performance) suggests to me that the plan was to do it no matter what. How could they justify the cost of the fence otherwise? Our ground and surrounding area has the capacity to be able to try something like the fence. Farton park does not so keeping the fans in is the perferable option as without a fence it would be almost impossible to police. They may decide to keep fans in if there is a next time or they may decide to try something completly different. There are innocents in the away end too and anyone outside hanging around for trouble are more likly going to leave the area to try and ambush the away fans on route out of the area. Letting them all out at the same time means the police can get shot of them before the idiots can group up outside. There are arguments for both sides but the one thing that seems to never change is the ability of football to attract the idiots that want trouble. The world cup must be the 1st football competition where there was no segregation inside and outside of the grounds and no trouble either. Is that becuase the idiots were not there or because without the segregation fans resorted to friendly face to face banter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 And what about the majority of Brighton fans that deserve to be given the opportunity to get back to their cars without sticking out like the proverbial sore thumb? Letting everyone out at the same time is the best option for normal fans. The only people it doesn't suit is the miniscule minority that want to fight. Law and Order is about protecting the innocent, not about protecting criminals from themselves. For that fundamental reason Hampshire Constabulary did the right thing for the Portsmouth game and they should continue to do it. And there is absolutely nothing normal about a Saints Pompey derby game... I think you've just proved that the police were wrong in letting the fans out at the same time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 I dont get how they can have made the decission to let them out just so they could nik a few muppets. Had they not put a fence up and then did it I might be able to agree. But they didnt decide to put the fence up for no reason and no doubt they would have discussed at great legnths before the match what they planned to do. So the decission to let them all out together must have been something they decided before the match was even started. The fact they did it even after we got hammered (scoreline not performance) suggests to me that the plan was to do it no matter what. How could they justify the cost of the fence otherwise? Our ground and surrounding area has the capacity to be able to try something like the fence. Farton park does not so keeping the fans in is the perferable option as without a fence it would be almost impossible to police. They may decide to keep fans in if there is a next time or they may decide to try something completly different. There are innocents in the away end too and anyone outside hanging around for trouble are more likly going to leave the area to try and ambush the away fans on route out of the area. Letting them all out at the same time means the police can get shot of them before the idiots can group up outside. There are arguments for both sides but the one thing that seems to never change is the ability of football to attract the idiots that want trouble. The world cup must be the 1st football competition where there was no segregation inside and outside of the grounds and no trouble either. Is that becuase the idiots were not there or because without the segregation fans resorted to friendly face to face banter? Obviously we dont know. Last season however there was a big Echo driven campaign detailing how we were supposedly the new Millwall and the police were going to crush our "firm" maybe they assumed the lads in the itchen north would go to the fence and try to get at them through it, stand back filming and take out a load in one hit? Turns out they didn't get any of the ones they wanted though. Just as a point apparantly at the recent Swansea v Cardiff game the away fans were kept in and only allowed to travel on official club transport. Also at Palace v Millwall they only let small groups of Millwall fans out together and staggered the exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Obviously we dont know. Last season however there was a big Echo driven campaign detailing how we were supposedly the new Millwall and the police were going to crush our "firm" maybe they assumed the lads in the itchen north would go to the fence and try to get at them through it, stand back filming and take out a load in one hit? Turns out they didn't get any of the ones they wanted though. Just as a point apparantly at the recent Swansea v Cardiff game the away fans were kept in and only allowed to travel on official club transport. Also at Palace v Millwall they only let small groups of Millwall fans out together and staggered the exit. If there was a discussion before the match that talked about putting the public saftey at risk so they could nik a few idiots that think they are a "firm" then there is something seriously out of order. The whole fence idea would have been discussed with the club as well so I cant see the club agreeing to it if the reason behind it was to prevoke a bit of a kick off. If it was discussed and those very reasons were mentioned then there really is a story for the press to get hold of. The local police knowingly putting the public safty at risk so they can stamp on a few chavs wanting a fight!! And the Club agreeing to it too!!!! Proper front page news there! Your last example shows that there are other options though and also shows that the wider police force are looking at clubs and possibly looking at ways they can change things or ways that they police games. Looking at the way some other countrys police games with riot shields and battons which more often than not results in riots all round, english football has at least tried to police games in a more relaxed manor that has more often than not resulted in less trouble or riots. I dont think the police have the balls to try policing any matches with no segregation and i dont think i would have the balls to make the decission if it were mine to make. But there must be some kind of middle ground or an attempt to get football fans following the example set by other sports. Also after the Africa WC showed that no segregation can happen, what would England do if it won the bid to host the World Cup? Would that also be a no segregation event like Africa? Wonder if the idea is on there radar and if it is I wonder what it would mean to the local game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 As I've mentioned before my brother in law is part of the COD team involved in these cases an they had planned on nicking the known trouble makers but they got none of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Also after the Africa WC showed that no segregation can happen, what would England do if it won the bid to host the World Cup? Would that also be a no segregation event like Africa? Wonder if the idea is on there radar and if it is I wonder what it would mean to the local game? It does seem as though international tournament football is better able to cope with no segregation than club football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 It does seem as though international tournament football is better able to cope with no segregation than club football. Unless it's England, I've seen Newcastle and Sunderland fighting in the ground in Malmo. Oh and Saints Pompey! Very sad when people can't put club allegiances aside when watching England. South Africa was different, alot less mongs travelled to that one. England in 2018 would be similar to Euro 96, no trouble in grounds but sporadic trouble over London assuming england play there. On the assumption the media haven't ****ed it up for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 And there is absolutely nothing normal about a Saints Pompey derby game... I think you've just proved that the police were wrong in letting the fans out at the same time... The comparitively small ammount of trouble after the said match justifies letting everyone out at the same time. If Pompey fans had been held in there would have been familys and innocent groups walking back to their cars minus a crowd to blend in with. It's in these secluded situations where the yobs would have attacked - you only have to see the so called Saints fan intimidating a middle aged skate ***** in her car (the clip is on youtube) - if they'd do that to a woman then what would he have done if an innocent middle aged man in a skate shirt had walked by? No matter how you try to wriggle about Darren the fact is that there was very little trouble after the game and that makes the operation a sucess. When maggie ordered the sinking of the Belgrano she did it to protect "our boys". When hants police let everyone out at the same time they did it to protect innocent fans. I for one applaud both decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 The comparitively small ammount of trouble after the said match justifies letting everyone out at the same time. If Pompey fans had been held in there would have been familys and innocent groups walking back to their cars minus a crowd to blend in with. It's in these secluded situations where the yobs would have attacked - you only have to see the so called Saints fan intimidating a middle aged skate ***** in her car (the clip is on youtube) - if they'd do that to a woman then what would he have done if an innocent middle aged man in a skate shirt had walked by? No matter how you try to wriggle about Darren the fact is that there was very little trouble after the game and that makes the operation a sucess. When maggie ordered the sinking of the Belgrano she did it to protect "our boys". When hants police let everyone out at the same time they did it to protect innocent fans. I for one applaud both decisions. I wonder if the innocent 70 year old fella that got a stone on his cannister wishes he'd been held back in the ground for 30 minutes and not let out into, what the echo would have you believe a baying mob hurling bricks. The other view of the incident of course is that if the Pompey fans had been held in, then there is nothing to attack, Police only have one set of fans to deal with and clear whilst the other is safely locked inside the ground, then once cleared they can escort the Pompey fans back to the station, incident free, save a bit of posturing, like they have done in previous games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFSFC Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 After reading this it makes me laugh how many people we have that spout a load of rubbish. I was made up our boys got let off, i know some real scum bags in life that dodge working dont pay tax, thieves, proper wrongens. And they have avoided prison there whole lives. Two of my good mates were up in court one of which was not a trouble maker but had a few beers slightly annoyed his team lost so wanted to have a go at releasing his anger by having a pop at the blue few. Gets hit with a stone throws it back bang 12 month prison sentance loses his job, in financial difficulty all because those vermin that work for the echo put his picture in the paper and you lot all jump on the phone. I know him, him, and him. Lets ask ourselves this if he was a trouble maker, known by the police why would they put his picture in the paper they wouldnt theyd have been round his house and arrested him there. The other was known to the police and they tried pinning him to the scene of the crime because of the clothing he was wearing that was it, imagine you had the same coat on as Ian Huntley and were put in court for just that, Its wrong he luckily knew the score and got off. Made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanfairoak Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 :)Mr Bishop was found NOT GUILTY by a jury today..... He was even found NOT GUILTY of a lesser charge. I have sat through 2 weeks trial and the only evidence the crown had offered was that his hand was on a fence.....Well done Mr Martyn Bishop and nice to see the jury have some common sense. Mr Bishop was awarded full cost even his daily car parking was payed. In the time when everybody cutting back and trying to save money the Police and C.P.S are still wasting public money like no tomorrow GREAT NEWS now he can get on with his life, waste of public money IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 After reading this it makes me laugh how many people we have that spout a load of rubbish. I was made up our boys got let off, i know some real scum bags in life that dodge working dont pay tax, thieves, proper wrongens. And they have avoided prison there whole lives. Two of my good mates were up in court one of which was not a trouble maker but had a few beers slightly annoyed his team lost so wanted to have a go at releasing his anger by having a pop at the blue few. Gets hit with a stone throws it back bang 12 month prison sentance loses his job, in financial difficulty all because those vermin that work for the echo put his picture in the paper and you lot all jump on the phone. I know him, him, and him. Lets ask ourselves this if he was a trouble maker, known by the police why would they put his picture in the paper they wouldnt theyd have been round his house and arrested him there. The other was known to the police and they tried pinning him to the scene of the crime because of the clothing he was wearing that was it, imagine you had the same coat on as Ian Huntley and were put in court for just that, Its wrong he luckily knew the score and got off. Made up. This is what gets me - all over the place begging people to grass and implying they are guilty, however - when they get let off (as our mutual friend has), it's tucked away on page 17 and nowhere on the Echo website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 I wonder if the innocent 70 year old fella that got a stone on his cannister wishes he'd been held back in the ground for 30 minutes and not let out into, what the echo would have you believe a baying mob hurling bricks. The other view of the incident of course is that if the Pompey fans had been held in, then there is nothing to attack, Police only have one set of fans to deal with and clear whilst the other is safely locked inside the ground, then once cleared they can escort the Pompey fans back to the station, incident free, save a bit of posturing, like they have done in previous games. I was just thinking the same. If there is any reason to keep people in it is not to make sure people don't get themselves into trouble by throwing stuff at the other supporters, but to protect the potential victims of the attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Unless it's England, I've seen Newcastle and Sunderland fighting in the ground in Malmo. Oh and Saints Pompey! Very sad when people can't put club allegiances aside when watching England. Who won?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Gets hit with a stone throws it back bang 12 month prison sentance. That seems harsh, but at the end of the day it could killed someone. It's a bit like the student that dropped a fire extinguisher off the top of the building. When you talk about a stone are we talking 10mm, 20mm, 50mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
100%Red&White Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 LOL you mong. There is no rivalry why keep the fans in? "Mong", you do make me smile and remind me a bit of myself when I was young and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 After reading this it makes me laugh how many people we have that spout a load of rubbish. I was made up our boys got let off, i know some real scum bags in life that dodge working dont pay tax, thieves, proper wrongens. And they have avoided prison there whole lives. Two of my good mates were up in court one of which was not a trouble maker but had a few beers slightly annoyed his team lost so wanted to have a go at releasing his anger by having a pop at the blue few. Gets hit with a stone throws it back bang 12 month prison sentance loses his job, in financial difficulty all because those vermin that work for the echo put his picture in the paper and you lot all jump on the phone. I know him, him, and him. Lets ask ourselves this if he was a trouble maker, known by the police why would they put his picture in the paper they wouldnt theyd have been round his house and arrested him there. The other was known to the police and they tried pinning him to the scene of the crime because of the clothing he was wearing that was it, imagine you had the same coat on as Ian Huntley and were put in court for just that, Its wrong he luckily knew the score and got off. Made up. How about your mate goes and watches Hampshire play cricket at the Rose Bowl and when they lose he goes looking for the opposing fans so he can have a Pop then? Trouble maker or not his behaviour (along with shed loads of others) was a bit stupid after the match. It doesnt excuse the police nicking him and not everyone else doing the same stupid things or the CPS for bringing charges on someone without enough evidence, or the paper for splashing names, addresses and pictures all over the place either. But act a tool at a football match and your asking for trouble. How long before people learn this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 it's finally on the Echo website. The one that pleaded guilty changed his plea and got a suspended sentance for affray. Still a lot for shaking a fence but thank f*ck for some common sense finally in this whole thing. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8678058.Saints_fans_cleared/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 How about your mate goes and watches Hampshire play cricket at the Rose Bowl and when they lose he goes looking for the opposing fans so he can have a Pop then? Trouble maker or not his behaviour (along with shed loads of others) was a bit stupid after the match. It doesnt excuse the police nicking him and not everyone else doing the same stupid things or the CPS for bringing charges on someone without enough evidence, or the paper for splashing names, addresses and pictures all over the place either. But act a tool at a football match and your asking for trouble. How long before people learn this? Football's a passionate spectator sport, it wouldn't be the same if fans didn't get animated. I wonder if you, saintjay77, are the type that goes and adds to the atmosphere or are one that sits on his hands with his mouth shut for 90 mins? If you were giving it (like 90% of the ground that day) to the skates, how is that acceptable inside the stadium but not moments later outside? It's hard to switch off immediately the game ends (those were the days) particularly when you've just been dicked by the local rivals and they're giving you pelters. I'm not excusing hooliganism, just think it's asking a bit much to expect an instant change in personality after 90 mins of passion (those were the days) particularly after a local derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 When your inside the stadium the game is on. Once the whistle blows and your outside, it's finished. There's a difference between being animated and being done for Affray and Violent disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Football's a passionate spectator sport, it wouldn't be the same if fans didn't get animated. I wonder if you, saintjay77, are the type that goes and adds to the atmosphere or are one that sits on his hands with his mouth shut for 90 mins? If you were giving it (like 90% of the ground that day) to the skates, how is that acceptable inside the stadium but not moments later outside? It's hard to switch off immediately the game ends (those were the days) particularly when you've just been dicked by the local rivals and they're giving you pelters. I'm not excusing hooliganism, just think it's asking a bit much to expect an instant change in personality after 90 mins of passion (those were the days) particularly after a local derby. While I agree with parts of what you've just said, it's the bolded bit I don't really get. It's not the 70s and 80s any more, inside the stadium there is longer dart throwing, taking the other team's end and such like; it's just banter, pretty much the only things being thrown around are words. Everyone knows that you can mouth off all you like and nothing will happen, its part of football. And long may it continue by the way, I think segregation and banter between opposition crowds are what make football the best spectator sport in the world. However, outside the ground for some it became more than banter and had the potential to escalate into something far worse. Put the numbers into context of the amount surrounding the Pompey fans cordon, and the amount of people who've been charged with anything. Despite there being a few trumped up charges (which have now rightly been dismissed) in amongst the guilty verdicts, it is only very much a minority of people that even got charged with anything in the first place; and they were charged with offenses that were a lot worse than are normally seen inside a ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Well I'd keep both sets of supporters in for 20 minutes - that would sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 it's finally on the Echo website. The one that pleaded guilty changed his plea and got a suspended sentance for affray. Still a lot for shaking a fence but thank f*ck for some common sense finally in this whole thing. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8678058.Saints_fans_cleared/ Shows what a bunch of ***ts the people on here calling for jail sentences are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 it's finally on the Echo website. The one that pleaded guilty changed his plea and got a suspended sentance for affray. Still a lot for shaking a fence but thank f*ck for some common sense finally in this whole thing. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8678058.Saints_fans_cleared/ It's a a strange headline considering it has nothing to do with the crux of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 This whole sorry episode has been a farce from day one. This has been totally blown out of proprotion in the hope of getting a few easy convictions and the injustice is that those innocent Saints fans have been treated very badly by the justice system and by the media.If i ever get mugged or burgled,i hope the police put just as much effort in trying to catch those real criminals,as they have trying to convict a few fence rattlers. Those poor Saints fans who have been proved innocent should never have had their pictures in the paper,or been banned from St Marys(even Wembley),because they should have been treated as innocent until proved otherwise.But if you show a bit of passion at a football match,you are considered a yob,by the police ,end of.Imagine cricket,tennis or even rugby fans treated the same?There would be an outcry. Anyway sorry for the rant,im just fed up with the way we are treated at football and although i dont know any of those Saints fans who were on trial,im glad they have their lives back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 It's a a strange headline considering it has nothing to do with the crux of the story. The headline has changed since they originally posted it on there. It was "saints fans cleared". More spin from the Echo, why not stick with the original headline which is what the story was about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rut Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Good news that all 5 were proven innocent in a court of law. Bad news that they even had to go there in the first place. What a farce. A quick 'get the f#ck out of here or else I'll nick you' would have stopped the whole thing going as far as it did. Not letting the Pompey fans out at the same time would have stopped it happening at all... The powers that be didn't want that though - did they? Good to see justice prevail (for once). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Good news that all 5 were proven innocent in a court of law. Bad news that they even had to go there in the first place. What a farce. A quick 'get the f#ck out of here or else I'll nick you' would have stopped the whole thing going as far as it did. Not letting the Pompey fans out at the same time would have stopped it happening at all... The powers that be didn't want that though - did they? Good to see justice prevail (for once). It really wouldn't. If anything, sporadic arrests would have just enflamed the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rut Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 It really wouldn't. If anything, sporadic arrests would have just enflamed the situation. Maybe. We'll never know. Anyway time to put the incident to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 Football's a passionate spectator sport, it wouldn't be the same if fans didn't get animated. I wonder if you, saintjay77, are the type that goes and adds to the atmosphere or are one that sits on his hands with his mouth shut for 90 mins? If you were giving it (like 90% of the ground that day) to the skates, how is that acceptable inside the stadium but not moments later outside? It's hard to switch off immediately the game ends (those were the days) particularly when you've just been dicked by the local rivals and they're giving you pelters. I'm not excusing hooliganism, just think it's asking a bit much to expect an instant change in personality after 90 mins of passion (those were the days) particularly after a local derby. Football is not the only passionately supported sport though. Rugby has very passionate fans and cricket has fans singing and getting smashed all day long. Americans are passionate about there stop start handball game and also ice hockey and basket ball. All of which don't segregate the fans and all of which have match day experiences that are generally enjoyed by all. It's only football that is either stuck in the dark ages or is left with the mongs that don't know how to behave. And for the record I am as barmy as they come and will join in with the singing chanting and banter that goes on. I also play skater hockey and have done for around 15 years so I'm not immune to the rough stuff either. I just see supporting football as more of a family activity these days from young to old and think the idiots that follow it for a ruck are out dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 19 November, 2010 Share Posted 19 November, 2010 When your inside the stadium the game is on. Once the whistle blows and your outside, it's finished. There's a difference between being animated and being done for Affray and Violent disorder. We're all different, some that are more animated during the 90mins (usually admired for their passionate support by many) may take a little longer to calm down than others (particularly after losing to a bunch of cheats in the local derby) and display similar tendancies outside the ground they were in minutes before inside. And the whole reason for these threads is that fans weren't getting (or the prospect of) prison sentences for real acts of "Affray and Violent disorder" but for some, as proved, no more than shaking a fence. Football's a passionate spectator sport, it wouldn't be the same if fans didn't get animated. I wonder if you, saintjay77, are the type that goes and adds to the atmosphere or are one that sits on his hands with his mouth shut for 90 mins? If you were giving it (like 90% of the ground that day) to the skates, how is that acceptable inside the stadium but not moments later outside? It's hard to switch off immediately the game ends (those were the days) particularly when you've just been dicked by the local rivals and they're giving you pelters. I'm not excusing hooliganism, just think it's asking a bit much to expect an instant change in personality after 90 mins of passion (those were the days) particularly after a local derby. While I agree with parts of what you've just said, it's the bolded bit I don't really get. It's not the 70s and 80s any more, inside the stadium there is longer dart throwing, taking the other team's end and such like; it's just banter, pretty much the only things being thrown around are words. Everyone knows that you can mouth off all you like and nothing will happen, its part of football. And long may it continue by the way, I think segregation and banter between opposition crowds are what make football the best spectator sport in the world. However, outside the ground for some it became more than banter and had the potential to escalate into something far worse. Put the numbers into context of the amount surrounding the Pompey fans cordon, and the amount of people who've been charged with anything. Despite there being a few trumped up charges (which have now rightly been dismissed) in amongst the guilty verdicts, it is only very much a minority of people that even got charged with anything in the first place; and they were charged with offenses that were a lot worse than are normally seen inside a ground. Kraken, I can only say it from my view point. I can't understand if someone inside the stadium is frothing at the mouth one minute (as was the case with a lot of people I saw that day in the Kingsland) are gonna instantly change the second they step outside. I'm not saying that's right or wrong just that same feeling outside may have seen some banged up and others, (who may have contributed to this thread) who didn't end up in that situation, berating the ones that did. Differences of opinions I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 20 November, 2010 Share Posted 20 November, 2010 The comparitively small ammount of trouble after the said match justifies letting everyone out at the same time. If Pompey fans had been held in there would have been familys and innocent groups walking back to their cars minus a crowd to blend in with. It's in these secluded situations where the yobs would have attacked - you only have to see the so called Saints fan intimidating a middle aged skate ***** in her car (the clip is on youtube) - if they'd do that to a woman then what would he have done if an innocent middle aged man in a skate shirt had walked by? No matter how you try to wriggle about Darren the fact is that there was very little trouble after the game and that makes the operation a sucess. When maggie ordered the sinking of the Belgrano she did it to protect "our boys". When hants police let everyone out at the same time they did it to protect innocent fans. I for one applaud both decisions. Hold on,hold on, hold on... You're saying the fact that there was little trouble meant the police got it right? No... it says Saints fans got it right. We lost 4-1 at home and got a handful of fans nicked on trumped up charges... Now imagine the scenes at Fratton if they'd lost 4-1 at home? A few arrests? Not on your nelly.... And we'd have been held back for sure... I will never ever ever agree that allows Saints fans and Pompey fans to mingle after a game was the right move... never ever ever... It was foolish, naive and incompetent.... ... and just why is it being compared to an act of war? Irony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 20 November, 2010 Share Posted 20 November, 2010 Hold on,hold on, hold on... You're saying the fact that there was little trouble meant the police got it right? No... it says Saints fans got it right. We lost 4-1 at home and got a handful of fans nicked on trumped up charges... Now imagine the scenes at Fratton if they'd lost 4-1 at home? A few arrests? Not on your nelly.... And we'd have been held back for sure... I will never ever ever agree that allows Saints fans and Pompey fans to mingle after a game was the right move... never ever ever... It was foolish, naive and incompetent.... ... and just why is it being compared to an act of war? Irony? This - it was never going to work - ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 20 November, 2010 Share Posted 20 November, 2010 We're all different, some that are more animated during the 90mins (usually admired for their passionate support by many) may take a little longer to calm down than others (particularly after losing to a bunch of cheats in the local derby) and display similar tendancies outside the ground they were in minutes before inside. And the whole reason for these threads is that fans weren't getting (or the prospect of) prison sentences for real acts of "Affray and Violent disorder" but for some, as proved, no more than shaking a fence. Kraken, I can only say it from my view point. I can't understand if someone inside the stadium is frothing at the mouth one minute (as was the case with a lot of people I saw that day in the Kingsland) are gonna instantly change the second they step outside. I'm not saying that's right or wrong just that same feeling outside may have seen some banged up and others, (who may have contributed to this thread) who didn't end up in that situation, berating the ones that did. Differences of opinions I guess. For the sake of argument, If the person who would be frothing at the mouth spent the entire match sat amongst both home and away fans sharing the highs and lows from both ends, would they be frothing at the mouth so much? Sometimes the segregation can add to the whole tribal warfare that can and has done many times turn into much more than fan rivalry. There is something special about segregation at football though. An obvious direction to aim songs and chants or the feeling that the minority away fans are able to be heard over the majority home fans. But if people can't learn to behave at footy and segregation is here to stay then the compromise is police treating so called normal people like potential rioters and the punishments will always seem over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 20 November, 2010 Share Posted 20 November, 2010 For the sake of argument, If the person who would be frothing at the mouth spent the entire match sat amongst both home and away fans sharing the highs and lows from both ends, would they be frothing at the mouth so much? Sometimes the segregation can add to the whole tribal warfare that can and has done many times turn into much more than fan rivalry. There is something special about segregation at football though. An obvious direction to aim songs and chants or the feeling that the minority away fans are able to be heard over the majority home fans. But if people can't learn to behave at footy and segregation is here to stay then the compromise is police treating so called normal people like potential rioters and the punishments will always seem over the top. may all be true but what is your prectical solution to the problem at SMS, WHERE we appear to be taking part in some sort of social experiment that no other football club in the uk is involved in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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