The Spending Review (tackling the Socialists debt mountain)

[Whitey Grandad]

Another point worth considering.... Of the 500,000 public sector jobs that will go, half were taken on since the start of the recession.

[1976_Child]

Was watching Question Time last night from Middlesbrough. Apparently 50% of all employment in the city is for the public sector. Well with all their ****ing cushy jobs, low hours, high pensions and good pay you would have thought that more might be able to go support their local football team more often.

 

[dune]

Waste of time trying to debate with the Rabid Right on here really. Delldays has no understanding of politics/history having no clue about the effects of Thatcher had on the the working class people of this country, Tory Boy Bognor would defend the Tories whatever they did, Benji thinks the cuts are not bad and don't affect the poor/weakness in society and Stanley Dun©e is a seriously disturbed individual who is beyone help. This place is like the Daily (Hate)Mail these days.

 

[buctootim]

Some questions for you economists out there. In round figures 1 million jobs are going, 500,000 in private sector and the same in the public sector. Has anyone costed this in terms of in redundancy payments, reduced tax revenues, increased benefits paid out. What do we save by doing this?

 

We allegedly pay £140 million a day in interest to service our debt. To whom are we repaying it. A serious question if I may. Why don't we refuse to pay back the interest on the loans. Be nice in your reply. I can't understand why if the Bank of England is our bank we have to pay any interest on monies the country has borrowed....we would certainly have to pay the money back.

 

What is quantative easing if its not just printing money? Why do you have to pay interest on something created out of thin air as in money?

 

We borrow money by selling Gilts on the international markets. If we don't pay back the interest then we shall have defaulted on these loans and we shall never be able to borrow anything again. Basically, we would be f****d.

 

Its true it would be fatal to default on our debt. We'd lose far more than we save. I still dont get quantitative easing though. As far as I understand it is printing our own money and buying bonds with it. Whether those bonds are the UKs own debts, or corporate debt it means that by printing the cash we have either bought £200bn worth of assets for nothing, or saved ourselves from taking on another £200bn of debt. Whats not to like? Lets do it again, pay off some more debt, create a bit of inflation and erode a big chunk of the rest.

[Johnny Bognor]

I tried to post last night but it said i'd run out of posts( i thought i had one more as well, i even wrote it all out to be told i couldn't post ) I will answer your question 1, Tony Blair was just a vain self centered ***** who fooled a lot of people, me included. I think he is a war criminal because if the press knew that the weapons dossier was stolen from a students essay so did the government and MI5, therefore he went to war for a neoliberal agenda of privatising Iraq's oil,in my opinion . Gordon Brown was just somebody who desperately wanted to be PM but was not really cut out for the job, But the main difference at least between GB and Thatch was that GB did things , whether you agree with them or not because he thought them the right things to do, whereas Thatch was just plain evil. It was an ideological crusade with her, revenge for the humiliating defeat in 1974 of Heath government. Laying waste to great swathes of this country( Labour voting Great swathes ) and her ideological friedmanesque experiment with this country which enriched many of her party's donors and friends. That is only my humble opinion.

 

If that is your opinion, fair enough, but you still haven't answered my question. As Bliar is a ****, who fooled you, will you celebrate his death? I will leave Brown out of it for now, as you can't put down to guile, that you can put down to incompetence

 

I have a question for any working class Tory, Do you ever get the feeling that the boys of the Bullingdon club are ****ing themselves laughing when you are doffing your caps to them by repeating their mantra that " if we tax the banks and financial institutions fairly " they will leave Britain?

 

I have no problem with taxing the banks fairly (neither do the Bully boys). It is just that your definition of fairness is different to mine. You may have allowed Labour to take the **** out of you, but I won't let anyone take the **** out of me

[dune]

Its true it would be fatal to default on our debt. We'd lose far more than we save. I still dont get quantitative easing though. As far as I understand it is printing our own money and buying bonds with it. Whether those bonds are the UKs own debts, or corporate debt it means that by printing the cash we have either bought £200bn worth of assets for nothing, or saved ourselves from taking on another £200bn of debt. Whats not to like? Lets do it again, pay off some more debt, create a bit of inflation and erode a big chunk of the rest.

 

I read somewhere that warren buffet predicts more QE from govts with the precise aim (though they would never admit it) of creating inflation to erode debt.

 

Here it is..

 

http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/this_is_money_blog/2009/08/the-qe-drug-warren-buffetts-inflation-worry.html

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Its true ANS... You are another of those "I'm alright jack" types.. You despise maggie so much because what she did effected you..

 

Not a thought for millions around the world that are dead/displaced thanks to Blair/brown..not close enough to home eh???

 

You have mistaken me for someone who supported Blair and the war.

[dune]

You have mistaken me for someone who supported Blair and the war.

 

I supported the war against Iraq because it was the right thing to do given the oil reserves in the region.

[Thedelldays]

Currently in the news - Thatcher, Miners, Gazza, UnemploymentCurrently in the charts - Spandau ballet, Pet shop boys, Human league,Currently at the cinema - Back to the future, Wall streetWhat year is it?

[dune]

Currently in the news - Thatcher, Miners, Gazza, UnemploymentCurrently in the charts - Spandau ballet, Pet shop boys, Human league,Currently at the cinema - Back to the future, Wall streetWhat year is it?

 

I'll guess 83.

 

Edit, just googled and i'm wrong.

[badgerx16]

I supported the war against Iraq because it was the right thing to do given the oil reserves in the region.

And now all the neighbouring countries in the Middle East are complaining that by destabilising Iraq we have permitted Iran to gain in influence - they saw Saddam as a bulwark supporting the Arab peoples.

[buctootim]

Currently in the news - Thatcher, Miners, Gazza, UnemploymentCurrently in the charts - Spandau ballet, Pet shop boys, Human league,Currently at the cinema - Back to the future, Wall streetWhat year is it?

 

Apart from the charts stuff and Back to the Future - 2010

[Saint Mikey]

This is best quote I've seen so far from Osbourne:

 

"Welfare spending now accounts for one third of all public spending. Benefit bills have soared by 45% under the previous government. In some cases, the benefit bill of a single out-of-work family has amounted to the tax bills of 16 working families put together. This is totally unsustainable and unfair."

 

16 Families! I'm no Tory, I'm lefty leaning and do think people who NEED help - should get it. However, the system has been fooked right up and people are taking p^ss big time. The system and also the ethos around benefits has to change. Benefits should be an absolute last resort. People should start taking more responsibility for themselves (where they can) and people should not EXPECT the Gov just to look after them.

 

As an example, someone I know, was giving Job Seekers allowance (or whatever it's termed) for months having just left college with multiple A* at GCSES and 2 A's and B at A-Level. These type of people, I'd say 'sorry, you can find a job easily - no benefits I'm afraid'.

 

I saw an article on the Guardian how a young single Mother of 3, was moaning because she needed a 4 bedroomed house, so they could have a room each! WTF! Be grateful the council found you anywhere to live.

 

Where has this expectation of deserving something for absolutely nothing, come from??

[Whitey Grandad]

I read somewhere that warren buffet predicts more QE from govts with the precise aim (though they would never admit it) of creating inflation to erode debt.

That was my first reaction at the time of the crisis. Reduce interest rates to near zero and print a load of new money. Then the government debt erodes faster than we have to pay it. Brown's big spending spree was based on the belief that growth would continue unchecked for the next 10 years or so. Silly boy.

[dune]

And now all the neighbouring countries in the Middle East are complaining that by destabilising Iraq we have permitted Iran to gain in influence - they saw Saddam as a bulwark supporting the Arab peoples.

 

A few airstrikes will put the Iranians in their place.

[buctootim]

A few airstrikes will put the Iranians in their place.

 

Cant see FF having that much influence tbh.

[Johnny Bognor]

Cant see FF having that much influence tbh.

 

If Unite can infiltrate the Iranian Airforce, it could well put them in their place

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Support Disabled people especially mentally ill to have a guaranteed job if their benefits are cut ,not just cut their benefits any way , there is far too much discrimination against them as it is. Why should the disabled suffer the most? the least unable to defend themselves due to their disability or ill health? it is disgusting as well as a cruel reflection on the rich tories.

 

 

Make sure that all companies who operate in Britain/ use British services pay their taxes ,no matter what! Never again let the Super rich companies get away with tax havens. You could just as easily say that the budget deficit has been caused by decades of tax avoidance by the super rich elite and companies. The heartless Tories are killing the poor disabled and ill so they can laugh all the way to the bank!

 

 

The real hidden cost of the pathetic ConDem cuts: Domestic violence, crime, Abuse, Homelessness, ill-health, deaths, inequality, discrimination, poverty, stealing, fear,broken families , disabled people abandoned. No such effect on the rich

[dune]

The real hidden cost of the pathetic ConDem cuts: Domestic violence, crime, Abuse, Homelessness, ill-health, deaths, inequality, discrimination, poverty, stealing, fear,broken families , disabled people abandoned. No such effect on the rich

 

I would rephrase that:

 

The real hidden risks of allowing a Socialist government loose on the economy.

 

Thankfully we now have coalition that is applying some common sense to government - you only spend what you can afford. That said Brown told us all boom and bust was over so I expect he thought Britain could live forever on the never never.

[JackFrost]

This is best quote I've seen so far from Osbourne:

 

 

 

16 Families! I'm no Tory, I'm lefty leaning and do think people who NEED help - should get it. However, the system has been fooked right up and people are taking p^ss big time. The system and also the ethos around benefits has to change. Benefits should be an absolute last resort. People should start taking more responsibility for themselves (where they can) and people should not EXPECT the Gov just to look after them.

 

As an example, someone I know, was giving Job Seekers allowance (or whatever it's termed) for months having just left college with multiple A* at GCSES and 2 A's and B at A-Level. These type of people, I'd say 'sorry, you can find a job easily - no benefits I'm afraid'.

 

I saw an article on the Guardian how a young single Mother of 3, was moaning because she needed a 4 bedroomed house, so they could have a room each! WTF! Be grateful the council found you anywhere to live.

 

Where has this expectation of deserving something for absolutely nothing, come from??

 

I got made redundant from my last job 2 years ago. After having been 6 months on JSA, I was told because I'd been on it for 6 months and had savings of over £x000 I was no longer entitled to it and no longer classed as unemployed

[JackFrost]

A few airstrikes will put the Iranians in their place.

 

That's almost what Bush said when we went into Iraq

Edited 22 October, 2010 by JackFrost

[dune]

I got made redundant from my last job 2 years ago. After having been 6 months on JSA, I was told because I'd been on it for 6 months and had savings of over £x000 I was no longer entitled to it and no longer classed as unemployed

 

And quite right too. If you can't find a job in 6 months you're not trying very hard. I'm not saying you'd find your ideal job straight away, but there's plenty of agency jobs that pay more than JSA.

[JackFrost]

And quite right too. If you can't find a job in 6 months you're not trying very hard. I'm not saying you'd find your ideal job straight away, but there's plenty of agency jobs that pay more than JSA.

 

I didn't give a toss about the money, it was a pittance anyway. I was far more interested into how I discovered one way of how Blair/Brown had massaged our unemployment figures. I got a job in the end through friends in the end and a stroke of luck. It's not what you know it's who you know.

 

Besides there were plenty of agency jobs, the problem was the number of people applying for them gave me little chance. I could have got a job within 6 months but I hung on because I didn't fancy becoming a cleaner or a carer.

[Thedelldays]

Apart from the charts stuff and Back to the Future - 2010

 

Back to the future is out at the pictures again in parts of the country

[Verbal]

How edifying was the spectacle of Tory backbenchers cheering manically at the prospect of 500,000 people being sacked. I give the Lib Dems six months before they lose the stomach for being in any way associated with such obnoxious cretins - assuming Lib Dems have a conscience. (About which I am no longer certain, after Clegg's intemperate - and guilt-ridden? - assault on the respected IFS.)

[Verbal]

How edifying was the spectacle of Tory backbenchers cheering manically at the prospect of 500,000 people being sacked. I give the Lib Dems six months before they lose the stomach for being in any way associated with such obnoxious cretins - assuming Lib Dems have a conscience. (About which I am no longer certain, after Clegg's intemperate - and guilt-ridden? - assault on the respected IFS.)

[franny]

Another consideration here is that we are talking of 10% of jobs to be lost over 4 years, 2.5% per annum. With natural wastage of around 8% pa it will not be very difficult without redundancies if managed properly. Hands up all those who have worked in the private sector and seen 10% cuts imposed in a matter of weeks ? Also heard the union complaining about the impact on pensions - as someome who has lost pension through the antics of Mr Brown I do not have a lot of sympathy. These guys need to wake up and smell the coffee that the private sector have had to endure for the last nn years.

[franny]

Another consideration here is that we are talking of 10% of jobs to be lost over 4 years, 2.5% per annum. With natural wastage of around 8% pa it will not be very difficult without redundancies if managed properly. Hands up all those who have worked in the private sector and seen 10% cuts imposed in a matter of weeks ? Also heard the union complaining about the impact on pensions - as someome who has lost pension through the antics of Mr Brown I do not have a lot of sympathy. These guys need to wake up and smell the coffee that the private sector have had to endure for the last nn years.

[Whitey Grandad]

Another consideration here is that we are talking of 10% of jobs to be lost over 4 years, 2.5% per annum. With natural wastage of around 8% pa it will not be very difficult without redundancies if managed properly. Hands up all those who have worked in the private sector and seen 10% cuts imposed in a matter of weeks ? Also heard the union complaining about the impact on pensions - as someome who has lost pension through the antics of Mr Brown I do not have a lot of sympathy. These guys need to wake up and smell the coffee that the private sector have had to endure for the last nn years.

Over here! You're right about pensions too. Brown stole £5bn a year from private pensions.

[Fuengirola Saint]

How edifying was the spectacle of Tory backbenchers cheering manically at the prospect of 500,000 people being sacked. I give the Lib Dems six months before they lose the stomach for being in any way associated with such obnoxious cretins - assuming Lib Dems have a conscience. (About which I am no longer certain, after Clegg's intemperate - and guilt-ridden? - assault on the respected IFS.)

 

This!

[trousers]

How edifying was the spectacle of Tory backbenchers cheering manically at the prospect of 500,000 people being sacked.

 

I thought they were cheering George Osborne for tackling the debt head on. Why would they be cheering a perfectly reasonable job attrition rate over 4 years?

[trousers]

Another consideration here is that we are talking of 10% of jobs to be lost over 4 years, 2.5% per annum. With natural wastage of around 8% pa it will not be very difficult without redundancies if managed properly. Hands up all those who have worked in the private sector and seen 10% cuts imposed in a matter of weeks ? Also heard the union complaining about the impact on pensions - as someome who has lost pension through the antics of Mr Brown I do not have a lot of sympathy. These guys need to wake up and smell the coffee that the private sector have had to endure for the last nn years.

 

This!

[rocknrollman no2]

I thought they were cheering George Osborne for tackling the debt head on. Why would they be cheering a perfectly reasonable job attrition rate over 4 years?

 

So the million jobs that the condem government are losing will be taken up by the private sector?

Dont think so.

In the real world there will be a lot more people on the dole because of this government,than there was before.

[Gemmel]

So the million jobs that the condem government are losing will be taken up by the private sector?

Dont think so.

In the real world there will be a lot more people on the dole because of this government,than there was before.

 

rockandrollman were you down the alfred telling everybody that 6 players had to pull fonte off of pardew?

 

What was that about the real world???

[rocknrollman no2]

rockandrollman were you down the alfred telling everybody that 6 players had to pull fonte off of pardew?

 

What was that about the real world???

 

I do drink in the Alfred sometimes,but i have not said anything like that.Like most people i dont know the reason why Pardew left and to be honest,i think thats old news now.

If you see me come and say hello.Its always nice to put a face to a name.

[Verbal]

I thought they were cheering George Osborne for tackling the debt head on. Why would they be cheering a perfectly reasonable job attrition rate over 4 years?

 

No, sadly not. They were specifically cheering the job losses. They loved it - and its been the subject of a huge amount of comment in the press.

[dune]

I was reading an article in todays Daily Mail (now that i've got a few shares i've switched from the Express) which correctly questions the BBC's impartiality. Directly after the spending review they have a question time in Middlesbrough, next time it's in Glasgow, and then in Sheffield. The Marxists within the BBC are clearly doing this deliberately so that the Conservatives get a rough ride.

[badgerx16]

The Marxists within the BBC are clearly doing this deliberately so that the Conservatives get a rough ride.

Good !

[dune]

Good !

 

Which is precisely my reaction to the public sector job cuts. The debt mountain and the deficit are unfortunate, but have presented the Tories with a once in a generation opportunity to really hammer the Socialist system. Only so much can be done in 5 years, but if we can get a majority Conservative govt next time I think the public sector can be pacified once and for all.

[st alex]

I got made redundant from my last job 2 years ago. After having been 6 months on JSA, I was told because I'd been on it for 6 months and had savings of over £x000 I was no longer entitled to it and no longer classed as unemployed

 

Any kind of benefits really need to be distributed fairly, and to me it doesn't really seem fair to penalise someone who has senseably been saving but for whatever reason is out of work. If you had spent or invested those savings in say a new tv, a new car and lot more booze and drugs, then you'd have been better off.

 

I definately think there should be benefits available but, they should either be universal or just for those who genuinley need them. Why should you have to live off live savings until your account is dry, while a f*ckwit in the next street can live off benefits having never had a job and who chose not to go to college (for free) or get any proper training.

 

The way that benefits are distributed needs to be looked at, they shouldn't just be ruthlessly axed. Although the Tory's have already f*cked up as the media pointed out with child benefit, quite simply it should be based on either one parent earning over 45k or both earning something like 70k. Otherwise you get parents earning 80k (40k +40k) between them claiming benefits while other parents earning 60k (45k + 15k) aren't eligable.

[st alex]

I was reading an article in todays Daily Mail (now that i've got a few shares i've switched from the Express) which correctly questions the BBC's impartiality. Directly after the spending review they have a question time in Middlesbrough, next time it's in Glasgow, and then in Sheffield. The Marxists within the BBC are clearly doing this deliberately so that the Conservatives get a rough ride.

 

And if Labour were in power where would they do it then? Knightsbridge and Kensington so that the rich can pointout at how they're suffering?

 

No they'd do it in the same places.

[aintforever]

The BBC definitely have a left wing bias, that is pretty obvious. I suppose in this case they are directly effected by government cuts so are bound to be against them.

[rocknrollman no2]

The BBC definitely have a left wing bias, that is pretty obvious. I suppose in this case they are directly effected by government cuts so are bound to be against them.

 

The BBC did a survey before the last general election and all the Labour voters thought they were biased towards the Tories and the Tory voters thought they were biased towards Labour.

I dont know what the Lib Dems thought,they probably just agreed with everyone.

So i guess you cant please everyone all the time.

[bridge too far]

So - the coalition is doing an about-turn on tuition fees by now capping them and, in addition, and in spite of promises that funding for the pupil premium would not result in cuts to the education budget, they've been telling stories on that one too!

 

Even the Dems have been Conned this time.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11615216

[Verbal]

The BBC definitely have a left wing bias, that is pretty obvious. I suppose in this case they are directly effected by government cuts so are bound to be against them.

 

Have you got the slightest piece of evidence that this is true? As someone who's worked inside the BBC many times, I just don't see it. Accusations like this tend to be the product of an over-fertile conspiratorial mindset.

[Verbal]

So - the coalition is doing an about-turn on tuition fees by now capping them and, in addition, and in spite of promises that funding for the pupil premium would not result in cuts to the education budget, they've been telling stories on that one too!

 

Even the Dems have been Conned this time.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11615216

 

The likely effect of the coalition's attitude to universities is that they will happily make the 40% cuts in the teaching budget (already announced in the CSR - and that is on top of £1bn cuts already made in university budgets), but then blink when it comes to approving the fees increase for students. This will leave even the best universities struggling badly. All at a time when our competitors are actually increasing investment in their university systems, to emerge stronger from the slump.

 

If anyone is in any doubt about the impending damage, just look up the Nobel winners from Manchester, what they won it for, the huge future benefits their discovery entails, and how they have said clearly that they wouldn't have been able to do it in the present climate (and may not even have been allowed to be here to do it!).

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

which is precisely my reaction to the public sector job cuts. The debt mountain and the deficit are unfortunate, but have presented the tories with a once in a generation opportunity to really hammer the socialist system. Only so much can be done in 5 years, but if we can get a majority conservative govt next time i think the public sector can be pacified once and for all.

 

Boring.

 

Anyway I really should get back to enjoying my week off paid for by you mugs.

 

Ciao.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

The BBC definitely have a left wing bias, that is pretty obvious. I suppose in this case they are directly effected by government cuts so are bound to be against them.

 

Any evidence for this ridiculous sweeping statement?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Another consideration here is that we are talking of 10% of jobs to be lost over 4 years, 2.5% per annum. With natural wastage of around 8% pa it will not be very difficult without redundancies if managed properly. Hands up all those who have worked in the private sector and seen 10% cuts imposed in a matter of weeks ? Also heard the union complaining about the impact on pensions - as someome who has lost pension through the antics of Mr Brown I do not have a lot of sympathy. These guys need to wake up and smell the coffee that the private sector have had to endure for the last nn years.

 

Then you should have worked in the public sector! Jesus! I weighed up which sector had the most benefits and took a job in it. I used my head when choosing a career. Maybe you should have done the same?

[bridge too far]

The likely effect of the coalition's attitude to universities is that they will happily make the 40% cuts in the teaching budget (already announced in the CSR - and that is on top of £1bn cuts already made in university budgets), but then blink when it comes to approving the fees increase for students. This will leave even the best universities struggling badly. All at a time when our competitors are actually increasing investment in their university systems, to emerge stronger from the slump.

 

If anyone is in any doubt about the impending damage, just look up the Nobel winners from Manchester, what they won it for, the huge future benefits their discovery entails, and how they have said clearly that they wouldn't have been able to do it in the present climate (and may not even have been allowed to be here to do it!).

 

TLS - I don't know anything about university funding. I was hoping to highlight that, bit by bit, this government is going back on all its big plans. They seem to be bowing to the slightest bit of pressure / telling fibs.

 

Crikey - they'll even be adopting Labour's spending / cuts plans next