The Spending Review (tackling the Socialists debt mountain)

[Seaford Saint]

Don't forget that unemployed prople in the states who give up looking for jobs become "ecoomically unviable" I can't recall the euphamism....anyway the true unemployment figure may well be closer to 13% or around 1 in 6 people.

[Seaford Saint]

If Greece defaults then so will Ireland and if that happens we are f**ked.

 

US debt increases by $40,000 per second.

 

China is sitting back and just waiting whilst buying up all the US debt.

 

Not sure China is buying all US debt.......China is not sitting back either - agreed about the US debt......if it was not for record low interest rates the US would be bankrupt now.....I forrget how an interest rate of 4% would add to their debt servicing. They'd be like Greece

[the stain]

Forgive dune if he hasn't got it quite right. One of the intellectual sources he uses for all of his informed opinions announced yesterday that it won't be available again after this week.

[Seaford Saint]

If Greece defaults then so will Ireland and if that happens we are f**ked.

 

US debt increases by $40,000 per second.

 

China is sitting back and just waiting whilst buying up all the US debt.

 

I am not sure who owns the debt......whether all debt is equal....odious debt is an expression I have read about where a country cannot be responsible for it if for example a dictator took out th eloans...the US used this concept rightly in my view to get countries to cancel debt to Iraq after the invasion of Iraq. There is a good case for the same to be offered to the PIIGS as they are called.

[dune]

If Greece defaults then so will Ireland and if that happens we are f**ked.

 

US debt increases by $40,000 per second.

 

China is sitting back and just waiting whilst buying up all the US debt.

 

The thing is China needs us big time.

 

Their Premier has already hinted that he's willing to help out Greece for the simple reason they cannot afford for them to go pop.

 

I wouldn't worry about the PIGS.

[Seaford Saint]

Forgive dune if he hasn't got it quite right. One of the intellectual sources he uses for all of his informed opinions announced yesterday that it won't be available again after this week.

 

I forgive Dune, I just can't work out if he is brighter than all of us and is playing with us and laughing in front of his screen.

[Seaford Saint]

The thing is China needs us big time.

 

Their Premier has already hinted that he's willing to help out Greece for the simple reason they cannot afford for them to go pop.

 

I wouldn't worry about the PIGS.

 

China has us or has that fact passsed you by? We have pretty much stopped making things. Buying vast amounts of land and other assets all round the world, securing a supply of raw materials. China is investing in the US and buying US firms too. I am not sure there is a way back for us.....Peston did a good analysis of the post 2008 world. Its worth a read.

[dune]

I forgive Dune, I just can't work out if he is brighter than all of us and is playing with us and laughing in front of his screen.

 

I'm giving my opinion and over the next 3 months you'll see if im right or not.

 

Like i've said China can't afford another recession in the west and they're already making moves...

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-is-bailout-out-greece-2010-6

[Seaford Saint]

I'm giving my opinion and over the next 3 months you'll see if im right or not.

 

Like i've said China can't afford another recession in the west and they're already making moves...

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-is-bailout-out-greece-2010-6

 

The big hope for the West is for China to expand and import goods from us like BMW Rolls Royce etc.....trouble is there isn't much that the Chinese really want from us. As Peston said, China should stop making goods for us and to make goods for themselves.

 

China will buy Greek assets not issue debt....the fact we overlook is that the Greeks should not have borrowed the money or another view would be that the banks should not have lent the Greeks the money.

 

Aren't we about to shut down our last train building capability? 1400 jobs gone forever.

[View From The Top]

I wouldn't worry about the PIGS.

 

I would suggest that the poster on here that works for Bank of NY and whose job it is to know these things is better placed than you to dish out advice.

[View From The Top]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/08/jobs-report-unemployment-rate_n_893059.html?ir=UK

[Verbal]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/08/jobs-report-unemployment-rate_n_893059.html?ir=UK

 

I think you've misunderstood something. Dune is that most reliable of barometers. When he says something is getting better, actually it's going to be far worse - or vice versa. He's precisely and diametrically wrong so consistently that he provides a useful service. Tell your financial advisor about him - he or she will make (you) a fortune.

[badgerx16]

I forgive Dune, I just can't work out if he is brighter than all of us and is playing with us and laughing in front of his screen.

He is only brighter than us if we ( collectively ) amount to a 15 watt bulb.

[trousers]

If there's one thing Dune is very good at it's getting a reaction

[CB Saint]

To be fair to dune, there are signs of improvement. I am in recruitment and we have just had our record quarter and this quarter already looks like it will be even better.

[dune]

To be fair to dune, there are signs of improvement. I am in recruitment and we have just had our record quarter and this quarter already looks like it will be even better.

 

Precisely. My company is investing heavily and recruiting again. I was listening to an economist of Radio 4 he was saying that we are on the verge of a glut of good news.

 

Of course the Socialists won't like this, but it's my view that the cutbacks in the public sectors around the world have prepared the ground for good times in the future.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Precisely. My company is investing heavily and recruiting again. I was listening to an economist of Radio 4 he was saying that we are on the verge of a glut of good news.

 

Of course the Socialists won't like this, but it's my view that the cutbacks in the public sectors around the world have prepared the ground for good times in the future.

 

The private sector won't learn anything from this and in 10-20 years time the same thing will happen again. Private companies will beomce complacent and carelss and the public sector after recovering from the hideous, apparently 'necessary' cuts that have taken place to support the private sector's recovery, will be blamed once again.

[dune]

The private sector won't learn anything from this and in 10-20 years time the same thing will happen again. Private companies will beomce complacent and carelss and the public sector after recovering from the hideous, apparently 'necessary' cuts that have taken place to support the private sector's recovery, will be blamed once again.

 

I'm all for a lean public sector, but even you must admit that under Labour it became too bloated with non jobs.

[Seaford Saint]

Bombardier UK has today (5 July) announced over 1000 redundancies, which will include both permanent and agency staff at its train manufacturing site in Derby. The cuts are a direct result of the coalition government's decision, made on 16 June to award a contract to build 1,200 new carriages for the Thameslink route to a consortium led by Siemens,

 

These will be non jobs shortly, I hope you right wingers on here feel proud

[Wade Garrett]

Bombardier UK has today (5 July) announced over 1000 redundancies, which will include both permanent and agency staff at its train manufacturing site in Derby. The cuts are a direct result of the coalition government's decision, made on 16 June to award a contract to build 1,200 new carriages for the Thameslink route to a consortium led by Siemens,

 

These will be non jobs shortly, I hope you right wingers on here feel proud

 

It is inconceivable that Germany or France would export contracts like this. Then again, Thatcher did it for whole industries(shipbuilding, coal) if they had unions she didn't like.

[Sheaf Saint]

Bombardier UK has today (5 July) announced over 1000 redundancies, which will include both permanent and agency staff at its train manufacturing site in Derby. The cuts are a direct result of the coalition government's decision, made on 16 June to award a contract to build 1,200 new carriages for the Thameslink route to a consortium led by Siemens,

 

These will be non jobs shortly, I hope you right wingers on here feel proud

 

Not quite sure what the right wingers on this board will have to feel proud about. The previous Labour government laid out the criteria for tender for this project before the Tories took over, and the government had no choice but to award the contract to Siemens based on that criteria.

[Thedelldays]

Bombardier UK has today (5 July) announced over 1000 redundancies, which will include both permanent and agency staff at its train manufacturing site in Derby. The cuts are a direct result of the coalition government's decision, made on 16 June to award a contract to build 1,200 new carriages for the Thameslink route to a consortium led by Siemens,

 

These will be non jobs shortly, I hope you right wingers on here feel proud

 

oh behave...it is a kick in the teeth but even the lovable labour were at it...huge parts of the contracts to build the new aircraft carriers were awarded to french companies..at the dismay of the UK ship building industry....

[Seaford Saint]

Our Tory Lib Dem team could stop it from happening....couldn't they? We have a political system that in many ways resembles a one party state. I am saddened and bewildered that no political capital is being made out of this.

 

a non job is a job that can be done cheaper by some one else.

[Thedelldays]

Our Tory Lib Dem team could stop it from happening....couldn't they? We have a political system that in many ways resembles a one party state. I am saddened and bewildered that no political capital is being made out of this.

 

a non job is a job that can be done cheaper by some one else.

how can a party that were worse score points on this issue...?

[Seaford Saint]

I could ask you how it could be possible that there are few if any dissenting voices.....surely somebody should be oofended by a country losing its last train carriage building capability......at the expense of the Germans

[Thedelldays]

I could ask you how it could be possible that there are few if any dissenting voices.....surely somebody should be oofended by a country losing its last train carriage building capability......at the expense of the Germans

 

I totally agree..but where was your outrage 5 years ago...?

[Seaford Saint]

err outrage about what?

[View From The Top]

err outrage about what?

 

About ships that are being built in Scotland. Apparently we should be upset by that.

[Sheaf Saint]

I could ask you how it could be possible that there are few if any dissenting voices.....surely somebody should be oofended by a country losing its last train carriage building capability......at the expense of the Germans

 

It's not our last train building capability. Bombardier has a contract to provide some 1300 new trains and carriages for the London Underground.

[View From The Top]

It is inconceivable that Germany or France would export contracts like this. Then again, Thatcher did it for whole industries(shipbuilding, coal) if they had unions she didn't like.

 

The problem is, IMHO, is that we play by the rules with tenders etc whilst the rest, rightly, don't.

 

Another major slice of manufacturing thrown away but a government that has, apparently, avowed to re-balance the economy and put manufacturing at its heart.

[View From The Top]

It's not our last train building capability. Bombardier has a contract to provide some 1300 new trains and carriages for the London Underground.

 

Nothing on the order book afterwards though.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Bombardier UK has today (5 July) announced over 1000 redundancies, which will include both permanent and agency staff at its train manufacturing site in Derby. The cuts are a direct result of the coalition government's decision, made on 16 June to award a contract to build 1,200 new carriages for the Thameslink route to a consortium led by Siemens,

 

These will be non jobs shortly, I hope you right wingers on here feel proud

 

Absolutely despicable. This should be a major political issue but nothing has been said. The Government should be deeply embarrassed. Forget all this trivia about whether Cameron and Coulson this really affects peoples lives.

[rocknrollman no2]

Absolutely despicable. This should be a major political issue but nothing has been said. The Government should be deeply embarrassed. Forget all this trivia about whether Cameron and Coulson this really affects peoples lives.

A very good point.

Surely keeping all of these people off the dole would work out cheaper for the country in the long run?

[bridge too far]

The problem is, IMHO, is that we play by the rules with tenders etc whilst the rest, rightly, don't.

 

Another major slice of manufacturing thrown away but a government that has, apparently, avowed to re-balance the economy and put manufacturing at its heart.

 

But there are ways and means that could have been used when judging the tenders. Value for Money could have, for instance, taken into account the financial and human cost of throwing that number of people on the scrapheap. Environmental considerations could have been thrown into the mix. All these things could have been written into the criteria upon which each bid would have been judged.

 

But, it seems, the bottom line in terms of pounds and pence to deliver the trains is all that was considered. Bad procurement IMO

[View From The Top]

But there are ways and means that could have been used when judging the tenders. Value for Money could have, for instance, taken into account the financial and human cost of throwing that number of people on the scrapheap. Environmental considerations could have been thrown into the mix. All these things could have been written into the criteria upon which each bid would have been judged.

 

But, it seems, the bottom line in terms of pounds and pence to deliver the trains is all that was considered. Bad procurement IMO

 

Which is why the mainlanders give their home nations their orders and our dumb as f**k idiots, of all shades, don't.

[Sheaf Saint]

But there are ways and means that could have been used when judging the tenders. Value for Money could have, for instance, taken into account the financial and human cost of throwing that number of people on the scrapheap. Environmental considerations could have been thrown into the mix. All these things could have been written into the criteria upon which each bid would have been judged.

 

But, it seems, the bottom line in terms of pounds and pence to deliver the trains is all that was considered. Bad procurement IMO

 

But as I mentioned earlier, this is not the fault of the current government. The previous Labour administration initiated the procurement procedure for these trains and laid out the criteria for selecting the winning bid. I'm no fan of the ConDems, but if they had ridden roughshod over that and just picked the Bombardier tender because they are UK based, then it would only have resulted in long and costly legal proceedings brought by the other bidders.

[View From The Top]

But as I mentioned earlier, this is not the fault of the current government. The previous Labour administration initiated the procurement procedure for these trains and laid out the criteria for selecting the winning bid. I'm no fan of the ConDems, but if they had ridden roughshod over that and just picked the Bombardier tender because they are UK based, then it would only have resulted in long and costly legal proceedings brought by the other bidders.

 

Rubbish. There are more than enough clauses in the EU directive to make sure than politicians, of any shade, could have ensured it won the bid.

 

We should play by the same dirty rules as the rest of Europe.

[Wade Garrett]

The problem is, IMHO, is that we play by the rules with tenders etc whilst the rest, rightly, don't.

 

Another major slice of manufacturing thrown away but a government that has, apparently, avowed to re-balance the economy and put manufacturing at its heart.

 

That's a no-brainer. We cannot rely on service industries (especially financial), as we have done in the last 25-30 years.

[Wade Garrett]

But as I mentioned earlier, this is not the fault of the current government. The previous Labour administration initiated the procurement procedure for these trains and laid out the criteria for selecting the winning bid. I'm no fan of the ConDems, but if they had ridden roughshod over that and just picked the Bombardier tender because they are UK based, then it would only have resulted in long and costly legal proceedings brought by the other bidders.

 

 

They had the option of changing the process. New Government, new rules.

 

This reflects poorly on both the previous and present administrations.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Rubbish. There are more than enough clauses in the EU directive to make sure than politicians, of any shade, could have ensured it won the bid.

 

We should play by the same dirty rules as the rest of Europe.

 

I agree about playing by the same dirty rules but I think that the EU clauses would have been water tight or they would not have done it. For me though it still represents pure cowardice on

Cameron's behalf. They thought it would have slipped under the radar. I hope they march and expose the folly of the decision. Sadly it will be left to the oddballs of the UK Independance party.

[bridge too far]

But as I mentioned earlier, this is not the fault of the current government. The previous Labour administration initiated the procurement procedure for these trains and laid out the criteria for selecting the winning bid. I'm no fan of the ConDems, but if they had ridden roughshod over that and just picked the Bombardier tender because they are UK based, then it would only have resulted in long and costly legal proceedings brought by the other bidders.

 

Yes, you're absolutely right - they would have been in the ordure if that had been their SOLE reason for selecting Bombadier. But, as I said earlier, the tender package could have been written in such a way as to include, in the level playing field, costs for unemployment, environmental issues etc. etc.

 

I don't know anything about this particular contract - I'm just talking in generalities. But if what you're saying is true about the ConDems ignored the work done under the previous administration, then that is poor.

[Sheaf Saint]

Yes, you're absolutely right - they would have been in the ordure if that had been their SOLE reason for selecting Bombadier. But, as I said earlier, the tender package could have been written in such a way as to include, in the level playing field, costs for unemployment, environmental issues etc. etc.

 

I don't know anything about this particular contract - I'm just talking in generalities. But if what you're saying is true about the ConDems ignored the work done under the previous administration, then that is poor.

 

I'm only basing this on what Vince Cable said in a news interview about it the other day. Of course, it could be a load of horlicks and they are just using the age-old 'blame the previous government' trick to cover up their own shortcomings. It really is impossible to tell, but it is true that Labour were still in power when the contract was put out to tender, so there could be some truth in it.

[bridge too far]

I'm only basing this on what Vince Cable said in a news interview about it the other day. Of course, it could be a load of horlicks and they are just using the age-old 'blame the previous government' trick to cover up their own shortcomings. It really is impossible to tell, but it is true that Labour were still in power when the contract was put out to tender, so there could be some truth in it.

 

Whilst time is of an essence in contracts like this, there's nothing to stop anyone letting a contract from withdrawing the EU advert and then resubmitting it with new award criteria. This happens all the time because of changes to specifications etc. Sure, it costs a bit, particularly if the bid process has been going for some time.

[dune]

I'm as disgusted about Bombardier not getting the contract as the Conservative leader of derby city council. France and Germany employ their own people so we can too. The government have no excuse on this one.

[bridge too far]

I'm as disgusted about Bombardier not getting the contract as the Conservative leader of derby city council. France and Germany employ their own people so we can too. The government have no excuse on this one.

 

You're the Conservative leader of Derby City Council?

[dune]

You're the Conservative leader of Derby City Council?

 

I'm "as" disgusted as the Conservative leader of Derby City council.

 

I think you're getting a bit scatty in your old age.

[bridge too far]

I'm "as" disgusted as the Conservative leader of Derby City council.

 

I think you're getting a bit scatty in your old age.

 

 

For the sake of clarity you should have written that first time around, including the capitalisation of Derby, City and Council.

[dune]

For the sake of clarity you should have written that first time around, including the capitalisation of Derby, City and Council.

 

Don't you go all Polly Toynbee on me granny.

[bridge too far]

Don't you go all Polly Toynbee on me granny.

 

I wasn't aware that correcting bad grammar makes me a 'Polly Toynbee'. However, I'm proud to be linked with that great journalist, even if by default.

[Verbal]

To be fair to dune, there are signs of improvement. I am in recruitment and we have just had our record quarter and this quarter already looks like it will be even better.

 

One swallow doesn't make a summer. A more representative barometer is to be found here.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/8627794/High-Street-rocked-by-huge-rise-in-profit-warnings.html