aintforever Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 The ones wanting lighter sentances are often the ones that are likly to get caught comiting the crime. . Bit of a retarded thing to say, I doubt any hooligans post on here. I don't think jail sentences are appropriate and I've never been into fighting, even when I was that sort of age I was way too soft to want to fight anyone, let alone over a football match. If two groups of nutters want to beat themselves up over a football match it's not clever but it's not really crime of the century - there's alot worse stuff that goes on and those should be the people in jail IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Bit of a retarded thing to say, I doubt any hooligans post on here. I don't think jail sentences are appropriate and I've never been into fighting, even when I was that sort of age I was way too soft to want to fight anyone, let alone over a football match. If two groups of nutters want to beat themselves up over a football match it's not clever but it's not really crime of the century - there's alot worse stuff that goes on and those should be the people in jail IMO. I didnt point the finger at anyone in particular and didnt just mean people posting on here. In general its often the people who are likly to get caught doing something who are the ones thinking the punishment is too harsh. Prison time for shaking a fence at a football match against a slapped wrist for putting someone in hospitol on a night out does not seem appropriate at all. But that doesnt say to me that the 1st is wrong. It says the 2nd is wrong IMO. Tough sentances for football related crime is whats got rid of the hoolaganism of the 70's and 80's. Why change that approach becuase 2 groups of idiots still think its OK to behave like that? yes there is allot worse stuff that goes on, you and me both agree that its these people who should be in jail for their offences. Just because they are not you think football related violence should be let off the hook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 things were thrown at the skates, but the question I would have is were the people appearing in court those that threw things? The Daily Echo reports on evidence being given describing the scene as a whole, but from what I have read so far there is absolutely nothing describing these guys specific actions. I think I'd be pretty miffed if I was sent down for football hooliganism merely for shaking a fence and shouting obscenities at rival football fans. If ther is hard evidence of them chuckign stuff then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 (edited) Bit of a retarded thing to say, I doubt any hooligans post on here. I don't think jail sentences are appropriate and I've never been into fighting, even when I was that sort of age I was way too soft to want to fight anyone, let alone over a football match. If two groups of nutters want to beat themselves up over a football match it's not clever but it's not really crime of the century - there's alot worse stuff that goes on and those should be the people in jail IMO. Lets just be clear about these so-called "lads", those in court are aged 43, 28, 49, 46, 29 and 36. In other words, old enough to know better. Edited 10 November, 2010 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 things were thrown at the skates, but the question I would have is were the people appearing in court those that threw things? The Daily Echo reports on evidence being given describing the scene as a whole, but from what I have read so far there is absolutely nothing describing these guys specific actions. I think I'd be pretty miffed if I was sent down for football hooliganism merely for shaking a fence and shouting obscenities at rival football fans. If ther is hard evidence of them chuckign stuff then so be it. And the police will have to prove that those charged were indeed throwing objects. Pretty much all of the accused have admitted that they shook the fence but deny throwing anything (though I think one admitted making a throwing gesture but did not actually throw an object). Without any CCTV I'd say the police wouldn't have a prayer of a conviction, so I imagine there must be evidence to back up the accusations otherwise it really shouldn't have even got to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 things were thrown at the skates, but the question I would have is were the people appearing in court those that threw things? The Daily Echo reports on evidence being given describing the scene as a whole, but from what I have read so far there is absolutely nothing describing these guys specific actions. I think I'd be pretty miffed if I was sent down for football hooliganism merely for shaking a fence and shouting obscenities at rival football fans. If ther is hard evidence of them chuckign stuff then so be it. I would be suprised if anyone gets sent down without there actually being any evidence of them doing something wrong. Shaking a fence sounds pretty pathetic, but I suppose the old bills angle is 1 person starts to shake a fence, others think its a good idea and join in, fence gives in and everyone piles in for a ruck on the street. While that didnt actually happen for what ever reason the old bill are probably arguing the intent was there. Punish the one's who intentially or un-intentially started the possible scenario and maybe next time there is a local derby with a dividing line, oposing fans will respect the boundrys a bit more and lower the risk of a brawl even further? IMO the dividing line between oposing fans at any football match actually adds to the chances of the situation getting out of hand. The Cup final in 2003 had saints and arsenal fans mixing in pubs all over Cardiff with out any problems and police were visable but relaxed. The world cup had un-segregated stadiums for all matches including England v Germany where we got stuffed. How many England V Germany games in the past have gone on without any problems? You could argue that the mongs didnt get a chance to get over there and cause trouble for the World cup but removing segregation has not been tried other than some pretty meaningless friendlys so its hard to know if it would help locally or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Be interesting to see what happens to this lot if Saints v Pompey is being seen as some sort of precedent... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11724980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Soze Posted 10 November, 2010 Author Share Posted 10 November, 2010 I know of one lad who just got a not guilty verdict in court. Just goes to show much a farce this whole thing was. The OB along with the Echo for printing names and addresses should be hung up to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 A man goes through the justice system and has his innocence proven? What a farce! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 (no smoke without fire though, eh?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 I know of one lad who just got a not guilty verdict in court. Just goes to show much a farce this whole thing was. The OB along with the Echo for printing names and addresses should be hung up to dry. Bet he thinks twice next time he see's a fence at a footy match though, along with the other few hundred people who thought it might have been a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 What a surprise! If there should any head hanging to be done it should be you and if there is any hanging to be done it should be done to your friends, the criminals. You cannot be soft with these people. It really is a short step from coin throwing to physically attacking someone with a knife. Given the choice of putting these potential murderers away for a long time or being potentially murdered, just for going to a football game, I know which I would prefer to happen. Soze's mate (a mutual friend) has just been found unanimously not guilty by a jury of 12 peers. An apology for acusing the defendent of being guilty when he should be presumed innocent should be forthcoming from yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Bet he thinks twice next time he see's a fence at a footy match though, along with the other few hundred people who thought it might have been a good idea. He did not "shake a fence" or anything like that. He was found not guilty as he was - not guilty. So he will do exactly the same thing again. Why, after being found not guilty should he do anything different? He didn't break the law. If anyone should think differently in the future it's the Police for taking an obviously innocent man to court and plastering his name and address all over the local media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 He did not "shake a fence" or anything like that. He was found not guilty as he was - not guilty. So he will do exactly the same thing again. Why, after being found not guilty should he do anything different? He didn't break the law. If anyone should think differently in the future it's the Police for taking an obviously innocent man to court and plastering his name and address all over the local media. Did I say he shook a fence? The police went for him for a reason so he must of been on there radar for something though. The fact that they couldnt prove anything in court is either cause they have the wrong man or there is no hard evidence to prove what they say. I said along time ago that the Police will need to prove people did something to be able to get them sent down. Any solicitor should be able to get someone off if there is a lack of evidence!!! Assuming he is completly inocent, next time he goes to a footy match and there is a dividing fence how likly is he to put himself in a position where he is at risk of being nabbed again? Does he go and stand with the people shaking the fence and throwing things or does he stand somewhere else that is not likly to be associated with the idiots? IMO he would be stupid not to think twice, along with every other footy fan that finds themselves in a similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 FAR more "missiles" were thrown from the skates side, how many of them have been up in court? Or were all the cameras aiming towards the Saints fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Kaiser Soze You say they did nothing wrong then mention half way down the page that your "mate" threw a coin? It might seem trivial to you but if your son/daughter was struck on a head with a coin im sure you would be giving the evidence to send the thrower down. Judging from the Echo article they used threatening behaviour in a group of more than 12 so surely Sec1 POA would apply.. The Public Order Act 1986 s.1 states: 1) Where twelve or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose is guilty of riot. 2) It is immaterial whether or not the twelve or more use or threaten unlawful violence simultaneously. 3) The common purpose may be inferred from conduct. 4) No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at the scene. 5) Riot may be committed in private as well as in public places. You could also read up on the Football (Disorder) Act 2000 Well in that case Soze's mate was completely innocent of all points above as he was found not guilty earlier today. He will be back for the Posh game next week after missing (amongst other games) the JPT final - Good on him, hope we get a result! Still think it's disgusting his (and the other co-defendents) name was plastered all over the paper whilst he was still presumed innocent. Funny how the only trial to go to a Jury (all the others jailed plead guilty) have been found not guilty, seems the general public can see sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Well in that case Soze's mate was completely innocent of all points above as he was found not guilty earlier today. He will be back for the Posh game next week after missing (amongst other games) the JPT final - Good on him, hope we get a result! Still think it's disgusting his (and the other co-defendents) name was plastered all over the paper whilst he was still presumed innocent. Funny how the only trial to go to a Jury (all the others jailed plead guilty) have been found not guilty, seems the general public can see sense? Pompey did no wrong either as in a court of Law and in front of Justice Mann they were given the green light to carry on as they were. All makes sense now. ;o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 FAR more "missiles" were thrown from the skates side, how many of them have been up in court? Or were all the cameras aiming towards the Saints fans. I think thats one area that the law doesnt make sense. The Minority crowd were being protected by the police as they were under threat from the larger crowd. Yet if english fans go abroad we are treated like the hostile mob and get treated like the trouble is all our fault. In either situation the old bill should treat everyone the same and if they are going to nik saints fans for throwing something, then they should be doing the same to the oposing fans. These situations are not completly one sided and should not be treated as if they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um Bongo Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Well in that case Soze's mate was completely innocent of all points above as he was found not guilty earlier today. He will be back for the Posh game next week after missing (amongst other games) the JPT final - Good on him, hope we get a result! Still think it's disgusting his (and the other co-defendents) name was plastered all over the paper whilst he was still presumed innocent. Funny how the only trial to go to a Jury (all the others jailed plead guilty) have been found not guilty, seems the general public can see sense? End of the day, they have acted like knobs, been caught, some have been banged up and some haven't. They'll learn their lesson (hopefully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugarbabe64 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Wonder if any of the Students smashing windows in London will get dealt with in a similar way !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Jazzbo Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Wonder if any of the Students smashing windows in London will get dealt with in a similar way !!!! I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenevaSaint Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Still think it's disgusting his (and the other co-defendents) name was plastered all over the paper whilst he was still presumed innocent. Funny how the only trial to go to a Jury (all the others jailed plead guilty) have been found not guilty, seems the general public can see sense? I've got this issue with the "justice" system full stop. Once you're in the public domain as a rapist, football hooligan etc the **** sticks regardless of innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Wonder if any of the Students smashing windows in London will get dealt with in a similar way !!!! The way the police have sat back and done not allot it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they will give a few people the 5 o'clock knock based on the CCTV evidence they get rather than steaming in trying to Nik people now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denzil Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Great news today. A.C.A.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumush Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 The sad fact is that these lads are guilty of nothing more than a bit of sabre rattling whilst the real action was carried out far from the ground in an organised manner away from CCTV and other interferences. You mean like the Joiners confrontation a few years ago. Where did that happen and who won ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liebherr driver Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Dorset Police certainly seem to be, for the total misuse of power meted out to a good Saints supporting friend of mine and his girlfriend among others. Can't go into details, but the power they yield when misused can seriously ruin your life, while, for the moment at least, they are answerable to nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 surprised no one asked the OB who gave evidence why in one part of Hampshire DO YOU LOCK AWAY FANS IN for up to 45 mins after a game but at SMS you do not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 surprised no one asked the OB who gave evidence why in one part of Hampshire DO YOU LOCK AWAY FANS IN for up to 45 mins after a game but at SMS you do not ? I would have. This is what gets me - the sheer hypocrisy of the OB is astounding. They absolutely love to see (and of course film) the bother just so they can say that they are stamping out football violence/hooliganism - which has been happening for close on a century - but there actions in fact add to the problem. Football fans have become an easy target - you only have to read some of the comments from the hang em high brigade on here to see just how easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Well in that case Soze's mate was completely innocent of all points above as he was found not guilty earlier today. He will be back for the Posh game next week after missing (amongst other games) the JPT final - Good on him, hope we get a result! Still think it's disgusting his (and the other co-defendents) name was plastered all over the paper whilst he was still presumed innocent. Funny how the only trial to go to a Jury (all the others jailed plead guilty) have been found not guilty, seems the general public can see sense? terrorists in northern ireland got found not guilty on many occaisions...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vershinin Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 I'm ****ing glad you guys m8 got off hopefully they all will. What a load of **** this is. As has been said before the real fight would have taken place ages away from the ground but the police failed to do anything about that. These guys aren't hooligans but the police needed to look as if they had done something so took the easy option. If these so called hooligans had actually been in danger of harming people presumably the police would have done something then and there rather than just standing and filming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 terrorists in northern ireland got found not guilty on many occaisions...... Have you really just compared some bloke shouting at Pompey fans to a Northern Ireland terrorist? Really?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Have you really just compared some bloke shouting at Pompey fans to a Northern Ireland terrorist? Really?! I think you've probably misunderstood the point TDD is making - which is not that the crimes are the same, but justice is not always served. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 When I went to the Carling Cup Game a Pompey fan threw a ten pence piece which hit me. I hope when they go eventually bust that 10p would have saved them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Would you get the same sentence if you threw a 1p coin as you would a £2 coin or maybe a chocolate coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Would you get the same sentence if you threw a 1p coin as you would a £2 coin or maybe a chocolate coin? I think what you're asking there is does the sentence change based on the severity of the change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Soze's mate (a mutual friend) has just been found unanimously not guilty by a jury of 12 peers. An apology for acusing the defendent of being guilty when he should be presumed innocent should be forthcoming from yourself. No, I don't think so. You might be happy with the liberal, PC brigade letting these "people" off, but I (and really, I think ALL of us) know what was really going on that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Any news on their trial? Hope the jury is not bent and they deliver a not guilty verdict to all concerned. The behaviour of the old bill stitching lads up recently is nothing short of scandelous. God bless these lads. I will go to bed tonight praying for their freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Pompey fans have been kept behind at St Marys before because in the FA Cup game when Crouch scored the last minute penalty against them,they were not allowed out until most Saints fans had left the area.There were no problems that day because of this. Thet were only let out at the same time in February,because either.........the police were incompetent,............or they wanted to justify their use of so many officers (most on overtime,i bet),and the use of the police horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 I think what you're asking there is does the sentence change based on the severity of the change... brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickyhale Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 (edited) Criminal types Deppo discharge today with full cost. Well done Tim hope to see you again at the games soon unlike the yellow bellys on here that hide behind there key boards who never even go to a home game let alone an away game. Well done Tim we will have a pint soon at the next away game. Once again well done and how about innocent till proven guilty Edited 10 November, 2010 by dickyhale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocco boxo Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Pompey fans have been kept behind at St Marys before because in the FA Cup game when Crouch scored the last minute penalty against them,they were not allowed out until most Saints fans had left the area.There were no problems that day because of this. Thet were only let out at the same time in February,because either.........the police were incompetent,............or they wanted to justify their use of so many officers (most on overtime,i bet),and the use of the police horses. Spot on, this so annoys me and the Police have not justified letting those ****s out at the same time as us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Pompey fans have been kept behind at St Marys before because in the FA Cup game when Crouch scored the last minute penalty against them,they were not allowed out until most Saints fans had left the area.There were no problems that day because of this. Thet were only let out at the same time in February,because either.........the police were incompetent,............or they wanted to justify their use of so many officers (most on overtime,i bet),and the use of the police horses. They put a bloody fence up to keep fans apart. Why bother keeping them in after when there is a fence there? Get them in, have the match and get rid of them asap. Why not punish a few mongs who don't respect the boundries put in place? If they don't have enough evidence to prove the accused guilty then the accused will walk free. I agree that the trial by press shouldn't have happened but if your going to try and make an example of someone it is no use doing it in secret so catch 22. The old bill should have made sure those named were nailed on Certs to be found guilty and been obviously guilty of something worth while. Could of done with nabbing a few skates throwing coins and so on too. None of that excuses the idiots that got them selves in this situation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 ... ..... .... .... the police needed to look as if they had done something so took the easy option. If these so called hooligans had actually been in danger of harming people presumably the police would have done something then and there rather than just standing and filming. ... .... .... because either.........the police were incompetent,............or they wanted to justify their use of so many officers (most on overtime,i bet),and the use of the police horses. I don't know anything about this case but, from what I read and hear from people there seems to have been more to this than meets the eye. So I have to ask this question, while not condoning any alleged unlawful acts. Were these men the people who the Police were actually after or were they minnows, away from the real action and because the police had no clue they needed to tick boxes for the Police unit to justify the money expended on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Wonder if any of the Students smashing windows in London will get dealt with in a similar way !!!! when the police DO do something about these protests...they also get hammered about being heavy handed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 Criminal types Deppo discharge today with full cost. Well done Tim hope to see you again at the games soon unlike the yellow bellys on here that hide behind there key boards who never even go to a home game let alone an away game. Well done Tim we will have a pint soon at the next away game. Once again well done and how about innocent till proven guilty This post is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 This post is awesome. I didn't really understand that post TBH lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 10 November, 2010 Share Posted 10 November, 2010 So what would have happened after all their pointless, i'm hard, gobbing off from behind the confines of a metal fence and police acually caused a large amount of the pompey lot turning on them and then a large amount more of the saints lot starting on the Pompey lot ?? Thus catching the innocent women and children and people that aren't a bunch of mindless mongs in the middle of a near enough riot ?? If they are proven innocent then fair play, but if they are found guilty they only have themselves to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Gorilla 5 Posted 11 November, 2010 Share Posted 11 November, 2010 They put a bloody fence up to keep fans apart. Why bother keeping them in after when there is a fence there? Get them in, have the match and get rid of them asap. Why not punish a few mongs who don't respect the boundries put in place? If they don't have enough evidence to prove the accused guilty then the accused will walk free. I agree that the trial by press shouldn't have happened but if your going to try and make an example of someone it is no use doing it in secret so catch 22. The old bill should have made sure those named were nailed on Certs to be found guilty and been obviously guilty of something worth while. Could of done with nabbing a few skates throwing coins and so on too. None of that excuses the idiots that got them selves in this situation though. Charging decisions and delivering the case and evidence at court is down to the Crown Prosecution Service and it is they that have to make sure that "those named were nailed on Certs to be found guilty" and not the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 11 November, 2010 Share Posted 11 November, 2010 I know of one lad who just got a not guilty verdict in court. Just goes to show much a farce this whole thing was. The OB along with the Echo for printing names and addresses should be hung up to dry. That is wrong. It's almost as if they were guilty until proven innocent. I've noticed this happens a lot in local newspapers and it's not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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