First 10 games - a comparison

[Pongo]

Some interesting stats and I also wonder why Gray, Wigley and Sturrock were omitted.

 

Was it perhaps that because both Wigley and Gray only managed 7 points, whereas Sturrock managed 12 (not 14) and it would have perhaps highlighted those appointments and sackings as being unsound??????

 

As the statistics were taken from a site renowned as a refuge for "Lowe Luvvies" it wouldn't suprise me.

[alpine_saint]

Wow, conclusive proof if ever it were needed, of just how shiit Burley was.

 

LOL at the Pearson knockers...

[um pahars]

As the statistics were taken from a site renowned as a refuge for "Lowe Luvvies" it wouldn't suprise me.

 

You cynic you!!!!!!!!

 

I'm sure there's a valid reason for not including 40% of our recent managers (it's just that I'm struggling to think of what the reason would be).

[VectisSaint]

Oh right. Only the play off final then. So we were a bit of bad luck away from just a silly pointless play off final. Cheers for clearing up the unimportance and non-achievement that was made.

I never said the Final was silly and pointless, those are your words made up because you can't read and misinterpret what you thought you were reading.

 

But if you think it would have been silly and pointless thats up to you. Fact remains however that we didn't reach the final, we were knocked out by bad luck before that. Too many people seem to forget this, and seem to want to rewrite history by thinking because we lost to Derby in the semis that we would have won the final. Maybe we would have and maybe we wouldn't, who knows.

[sadoldgit]

Wow, conclusive proof if ever it were needed, of just how shiit Burley was.

 

LOL at the Pearson knockers...

 

Would have put money at Alpine biting at this one.

 

LOL at Alpine for ignoring the fact that he got us into the play offs and still has the highest points per game ration of any manager since the war.

 

But hey, why let a few stats get in the way of your agenda eh Alpine?

 

Or perhaps we should just take a random selection of games rather the the whole lot in order to prove our point?

 

BUrley inherited a right mess from Redknapp and it took him a while to turn things around, but turn around they did. We had a great finish to his first season and but for some idiot play from a couple of players would have made the play offs.

 

Indeed, how useless was that?

 

Alpine hero, as much as he might be a nice bloke, only managed what 3 wins out of 13 and damned near took us down.

 

Dump your prejudice for a change and look at the facts.

[saintjinksie]

With thanks and apologies to someone who posted this on SaintsList, I thought it was worth sharing here too. I can't see that anyone else has posted it, but apologies if I've missed it.

 

After our first 10 league games under JP, Saints have earnt 11 points. Here is the record of our other recent managers over their first 10 league games:

 

Close-season appointments:

 

Ian Branfoot - 8 points

Dave Jones - 7 points

Chris Nicholl - 8 points

Dave Merrington - 6 points

Graeme Souness - 10 points

 

Mid-season appointments:

 

Alan Ball - 12 points

George Burley - 5 points

Glenn Hoddle - 14 points

Harry Redknapp - 7 points

Nigel Pearson - 12 points

Gordon Strachan - 13 points

 

Depending on your outlook and opinion, I have no doubt that these stats will be twisted every which way and to suit a variety of arguments, and I fully accept that all of the above have had widely differing circumstances to deal with on their appointment, but as far I'm concerned, considering the age and experience of the squad and the financial situation we're in, JP and the current team are doing ok.

 

I'd like them to be doing much better, and there are lots of things we need to improve on, obviously, but we could be doing a hell of a lot worse too and so I'm comfortable with the status quo and fully support JP and the squad in their efforts.

 

 

Its hard to campare Prem and CCC games, this is pointless.

[OldNick]

Would have put money at Alpine biting at this one.

 

LOL at Alpine for ignoring the fact that he got us into the play offs and still has the highest points per game ration of any manager since the war.

 

But hey, why let a few stats get in the way of your agenda eh Alpine?

 

Or perhaps we should just take a random selection of games rather the the whole lot in order to prove our point?

 

BUrley inherited a right mess from Redknapp and it took him a while to turn things around, but turn around they did. We had a great finish to his first season and but for some idiot play from a couple of players would have made the play offs.

 

Indeed, how useless was that?

 

Alpine hero, as much as he might be a nice bloke, only managed what 3 wins out of 13 and damned near took us down.

 

Dump your prejudice for a change and look at the facts.

Alpine is on fire this week..not litrally of course , as it is on the back of a defeat and the extra bonus of the international break and so can strut around in the told you so mode.Look at the threads from the Donny game through to saturday and the difference.As for NP I was not impressed with him but would have given him a chance even though he took us to the precipice

[Greenridge]

 

BUrley inherited a right mess from Redknapp and it took him a while to turn things around, but turn around they did. We had a great finish to his first season and but for some idiot play from a couple of players would have made the play offs.

 

Indeed, how useless was that?

 

Alpine hero, as much as he might be a nice bloke, only managed what 3 wins out of 13 and damned near took us down.

 

Dump your prejudice for a change and look at the facts.

 

It's quite convenient that you recognise the mess Burley inherited from Redknapp but not the mess Pearson inherited from Burley / Gorman / Dodd. There ends any credibility to your post.

[St Marco]

Would have put money at Alpine biting at this one.

 

LOL at Alpine for ignoring the fact that he got us into the play offs and still has the highest points per game ration of any manager since the war.

 

But hey, why let a few stats get in the way of your agenda eh Alpine?

 

Or perhaps we should just take a random selection of games rather the the whole lot in order to prove our point?

 

BUrley inherited a right mess from Redknapp and it took him a while to turn things around, but turn around they did. We had a great finish to his first season and but for some idiot play from a couple of players would have made the play offs.

 

Indeed, how useless was that?

 

Alpine hero, as much as he might be a nice bloke, only managed what 3 wins out of 13 and damned near took us down.

 

Dump your prejudice for a change and look at the facts.

 

The problem is though Pearson had a 0.009 points difference to him and didn't spend £12m on achiving it. It's things like that which highlight how bad Burley had actually done. We appointed Burley to get promoted back to the main league, he failed. We appointed Pearson to stop us being relegated, he succeeded. Those are the only facts which matter to me.

[Guest Hacienda]

It's quite convenient that you recognise the mess Burley inherited from Redknapp but not the mess Pearson inherited from Burley / Gorman / Dodd. There ends any credibility to your post.

 

Don't confuse him, he's not that bright.

[sadoldgit]

Don't confuse him, he's not that bright.

 

Ah, Alpine in disguise! What is with you two? Long lost brothers? One in Austria and one in Spain brought back together by Spite-Fuelled Agenda-Ridden Football Fans Reunited?

 

As far as I know, Alpine has never met either Burley, Pearson or JP. Yet he has decided that Pearson and JP are thoroughly decent chaps worthy of his admiration and support and that Burley is fit for nothing but a dog's abuse.

 

What is Burley's crime? Lack of success.

 

I am no spring chicken and in my lifetime the only two managers have given SFC any measure of success. They would be Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy.

 

So then, why no bile and hate agenda against all the other manangers that have failed to give us success Alpine/Hacienda?

 

You guys (guy if you are one in the same) need to get out a bit more.

 

Maybe I am not that bright, but I am bright enough to know that this is only football and that most managers at most football clubs will never deliver what the fans clamour for.

 

If you can't see that and have to take your frustations out on a bloke who is only doing a job, then perhaps my Alpine supporting friend, you are not so bright either?

 

By the way Hacienda, for one not so bright, I would gladly have a manager at SFC right now who could deliver 1.54 points a game, wouldn't you?

[sadoldgit]

It's quite convenient that you recognise the mess Burley inherited from Redknapp but not the mess Pearson inherited from Burley / Gorman / Dodd. There ends any credibility to your post.

 

1.54 points per game. That is all the credibility I am interested in.

[Guest Hacienda]

Ah, Alpine in disguise! What is with you two? Long lost brothers? One in Austria and one in Spain brought back together by Spite-Fuelled Agenda-Ridden Football Fans Reunited?

 

LOL at the idiot who thinks I'm in Spain.

 

LOL at the idiot who thinks I was/am anti Burley.

 

Your alzheimer's is clearly playing up.

[um pahars]

Alpine hero, as much as he might be a nice bloke, only managed what 3 wins out of 13 and damned near took us down.

 

Dump your prejudice for a change and look at the facts.

 

And from those 13 games, Pearson earned us 16 points. That was despite inheriting a right mess from Dodd/Gorman/Burley.

 

In that context, a points ratio of 1.2 per game doesn't look that bad (he was no Ferguson mind).

 

Jan needs to pick up 5 points from the next three games to equal that record (and he's had the whole of the close season to prepare and mould his squad!!!). Will Jan measure up to Pearson's 13 game record???

[Mole]

Sad Old Git why can't you just face it that Burley was a an un-motivated dunk?

 

It was obviously a mistake replacing him with Dodd and Gorman, but surely this added turbulence only emphasises the great job Nigel Pearson did to turn things around.

[the Vicar]

Shows that NP wasn't doing bad ? He is in the same ballpark as Ball, Hoddle and Strachan, probably our most successful managers in recent years.

[alpine_saint]

It's quite convenient that you recognise the mess Burley inherited from Redknapp but not the mess Pearson inherited from Burley / Gorman / Dodd. There ends any credibility to your post.

 

Damn ! You beat me to it. SOGGYs posts get more an more ridiculous and less credible with every passing (restricted to 3 posts) day...

[alpine_saint]

LOL. SOGGY really lost the plot on here today, didnt he ?

 

At least he's gone back to referring to Lawrie Mac...

[alpine_saint]

So then, why no bile and hate agenda against all the other manangers that have failed to give us success Alpine/Hacienda?

 

 

Maybe because no other manager literally piissed, the golden highly-financed opportunity afforded to them, up against the wall in such spectaular manner as Burley did ?

[Chez]

As for NP I was not impressed with him but would have given him a chance even though he took us to the precipice

 

some might say he stopped the titanic sinking having not been the captain when it hit the iceberg. OK, so perhaps not in those exact words...

[Kenilworthy]

You cynic you!!!!!!!!

 

I'm sure there's a valid reason for not including 40% of our recent managers (it's just that I'm struggling to think of what the reason would be).

 

I compiled the original stats. And there is a good reason for leaving out Wigley, Gray and Sturrock and that is because their careers were even shorter than is normal for Saints managers and I was interested in looking at the early performance of managers who went on to have at least a season in the job. I am certainly not anti Sturrock, I would happily have seen him given a proper go.

 

I can already hear the 'ahas' about including Pearson as he only had a short career. But I left him in as the most recent manager and the one who cames closest to JP's circumstances.

 

I totally agree about the lack of statistical validity. However, whatever division we are in, with whatever playing resources and whatever financial considerations it is inescapable out that not one of them produced what you might call a truly outstanding start, though a number (especially Dave Jones who started really badly) did go on to prove capable managers.

[Greenridge]

 

I can already hear the 'ahas' about including Pearson as he only had a short career. But I left him in as the most recent manager and the one who cames closest to JP's circumstances.

 

I totally agree about the lack of statistical validity. However, whatever division we are in, with whatever playing resources and whatever financial considerations it is inescapable out that not one of them produced what you might call a truly outstanding start, though a number (especially Dave Jones who started really badly) did go on to prove capable managers.

 

Sorry but you've lost me there. The circumstances of the two are not even remotely similar. Pearson came in at the end of the season to someone else's team that was rapidly in freefall and had to hit the ground running. JP had the whole of preseason and a team made up of personnel of his own choice.

[Dalek2003]

With thanks and apologies to someone who posted this on SaintsList, I thought it was worth sharing here too. I can't see that anyone else has posted it, but apologies if I've missed it.

 

After our first 10 league games under JP, Saints have earnt 11 points. Here is the record of our other recent managers over their first 10 league games:

 

Close-season appointments:

 

Ian Branfoot - 8 points

Dave Jones - 7 points

Chris Nicholl - 8 points

Dave Merrington - 6 points

Graeme Souness - 10 points

 

Mid-season appointments:

 

Alan Ball - 12 points

George Burley - 5 points

Glenn Hoddle - 14 points

Harry Redknapp - 7 points

Nigel Pearson - 12 points

Gordon Strachan - 13 points

 

Depending on your outlook and opinion, I have no doubt that these stats will be twisted every which way and to suit a variety of arguments, and I fully accept that all of the above have had widely differing circumstances to deal with on their appointment, but as far I'm concerned, considering the age and experience of the squad and the financial situation we're in, JP and the current team are doing ok.

 

I'd like them to be doing much better, and there are lots of things we need to improve on, obviously, but we could be doing a hell of a lot worse too and so I'm comfortable with the status quo and fully support JP and the squad in their efforts.

 

 

Glenn Hoddle seems to have a record, would have made the ideal choice for the start of the 2004/5 season, oh but, well never mind, some mouthy gob****es knew better and scuppered his return. Still, good to have principles. After all we are not like the blue noses taking back a manager. Yes, thanks guys i can take comfort in that, whilst we languish at the foot of the CCC.

[um pahars]

I compiled the original stats. And there is a good reason for leaving out Wigley, Gray and Sturrock and that is because their careers were even shorter than is normal for Saints managers and I was interested in looking at the early performance of managers who went on to have at least a season in the job.

 

But the longevity of their career after those 10 games is irrelevant in this analysis.

 

This was solely looking at their first ten games (and even Wigley and Gray managed 10 games, 10 games too many mind).

 

I can already hear the 'ahas' about including Pearson as he only had a short career. But I left him in as the most recent manager and the one who cames closest to JP's circumstances.

 

Aha, but you've included Pearson and he only had a short career.

 

One inherited someone elses demoralised squad midway through a season, the other had all of pre season (and 8+ signings) and a revolutionary coaching set up to work his magic. Hardly comparable.

 

I totally agree about the lack of statistical validity.

 

And in all honesty, that's where this debate should have ended, as it is impossible to do any comparison worth it's salt.

 

Opinions are one thing, but trying to wrap them up in "statistical analysis" is another thing entirely!!!

[Delmary]

With thanks and apologies to someone who posted this on SaintsList, I thought it was worth sharing here too. I can't see that anyone else has posted it, but apologies if I've missed it.

 

After our first 10 league games under JP, Saints have earnt 11 points. Here is the record of our other recent managers over their first 10 league games:

 

Close-season appointments:

 

Ian Branfoot - 8 points

Dave Jones - 7 points

Chris Nicholl - 8 points

Dave Merrington - 6 points

Graeme Souness - 10 points

 

Mid-season appointments:

 

Alan Ball - 12 points

George Burley - 5 points

Glenn Hoddle - 14 points

Harry Redknapp - 7 points

Nigel Pearson - 12 points

Gordon Strachan - 13 points

 

Depending on your outlook and opinion, I have no doubt that these stats will be twisted every which way and to suit a variety of arguments, and I fully accept that all of the above have had widely differing circumstances to deal with on their appointment, but as far I'm concerned, considering the age and experience of the squad and the financial situation we're in, JP and the current team are doing ok.

 

I'd like them to be doing much better, and there are lots of things we need to improve on, obviously, but we could be doing a hell of a lot worse too and so I'm comfortable with the status quo and fully support JP and the squad in their efforts.

I understand where you're coming from but you really can't compare managerial premiership stats against CC ones. In the CC we're not playing the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, ManU, Chelsea etc. In premiership terms we were a mid to lower table team but in the CC we're one of the big boys.

[eelpie]

With thanks and apologies to someone who posted this on SaintsList, I thought it was worth sharing here too. I can't see that anyone else has posted it, but apologies if I've missed it.

 

After our first 10 league games under JP, Saints have earnt 11 points. Here is the record of our other recent managers over their first 10 league games:

 

Close-season appointments:

 

Ian Branfoot - 8 points

Dave Jones - 7 points

Chris Nicholl - 8 points

Dave Merrington - 6 points

Graeme Souness - 10 points

 

Mid-season appointments:

 

Alan Ball - 12 points

George Burley - 5 points

Glenn Hoddle - 14 points

Harry Redknapp - 7 points

Nigel Pearson - 12 points

Gordon Strachan - 13 points

 

Depending on your outlook and opinion, I have no doubt that these stats will be twisted every which way and to suit a variety of arguments, and I fully accept that all of the above have had widely differing circumstances to deal with on their appointment, but as far I'm concerned, considering the age and experience of the squad and the financial situation we're in, JP and the current team are doing ok.

 

I'd like them to be doing much better, and there are lots of things we need to improve on, obviously, but we could be doing a hell of a lot worse too and so I'm comfortable with the status quo and fully support JP and the squad in their efforts.

 

The only relevant comparison is Nigel Pearson, and we escaped relegation by a whisker. 11 points is not enough, so far.

[Alain Perrin]

What a pointless debate.

 

FYI Pearson manages Leicester, JP manages Saints. But I think physics dictates if you reach a third page on this subject they'll switch, so post away wierdos!

[sadoldgit]

LOL at the idiot who thinks I'm in Spain.

 

LOL at the idiot who thinks I was/am anti Burley.

 

Your alzheimer's is clearly playing up.

 

You have Alpine's lack of char so I definately think you two have something going on.

 

Just FYI, I don't think you live in Spain, I was just using your name and applying a litle imgaination to make a point.

 

If you are not anti-Burley why do you continue to rally to Alpine's defence everytime I challenge him on his obsessive hatred of the man?

 

Now back to Alpine. You are still doing it aren't you? When faced with hard facts there is not response other than your usual digs.

 

Tell me, what would you give for 1.54 points a game?

 

Tell me, have you ever actually met all of these men who you have made judgements on or are you just going by what you read on internet forums?

 

Tell me, what do you hate George Burley so much? Did he run off with your wife? Burgle your house?

 

Tell me, why no scorn for all of the other Southampton managers who have failed to deliver success?

 

And just to help me get a fix on where you are coming from, feel free to tell me how many live games you saw under a) Burley b) Pearson and c) JP so that I know that your judgement on their management abilities are based on what you, yourself, have witnessed.

 

Hacienda, let's see if Alpine can manage these questions on his own shall we?

[alpine_saint]

You have Alpine's lack of char so I definately think you two have something going on.

 

Just FYI, I don't think you live in Spain, I was just using your name and applying a litle imgaination to make a point.

 

If you are not anti-Burley why do you continue to rally to Alpine's defence everytime I challenge him on his obsessive hatred of the man?

 

Now back to Alpine. You are still doing it aren't you? When faced with hard facts there is not response other than your usual digs.

 

Tell me, what would you give for 1.54 points a game?

 

Tell me, have you ever actually met all of these men who you have made judgements on or are you just going by what you read on internet forums?

 

Tell me, what do you hate George Burley so much? Did he run off with your wife? Burgle your house?

 

Tell me, why no scorn for all of the other Southampton managers who have failed to deliver success?

 

And just to help me get a fix on where you are coming from, feel free to tell me how many live games you saw under a) Burley b) Pearson and c) JP so that I know that your judgement on their management abilities are based on what you, yourself, have witnessed.

 

Hacienda, let's see if Alpine can manage these questions on his own shall we?

 

I've answered every one of these questions, more than once, over...ooooh, must be nearly the last 18months.

 

I genuinely pity you if there is something wrong with your memory where you cannot retain information, or if you are actually such a bigot you feel the compulsive need to keep asking the same boring, tedious, banal, anal-retentive questions of people (especially me seeing as you appear utterly obsessed) time and time and time again in the hope of one day getting either answers you want to hear, the opportunity to piisss higher up the wall than everybody else for once, or some crumb by which you can justify you completely irrational and obsessive love for your Footballing Messiah.

 

Suffice to say, I am not going to indulge you weird obsession and take the time to answer them yet again. Especially as you whine about "digs" then resort to personal abuse to try to trivialise the reasons why I rate Burley alongside Steve Wigley as the worst managers SFC has ever had.

 

Burley is a washed-up; a complete busted flush. He's lost it as a manager. He's gone to the only position on the planet that would take him after the howling mess he made out of Southampton Football Club; Scotland and him deserve each other.

 

F**king deal with it...

[CB Fry]

The one critical flaw in this argument. Other then Pearson and Burley the others were in the Premiership. Could you see Jan getting 11 points in that league with this squad? If Rotheram,QPR and Coventry can turn us over how would we do against say the european champions? It would be a massacre.

 

 

Why would be playing a load of kids in the Premier League?

 

I'd like to hear your suggestion for any manager on earth that could get 11 points in the Premier League with this team. That's a nonsense comparison, and hardly a "critical flaw" in the original argument.

 

Remember, Sunderland have spent about £80m in two seasons and will be happy enough with 16th.

[OldNick]

Opinions are one thing, but trying to wrap them up in "statistical analysis" is another thing entirely!!!

Oh the irony, lol

[Alucard]

And from those 13 games, Pearson earned us 16 points. That was despite inheriting a right mess from Dodd/Gorman/Burley.

 

In that context, a points ratio of 1.2 per game doesn't look that bad (he was no Ferguson mind).

 

Jan needs to pick up 5 points from the next three games to equal that record (and he's had the whole of the close season to prepare and mould his squad!!!). Will Jan measure up to Pearson's 13 game record???

 

 

It's a pity JP hasn't been able to bring in 4 experienced PL / ex PL players on PL stye wages as NP did in the form of Wright, Lucketti, Pearce and Pericard. Knowing you've only got to plug the holes temporarily and can bring in players on high wages to do it, is a lot easier than having to build a team for a season and beyond from scratch. Especially so when you've a squad of experienced players who are 16th in the league when you take over and proved the season before that they should have been nearer the playoffs than relegation.

[Greenridge]

It's a pity JP hasn't been able to bring in 4 experienced PL / ex PL players on PL stye wages as NP did in the form of Wright, Lucketti, Pearce and Pericard. Knowing you've only got to plug the holes temporarily and can bring in players on high wages to do it, is a lot easier than having to build a team for a season and beyond from scratch. Especially so when you've a squad of experienced players who are 16th in the league when you take over and proved the season before that they should have been nearer the playoffs than relegation.

 

That's an interesting way to spin things. Lucketti and Pericard came from CCC teams did they not? By the same token Forecast, Pekhart and Cork are from Premiership clubs I believe.

[Alucard]

That's an interesting way to spin things. Lucketti and Pericard came from CCC teams did they not? By the same token Forecast, Pekhart and Cork are from Premiership clubs I believe.

 

Lucketti & Pericard were both playing in the PL the season before last. As far as I am aware Sheff Utd didn't have the same relegation wage cuts in their players contracts as we did so he would still have been on PL wages. Pericard wouldn't have taken too much of a pay cut to join Stoke from the Skates.

I very much doubt that we are paying Forecast, Pekhart & Cork one quarter of the money we were paying Wright, Pearce, Lucketti & Pericard last season as they don't ave any PL experience do they? How much do you think S****horpe were able to pay Cork last season?

[sadoldgit]

I've answered every one of these questions, more than once, over...ooooh, must be nearly the last 18months.

 

I genuinely pity you if there is something wrong with your memory where you cannot retain information, or if you are actually such a bigot you feel the compulsive need to keep asking the same boring, tedious, banal, anal-retentive questions of people (especially me seeing as you appear utterly obsessed) time and time and time again in the hope of one day getting either answers you want to hear, the opportunity to piisss higher up the wall than everybody else for once, or some crumb by which you can justify you completely irrational and obsessive love for your Footballing Messiah.

 

Suffice to say, I am not going to indulge you weird obsession and take the time to answer them yet again. Especially as you whine about "digs" then resort to personal abuse to try to trivialise the reasons why I rate Burley alongside Steve Wigley as the worst managers SFC has ever had.

 

Burley is a washed-up; a complete busted flush. He's lost it as a manager. He's gone to the only position on the planet that would take him after the howling mess he made out of Southampton Football Club; Scotland and him deserve each other.

 

F**king deal with it...

 

Still as charming as ever Alpine I see.

 

So you HAVE meet Burley, Pearson and JP and spent time with them both in the office and out on the training ground? That is why you are able to make such an objective judgement about the merits of all three men.

 

Good, I am glad we cleared that up.

 

I am also glad that you think a manager who took us to the play offs is one of the worst we ever had. In that case your list of "worst managers" must be pretty long Alpine.

 

1.54 points a game, yeah rubbish wasn't it.

 

I suppose Sir Alf Ramsey was rubbish to for failing to beat those pesky West germans in 1970 despite having one of the best squads in the competition.

 

Or every manager that Chelsea have had recently are rubbish for not winning he Champions League?

 

Bigot? Do I come on here and make unfounded slurs against people and their birthplace?

 

No.

 

You are the one that comes on and slags people off matey. Feel free to provide proof of this so called love of the, what, football messiah?

 

I simply point out that the manager who you rate as complete rubbish not counting all of the other slurs about alchohol that you rake up actuall succeeded in his aim of reaching the play offs and may have done so again last season if the club had not sold Bale, Baird and Jones. He is also the manager with the best points per game record.

 

If that is a love affair then I pity your wife Alpine.

 

So then....did he run off with her???

[alpine_saint]

Still as charming as ever Alpine I see.

 

So you HAVE meet Burley, Pearson and JP and spent time with them both in the office and out on the training ground? That is why you are able to make such an objective judgement about the merits of all three men.

 

Good, I am glad we cleared that up.

 

I am also glad that you think a manager who took us to the play offs is one of the worst we ever had. In that case your list of "worst managers" must be pretty long Alpine.

 

1.54 points a game, yeah rubbish wasn't it.

 

I suppose Sir Alf Ramsey was rubbish to for failing to beat those pesky West germans in 1970 despite having one of the best squads in the competition.

 

Or every manager that Chelsea have had recently are rubbish for not winning he Champions League?

 

Bigot? Do I come on here and make unfounded slurs against people and their birthplace?

 

No.

 

You are the one that comes on and slags people off matey. Feel free to provide proof of this so called love of the, what, football messiah?

 

I simply point out that the manager who you rate as complete rubbish not counting all of the other slurs about alchohol that you rake up actuall succeeded in his aim of reaching the play offs and may have done so again last season if the club had not sold Bale, Baird and Jones. He is also the manager with the best points per game record.

 

If that is a love affair then I pity your wife Alpine.

 

So then....did he run off with her???

 

Dear oh dear. Trying to abuse me via my wife isnt even the most pathetic comment in this post.

 

Your credibility diminshes with each passing (non-paying) day....

[edisaint]

As the statistics were taken from a site renowned as a refuge for "Lowe Luvvies" it wouldn't suprise me.

 

You mean a mailing list (not a site) which is renowned for good-humoured debate amongst adults, who can hold opposing views and still discuss them sensibly?

 

To my mind much better than somehwere for small children to whinge and thow insults at each other.

 

Still, to each their own.

[OldNick]

You mean a mailing list (not a site) which is renowned for good-humoured debate amongst adults, who can hold opposing views and still discuss them sensibly?

 

To my mind much better than somehwere for small children to whinge and thow insults at each other.

 

Still, to each their own.

and I haven't been invited

[OldNick]

Still as charming as ever Alpine I see.

 

So you HAVE meet Burley, Pearson and JP and spent time with them both in the office and out on the training ground? That is why you are able to make such an objective judgement about the merits of all three men.

 

Good, I am glad we cleared that up.

 

I am also glad that you think a manager who took us to the play offs is one of the worst we ever had. In that case your list of "worst managers" must be pretty long Alpine.

 

1.54 points a game, yeah rubbish wasn't it.

 

I suppose Sir Alf Ramsey was rubbish to for failing to beat those pesky West germans in 1970 despite having one of the best squads in the competition.

 

Or every manager that Chelsea have had recently are rubbish for not winning he Champions League?

 

Bigot? Do I come on here and make unfounded slurs against people and their birthplace?

 

No.

 

You are the one that comes on and slags people off matey. Feel free to provide proof of this so called love of the, what, football messiah?

 

I simply point out that the manager who you rate as complete rubbish not counting all of the other slurs about alchohol that you rake up actuall succeeded in his aim of reaching the play offs and may have done so again last season if the club had not sold Bale, Baird and Jones. He is also the manager with the best points per game record.

 

If that is a love affair then I pity your wife Alpine.

 

So then....did he run off with her???

SOG, you are banging your head against a brick wall. Even when NP was at SMS a lot of the non attenders were still not going.

There is no answer to the true fact that GB is now an International manager. He is not managing a L1 side or out of work. In fact it seems he earnt the club al ot of money when he left with a handsome payoff , that helped towards the loans NP brought in to save the day.

[saintwarwick]

You have Alpine's lack of char so I definately think you two have something going on.

 

Just FYI, I don't think you live in Spain, I was just using your name and applying a litle imgaination to make a point.

 

If you are not anti-Burley why do you continue to rally to Alpine's defence everytime I challenge him on his obsessive hatred of the man?

 

Now back to Alpine. You are still doing it aren't you? When faced with hard facts there is not response other than your usual digs.

 

Tell me, what would you give for 1.54 points a game?

 

Tell me, have you ever actually met all of these men who you have made judgements on or are you just going by what you read on internet forums?

 

Tell me, what do you hate George Burley so much? Did he run off with your wife? Burgle your house?

 

Tell me, why no scorn for all of the other Southampton managers who have failed to deliver success?

 

And just to help me get a fix on where you are coming from, feel free to tell me how many live games you saw under a) Burley b) Pearson and c) JP so that I know that your judgement on their management abilities are based on what you, yourself, have witnessed.

 

Hacienda, let's see if Alpine can manage these questions on his own shall we?

 

Alpine does not answer questions when challenged, I have asked a few in the past but the only response I got was ZZZ smilies (:smt015). His reply to you was to question you on your retention of information he has posted over the last 18 months, information he clearly has failed to retain as he has been unable to answer these questions again, basically sidestepping the issue to avoid answering the questions in the first place. The answers he should be posting are he has never met any of the above mentioned and he has attended so very few games to judge on their overall managerial abilities, that is not to say that he cannot judge on what he has seen.

[Deano6]

But the others didn't have this squad, they had premiership quality players.

 

We were a small club in the Premiership. For a Championship club we're at least in the top half of the table of size.

[alpine_saint]

SOG, you are banging your head against a brick wall. Even when NP was at SMS a lot of the non attenders were still not going.

There is no answer to the true fact that GB is now an International manager. He is not managing a L1 side or out of work. In fact it seems he earnt the club al ot of money when he left with a handsome payoff , that helped towards the loans NP brought in to save the day.

 

Yes, there is.

 

It's Scotland.

 

He's Scottish

 

The other options were Mark McGhee and a half-interested Graeme Souness with many external distractions.

 

They've gone from nearly scaring the shiit out France and Italy to scraping wins against that funny little country named after the supermarket that a silicon-breasted Scouse tart advertises, who also gave the world Magnus Magnusson :confused:and his hideous daughter Sally, has just stolen shiitloads of UK taxpayers money, and gave the world Bjork.

 

'Nuff said....

[alpine_saint]

Alpine does not answer questions when challenged, I have asked a few in the past but the only response I got was ZZZ smilies (:smt015). His reply to you was to question you on your retention of information he has posted over the last 18 months, information he clearly has failed to retain as he has been unable to answer these questions again, basically sidestepping the issue to avoid answering the questions in the first place. The answers he should be posting are he has never met any of the above mentioned and he has attended so very few games to judge on their overall managerial abilities, that is not to say that he cannot judge on what he has seen.

 

Correction: I will not repeatedly answer questions any longer when I know the people involved are not listening or are actually interested in the answers, and are just repeating themselves. I have answered every one of those questions, and most of yours, over the last 18months. I started posting ZZZZs when it became clear to me that you were just baiting rather than being interested in my viewpoint.

 

History is rapidly drawing the conclusion that Burley was a useless manager, the play-off season was due to Snodin and in spite of Burley, and that considering the resources put at his disposal for one last throw of the dice to get back to the PL, he made an utter disgraceful f**k-up of the task.

[edisaint]

Yes, there is.

 

It's Scotland.

 

He's Scottish

 

The other options were Mark McGhee and a half-interested Graeme Souness with many external distractions..

 

Your sneering at Scotland is a little unnecessary. I'd take Mark McGhee as manager almost any day of the week - he got Motherwell playing decent football and they fully deserved to finish third behind the Old Firm.

 

I'd agree that Burley should have done better with the resources at his disposal but your continual, personal and tiresome vendetta against him last year was utterly pathetic.

 

At least you've got Rupert Lowe back as your main villain now. Easier to have a pantomime villain, eh? Saves having to appreciate the complexity of any situation.

[alpine_saint]

Your sneering at Scotland is a little unnecessary. I'd take Mark McGhee as manager almost any day of the week - he got Motherwell playing decent football and they fully deserved to finish third behind the Old Firm.

 

I'd agree that Burley should have done better with the resources at his disposal but your continual, personal and tiresome vendetta against him last year was utterly pathetic.

 

At least you've got Rupert Lowe back as your main villain now. Easier to have a pantomime villain, eh? Saves having to appreciate the complexity of any situation.

 

I assume when you say "complexity", you actually mean "excuses for incompetence"...

[sadoldgit]

Burely is obviously not a useless manager. He has a decent record at club level and now manages his country. To say it was all down to Snodin is pure conjecture. As far as I know, Snodin was nowhere near Ipswich when Burley took them up and into Europe.

 

What I would like to know (and I know that I will not get an answer as Alpine avoids all tricky questions) is, given that Redknapp was the manager who took us down, wasted millions of pounds buying poor players, dissed the kids, ignored the advice of a world cup winner and talked about the club in the third party as if he was nothing to do with us, why does Alpine not spill some of his toxic bile on him?

 

Burley has one full season with SFC in which we scored lots of goals, were one of the more entertaining teams in the league and were very unlucky not to make the play offs, yet that is reason the rip him to shreds at EVERY opportunity?

 

Last season Burley lost two of the best defenders in the league and a decent striker, a striker I should add that flourished under Burley's management. A senior exec thens launches into print and effectively says that we are parking our ambition. Yet somehow that is Burely's falut and he is rubbish.

 

Hoddle has the best first 10 game start with 14 points. In Burley's last 10 games he picked up 14 points. Listen to Alpine and youw ould think we were in freefall. No Alpine, we were in freefall after he left. Who can forget that awful game against Bristol Rovers when we had Dodd, Gorman and Pearson at the helm? We bumped along after that and managed to srap together 3 wins which just about kept us up. At the time Burely left we were still within a hand full of points of the play offs.

 

But no, he is rubbish and no amount of debate will persude him otherwise.

 

Despite the fact tht he has met no of these men and does not go to games, Alpine manages to deduce all of this heavy stuff from behind his computer screen.

 

He knows that Burley is apparently a usless Scottish drunk(doesn't that smake to you of bigotry Alpine?) and that Pearson and JP are both decent chaps who are doing great jobs despite everything just by reading third hand stories on the internet.

 

With an ability like that Alpine should be Prime Minister.

 

History Alpine, shows that a) you learn nothing from it and b) your rewrite it constantly from your dingy dungeon bolt hole.

 

I shall now give you an opportunity to prove to all of us doubters that you do, in fact, know what you are talking about.

 

Please provide us all with hard fact to show that it was Snodin rather then Burley who was responsible for getting us to the play offs.

 

That would be proof that Snodin bought the players, trained them, sorted out the tactics, gave the half time talks and decided on the substitutions. Hard proof mind, not just half baked theories that you form in the gloom of your bunker. While you are at it you can throw in your reasoning why, if it was all down to Snodin, he is not the Scottish manager now?

 

Then if that doesn't tax your brain too much, I would like an indepth reasoning behind why you think that it is perfectly okay to come on and make your unpleasant allegations about George Burley but why Harry Redknapp escapes your vitriol. Afterall, everything we read on the interent is true, so good old 'Arry was on the take wasn't he? Surely wedges of cash in brown envelopes is just as big a target as alleged drunkeness Alpine?

 

And if Burley winds you up because he failed to take us up, surely the man who took us down in the first place is more deserving of your attention?

 

If you think people bait you Alpine, why do you think that is?

 

You accuse me of being a bigot yet quit happily come on here and spout bigotry.

 

You do not go to matches yet come and make judgement on the managers when having nothing to found your comments on other then 2nd and 3rd hand stories on the internet.

 

You make judegements (some of the damning and probably libellous) against people you have never, and will never meet, again, just using what you have gleaned from the internet -and you think that is perfectly acceptable.

 

Every time, yes every time Alpine, someone puts you on the spot you sidestep the question and resort to your well honed abuse, smilies or ZZZZs.

 

Your posts are highly subjective and inconsistant and your constant negativity is a drain on the soul. Take your recent classic, two nil up and looking good for a third and all you post was, "I hope we can hang on". Speak volumes about your mindset Alpine and I feel sorry for you and anyone within earshot of you.

 

You seem to revel in doom and gloom and only come alive when things are not going well.

 

There is a little song from the end of The Life of Brian that, everytime you sit down to post, I would like you to sing to yourself Alpine. It goes, "Always look on the bright side of life." Go on, give it a try, let's see if you are capable of lightness, evenhandedness, balance, objectivity and dare I say it, fun?

[edisaint]

I assume when you say "complexity", you actually mean "excuses for incompetence"...

 

No no, I mean complexity - as in a situation which is affected by many factors.

[alpine_saint]

No no, I mean complexity - as in a situation which is affected by many factors.

 

Nope, its still excuses.

[alpine_saint]

Burely is obviously not a useless manager. He has a decent record at club level and now manages his country. To say it was all down to Snodin is pure conjecture. As far as I know, Snodin was nowhere near Ipswich when Burley took them up and into Europe.

 

What I would like to know (and I know that I will not get an answer as Alpine avoids all tricky questions) is, given that Redknapp was the manager who took us down, wasted millions of pounds buying poor players, dissed the kids, ignored the advice of a world cup winner and talked about the club in the third party as if he was nothing to do with us, why does Alpine not spill some of his toxic bile on him?

 

Burley has one full season with SFC in which we scored lots of goals, were one of the more entertaining teams in the league and were very unlucky not to make the play offs, yet that is reason the rip him to shreds at EVERY opportunity?

 

Last season Burley lost two of the best defenders in the league and a decent striker, a striker I should add that flourished under Burley's management. A senior exec thens launches into print and effectively says that we are parking our ambition. Yet somehow that is Burely's falut and he is rubbish.

 

Hoddle has the best first 10 game start with 14 points. In Burley's last 10 games he picked up 14 points. Listen to Alpine and youw ould think we were in freefall. No Alpine, we were in freefall after he left. Who can forget that awful game against Bristol Rovers when we had Dodd, Gorman and Pearson at the helm? We bumped along after that and managed to srap together 3 wins which just about kept us up. At the time Burely left we were still within a hand full of points of the play offs.

 

But no, he is rubbish and no amount of debate will persude him otherwise.

 

Despite the fact tht he has met no of these men and does not go to games, Alpine manages to deduce all of this heavy stuff from behind his computer screen.

 

He knows that Burley is apparently a usless Scottish drunk(doesn't that smake to you of bigotry Alpine?) and that Pearson and JP are both decent chaps who are doing great jobs despite everything just by reading third hand stories on the internet.

 

With an ability like that Alpine should be Prime Minister.

 

History Alpine, shows that a) you learn nothing from it and b) your rewrite it constantly from your dingy dungeon bolt hole.

 

I shall now give you an opportunity to prove to all of us doubters that you do, in fact, know what you are talking about.

 

Please provide us all with hard fact to show that it was Snodin rather then Burley who was responsible for getting us to the play offs.

 

That would be proof that Snodin bought the players, trained them, sorted out the tactics, gave the half time talks and decided on the substitutions. Hard proof mind, not just half baked theories that you form in the gloom of your bunker. While you are at it you can throw in your reasoning why, if it was all down to Snodin, he is not the Scottish manager now?

 

Then if that doesn't tax your brain too much, I would like an indepth reasoning behind why you think that it is perfectly okay to come on and make your unpleasant allegations about George Burley but why Harry Redknapp escapes your vitriol. Afterall, everything we read on the interent is true, so good old 'Arry was on the take wasn't he? Surely wedges of cash in brown envelopes is just as big a target as alleged drunkeness Alpine?

 

And if Burley winds you up because he failed to take us up, surely the man who took us down in the first place is more deserving of your attention?

 

If you think people bait you Alpine, why do you think that is?

 

You accuse me of being a bigot yet quit happily come on here and spout bigotry.

 

You do not go to matches yet come and make judgement on the managers when having nothing to found your comments on other then 2nd and 3rd hand stories on the internet.

 

You make judegements (some of the damning and probably libellous) against people you have never, and will never meet, again, just using what you have gleaned from the internet -and you think that is perfectly acceptable.

 

Every time, yes every time Alpine, someone puts you on the spot you sidestep the question and resort to your well honed abuse, smilies or ZZZZs.

 

Your posts are highly subjective and inconsistant and your constant negativity is a drain on the soul. Take your recent classic, two nil up and looking good for a third and all you post was, "I hope we can hang on". Speak volumes about your mindset Alpine and I feel sorry for you and anyone within earshot of you.

 

You seem to revel in doom and gloom and only come alive when things are not going well.

 

There is a little song from the end of The Life of Brian that, everytime you sit down to post, I would like you to sing to yourself Alpine. It goes, "Always look on the bright side of life." Go on, give it a try, let's see if you are capable of lightness, evenhandedness, balance, objectivity and dare I say it, fun?

 

Wow, despite the fact I am flattered that your obsession with me extends to spend so much time trying to make me see the light, I simply cannot be bothered to read that....

 

Please find a hobby or something....

[NickG]

Shows that NP wasn't doing bad ? He is in the same ballpark as Ball, Hoddle and Strachan, probably our most successful managers in recent years.

 

this is sarcism? Not in the same class (or even school!) as those or Nicholl for what he did for us. He was not bad but success??!! strange:confused: