Simply NOT good enough Jan/Lowe

[JohnnyFartPants]

And you REALLY believe all that ?????

 

If you honestly think that Lowe will EVER allow anyone near HIS Club, with Investment that would mean Lowe's Power Base to be eroded ........ then you are seriously deluding yourself

 

He attracted **** all during his First Reign of power

He will attract **** all during this one

 

WHY do people think he ( and Wilde ) have come back for the benefit of SAINTS ????

 

Wake up people !!! ...... they care about BUSINESS.... not FOOTBALL

 

 

How can he ensure business is ok for himself while also making the football club a failure? I do not understand this view at all. His business is the club, so if it fails then he has no business. They go hand in glove together, surely. He might be crap but he doesn't have a master plan to maximise his earnings while allowing the club to flounder.

[SaintRichmond]

How can he ensure business is ok for himself while also making the football club a failure? I do not understand this view at all. His business is the club, so if it fails then he has no business. They go hand in glove together, surely. He might be crap but he doesn't have a master plan to maximise his earnings while allowing the club to flounder.

 

 

WHY do you go to St Mary's ?? ....... to watch Football ?? ..... to watch Saints ??

 

.... Yes ????

 

Me Too

 

But the STANDARD of Football we want or like to see is not necessarily the STANDARD of Football that Lowe, as a BUSINESSMAN, is happy to serve up

 

Lowe can run SFC as a BUSINESS, a viable BUSINESS, making a profit for the PLC ......... but the Team WE see on the pitch may not be the sort of Team that we want to see

 

IMHO, Lowe will be quite happy to see a Saints Team stabilising to a Mid Table CCC side, with young players being sold off each and every "transfer window" to balance the books ......... EASY ......... In his eyes, the Team will not be a failure, because from a Business point of view, he can get a lot of money in from the Academy Treadmill ............

 

By running the PLC like that, he will be deemed a success, and from a Business point of view, he will be, keeping the PLC happy

 

But the Football Team(s) will never seriously challenge for anything higher than CCC mediocrity ........... but they will not be deemed FAILURES either

 

THAT is the difference between being a SAINTS Supporter, and a Chairman of a PLC, only working for, and answering to the PLC

[up and away]

LMFAO.

 

Seeing as I am one of the biggest Lowe-haters on this site, and have been clamouring for administration for bloody months in order to get Lowe out of the club once-and-for-all, it really is hillarious to be called an idiot that thinks Lowe will buy the club in administration :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

You might want to rethink that post...

 

Originally Posted by alpine_saint

Originally Posted by Snowballs2

It will be interesting to see just how long it will take Lowe and Wilde to admit we are ****ed, and file for administration.

Quite a number believe that Lowe will try and buy the PLC on the cheap, even he is not silly enough to do that, the support would be the same as it is today if he did. It would go into administration again pretty quickly simply because most of us do not want him any where near our club.

I agree. If Lowe buys the club in admin, he's just throwing away money that might have done more good now...

:confused: It's perfectly acceptable being a schizoid nowadays, but you really should talk to each other.

[dubai_phil]

And you REALLY believe all that ?????

 

If you honestly think that Lowe will EVER allow anyone near HIS Club, with Investment that would mean Lowe's Power Base to be eroded ........ then you are seriously deluding yourself

 

He attracted **** all during his First Reign of power

He will attract **** all during this one

 

WHY do people think he ( and Wilde ) have come back for the benefit of SAINTS ????

 

Wake up people !!! ...... they care about BUSINESS.... not FOOTBALL

 

Oh dear.

 

I'm not deluding myself and I am not stating anything to do with Lowe.

 

In case you had not noticed, Rupert does NOT run the club at this point in time, Barclays Bank does so currently we have an employee of one of those marvellously professional organisations that have sp8nked away zillions in your and my life savings in search of a quick buck making the decisions about how much money we have available to spend on anything.

 

My observations were NOTHING to do with a takeover or the sale of shares, simply an analysis of SURVIVAL and why it is highly unlikely that the Bank is particularly bothered about our attendances when the club are improving the resale value of the assets (ie Kids) so that the bank can get it's money back.

 

IMHO we will NOT see ANY indications that we have further financial difficulties - simply because it will allow the BANK to get the MAXIMUM in any negotiation for ANY of the kids we can sell in January.

 

I didn't even BOTHER to point out that it would be un-necessary if we were getting 25.000 a week as that is simply la-la land at the moment as is expecting Lowe to give his shares away, Paul Allen buying us or UK house prices recovering this week.

 

But thanks for the useful contribution regarding Lowe's personal motives and attitude, I', sure all 30 posters left on here had forgotten all about it

[Andy Durman]

I am incredibly upbeat about our team. The quality we possess.

 

Get a grip some of you and start seeing the bigger picture.

 

Our youngsters have kept us out of the relegation positions without experience. Now they have experience and they are learning. Some of the play against Coventry was fantastic. Yes the defending was poor, but they are learning and I for one am realiy enjoying watching.

 

Keep it up JP.

 

Saints are on the up!

[JohnnyFartPants]

WHY do you go to St Mary's ?? ....... to watch Football ?? ..... to watch Saints ??

 

.... Yes ????

 

Me Too

 

But the STANDARD of Football we want or like to see is not necessarily the STANDARD of Football that Lowe, as a BUSINESSMAN, is happy to serve up

 

Lowe can run SFC as a BUSINESS, a viable BUSINESS, making a profit for the PLC ......... but the Team WE see on the pitch may not be the sort of Team that we want to see

 

IMHO, Lowe will be quite happy to see a Saints Team stabilising to a Mid Table CCC side, with young players being sold off each and every "transfer window" to balance the books ......... EASY ......... In his eyes, the Team will not be a failure, because from a Business point of view, he can get a lot of money in from the Academy Treadmill ............

 

By running the PLC like that, he will be deemed a success, and from a Business point of view, he will be, keeping the PLC happy

 

But the Football Team(s) will never seriously challenge for anything higher than CCC mediocrity ........... but they will not be deemed FAILURES either

 

THAT is the difference between being a SAINTS Supporter, and a Chairman of a PLC, only working for, and answering to the PLC

 

 

So Lowe wouldn't like the increased revenue for all the same reasons you mentioned, shareholders etc? He/they wouldn't be interested in more money coming their way?

 

If your theory is right then why build St Mary's in the first place? He could have steered the whole thing down as many dead ends as it had previously done, cashed in on MLT and had us relegated to this position of favoured shareholder position that you allude to.

 

The facts are that he will be keeping the PLC even happier in the Premiership than he would in the top half of the CCC.

 

The only thing I will agree with you on is that Lowe would, for the short term, be happy with mid table stability, as it will have proven that his long term gamble is paying off, slowly but surely.

[Snowballs2]

I am incredibly upbeat about our team. The quality we possess.

 

Get a grip some of you and start seeing the bigger picture.

 

Our youngsters have kept us out of the relegation positions without experience. Now they have experience and they are learning. Some of the play against Coventry was fantastic. Yes the defending was poor, but they are learning and I for one am realiy enjoying watching.

 

Keep it up JP.

 

Saints are on the up!

 

 

Yep they have learned so much that they got stuffed on Saturday by 4 goals to 1 Please give me a rest from your silly poitivety

[solentstars]

Oh dear.

 

I'm not deluding myself and I am not stating anything to do with Lowe.

 

In case you had not noticed, Rupert does NOT run the club at this point in time, Barclays Bank does so currently we have an employee of one of those marvellously professional organisations that have sp8nked away zillions in your and my life savings in search of a quick buck making the decisions about how much money we have available to spend on anything.

 

My observations were NOTHING to do with a takeover or the sale of shares, simply an analysis of SURVIVAL and why it is highly unlikely that the Bank is particularly bothered about our attendances when the club are improving the resale value of the assets (ie Kids) so that the bank can get it's money back.

 

IMHO we will NOT see ANY indications that we have further financial difficulties - simply because it will allow the BANK to get the MAXIMUM in any negotiation for ANY of the kids we can sell in January.

 

I didn't even BOTHER to point out that it would be un-necessary if we were getting 25.000 a week as that is simply la-la land at the moment as is expecting Lowe to give his shares away, Paul Allen buying us or UK house prices recovering this week.

 

But thanks for the useful contribution regarding Lowe's personal motives and attitude, I', sure all 30 posters left on here had forgotten all about it

 

good post but they are not worried about reality ,its lowe this lowe that with them ,just let them get on with it .

[solentstars]

I am incredibly upbeat about our team. The quality we possess.

 

Get a grip some of you and start seeing the bigger picture.

 

Our youngsters have kept us out of the relegation positions without experience. Now they have experience and they are learning. Some of the play against Coventry was fantastic. Yes the defending was poor, but they are learning and I for one am realiy enjoying watching.

 

Keep it up JP.

 

Saints are on the up!

good post now you done it,wait for the doom and gloom merchants to reply.

[EFM]

Well I don't want to be picky SS but I think a quick look at the league tables before and after the weekend will quite conclusively prove that we aren't on the way up.

 

Call me a doom merchant if you will but dropping five places is definately DOWNWARDS.

[puff the magic dragon]

Well I don't want to be picky SS but I think a quick look at the league tables before and after the weekend will quite conclusively prove that we aren't on the way up.

 

Call me a doom merchant if you will but dropping five places is definately DOWNWARDS.

 

:badgrin:

[jam]

We won't go into admin.

 

Simple facts - there are about 15 weeks until the transfer window re-opens

 

The policy of "blooding the youngsters" has seen the development of Lallana especially, but also "to a certain extent" Gillett, James, DMG, as well as the emergence of Kelvin as a "quality shot stopper". That gives ALL of those kids a resale value.

 

Barclays Bank hold the purse strings, they make the decisions. Norwich Union are a preffered creditor as would be the tax & VAT man. By allowing the club to continue trading and to continue giving the kids experience, BARCLAYS are simply ensuring that come January, the Academy youngsters CAN be sold to cover the bank overdraft and so they avoid becoming BOTTOM of the pile in an admin situation.

 

MEANWHILE we have been bringing in players who are NOT of value yet, on which we have loan extansion options come January and who are feeling their way into our style. The next generation - Gasmi, Pulis, Schneiderlin, Lancashire, White, Hatch, Mills, Holmes, Peckhart/Robertson/Smith maybe will have become more experienced.

 

Whether they could actually keep us in the league is another matter, but what it buys the Bank, and the club is TIME to try and find a white knight or for the "maybe forlorn" hope that they will click as a team.

 

Over the weekend I have been thinking this through and it starts to make sense, forget the attendances, as far as the BANK are concerned player sales will trade us out of the last of the fiscal mire and reduce their exposure. The lower gates just mean we EITHER have to get MORE for our kids OR more of them have to be sold. It will reach the point where even 450k for say James will be needed.

 

There is NO way the bank will pull the plug UNTIL after they maximise the amount of money they can get back from sales. Put us in Admin , we'd get 75 quid for Lallana and the bank would get nothing.

 

Any other replacements? Well if they don't go THEN I think we'll see Thomas, Euell & Rudi used far more. they have little resale value, are costing 2mil a year and so the kids will be sold to give us what many are asking for - Rudi back in the team... But right NOW their presence in the team would IN THEORY stop a youngster INCREASINg his value by keeping him out the team. (As well as adding cost pressures for bonuses etc)

 

Hope he's worth it and hope I'm wrong

 

Interesting post, Phil. Sadly that looks like the game plan. If we somehow get £3m for Lallana in January then the books look a little better and the club gets abit more time.

 

And if we're lucky someone might splash out on a new defender.

 

Good innit.

 

Also sadly, it says a lot about the pantomime villain mentality on this site that your post got interpreted by one poster as somehow pro-Lowe...

[jam]

Well I don't want to be picky SS but I think a quick look at the league tables before and after the weekend will quite conclusively prove that we aren't on the way up.

 

Call me a doom merchant if you will but dropping five places is definately DOWNWARDS.

 

Yeah, and if you look at the league tables tonight and two weeks ago (comparing THREE games to ONE) then we've moved upwards.

 

Isn't being selective with the satitistics fun...

[Totton Red]

Oh dear.

 

I'm not deluding myself and I am not stating anything to do with Lowe.

 

In case you had not noticed, Rupert does NOT run the club at this point in time, Barclays Bank does so currently we have an employee of one of those marvellously professional organisations that have sp8nked away zillions in your and my life savings in search of a quick buck making the decisions about how much money we have available to spend on anything.

 

My observations were NOTHING to do with a takeover or the sale of shares, simply an analysis of SURVIVAL and why it is highly unlikely that the Bank is particularly bothered about our attendances when the club are improving the resale value of the assets (ie Kids) so that the bank can get it's money back.

 

IMHO we will NOT see ANY indications that we have further financial difficulties - simply because it will allow the BANK to get the MAXIMUM in any negotiation for ANY of the kids we can sell in January.

 

I didn't even BOTHER to point out that it would be un-necessary if we were getting 25.000 a week as that is simply la-la land at the moment as is expecting Lowe to give his shares away, Paul Allen buying us or UK house prices recovering this week.

 

But thanks for the useful contribution regarding Lowe's personal motives and attitude, I', sure all 30 posters left on here had forgotten all about it

 

Do you really have any idea how big business works? Play the kids as Possible future assets? PLC is about today and thats about avoiding relegation.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by dubai_phil

Oh dear.

 

I'm not deluding myself and I am not stating anything to do with Lowe.

 

In case you had not noticed, Rupert does NOT run the club at this point in time, Barclays Bank does so currently we have an employee of one of those marvellously professional organisations that have sp8nked away zillions in your and my life savings in search of a quick buck making the decisions about how much money we have available to spend on anything.

 

My observations were NOTHING to do with a takeover or the sale of shares, simply an analysis of SURVIVAL and why it is highly unlikely that the Bank is particularly bothered about our attendances when the club are improving the resale value of the assets (ie Kids) so that the bank can get it's money back.

 

IMHO we will NOT see ANY indications that we have further financial difficulties - simply because it will allow the BANK to get the MAXIMUM in any negotiation for ANY of the kids we can sell in January.

 

I didn't even BOTHER to point out that it would be un-necessary if we were getting 25.000 a week as that is simply la-la land at the moment as is expecting Lowe to give his shares away, Paul Allen buying us or UK house prices recovering this week.

 

But thanks for the useful contribution regarding Lowe's personal motives and attitude, I', sure all 30 posters left on here had forgotten all about it

Do you really have any idea how big business works? Play the kids as Possible future assets? PLC is about today and thats about avoiding relegation.

 

Not only do we have to avoid relegation, we have to show the bank we can develop revenue for the future, enabling us to trade in the future. Another important aspect that would have originally presented to the bank will have been revenue from gate receipts. Such is the precarious financial position of the club that all these balls have to be kept in the air for our survival and it does not look good at this present time. Our only chance in all of this is for player sales to get us out of trouble and as we have had little luck with every senior pro at the club, selling some youth players remain our only hope. Any other normal business and the plug would have already been pulled, but for some reason football clubs lead a charmed life in this respect.

 

The ability to borrow / continue to borrow against what few remaining assets we have is going to be precarious in the current market. Your only chance is to get the bank to buy into the idea that we can square that by developing the youth, there is no other source / opportunity available to us. If the bank get jittery or they don't see the youth policy working out and they can halt things there and then.

 

This is not only for this season but for several seasons to come. The plan has to be both long and short term or the bank may see little point in continuing. We have got ourselves into a extraordinary financial mess of epic proportions over the last few years by living beyond our means, only to wander into a world economic crisis of possible equal severity. I don't realistically feel we can get out of this with the current gate receipts, but that is down to the fans and as a club we will get what we deserve. If our own fans can't support this club, why should anyone else.

[saint1977]

From what I recall, the Stadium is not owned by the Football Club Ltd but by another subsidiary of SLH. In theory even IF we went into admin as a CLUB, the stadium could still sit in the subsidiary and not be affected. the debt would likely still be there, but the BIG difference would be that the "new SFC 2008" would then have to pay rent on the stadium. No doubt the subsidiary would expect to make a profit between the mortgage and the rent - thus staying at SMS would actually burden the footballing side even MORE than it is now.

My main thrust is that the stadium debt is pretty much irrelevant to Barclays Bank. IF they liquidated the club NOW they'd get very little of their overdraft back as anything left over after tax, VAT and salaries would go to Norwich Union IF the entire SLH was broken up. So in fact it is in the interests of the BANK to keep us trading, and allow us to cash in players in January.

 

I THINK we had a hangover of non-stadium debt and higher wage bills after the transfer window closed. I THINK that the idea of staying in business until the end of the January window MAY allow us to have a sustainable business model based on crowds of 12,000. The HUGE worry is of course whether the players left could keep us in thes division.

 

But at LEAST it buys us TIME. All we really need now is for ENOUGH results before that point to make the job easier.

 

Like I said I may be wrong but a long slow admin to TRY and have a clean rump business left over that MAY be attractive for a buyer is about the only way I can interpret the lack of panic about gates and results in the "official" pronouncements from the club

 

Good initial post and even better follow-up Phil and I wouldn't mind betting it's quite close to the mark. Let's face it, there's hardly been any (at all) OS articles yelling "get behind the team" or any attempt to attract extra walk-up beyond STs so you may well be correct. I do share your concern about staying in the division though, what happens I wonder if the white knight doesn't arrive in the New Year or Askham and Wilde (the main players let's face it) hold their proxies together and ask for money no-one would pay? - would the bank force them out? Interesting idea though to look at it from Barclays' perspective.

[saint1977]

Not only do we have to avoid relegation, we have to show the bank we can develop revenue for the future, enabling us to trade in the future. Another important aspect that would have originally presented to the bank will have been revenue from gate receipts. Such is the precarious financial position of the club that all these balls have to be kept in the air for our survival and it does not look good at this present time. Our only chance in all of this is for player sales to get us out of trouble and as we have had little luck with every senior pro at the club, selling some youth players remain our only hope. Any other normal business and the plug would have already been pulled, but for some reason football clubs lead a charmed life in this respect.

 

The ability to borrow / continue to borrow against what few remaining assets we have is going to be precarious in the current market. Your only chance is to get the bank to buy into the idea that we can square that by developing the youth, there is no other source / opportunity available to us. If the bank get jittery or they don't see the youth policy working out and they can halt things there and then.

 

This is not only for this season but for several seasons to come. The plan has to be both long and short term or the bank may see little point in continuing. We have got ourselves into a extraordinary financial mess of epic proportions over the last few years by living beyond our means, only to wander into a world economic crisis of possible equal severity. I don't realistically feel we can get out of this with the current gate receipts, but that is down to the fans and as a club we will get what we deserve. If our own fans can't support this club, why should anyone else.

 

No offence intended but a bit simplistic perhaps, I think Phil may have hit the nail on the head, gates are almost now an irrelevant part of the game. It's all about assets and preferred creditors now. We're stuck really - Askham as non-fan will just squeeze what he can out of SFC on top of his already obscene profits and Wilde is in a real hole, he can't just write off what he's invested in his shares - GM has posted previously that a number of Wilde's interests allegedly aren't going so hot. I'll keep going but until we see the back of Wilde and Askham, I don't see why people should spend even more (and £26 is a lot on a walk-up ticket for an U19 side in a downturn period) on proven failures like Guy and Mike.

 

Something has to give by May, that is the only fact we can probably all agree on.

[Torres]

Is it another Nigel Pearson who worked with the English U21's then?

 

Sorry fella, but that is where you are completely wrong. He does have a track record of working with youth, and at a higher level than JP (this is not to knock JP who I have a lot of respect for simply a fact that so many overlook). NP has worked with every level of the England set up, up to and including u21.

 

Steve Wigley has a wealth of experience working with kids, including England U21.

 

In any case, he seems to be doing quite well this season as well, as far as I can see, certainly better than the pillock before him.

 

In a league below, with a multi-millionaire backing him. Not quite the same circumstances....

[up and away]

Originally Posted by up and away

Not only do we have to avoid relegation, we have to show the bank we can develop revenue for the future, enabling us to trade in the future. Another important aspect that would have originally presented to the bank will have been revenue from gate receipts. Such is the precarious financial position of the club that all these balls have to be kept in the air for our survival and it does not look good at this present time. Our only chance in all of this is for player sales to get us out of trouble and as we have had little luck with every senior pro at the club, selling some youth players remain our only hope. Any other normal business and the plug would have already been pulled, but for some reason football clubs lead a charmed life in this respect.

 

The ability to borrow / continue to borrow against what few remaining assets we have is going to be precarious in the current market. Your only chance is to get the bank to buy into the idea that we can square that by developing the youth, there is no other source / opportunity available to us. If the bank get jittery or they don't see the youth policy working out and they can halt things there and then.

 

This is not only for this season but for several seasons to come. The plan has to be both long and short term or the bank may see little point in continuing. We have got ourselves into a extraordinary financial mess of epic proportions over the last few years by living beyond our means, only to wander into a world economic crisis of possible equal severity. I don't realistically feel we can get out of this with the current gate receipts, but that is down to the fans and as a club we will get what we deserve. If our own fans can't support this club, why should anyone else.

No offence intended but a bit simplistic perhaps, I think Phil may have hit the nail on the head, gates are almost now an irrelevant part of the game. It's all about assets and preferred creditors now. We're stuck really - Askham as non-fan will just squeeze what he can out of SFC on top of his already obscene profits and Wilde is in a real hole, he can't just write off what he's invested in his shares - GM has posted previously that a number of Wilde's interests allegedly aren't going so hot. I'll keep going but until we see the back of Wilde and Askham, I don't see why people should spend even more (and £26 is a lot on a walk-up ticket for an U19 side in a downturn period) on proven failures like Guy and Mike.

 

Something has to give by May, that is the only fact we can probably all agree on.

 

Simplistic or otherwise, that is not really a problem. But I cannot see anything within your post that has any merit.

I completely agree with Phil regarding the financial situation forcing the path of developing the youth. The issue of gate receipts is a completely different matter and the main source of our income in the CCC. So any major drop in that revenue stream has a very big effect.

Not a supporter at all of Askham, but fail to see any relevance in what you have stated or proof thereof. I don't know what money he has dragged out of the club, but as far as I know he still has all his original shares and has not cashed in, unlike McMenemy? Askham to me is an irrelevance, he has nothing to do with the running of the club and the only possible remuneration he could have obtained over the last 10 years, would have been from dividends and directors expenses. If Askham has received more than a fraction of a % from the clubs income over this period, I would be surprised.

 

As for Wildes interests and finances it is not as clear cut as GM makes out. Just because Wilde has taken the assets from Merlion under his personal holding makes no difference at all. Future profits from Merlion look remote, but it does not diminish his already established assets, even safeguards them.

[Chez]

I am incredibly upbeat about our team. The quality we possess.

 

Get a grip some of you and start seeing the bigger picture.

 

Our youngsters have kept us out of the relegation positions without experience. Now they have experience and they are learning. Some of the play against Coventry was fantastic. Yes the defending was poor, but they are learning and I for one am realiy enjoying watching.

 

Keep it up JP.

 

Saints are on the up!

 

you enjoyed watching us getting torn to shreds by an average Cov side? Each to their own.

[Long Shot]

I am incredibly upbeat about our team. The quality we possess.

 

Get a grip some of you and start seeing the bigger picture.

 

Our youngsters have kept us out of the relegation positions without experience. Now they have experience and they are learning. Some of the play against Coventry was fantastic. Yes the defending was poor, but they are learning and I for one am realiy enjoying watching.

 

Keep it up JP.

 

Saints are on the up!

 

 

Please go and see that shrink, mate - I am worried about your mental health.

[um pahars]

Our only chance in all of this is for player sales to get us out of trouble

 

And when those players are sold, I do hope you add the income to your tally of money pis5sed up against the wall over recent years, and then also add Lowe and Wilde to those who you think presided over the aforementioned pis5sing up the wall.

[Dalek2003]

The Dutch clown should be playing Rudi Skacel. Personally i couldn't give a flying **** about what's gone on in the past, it's up to Portvliet to iron out any problems. Leaving our best player out is madness.

 

That's the attitude people should have taken in spring 2004, but instead we sacrificed the club to some vindictive vendetta.

[EFM]

Yeah, and if you look at the league tables tonight and two weeks ago (comparing THREE games to ONE) then we've moved upwards.

 

Isn't being selective with the satitistics fun...

 

Yep. I can't wait until we get on to where we were 5 years ago and where we are now. Definately a club "on the up".

 

Listen, I think Jan is doing his best with what was left for him to work with but please don't bury your head in the sand and say these are great days for us because we aren't in the bottom three of the CCC. They're the worst in 40 odd years of following us.

 

I would love to say we are moving on, going somewhere, going to challenge for the play offs, looking finaially sorted etc etc but I think I would be deluding myself.

 

We're in the biggest ****e I can recall and that's unfortunately the truth of it.

[um pahars]

Listen, I think Jan is doing his best with what was left for him to work with but please don't bury your head in the sand and say these are great days for us because we aren't in the bottom three of the CCC. They're the worst in 40 odd years of following us.

 

A very succinct point.

 

I didn't go on the pitch after the Sheffield United game, because quite frankly I wasn't overly enamoured at celebrating escaping the drop to Division 3.

 

Similarly, I'm not convinced that we should be thankful we're not in the bottom three of the second division.

[TopGun]

Please go and see that shrink, mate - I am worried about your mental health.

 

Don't believe the hype about possible alternatives though Long Shot. Unless you know there's a gazillionaire backing half **** plans.

[Whitey Grandad]

I am incredibly upbeat about our team. The quality we possess.

 

Get a grip some of you and start seeing the bigger picture.

 

Our youngsters have kept us out of the relegation positions without experience. Now they have experience and they are learning. Some of the play against Coventry was fantastic. Yes the defending was poor, but they are learning and I for one am realiy enjoying watching.

 

Keep it up JP.

 

Saints are on the up!

If you think that was fantastic, then you are living in a fantasy world.

[Red and White Army]

Similarly, I'm not convinced that we should be thankful we're not in the bottom three of the second division.

 

Time to stop living the past then matey. We don't have a God-given right to be in the Premier league, much as that pains me.

[um pahars]

Time to stop living the past then matey. We don't have a God-given right to be in the Premier league, much as that pains me.

 

You've just made a huge leap there to assume that because I'm not overly flattered by being out of the relegation battle to Div 3, that I also think we have a divine right to be in the top flight.

 

Great logic fella:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Red and White Army]

You've just made a huge leap there to assume that because I'm not overly flattered by being out of the relegation battle to Div 3, that I also think we have a divine right to be in the top flight.

 

Where do you think we should be then?

 

LOL at Div 3 too - shows how backwards your thinking is to be honest. You're living in the past my friend.

[derry]

Where do you think we should be then?

 

LOL at Div 3 too - shows how backwards your thinking is to be honest. You're living in the past my friend.

 

More realistic than calling it div 1. Whatever spin is put on the league, Championship is the 2nd division, and div 1 is the 3rd division, call it whatever you like it doesn't change the reality.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by up and away

Our only chance in all of this is for player sales to get us out of trouble

And when those players are sold, I do hope you add the income to your tally of money pis5sed up against the wall over recent years, and then also add Lowe and Wilde to those who you think presided over the aforementioned pis5sing up the wall.

 

There is absolutely no choice now, this money has to go on getting us out of the financial mess we are in. The reason we are in this financial mess is because the previous money from player sales was totally wasted and the spend allowed to continue on the basis of investment being around the corner. If you can't work that out, best to keep quiet and leave some doubt.

[StubbSaint]

Agreed!, we all understand the financial mess we are in, but at least we could have been given a fighting chance by having a manager with a bit of knowledge about this league.

 

I am sure NP would have stayed on and worked with these kids, but no, in his wisdom, Lowe decides to gamble lock ,stock and barrel at a time when the club is already in a vulnerable state.

 

This is not a situation forced on us by finances, this is a situation forced on us by a guy who has a history of making almighty blunders, and that is a pill many of us do not want or have to swallow.

i agree the dutch joker signed 2 injured midfielders , when wot we really needed was 2 fullbacks , qpr and coventry have both stuck 4 past us , and at best they will only be mid table ,what will happen when we play the likes of reading away

[Bon Call Night]

We can understand why we are doing what we are doing ,but Mr Lowe was the single biggest reason we are in this mess & the slightest bit of humility from the man may make the medicine taste a wee bit better.

 

When your house is on fire you can spend a lot of time appointing and discussing blame, surely the priority is to first put out the fire?

 

It really is time to put this stuff in the past and move forward, this continual raking of the past is only acting like an anchor to the club, fans not going, reduced revenue, lack of atmosphere, poor displays.

 

I am sure you broke a window at some stage in your life are you still arguing over who did it or is it fixed and forgotten?

[Bon Call Night]

If you think that was fantastic, then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

Then you fail to see the point! I am sure you remember the time when Southampton was all fields - the kids play some excellent football and although 4-1 was a poor result it does not reflect the positives within the side.

 

Let's face it their first goal was offside - they got given a dubious penalty which they thankfully missed - this is wherer the weakness is in the side - confidence and miserbale sods like you do not help that!!!

[offix]

Where do you think we should be then?

 

LOL at Div 3 too - shows how backwards your thinking is to be honest. You're living in the past my friend.

 

It doesn't matter what euphemism you use to name it. Premier is still the 1st tier, CCC is still second tier no matter what you call it, and "league 1" is still THIRD tier.

 

We are in Div 2, heading for division 3.

[Whitey Grandad]

Then you fail to see the point! I am sure you remember the time when Southampton was all fields - the kids play some excellent football and although 4-1 was a poor result it does not reflect the positives within the side.

 

Let's face it their first goal was offside - they got given a dubious penalty which they thankfully missed - this is wherer the weakness is in the side - confidence and miserbale sods like you do not help that!!!

There was absolutely nothing offside about the first goal - it was abject defending, nothing less. Pretty much the same comment applies to the rest of the game and no amount of confidence could ever cover up for that. Look again at their second goal and see how McGoldrick 'marks' their scorer. We were wide open on both flanks and we posed very little threat going forward. There was a short spell where we passed it around prettily in the middle but apart from that we were soundly beaten and to pretend otherwise is to be living in a fantasy world - hence my comment.

[Bon Call Night]

There was absolutely nothing offside about the first goal - it was abject defending, nothing less. Pretty much the same comment applies to the rest of the game and no amount of confidence could ever cover up for that. Look again at their second goal and see how McGoldrick 'marks' their scorer. We were wide open on both flanks and we posed very little threat going forward. There was a short spell where we passed it around prettily in the middle but apart from that we were soundly beaten and to pretend otherwise is to be living in a fantasy world - hence my comment.

 

I suggest you watch the coverage again re first goal!!!

 

And then stop being a misery!!!

[Big Ron fan]

When your house is on fire you can spend a lot of time appointing and discussing blame, surely the priority is to first put out the fire?

It really is time to put this stuff in the past and move forward, this continual raking of the past is only acting like an anchor to the club, fans not going, reduced revenue, lack of atmosphere, poor displays.

 

I am sure you broke a window at some stage in your life are you still arguing over who did it or is it fixed and forgotten?

 

Yes, but when the firemen turn up and they're the same pyromaniacs who started the fire in the first place, you realise the fire is not likely to be put out!

[Saint Billy]

Yes, but when the firemen turn up and they're the same pyromaniacs who started the fire in the first place, you realise the fire is not likely to be put out!

 

In the back of the net!!

[Whitey Grandad]

I suggest you watch the coverage again re first goal!!!

 

And then stop being a misery!!!

If I keep watching it it really would make me miserable! - and who on earth do you think was offside?

[um pahars]

There is absolutely no choice now, this money has to go on getting us out of the financial mess we are in.

 

And what exactly is the financial mess we are now in all about then????

 

Quite simply (and I'll have to keep it simple for you) it's all down to only having income of £13m-£14m and costs being higher than this.

 

We're still running at an operational loss (even under Lowe) and player sales will have to fill the void.

 

Just as they did in the first season down when we were £9m down on operational cash (£16m before the one off parachute payments). And so they did again the second season down (the third season down under Hone was awful, but that's a seperate story).

 

And if you claimed all those player sales were ****ed up against the wall during the period under Wilde and Hone, then you must also be consistent and call the next batch of player sales as also being ****ed up the wall again (this time by Lowe & Wilde).

 

Additionally, you should also have called all those player sales in the first season down under Lowe as being ****ed up against the wall.

 

So is it only ****ed up against the wall when Wilde or Crouch did it, but when Hone or Lowe did exacly the same thing it's called something entirely different:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

But consistency of argument is not one of your strengths is it;).

[saint1977]

Simplistic or otherwise, that is not really a problem. But I cannot see anything within your post that has any merit.

I completely agree with Phil regarding the financial situation forcing the path of developing the youth. The issue of gate receipts is a completely different matter and the main source of our income in the CCC. So any major drop in that revenue stream has a very big effect.

Not a supporter at all of Askham, but fail to see any relevance in what you have stated or proof thereof. I don't know what money he has dragged out of the club, but as far as I know he still has all his original shares and has not cashed in, unlike McMenemy? Askham to me is an irrelevance, he has nothing to do with the running of the club and the only possible remuneration he could have obtained over the last 10 years, would have been from dividends and directors expenses. If Askham has received more than a fraction of a % from the clubs income over this period, I would be surprised.

 

As for Wildes interests and finances it is not as clear cut as GM makes out. Just because Wilde has taken the assets from Merlion under his personal holding makes no difference at all. Future profits from Merlion look remote, but it does not diminish his already established assets, even safeguards them.

 

It would still be a % fraction too many but I believe it to be more than that. Askham's relevance is that he's holding one of the main proxies together and has also been a regular visitor to SMS for the first time in years. I think you'll find he's got more involved again. Even if Wilde hasn't lost a pile I don't see anything in your arguments that suggests he can move SFC forward as the major shareholder.

[offix]

And you REALLY believe all that ?????

 

If you honestly think that Lowe will EVER allow anyone near HIS Club, with Investment that would mean Lowe's Power Base to be eroded ........ then you are seriously deluding yourself

 

He attracted **** all during his First Reign of power

He will attract **** all during this one

 

WHY do people think he ( and Wilde ) have come back for the benefit of SAINTS ????

 

Wake up people !!! ...... they care about BUSINESS.... not FOOTBALL

 

Actually, he did. He attracted the quisling, and ensuring himself unlimited power as part of the deal.

[SaintRichmond]

Then you fail to see the point! I am sure you remember the time when Southampton was all fields - the kids play some excellent football and although 4-1 was a poor result it does not reflect the positives within the side.

 

Let's face it their first goal was offside - they got given a dubious penalty which they thankfully missed - this is wherer the weakness is in the side - confidence and miserbale sods like you do not help that!!!

 

 

 

Miserable Sod here ..........

 

What Bugs me most, about the present "Team", is that I, and Many Many more, can see that the Achiles Heel is the DEFENCE

 

THE DEFENCE JAN

 

 

It is when Poortvliet & Co either cannot see that, or choose to completely ignore it, that makes me "moan and groan" ......... because, as a Season Ticket Holder, I expect the Manager/ Coach to be able to see things like that