Holding a knife and fork properly

[Faz]

Manners matter. Politeness and courtesy matter. Personal Hygiene matters. Above all else, it shows respect for others. If you're one of those who don't care what other think of you, then that leeches into all aspects of your life, which will be the poorer for it.

 

Clearly many don't agree, but my guess is that if you are invited to a black tie dinner, you'll conform. The choice, however is yours. If you want to shovel your food in and splatter your fellow diners by talking and eating, then fire way. Whether you get invited back is another thing.

 

As an IT bod, if you wear jeans and a T shirt, as opposed to a suit and tie will it impact upon your ability to do the job, absolutely not. If your personal hygiene impacts upon colleagues, it will.

[aintforever]

Manners matter. Politeness and courtesy matter. Personal Hygiene matters. Above all else, it shows respect for others. If you're one of those who don't care what other think of you, then that leeches into all aspects of your life, which will be the poorer for it.

 

Clearly many don't agree, but my guess is that if you are invited to a black tie dinner, you'll conform. The choice, however is yours. If you want to shovel your food in and splatter your fellow diners by talking and eating, then fire way. Whether you get invited back is another thing.

 

As an IT bod, if you wear jeans and a T shirt, as opposed to a suit and tie will it impact upon your ability to do the job, absolutely not. If your personal hygiene impacts upon colleagues, it will.

 

I don't think it's Polite or courtious to inspect how people hold their knife and fork and judge them on it. You can hold you cutlery any way you choose and still behave in a respectful manner without talking and splattering fellow dinners.

 

just because you are not conforming to a bunch of stupid rules thought up by posh dickheads centuries ago doesn't mean you are rude. Likewise if you hold you knife and fork in a certain way and sit there looking down your nose judging people it doesn't make you a better person.

 

Typical English snobbery ****** which I detest, I suppose half of Asia are scum because they eat with their hands?

[dubai_phil]

Respect, Etiquette and Geography.

 

Eating, dressing & having personal hygiene like a slob? You're likely to be young and stuck in a job that doesn't seem to go anywhere, or to have climbed the tree and no longer give a damn. Would Dragons Den give you a zillion for a great idea if you haven't washed yourself for two weeks before appearing? Nope.

 

You work in an IT department and a client or the boss takes you out to dinner to discuss a promotion or a new job and you eat like a Baboon? Gonna be a tough one.

 

BUT then take the comments about the Yanks - If you eat "Proper" over there they DO look at you as if you are an Alien. It's all very well to trot out the non-PC that British Etiquette is the way forward. Sorry - that actually doesn't work.

 

Go to the home of an Arab (or even a proper Arabic/Lebanese restaurant) you eat your Mezzes with your hands, using bread to scoop up the Houmous etc. Now in this scenario, you would 1) look very stupid trying to cut Pitta Bread and dip it in Humous with a knife & fork and 2) Actually would (could) cause MASSIVE offence to your host, especially if you "unknowingly" used your left hand to put food to your mouth (In the desert your left hand is used for... well you know, no loo roll and sand doesn't work that well)

 

Then, also in the offence causing stakes, do you have ANY idea how career limiting it is to turn up at a Management Meeting in Paris having SHOWERED more than once in the past week AND used SOAP!? And as for washing your hair before the meeting - yowza.

 

So Etiquette is about being aware and doing the right thing in the right place at the right time. Slob out at home, don't shower before going to Footie and eating a Chinese meal with your fingers while watching telly - no problemo.

 

But if you actually want to do a little bit more than be (eg) a tech support geek in the same office for the next 40 years - gotta know when to shape up

[aintforever]

Respect, Etiquette and Geography.

 

Eating, dressing & having personal hygiene like a slob? You're likely to be young and stuck in a job that doesn't seem to go anywhere, or to have climbed the tree and no longer give a damn. Would Dragons Den give you a zillion for a great idea if you haven't washed yourself for two weeks before appearing? Nope.

 

You work in an IT department and a client or the boss takes you out to dinner to discuss a promotion or a new job and you eat like a Baboon? Gonna be a tough one.

 

BUT then take the comments about the Yanks - If you eat "Proper" over there they DO look at you as if you are an Alien. It's all very well to trot out the non-PC that British Etiquette is the way forward. Sorry - that actually doesn't work.

 

Go to the home of an Arab (or even a proper Arabic/Lebanese restaurant) you eat your Mezzes with your hands, using bread to scoop up the Houmous etc. Now in this scenario, you would 1) look very stupid trying to cut Pitta Bread and dip it in Humous with a knife & fork and 2) Actually would (could) cause MASSIVE offence to your host, especially if you "unknowingly" used your left hand to put food to your mouth (In the desert your left hand is used for... well you know, no loo roll and sand doesn't work that well)

 

Then, also in the offence causing stakes, do you have ANY idea how career limiting it is to turn up at a Management Meeting in Paris having SHOWERED more than once in the past week AND used SOAP!? And as for washing your hair before the meeting - yowza.

 

So Etiquette is about being aware and doing the right thing in the right place at the right time. Slob out at home, don't shower before going to Footie and eating a Chinese meal with your fingers while watching telly - no problemo.

 

But if you actually want to do a little bit more than be (eg) a tech support geek in the same office for the next 40 years - gotta know when to shape up

 

Weird that, because my mate is the biggest slob I know and he's close to being a millinaire before his 32nd birthday.

 

My (very successful) creative director turns up at corporate dos looking like a tramp - makes no difference because he's bloody good at his job.

[SNSUN]

Who defines what is correct?

 

What if they change their mind?

 

How would we know?

 

I think it was tradition. The school was 700 years old.

[dubai_phil]

Weird that, because my mate is the biggest slob I know and he's close to being a millinaire before his 32nd birthday.

 

My (very successful) creative director turns up at corporate dos looking like a tramp - makes no difference because he's bloody good at his job.

 

 

I also know a bunch of slobbish millionaires. I know one geek who doesn't leave his house, only eats takeaways that get delivered and has a Merc AMG on the driveway that has siezed up as it has never been driven.

 

Creative Directors and Marketing Gurus/ Yep they go through life looking like Bill Gates style wise but they have ABILITY.

 

Hell, I work from home 90% of the time and dress and eat like a slob.

 

What I would take a guess at though is that for the majority of the world, when up against their competitors of an equal talent when in line for a promotion or a new job, if they look act and behave like a slob will NOT get on

 

The critical difference to be successful is the ability to notice when NOT to be one and to dress/act/apply etiquette approrpiate to the moment.

[aintforever]

I also know a bunch of slobbish millionaires. I know one geek who doesn't leave his house, only eats takeaways that get delivered and has a Merc AMG on the driveway that has siezed up as it has never been driven.

 

Creative Directors and Marketing Gurus/ Yep they go through life looking like Bill Gates style wise but they have ABILITY.

 

Hell, I work from home 90% of the time and dress and eat like a slob.

 

What I would take a guess at though is that for the majority of the world, when up against their competitors of an equal talent when in line for a promotion or a new job, if they look act and behave like a slob will NOT get on

 

The critical difference to be successful is the ability to notice when NOT to be one and to dress/act/apply etiquette approrpiate to the moment.

 

I don't disagree, just fail to see the link between the technique you use for holding cutlery and being a rude slob.

 

You can behave in a polite respectful manner without conforming to pointless ancient rules, likwise you can hold your cutlery the "correct" way and still be a rude, ignorant ***t.

[Faz]

I don't disagree, just fail to see the link between the technique you use for holding cutlery and being a rude slob.

 

You can behave in a polite respectful manner without conforming to pointless ancient rules, likwise you can hold your cutlery the "correct" way and still be a rude, ignorant ***t.

 

It depends on your definition of pointless. If it doesn't matter to you then don't conform; but then don't complain if you get passed over, or don't get invited back.

 

I agree the way you hold your cutlery doesn't make you either refined or a slob, but it does go toward creating the overall impression. We all judge, and get judged.

[Ohio Saint]

What about elbows on the table when eating,eh? My dad used to tell me off for that time and time again.

 

I was brought up to not do that. These days, putting my elbows on the table if I want to is one of my guilty pleasures.

 

Another one is laying your knife and fork on the plate side by side when finished. They don't do that in the US. People will ask if I am finished.....Well, DUH! look at my cutlery!

[Sheaf Saint]

It depends on your definition of pointless. If it doesn't matter to you then don't conform; but then don't complain if you get passed over, or don't get invited back.

 

Honestly, if somebody decides not to invite me back to dinner just because I didn't follow some bizarre ancient tradition, then I would quite happily never go back anyway if those kind of things are important to them.

[aintforever]

It depends on your definition of pointless. If it doesn't matter to you then don't conform; but then don't complain if you get passed over, or don't get invited back.

 

I agree the way you hold your cutlery doesn't make you either refined or a slob, but it does go toward creating the overall impression. We all judge, and get judged.

 

As long as you don't complain about getting passed over or not invited back for being a judgmental snob. I've never judged anyone by the way they hold their fork, you have issues if you do IMO.

[dune]

As long as you don't complain about getting passed over or not invited back for being a judgmental snob. I've never judged anyone by the way they hold their fork, you have issues if you do IMO.

 

I judheg you as a bit aof a grubby little pikey

[fish fingers]

I judheg you as a bit aof a grubby little pikey

 

and you're a **** who can't handle his drink

[sunrise]

I don't think it's Polite or courtious to inspect how people hold their knife and fork and judge them on it. You can hold you cutlery any way you choose and still behave in a respectful manner without talking and splattering fellow dinners.

 

just because you are not conforming to a bunch of stupid rules thought up by posh dickheads centuries ago doesn't mean you are rude. Likewise if you hold you knife and fork in a certain way and sit there looking down your nose judging people it doesn't make you a better person.

 

Typical English snobbery ****** which I detest, I suppose half of Asia are scum because they eat with their hands?

 

+1, I totally agree.

[Dr Who?]

I don't think it's Polite or courtious to inspect how people hold their knife and fork and judge them on it. You can hold you cutlery any way you choose and still behave in a respectful manner without talking and splattering fellow dinners.

 

just because you are not conforming to a bunch of stupid rules thought up by posh dickheads centuries ago doesn't mean you are rude. Likewise if you hold you knife and fork in a certain way and sit there looking down your nose judging people it doesn't make you a better person.

 

Typical English snobbery ****** which I detest, I suppose half of Asia are scum because they eat with their hands?

 

100% agree with this!

[Redbul]

I bet you also say haitch.

 

Don't get me started on people who say haitch!!!

 

I'm with Bex on this one. As long as you're not throwing food all over the place, snorting like a wart hog or imitating a steam shovel, who cares what you do?

[Whitey Grandad]

My friend Keith and I used to receive funny looks in Toronto when we ate hamburgers with a knife and fork. I can't think why. We even left the knife and fork in the 12 o'clock position when we had finished eating.

[Ohio Saint]

Stop PRESS!!!!

 

I have just seen an article on CNN here about training courses in etiquette for job seekers.

 

They also covered eating, how to carry your knife and fork, and even ended up on leaving your knife and fork together on the plate when finished...........There is hope yet for the US!!

[South Londoner]

Any top tips on how to use Grape Scissors ? My in laws use them when serving these fruits with the cheese course and I find it mildly disconcerting.

[dubai_phil]

Stop PRESS!!!!

 

I have just seen an article on CNN here about training courses in etiquette for job seekers.

 

They also covered eating, how to carry your knife and fork, and even ended up on leaving your knife and fork together on the plate when finished...........There is hope yet for the US!!

 

Lol.

 

Proof yet again that this Forum leads the World in discussing the most crucial International Topics of the Day and bringing them to the attention of the great global media machine.

[Whitey Grandad]

Any top tips on how to use Grape Scissors ? My in laws use them when serving these fruits with the cheese course and I find it mildly disconcerting.

 

I don't use them. I find that having grapes lowered into my mouth by a Nubian slave whilst reclining on a couch in my triclinium far more appealing, to be honest.

[buctootim]

Any top tips on how to use Grape Scissors ?

 

 

I avoid them. Stick with the Anusol.