St. Marys Expansion

[Big John]

I've been wondering if it might be possible to get the best of both worlds, i.e find a town centre location which also has good transport links. Stoneham is ideal for transport links, but I agree with those who say that the out of town location would change the atmosphere for the worse.

 

The best compromise location I can find is here:

 

 

Sure it would cost a bit to buy the land, but it's ideally located for both road and rail access (if you build a footbridge to the station, policing away fans might be much easier). Another downside is that Mountbatten Way is busy at the best of times, but I can't see a better location anywhere in the town centre.

 

Can anyone think of a better location?

 

That's the new super police station isn't it. lol

[Matthew Le God]

i have seen the pictures from the planning application, very impressive and great opportunity to develop the site for other activities after it's finished. Could be a proper Southampton Village type development. Expect American Wharf to come off of the market at some point in the future.

 

Don't leave it like that, describe in detail what you saw.

[Big John]

i can't remember that silly, it was stadium shaped, i'm not an architect ;-)

[Matthew Le God]

i can't remember that silly, it was stadium shaped, i'm not an architect ;-)

 

Well, which stands were different to how they are now? How were they different? etc etc

[Big John]

about the same size as now, special corpoate stand and tree-lined leisure areas around the ground

[Matthew Le God]

about the same size as now, special corpoate stand and tree-lined leisure areas around the ground

 

What does that mean? The Itchen Stand already has the corporate facilities in it.

 

No mention of anything on the councils planning website...

 

http://publicaccess.southampton.gov.uk/PublicAccess/propdb/property/property_history_summary.aspx?blpukeyval=002MC5OZBU000&lpikeyval=00253AOZLI000&module=P3&historymodule=DC

[Big John]

i would keep an eye on the ebc applications first. that is where i would open discussions, this isn't a new idea.

[Matthew Le God]

Do you think something is imminent on the Eastleigh council's website? What sort of time frame?

Edited 12 November, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[Smirking_Saint]

That's the new super police station isn't it. lol

 

No thats the other side of the road i think.

 

And i am pretty sure there is a couple of unexploded bombs in that site somewhere !!

[Saint_Jonny]

Someone starts a thread about a wikipedia page and suddenly Saints are about to abandon a lovely new stadium and build a new one.

 

 

Some people will belive anything.

[eelpie]

Someone starts a thread about a wikipedia page and suddenly Saints are about to abandon a lovely new stadium and build a new one.

 

 

Some people will belive anything.

 

Saints are to ground share with skates!

 

latest .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

....wind up

 

(just joking)

[COMEONYOUREDS]

I'm sure once planning is submitted it will be in the echo

[The9]

There are bigger issues with this - firstly the tv money in the Prem dwarfs income from fans attending nowadays, so it's not necessarily as vital a revenue stream as it could have been once, and the club might choose to take this into consideration with ticket pricing.

 

Non-attendees are able to buy merchandise, etc without ever coming to matches, so people not being able to get in to see a game is not really that much of an issue as "branding" and looking successful on the telly is for the kind of global revenue streams currently required to compete in the Prem.

 

No-one, at any point in this thread has discussed pricing, and how that will affect attendances. Our current ST policy, should we even still have Liebherr money/Cortese in charge, implies that a "by match" ticketing policy will be preferred, and even under the assumption that we actually get back there, you have to expect the cheapest tickets to see Saints in the Prem in a few years' time will be at LEAST £30, and the average cost will be somewhere around the £35-£37 mark.

 

Depending on the general economic climate and the cost of tickets, there could be a LOT of picking and choosing of games even in a "first season back" scenario, and there are already plenty of clubs in the Prem who can't shift swathes of match tickets and plenty who have been cutting their prices. We've got those 30k averages from 2001-5 to look at, but there was generally more prosperity, and we don't have the attendance dip that the likes of Villa and Wigan have seen as the Prem has got more predictable and prosperity have taken a dive.

 

If the club decided that we have such a large fanbase that "someone else" will pick up the slack, charging £50 a match ticket and with no STs (or equally prohibitively priced, with no payment plan), then it wouldn't matter how big the stadium was, we'd struggle to fill the one we have.

 

Any discussion of stadium expansion needs to be done in the context of possible ticket prices (if only to get figures to indicate potential profit, per seat or otherwise) or it's worthless.

[100%Red&White]

I guess they'd say we were pulling in 30k attendances to watch a team that wasn't particularly successful and eventually relegated - we were still getting 30k in that relegation season. If we achieve promotion next May I can see STs selling very well next season and just about selling out if we go on to make it back to the Prem. Then if Cortese's/Marcus' plans are realised then that will mean it only gets better.

 

Personally I believe they'd really want to develop the area around St Mary's and are leaking possibilities of moving out-of-city to force issues. SMS can easily achieve 40k, which I agree is a realistic figure for a realitively successful Saints side, with improved corporate facilities and a new train stop outside the Kingsland.

[david in sweden]

There are only about 10 good teams in international rugby, so there will only be about 6 pool games between good teams, and I very much doubt whether any of them will be at St Mary's. 32,000 will be more than big enough for the matches played there.

 

ssh! if someone else is willing to pay for the expansion ..? why argue ?

[Matthew Le God]

Someone starts a thread about a wikipedia page and suddenly Saints are about to abandon a lovely new stadium and build a new one.

 

 

Some people will belive anything.

 

The Wikipedia page said nothing of a stadium move, Cortese did in interview.

[The9]

Just sticking some figures in : Approx £23m per club per season from overseas TV rights, plus about the same from domestic TV rights :

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-nets-16314bn-tv-rights-bonanza-1925462.html

 

So that's (about) £46m per Prem club per season from the telly alone.

 

19 matches, £35 a ticket (guess), 30k average Prem attendance = £19.9m. Even 19 sellouts only raise £21m (plus corporate seats).

 

Wigan seem to be doing ok from a half empty stadium that's on the telly a lot.

[Matthew Le God]

Just sticking some figures in : Approx £23m per club per season from overseas TV rights, plus about the same from domestic TV rights :

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-nets-16314bn-tv-rights-bonanza-1925462.html

 

So that's (about) £46m per Prem club per season from the telly alone.

 

19 matches, £35 a ticket (guess), 30k average Prem attendance = £19.9m. Even 19 sellouts only raise £21m (plus corporate seats).

 

Wigan seem to be doing ok from a half empty stadium that's on the telly a lot.

 

Wigan are in the relegation zone! They also have cheaper season tickets in the Premier League than Saints do in League One.

 

Do you not think that if they had all the TV money plus large gates that other teams get they would have a better team?

Edited 12 November, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[Joensuu]

That's the new super police station isn't it. lol

 

No thats the other side of the road i think.

 

Smirking's right: http://www.invest-in-southampton.co.uk/news/policeHQ.asp

[adrian lord]

Arsenal moved to the Emirates to make more in gate receipts.

[The9]

Arsenal moved to the Emirates to make more in gate receipts.

 

 

The Emirates contract was signed in early 2003, so plans would have been in place for a couple of years before that :

http://www.designbuild-network.com/projects/ashburton/

 

Arsenal thought at the time they had to near-double their capacity in order to compete with Man U, who could accommodate crowds double those at Highbury at a time when they were clearly the top 2 teams in England. They also had an all-but guaranteed fanbase due to their recent FA Cup and League wins, London location and historical success - which has been borne out by the Emirates crowds. It was a no-brainer.

 

As it happens, not long after they committed to the new stadium (March 2003), the revenue from Sky and especially the overseas tv deals expanded massively, rendering the gap between their respective crowd sizes far less of a factor in overall incomes. Arsenal were also at the forefront of the global football merchandising boom alongside Man U and Liverpool that went along with the higher profile Premier League overseas coverage, which gave those teams an advantage over the other Prem sides.

 

For a double-whammy, Chelsea got all "new money" at the same time as Arsenal got skint, and the stadium debt Arsenal took on in building has hampered their ability to buy the kind of top level players they've needed to compete since - they haven't won anything since 2004/5 Premier League title, before they moved to the Emirates.

 

In short, even when there's a guaranteed fan base, which Saints certainly don't have, there's no guarantee that a bigger stadium will improve things - of course there's also no guarantee Arsenal wouldn't have fallen away if they stayed at Highbury...

[The9]

Wigan are in the relegation zone! They also have cheaper season tickets in the Premier League than Saints do in League One.

 

Do you not think that if they had all the TV money plus large gates that other teams get they would have a better team?

 

Not necessarily, plus the lack of people to buy into their lack of history and merchandise is probably at least as responsible - people don't buy Wigan shirts in Malaysia do they ?

 

And of course they have a number of far more auspicious local rivals, which Saints don't have to worry about.

[Give it to Ron]

More petty insults... Really is getting pathetic now...

 

So are you saying that if Wigan had 30k turning up week in week out rather than 15k(with cheap tickets), that they wouldn't have more money available to spend on transfers and wages? I didn't say it would guarantee success, but it helps.

 

Am I missing something here....didn't we have gates of 31k every week? The problem was we never spent it on managers or quality players...we went for cheap options like Gray, Wigley, Dutch experiments who all failed and over inflated our squad with mediocrity.

Whereas Fulham went for Hughes, Blackburn Big Sam, Everton have Moyes and no money....the most important thing at a club is the manager not the size of the stadium in isolation.

We have a big enough stadium that will do us for years and don't need to expand, football will implode soon and we need to be able to survive.

Look at Brighton 93m?? on a 22k stadium.

[Give it to Ron]

Yes, the final sentence in my post.

 

Well tell that to Leeds who have a bigger stadium than any of the teams you mentioned....didn't help them much.

[Give it to Ron]

Two examples, yes. But there are often exceptions to the rule. Two examples doesn't exactly break the rule.

 

Coventry, MK Dons 2 more?? Or alternatively look at Spurs...did they expand or get in a better manager and invest in players?

[dockland Dave]

Spurs are expanding, as are West Ham. Liverpool and everton are desperate too

[dockland Dave]

If NC is realistic about getting us into the Champions League, he knows that it will be impossible to compete at St Marys with the current set up. IMHO lets get into the CCC before the club even contemplates moving

[Paul Chuckle]

Seriously, let's get of this ****ing division first. Some of our fans need to live in the real world. 'Champions league, 50000 sestet stafiums' if this was the Skates talking about this in the CCC let alone league one we'd be ****ing ourselves laughing at them

 

I love this club but sometimes I do wonder about certain fans of it....

[Amesbury Saint]

Do people get excited with the idea of watching Saints play Fulham, Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn and several others?

 

or paying players £50k to £100k a week

 

or paying £40 to watch a match?

 

Not me.

[Paul Chuckle]

Take 2*

 

Bloody iPhone spell checker lol

 

Seriously, let's get out of this ****ing division first. Some of our fans need to live in the real world. 'Champions league, 50000 seater stadiums' if this was the Skates talking about this in the CCC let alone league one we'd be ****ing ourselves laughing at them

 

I love this club but sometimes I do wonder about certain fans of it....

[Andy_Porter]

We will not move stadiums.

 

We will not expand St Marys.

 

Will be a long time before we're even close to getting 30,000+ everyweek when expansion would be even close to a possibility. I've really no idea why this keeps being brought up on here, it's ridiculous.

[Andy_Porter]

Do people get excited with the idea of watching Saints play Fulham, Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn and several others?

 

or paying players £50k to £100k a week

 

or paying £40 to watch a match?

 

Not me.

 

Or games at any point during the week other than Saturday at three o'clock.

 

The Premiership was **** as a fan, the last couple of years where before our PL relegation where probably the most dull times I've had supporting saints.

[capitalsaint]

Take 2*

 

Bloody iPhone spell checker lol

 

Seriously, let's get out of this ****ing division first. Some of our fans need to live in the real world. 'Champions league, 50000 seater stadiums' if this was the Skates talking about this in the CCC let alone league one we'd be ****ing ourselves laughing at them

 

I love this club but sometimes I do wonder about certain fans of it....

 

except that the fans have actually got nothing to do with it.

 

if i want us to have a 50,000 seat stadium the team will still play the same as they would if i wanted us to get out of this ****ing division first.

 

we our fans, we aren't players, we aren't part of the set-up.

 

can't we let the club get on with the football and we can get on with the being fans, and dreaming big, and having fun speculating?

 

if portsmouth were talking about it, we may laugh at them, but if it actually happened would they care? no. and if it didn't happen would they care about us laughing at them? no.

[capitalsaint]

We will not move stadiums.

 

We will not expand St Marys.

 

Will be a long time before we're even close to getting 30,000+ everyweek when expansion would be even close to a possibility. I've really no idea why this keeps being brought up on here, it's ridiculous.

 

because it is fun!

 

you guys must have some boring dreams

[Saint_clark]

If people take offence at the way someone speaks to them, can you use the PM system for your arguments please. Really no point in clogging the place up with posts saying exactly the same thing over and over just in a slightly different way and with slightly less subtle digs.

[The9]

Here's more evidence that attendance figures aren't as important as you might think :

 

[Jones91]

P*mpeys attendance on Saturday was 14,828.... now that is funny

 

How is the building work going on their floating stadium anyway?

[The9]

P*mpeys attendance on Saturday was 14,828.... now that is funny

 

How is the building work going on their floating stadium anyway?

 

Sunk by a now-decommissioned warship berth wasn't it ?

[wagon 84]

P*mpeys attendance on Saturday was 14,828.... now that is funny

 

How is the building work going on their floating stadium anyway?

 

Portsmyth, probably the best fans in world!