Saint In Exile Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 It's not a bit, it is all the time, he just doesn't play where he is picked. Either he plays where he is picked or he doesn't play at all. If he doesn't think he can play wide, which he can, where is he going to play, because he sure as hell isn't good enough at this time to play as a central striker. So which is it?? He doesn't play where he is picked or he plays where he is picked? The guy's young, and trying to play in a position that he's not used to for the good of the team and yeah, makes some mistakes there and gets caught out drifting inside... I'm not disagreeing that he can expose the full-back at times and leave the team looking a little unbalanced but he's learning and as you say can get it right sometimes so is capable... A little more belief and encouragement will work wonders.... These are all young lads we are playing and confidence and belief is a delicate thing at their age that can very easily be destroyed and we all know that a large part of being successful in football is about confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 AH that be that Total football for ya. It's not far off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 So which is it?? He doesn't play where he is picked or he plays where he is picked? I thought it was quite simple really.... [At the moment] he doesn't play where he is picked. [He should start] Playing where he is picked, or [he should not] be playing at all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint In Exile Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I thought it was quite simple really.... [At the moment] he doesn't play where he is picked. [He should start] Playing where he is picked, or [he should not] be playing at all...... Didn't read like that to me due to the later comment that he does play well there sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Didn't read like that to me due to the later comment that he does play well there sometimes. I think 'consistency' is the key.... We'd all love a bit of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint In Exile Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I think 'consistency' is the key.... We'd all love a bit of that Wouldn't we just.... But aren't we more likely to get that consistency from players such as DMG if they are given a bit of belief and encouragement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 5 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 5 October, 2008 So which is it?? He doesn't play where he is picked or he plays where he is picked? The guy's young, and trying to play in a position that he's not used to for the good of the team and yeah, makes some mistakes there and gets caught out drifting inside... I'm not disagreeing that he can expose the full-back at times and leave the team looking a little unbalanced but he's learning and as you say can get it right sometimes so is capable... A little more belief and encouragement will work wonders.... These are all young lads we are playing and confidence and belief is a delicate thing at their age that can very easily be destroyed and we all know that a large part of being successful in football is about confidence. Against Norwich he held the width and the whole team was better for it. Against Coventry he didn't. The manager is at fault here. Either a player plays as picked, or is taken off when he fails to play as part of the team. McGoldrick plays for himself and his contribution to the team is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 He's a big time Charlie IMO. He clearly thinks he's a better player than he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 i thought he was ****t.......a good touch but no football brain in any capacity... drew was ****t...as was lancashire.... lallana looked ok but very lightweight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 5 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Didn't read like that to me due to the later comment that he does play well there sometimes. I said he can play wide, because I've seen him do it. He was disciplined against Norwich and provided width and cover. Yesterday he didn't. If he is picked to play wide, he has to play there and not play centrally when he feels like it, as he did yesterday. If he is not going to play in his assigned position, he should be left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven on the wing Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I would be interested to know McG 's goals to shots ratio, (not including pens). It has got to be very poor indeed and a clear indication that he lacks the necessary composure/technique to be a genuine striker at this level. This is not news as he has consistently failed on loan at a lower level. I am baffled that every other option seems to be taken rather than replacing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 BWP would be a better bet than DMG at the mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 5 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I would be interested to know McG 's goals to shots ratio, (not including pens). It has got to be very poor indeed and a clear indication that he lacks the necessary composure/technique to be a genuine striker at this level. This is not news as he has consistently failed on loan at a lower level. I am baffled that every other option seems to be taken rather than replacing him. He tends to miss-hit, or scuff a lot of shots. He should have been taken off several times this season for poor performances, but it appears anybody but McGoldrick is taken off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 He's a big time Charlie IMO. He clearly thinks he's a better player than he is Ditto. Not a team player, he is the weakest link in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I would take all of this condemnation of the lad's talents more seriously if I hadn't heard it all before - Jones, Fuller, Best. Blackstock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I would take all of this condemnation of the lad's talents more seriously if I hadn't heard it all before - Jones, Fuller, Best. Blackstock...agree i think hes becoming the fans hatchet man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I would be interested to know McG 's goals to shots ratio, (not including pens). It has got to be very poor indeed and a clear indication that he lacks the necessary composure/technique to be a genuine striker at this level. This is not news as he has consistently failed on loan at a lower level. I am baffled that every other option seems to be taken rather than replacing him. I expect it makes for much better reading than his completed / non-completed pass ratio. Trouble is, he's un-droppable for some reason. Jamie White has one bad half and he's dropped in the same game. DMG has 3 or four bad games and he stays in the side. It's this inconsistency that worries me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I would take all of this condemnation of the lad's talents more seriously if I hadn't heard it all before - Jones, Fuller, Best. Blackstock... You can put Shearer in there if you want, as I thought he missed too many one on ones when he first broke on to the scene. But as long as posts on here don't manifest into booing and non support when he plays, then I think we're all being a little too sensitive. Being a supporter is all about having and espousing your own opinion. Some you will agree with, some you won't, some will be justified, some won't, but for time immemorable fans have always had differing opinions of players, and after a loss it's obvious it might be more negative than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley Saint Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Yeah, yeah, yeah, another season, another scape-goat. IMHO DMG brings something to the team. I thought he brought more to the table than Robertson yesterday. He has touch and vision (fantastic control from that floating mis-clearance yesterday, for example) and his flicks and turns are usually unexpected, wrong-footing defenders. He often seems to see the killer ball, but his delivery doesn't always match his vision. His weakness is that, at the moment, a lot of what he is trying doesn't quite come off, so the fans get on his back, label him arrogant etc. I agree that he might have been played more than necessary, but I think that he will be a class act when his confidence comes back. All forwards miss the seemingly easy chances sometimes, it's when they aren't getting any chances that you should worry. As for the one-on-one yesterday, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Any forward worth having believes they can beat the keeper from there, but, sadly, sometimes they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan56 Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 To be decent players you do need a footballing brain and some nouse. McG frankly just looks thick. Not his fault but his whole demeanour is one of appearing lazy and totally disinterested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Shot Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Well I was told back in July that McG was told he would be our main striker. I was also told then which players would not figure and who would be sold and he was right on that too. Is Lowe having a influence in picking the team? Probably, is what I have been told. When a well respected poster like Weston Saint asserts something, Nickh you would be wise to listen. Lowe's promise to D McGoldrick that he would be our main striker shows just how dangerous it is to have the Chairman meddling in team selection and JP simply should not put up with it. D McG is not a natural goal scorer, he looks lazy and what skill he does have is wasted because he has no real reading of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Soze Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I can't stand him, sh1te player with an attitude issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I will agree but last night he was not our worst. Sorry Nick I totally disagree , I never saw anyone worse than DMG last night. His Attacking play , Positional play and general over all performance didn't cut it for me. He wasn't the only one but he was the worst !. I didn't rate him any more than a 4 / 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 5 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 5 October, 2008 This is not an anti McGoldrick thread. It is a criticism of the way he is ignoring his responsibilities. There is no question that he has various talents. His ignoring that he must play predominantly out to in from the line, when picked as one of the two wide men, is fundamental to the system breaking down, reducing passing options and exposing the right side of the defence. Against Norwich he did OK, against Coventry he was almost never there, but one of the times he was there he had our best chance. It's not hindsight to see a player bust a gut to get into a tap in situation and be ignored as McGoldrick ignored Pekart. At the start of the season JP and MW set down fundamental principles, two wide men was one of them. How can the system survive if one player refuses to play in the asigned position because he wants to play up the middle. Until he puts the team ethic first he should be left out and told why. I happen to know who Weston's sources are, they are absolutely on the inside. The Lowe rumour is more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 This is not an anti McGoldrick thread. It is a criticism of the way he is ignoring his responsibilities. There is no question that he has various talents. His ignoring that he must play predominantly out to in from the line, when picked as one of the two wide men, is fundamental to the system breaking down, reducing passing options and exposing the right side of the defence. Against Norwich he did OK, against Coventry he was almost never there, but one of the times he was there he had our best chance. It's not hindsight to see a player bust a gut to get into a tap in situation and be ignored as McGoldrick ignored Pekart. At the start of the season JP and MW set down fundamental principles, two wide men was one of them. How can the system survive if one player refuses to play in the asigned position because he wants to play up the middle. Until he puts the team ethic first he should be left out and told why. I happen to know who Weston's sources are, they are absolutely on the inside. The Lowe rumour is more than that. Sounds to me that it is WEAK MANAGEMENT that is the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Sounds to me that it is WEAK MANAGEMENT that is the problem But isnt that the very reason why Lowe appointed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 But isnt that the very reason why Lowe appointed him? Lowe likes weak men as they are easily manipulated into his way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Lowe likes weak men as they are easily manipulated into his way of thinking. what he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 5 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Sounds to me that it is WEAK MANAGEMENT that is the problem Together with possible favouritism from interfering executives and a player that thinks he is fireproof because of it. If he continues the way he is, a few more results like yesterday, more supporters realising what is happening to the team because of it, will cause him and maybe his sponser to start taking real stick from fed up supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
half time pie Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 I was going to say something similar about Drew Surman! The amount of shots he had that went wide, over or generally nowhere near the goal when he had a team mate in a better position drove me mad! Very selfish performance yesterday that looked like all he wanted was to be a hero. Totally agree. I was going to post my thoughts about this as well. Seems to want to do everthing himself, not for the team. As for the free kick where we were in a great position for Robertson to take, only for Surman to brush him aside then hack it over the bar. The look on Jordan Robertsons face was priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Totally agree. I was going to post my thoughts about this as well. Seems to want to do everthing himself, not for the team. As for the free kick where we were in a great position for Robertson to take, only for Surman to brush him aside then hack it over the bar. The look on Jordan Robertsons face was priceless. I wonder if that had anything to do with the under 21 manager watching.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 together with possible favouritism from interfering executives and a player that thinks he is fireproof because of it. If he continues the way he is, a few more results like yesterday, more supporters realising what is happening to the team because of it, will cause him and maybe his sponser to start taking real stick from fed up supporters. still weak management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 5 October, 2008 Share Posted 5 October, 2008 Its not that DMG is lazy or uninterested - I've seen him tracking back many a time (I recall a great tackle around our box against Blackpool). Nor is he untalented - he's got a pretty decent touch and is very good in the air (has seemed to win more than Peckhart). The problem is that hes not particularly pacy (its unfortunate that he tends to waddle when he runs, giving the impression that he couldnt give a s**t). His lack of pace forces him inside which then disrupts our overall shape. Indeed, it appears we lack pace more generally -surprising given our youth. Thompson looks quick but isnt in the squad; James is quick if terrible at fullback (why was he playing in the middle yesterday). That leaves somebody like Smith but he's unproven. Otherwise, cant think of many speed merchants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 He has many talents and a striker can be selfish providing he scores the goals. From my perspective, his shots always seem lightweight so surely he can be coached and excercised to improve this? Look how James Beattie improved after he initially came to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 He's pointless out wide because he just doesn't play there. When in his position he sulks, otherwise he's wandering off more central, leaving us lacking cover and struggling. His performance against Barnsley was one of the most petulent I've ever seen and I really don't like the guy. We need a team working hard for each other and showing the right attitude, but his is truly appalling. I'd love someone to buy him, especially if it meant we could afford to play Rudi and actually have a proper winger. Robertson, Pekhart, John and Paterson can cover up front anyway so he's no big loss there. Except that Pekhart and Robertson are only on loan. Can't really understand our loan policy, we take 3 forward players on loan and just the one defensive player. We take Gasmi although there doesn't seem to be any news on him actually playing.Pulis is a definite signing but hasn't made it into training yet. I'm not one of your pessimistic types but I don't quite see why we're taking so many attacking players on loan and just Cork on the defensive side (although he's playing in midfield now). If James is really as bad as some seem to think why didn't we take a replacement for him instead of Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 Its not that DMG is lazy or uninterested - I've seen him tracking back many a time Exactly - what really annoys me about some posters on here is that, whenever we lose, they immediately start ranting about 'lazy, passionless, overpaid players' - if only it were that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughnutman Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 IMHO we should play McGoldrick at the striker and move Robertson out to the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 It was phrased as a question as to it's veracity. It may indeed be a fairy story, but there may also be an element of truth in there. One of my biggest worries is the involvement of Lowe in the playing side of things. He stuck his oar in when we had strong managers around, so it would not surprise me if he was doing it again (this time with someone who owes it all to him and someone who might be more amenable to it, having worked on the continent where involvement from above is more accepted). I personally doubt it, but ultimately this argument is redundant until two years down the line, because only history will be able to judge whether or not McGoldrick can make the jump from prolific youth team scorer to doing it in the first team. Which is another problem with the team, the manager, the selectiona nd tactics. Something I alluded to when I said McGoldrick is not the biggest problem, mainly because there are even bigger ones out there. Best and Blackstock are examples of what can happen if you discard young players too soon - they come back to bite you. I think that McGoldrick has a lot of ability but is still learning discipline in what is not his natural position. I think that dropping him for a game or two would be no bad thing but I certainly would not want to see him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 McGoldrick will join the growing league of ex-Saints strikers who couldn't hit a barn door playing for us but score copiously for their new teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 When a well respected poster like Weston Saint asserts something, Nickh you would be wise to listen. Lowe's promise to D McGoldrick that he would be our main striker shows just how dangerous it is to have the Chairman meddling in team selection and JP simply should not put up with it. D McG is not a natural goal scorer, he looks lazy and what skill he does have is wasted because he has no real reading of the game. Oh so Weston is now the guru and we should bow to his knowledge. Weston is indeed a respected poster but that doesnt mean he is right,and he has not said it is correct about DMG. You may be naive enough to beleive that the club chairman would guarentee that a 19 year old kid would be guarentted a starting place (as it no doubt serves your slant on things) but i am not prepared to and I spoke to someone at the club and they havenot stopped laughing yet at the preposterous thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 6 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 6 October, 2008 (edited) Oh so Weston is now the guru and we should bow to his knowledge. Weston is indeed a respected poster but that doesnt mean he is right,and he has not said it is correct about DMG. You may be naive enough to beleive that the club chairman would guarentee that a 19 year old kid would be guarentted a starting place (as it no doubt serves your slant on things) but i am not prepared to and I spoke to someone at the club and they havenot stopped laughing yet at the preposterous thought. Nick, I know where Weston got his information from. It is absolutely, from inside the dressing room. Edited 6 October, 2008 by derry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 McGoldrick will join the growing league of ex-Saints strikers who couldn't hit a barn door playing for us but score copiously for their new teams. It's a bit catch-22 really. McG was always a bit behind Blackstock and Best age wise but was a better goal scorer at youth level. How do you know when a player develops to a higher potential? I'm not too bothered about Best but Blackstock seems to have hit his straps now. QPR could have bought in an expensive replacement for him if they thought he was no good. McG may get better but he needs to grow up IMO and build himself a wiser head on the pitch so that he adds more to the team. Then he might be good. But it's a big if still rather than a when! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 IMHO we should play McGoldrick at the striker and move Robertson out to the right Don't be silly. Why would you want to play him as a striker rather than stick to the tried and tested Saints policy of playing players out of position out wide. I expect he will play right back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 It was said in the summer that Lowe had informed DM that he was 1st choice striker and would start every game, which was why he didn't go to Notts Forest, his home town club. Colin Calderwood had been to see him play and a deal was in the offing. Telling a young lad that he's "untouchable" was/is a big mistake. I wonder what the apocryphal "Lowe is evil" story would be if McGoldrick was in a rich vein of form, and banging them in. Oh go on then, I'll make one up now. I've heard that Lowe thinks that now DMG's playing really well and has scored four in his last three games he's getting a bit big for his boots. Lowe is determined to get rid in the transfer window and we'll probably flog him to Forest (his home town club) for peanuts. Lowe out. Easy, aint it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 6 October, 2008 Share Posted 6 October, 2008 when we made 3 subs i was sure he would be one of the 3 to come off. Is just so stroppy, waving his arms all over the place when things dont go his way. IMO he needs a kick up the arse and a reality check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 7 October, 2008 Share Posted 7 October, 2008 Nick, I know where Weston got his information from. It is absolutely, from inside the dressing room.Derry I think the way you put it is not quite the way Weston would be , I have PM'd him to ask him to clarify the point.i get the impression he does not wish to be drawn in and state it as you have. It is a FALSE rumour and needs to be squashed before too many actually beleive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 7 October, 2008 Share Posted 7 October, 2008 That's not the issue at all. The issue is his attitude. In terms of ability I doubt anyone expected a finished article. You'd give him plenty of time and hope to see him do well. The problem is he doesn't give a toss about the team and isn't putting in the same commitment as other players. Best had an attitude too, but he seemed to be more of a team player.and MLT busted a gut.You would not believe the debates I had with fellow fans when he first came into the team about his laziness and attitude. DMG wants us to win as much as any other player on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 7 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 7 October, 2008 Derry I think the way you put it is not quite the way Weston would be , I have PM'd him to ask him to clarify the point.i get the impression he does not wish to be drawn in and state it as you have. It is a FALSE rumour and needs to be squashed before too many actually beleive it. It's information from unatributable sources. You carry on believing what you like. Your sources are hardly going to confirm it, you were always going to get a denial. In any event you may have done everybody a favour, by letting the club know, it's in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 7 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 7 October, 2008 and MLT busted a gut.You would not believe the debates I had with fellow fans when he first came into the team about his laziness and attitude. DMG wants us to win as much as any other player on the pitch. Well maybe it's time he disciplined himself, plays in the position assigned, covers his defenders, marks the assigned opponent at dead ball situations, and plays like he cares. MLT he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 7 October, 2008 Share Posted 7 October, 2008 It's information from unatributable sources. You carry on believing what you like. Your sources are hardly going to confirm it, you were always going to get a denial. In any event you may have done everybody a favour, by letting the club know, it's in the public domain. I suspect that the club read some of the nonsense on here and see the rumours and laugh at a lot of it. I would not expect Weston to break peoples trust, but he also does not wish to put his name to such claims that have been made on his behalf. Unless DMG his agent or RL come out and state it how else would fans like you take a denial? Even if they did some would say 'well they would say that wouldn't they.' Wheras a fan can come on try and reinforce an unfounded rumour and then it becomes fact. Again do you really believe that a 19year old would be guarenteed a starting place for this season however they played? If so I'm surprised at the naiviety of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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