The Spending Review (tackling the Socialists debt mountain)

[CB Saint]

As a case study let's look at British Gas, British Telecom, British Rail, British Airways - the list is endless of former public companies that were privatised and are now, frankly, pure ****. I'm not suggesting that they were 'amazing' when under government control, but if you have shareholders and the like, it's THEIR interests you have to serve by nature, not that of the customer.

 

Is British Rail really worse now than it was when it was nationalised? True the cost of rail, especially at peak times, is quite franklyu scandalous, but the trains are newer, more comfortable, quieter and cleaner and on time more often than when they BR.

[badgerx16]

I thought the visual display of the data was easy to follow. Perhaps the article should have named the source of the information.

 

However, this Wiki article gives broadly the same level / percentages although for two / three years earlier and attributes its information to the OECD and the WHO

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita

 

Bridge, you can't go quoting Wiki on here. It's a well known source of Socialist / Marxist lies and propaganda. Now first thing tomorrow morning you must go out and buy the Daily Mail, so that you can understand the concept of unbiased reportage.

[View From The Top]

Bridge, you can't go quoting Wiki on here. It's a well known source of Socialist / Marxist lies and propaganda. Now first thing tomorrow morning you must go out and buy the Daily Mail, so that you can understand the concept of unbiased reportage.

 

Would that be the Daily Mail that support fascism in the 1930s, gave money to the Black Shirts, admired Hitler and is so avidly read by our pet Nazi Stanley?

[dune]

Would that be the Daily Mail that support fascism in the 1930s, gave money to the Black Shirts, admired Hitler and is so avidly read by our pet Nazi Stanley?

 

Removed. Don't do it again.

Edited 21 November, 2010 by dune

[pedg]

Now first thing tomorrow morning you must go out and buy the Daily Mail, so that you can understand the concept of unbiased reportage.

 

[dune]

Tuition fee militants to picket school gates

 

Students have joined forces with French communists to picket England's secondary schools urging pupils as young as 15 to walk out over university tuition fees.

 

Supporters of using 'legitimate force' to try to stop the rise in fees have been joined by members of the International Communist Current (ICC) to mobilise school children.

Activists want to leaflet schools across the country in the latest day of action, planned for Wednesday.

 

Police fear a repeat of the violence seen at the first mass protest on November 10 when 2,000 people stormed the Millbank Tower in London where the Tory Party has offices.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-and-banking/student-finance/article.html?in_article_id=518644&in_page_id=52&ito=1565

[solentstars]

Would that be the Daily Mail that support fascism in the 1930s, gave money to the Black Shirts, admired Hitler and is so avidly read by our pet Nazi Stanley?

 

yes the same paper and still putting down our country with their negative "i,m the victim "readers

[trousers]

Just been made aware of this website:

http://anticuts.org.uk/?page_id=152

 

If only some of these people channelled all this effort into boosting the UK economy that moaning about it we wouldn't have a problem.

 

Where do people get so much time to organise all these protests?

 

I haven't got enough time to wipe my arse some days.

 

FFS

[tony13579]

Where are we pouring money down the gullets of the public sector?I know a lot of people who work in the public sector from the justice system to council workers and everyone of them has had to endure a pay freeze and worse working conditions.Most are very worried about their jobs.

As for the "Poor bloody workers",what do you think nurses,polce,binmen,streetcleaners are?

 

Labour built loads of new hospitals in our region and drop in centres and Nhs direct. Lymington. Fareham community hospital. Millbrook community hospital. 2 huge new blocks at the general. Rebuild of the QA. The same is happening with the schools. Rather than maintain the buildings we have they are building loads of new ones. Then there are police grand projects. Winchester,Southampton and Eastleigh ( now scrapped) but they haven't closed any sites to my knowledge.

If a scheme is too grand they fund it with lottery or euro money which also comes from our pockets. The schemes are so large that they are forced to offer it on international tender so some foreign firm wins the bid and all the cash leaves the Uk

We are doomed!

[bridge too far]

Labour built loads of new hospitals in our region and drop in centres and Nhs direct. Lymington. Fareham community hospital. Millbrook community hospital. 2 huge new blocks at the general. Rebuild of the QA. The same is happening with the schools. Rather than maintain the buildings we have they are building loads of new ones. Then there are police grand projects. Winchester,Southampton and Eastleigh ( now scrapped) but they haven't closed any sites to my knowledge.

If a scheme is too grand they fund it with lottery or euro money which also comes from our pockets. The schemes are so large that they are forced to offer it on international tender so some foreign firm wins the bid and all the cash leaves the Uk

We are doomed!

 

Shows just how much you know and understand about health treatment.

 

The reasons new hospitals have been built are many. For example, it is more cost efficient to have doctors particularly, but staff generally, across one site rather than many for acute medicine. It's very difficult to provide safe consultant-led cover over many sites when doctors can only work 48 hours a week. Significant advances in technology require expensive machinery that is too expensive to provide in lots of hospitals and that requires specific building requirements (e.g. RF screening for MRI scanners).

 

Also, as advances result in more and more day surgery, long-stay wards are not needed as much as they were. More step-down and chronic, rather than acute, care is needed, and this is best provided in community hospitals that are cheaper to run than large acute hospitals.

 

Finally, it is usually cheaper to build a new facility than to maintain old, sometimes Victorian buildings, to the standards required for safe delivery of treatment. Every new hospital build project will be required to demonstrate this via a Business Case. Usually, old sites ARE sold off (in Oxford, the old listed Radcliffe Infirmary has been sold to the University) but, with the current downfall in land prices, this might not happen immediately.

 

Yes, the projects do have to be offered for tender to Europe - that's the law. However, every project I've worked on has been won by a British consortium and the smaller, community hospitals and drop-in centres are usually built by smaller UK construction companies. The UK wins many contracts to build hospitals abroad - I know of one such project in Italy.

[badgerx16]

Let's see how 'fair' and equal the cuts are likely to be :

 

( The source document is in the public domain http://www.collective-responsibility.net/images/uploads/files/MiddlesbroughCouncilStrategicResources.doc )

 

Edit, can't get the data formatted correctly on here so read the link, suffice to say Surrey loses far less per capita than Teesside.

Edited 25 November, 2010 by badgerx16

[franny]

Let's see how 'fair' and equal the cuts are likely to be :

 

( The source document is in the public domain http://www.collective-responsibility.net/images/uploads/files/MiddlesbroughCouncilStrategicResources.doc )

 

Edit, can't get the data formatted correctly on here so read the link, suffice to say Surrey loses far less per capita than Teesside.

 

I dont know the figures the reduction is against but maybe this reduction for M'boro is righting a wrong. I seem to recall many southern counties/councils complaining over the last 13 years that their support from central government was reducing at the same time money was being channeled at an increased rate to northern Labour strongholds. I am sure somebody who knows where to look can chart this over the last nn years.

[dune]

Expert: Britain Will Survive Thanks To The People Who Voted Conservative

 

THE money guru who predicted the Irish slump says Britain will escape the economic crisis sweeping Europe.

Professor John Fitzgerald said Chancellor George Osborne had acted "just in time" with his spending cuts to save the UK.

 

 

He told Sun City yesterday: "The urgency in tackling the fiscal problems helped confidence. If people had lost faith in the UK you'd have gone back to 1976." (When the Government went cap in hand to the IMF.)

 

 

And the expert - slammed as the "Grinch who stole Christmas" in 2005 when he predicted a huge Irish property crash - insisted Spain should also escape the debt crisis. But he warned it was partly down to the fact the EU could simply not allow the crisis to reach that far - given Spain's critical importance.

 

 

He said governments across Europe had to set up a huge fund to show markets there was no way Spain's debt-ridden banks would collapse.

 

 

He said: "Everybody needs to stop the rot on this one. If it has ramifications for Spain, it has ramifications for Germany and the rest of the world. The real Spanish economy should come out of this reasonably OK."

 

 

His prediction came as Portugal and Spain's borrowing costs continued to rise. But it tallied with a Reuters poll of economists, which revealed only four out of 50 think Spain will need a bailout.

 

 

The Economic and Social Research Institute expert - son of ex-Irish Prime Minister Garret Fitzgerald - reckoned Ireland would remain in the euro, saying: "Do you really think someone would accept an Irish Pound at the moment?" He addded: "It's in everybody's interest that the euro survives as it is.

 

 

"You could say that Germany may like to leave, but it would bring the thing down like a house of cards."

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/3244697/Money-expert-John-Fitzgerald-says-Britain-will-survive-debt-crisis.html

 

So thank god we got rid of the dreadful Labour Party when we did or we would now be in the queue to go cap in hand to the IMF just like we did after the Labour government did it's usual trick of taxing and spending in the 1970's. If Labour had got back in in May we'd have dithered with the cuts and bowed to the Unions and Britain would now be on the brink of disaster. The rabid Left on here will never admit that the Conservatives have made the right decisions, but it's crystal now that the nasty Conservatives have saved this country and given us a fighting chance to gradually dig ourselves out of the hole that the foolish bankers and the incompetant Labour party put us in.

[scotty]

Expert: Britain Will Survive Thanks To The People Who Voted Conservative

 

THE money guru who predicted the Irish slump says Britain will escape the economic crisis sweeping Europe.

Professor John Fitzgerald said Chancellor George Osborne had acted "just in time" with his spending cuts to save the UK.

 

 

He told Sun City yesterday: "The urgency in tackling the fiscal problems helped confidence. If people had lost faith in the UK you'd have gone back to 1976." (When the Government went cap in hand to the IMF.)

 

 

And the expert - slammed as the "Grinch who stole Christmas" in 2005 when he predicted a huge Irish property crash - insisted Spain should also escape the debt crisis. But he warned it was partly down to the fact the EU could simply not allow the crisis to reach that far - given Spain's critical importance.

 

 

He said governments across Europe had to set up a huge fund to show markets there was no way Spain's debt-ridden banks would collapse.

 

 

He said: "Everybody needs to stop the rot on this one. If it has ramifications for Spain, it has ramifications for Germany and the rest of the world. The real Spanish economy should come out of this reasonably OK."

 

 

His prediction came as Portugal and Spain's borrowing costs continued to rise. But it tallied with a Reuters poll of economists, which revealed only four out of 50 think Spain will need a bailout.

 

 

The Economic and Social Research Institute expert - son of ex-Irish Prime Minister Garret Fitzgerald - reckoned Ireland would remain in the euro, saying: "Do you really think someone would accept an Irish Pound at the moment?" He addded: "It's in everybody's interest that the euro survives as it is.

 

 

"You could say that Germany may like to leave, but it would bring the thing down like a house of cards."

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/money/3244697/Money-expert-John-Fitzgerald-says-Britain-will-survive-debt-crisis.html

 

So thank god we got rid of the dreadful Labour Party when we did or we would now be in the queue to go cap in hand to the IMF just like we did after the Labour government did it's usual trick of taxing and spending in the 1970's. If Labour had got back in in May we'd have dithered with the cuts and bowed to the Unions and Britain would now be on the brink of disaster. The rabid Left on here will never admit that the Conservatives have made the right decisions, but it's crystal now that the nasty Conservatives have saved this country and given us a fighting chance to gradually dig ourselves out of the hole that the foolish bankers and the incompetant Labour party put us in.

 

Personally, I think thats only half the story as far as we're concerned. The cuts here have been a positive in the eyes of the markets, but the Irish cuts have done f*ck all/made matters worse, because the markets can see they are likely to weaken the overall Irish economy. For my money our strongest card is non-membership of the eurozone, which allows our own government to take our own economic decisions in our own economic interests. No country in the eurozone can do that, and imho it trumps everything else.

[dune]

Personally, I think thats only half the story as far as we're concerned. The cuts here have been a positive in the eyes of the markets, but the Irish cuts have done f*ck all/made matters worse, because the markets can see they are likely to weaken the overall Irish economy. For my money our strongest card is non-membership of the eurozone, which allows our own government to take our own economic decisions in our own economic interests. No country in the eurozone can do that, and imho it trumps everything else.

 

You answered the first part of your question in the second part. Ireland should never have joined the Euro and we should thank our lucky stars we didn't. I'm a proud member of the UKIP.

 

 

And you'll all enjoy this. FAF.

 

 

UKIP - The Party That Says It Like It Is.

Edited 26 November, 2010 by dune

[scotty]

You answered the first part of your question in the second part. Ireland should never have joined the Euro and we should thank our lucky stars we didn't. I'm a proud member of the UKIP.

 

 

A rare point of agreement. Ireland were naive at best to ditch sterling, and we should never be bounced into doing so.

[GenevaSaint]

A rare point of agreement. Ireland were naive at best to ditch sterling, and we should never be bounced into doing so.

 

And you're naive to think they used Sterling!

[Whitey Grandad]

And you're naive to think they used Sterling!

 

They used to use.

[Whitey Grandad]

Personally, I think thats only half the story as far as we're concerned. The cuts here have been a positive in the eyes of the markets, but the Irish cuts have done f*ck all/made matters worse, because the markets can see they are likely to weaken the overall Irish economy. For my money our strongest card is non-membership of the eurozone, which allows our own government to take our own economic decisions in our own economic interests. No country in the eurozone can do that, and imho it trumps everything else.

 

And leaves us poorer when we devalue.

[Johnny Bognor]

So thank god we got rid of the dreadful Labour Party when we did or we would now be in the queue to go cap in hand to the IMF just like we did after the Labour government did it's usual trick of taxing and spending in the 1970's. If Labour had got back in in May we'd have dithered with the cuts and bowed to the Unions and Britain would now be on the brink of disaster. The rabid Left on here will never admit that the Conservatives have made the right decisions, but it's crystal now that the nasty Conservatives have saved this country and given us a fighting chance to gradually dig ourselves out of the hole that the foolish bankers and the incompetant Labour party put us in.

 

I have blamed the bankers in the past, but you could say they did us a favour. Had they not triggered the credit crunch, Labour's spending would have continued unchecked and when an eventual recession would have hit (as there is no such thing as ending boom and bust) we would have been in an even worse situation than we are now. Just a thought.........

[Fuengirola Saint]

I have blamed the bankers in the past, but you could say they did us a favour. Had they not triggered the credit crunch, Labour's spending would have continued unchecked and when an eventual recession would have hit (as there is no such thing as ending boom and bust) we would have been in an even worse situation than we are now. Just a thought.........

 

Oh yeah, really glad the bankers ****ed up millions of lives just so you could be proved right about Labour's so called profligacy.

 

I only have 3 posts so i will put forward my solution to the current crisis,

 

1. Nationalise all banks without compensation ( The ones in the Private sector can be returned there when the crisis is over ) The banking system cannot be trusted at this moment to run it’s affairs properly, and when it returns to it’s normal state it will be highly regulated.

2. Implement a Tobin tax of 0.5% of every banking transaction to raise money for a public works program to bring unemployment down and thus facilitate growth in the economy

3. Bond holders to wait for their money until after said crisis to stop the spread of panic in countries such as Portugal, Spain and Belgium, because after these countries they will search for more taxpayers money with which to enrich themselves

4. Cut by at least half the income including expenses of MEP’s.They get too much,simples

 

Just a few ideas, not sure Dune will agree though :-/

[badgerx16]

The Left on here will never admit that the Conservatives have made the right decisions, .........

 

If they did make a correct decision, I would credit them, but up to now they haven't.

[Whitey Grandad]

Is that your answer to everything, Fuengi? Increase public spending?

[GenevaSaint]

They used to use.

 

The punt was not Sterling or am I mistken? Was the punt tied in with Sterling from an exchange rate perspective?

[GenevaSaint]

If they did make a correct decision, I would credit them, but up to now they haven't.

 

Dune not all Labour supporters are as blinkered as you. You'd never credit the marxists/communists (I thought I'd save you the hassle of changing it from Labour) with ANYTHING they did, far too entrenched in your views.

 

I actually like a few of the ConDems idea about schooling that came out (others sucked), and that's from a man who has NEVER voted conservative.

[GenevaSaint]

The punt was not Sterling or am I mistken? Was the punt tied in with Sterling from an exchange rate perspective?

 

Whitey I've done my research, yes they were tied to Sterling but from '79 to '99 the punt wasn't. So I stand by my original comment, although you're correct they used to be tied to Sterling!

 

God it's a slow Friday at work

[badgerx16]

For Dune, seeing as you are such a fond fan of Maggie, and so KEEN on Europe

 

[dune]

Is that your answer to everything, Fuengi? Increase public spending?

 

Whitey it's the Socialist way. Tax Spend Borrow Bust. You just cannot believe that there are people who think this is sustainable.

[Minty]

You just cannot believe that there are people who think this is sustainable.

 

Dune, do you think Capitalism is sustainable, and if so, how?

 

(I'm not disagreeing on the first part BTW)

[dune]

Dune, do you think Capitalism is sustainable, and if so, how?

 

(I'm not disagreeing on the first part BTW)

 

Yes it is sustainable because it is the only way. Capitalism is all about survival of the fittest and therefore it has to be so.

[badgerx16]

Yes it is sustainable because it is the only way. Capitalism is all about survival of the fittest and therefore it has to be so.

A system based on primal human greed.

[dune]

A system based on primal human greed.

 

Yes. There is no other way and i'm afraid that as resources diminish only the fittest can survive. It may not fit in with your utopian dreams, but that is the reality and you either accept it and deal with it or live in ignorance.

[Minty]

Yes. There is no other way and i'm afraid that as resources diminish only the fittest can survive. It may not fit in with your utopian dreams, but that is the reality and you either accept it and deal with it or live in ignorance.

 

A situation that the 'fittest' have helped to engineer... capitalism has actively led to the depletion of those resources, be it oil or metals or wood or other natural resources.

 

And as those resources continue to deplete and the cycle continues, it brings us back to my original question: How is that sustainable?

[badgerx16]

A situation that the 'fittest' have helped to engineer... capitalism has actively led to the depletion of those resources, be it oil or metals or wood or other natural resources.

 

And as those resources continue to deplete and the cycle continues, it brings us back to my original question: How is that sustainable?

Capitalism is like a bad marriage : "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine."

[dune]

Capitalism is like a bad marriage : "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine."

 

Don't you have any grasp of history?

 

It is how it has always been and how it will always be. It is the only way it can be.

[View From The Top]

Dune not all Labour supporters are as blinkered as you. You'd never credit the marxists/communists (I thought I'd save you the hassle of changing it from Labour) with ANYTHING they did, far too entrenched in your views.

 

I actually like a few of the ConDems idea about schooling that came out (others sucked), and that's from a man who has NEVER voted conservative.

 

^^This^^

[Fuengirola Saint]

Is that your answer to everything, Fuengi? Increase public spending?

 

How would it increase public spending from todays levels? The jobs program would be paid for from the tobin tax, you cannot create growth when you cut to the bone, look at Eire

[Whitey Grandad]

How would it increase public spending from todays levels? The jobs program would be paid for from the tobin tax, you cannot create growth when you cut to the bone, look at Eire

 

All public expenditure is taken from the private sector, either now or borrowed against the future.

[Whitey Grandad]

Whitey I've done my research, yes they were tied to Sterling but from '79 to '99 the punt wasn't. So I stand by my original comment, although you're correct they used to be tied to Sterling!

 

God it's a slow Friday at work

 

Yes, the coins were also the same shape and size and it was effectively tied, much like the Barbados and East Caribbean dollars follow the US dollar.

[rocknrollman no2]

All public expenditure is taken from the private sector, either now or borrowed against the future.

 

How can that be?

I thought most public expenditure came from central government which is mainly funded from our taxes?

[franny]

How can that be?

I thought most public expenditure came from central government which is mainly funded from our taxes?

 

I assume that is a joke response..........please?

[franny]

Oh yeah, really glad the bankers ****ed up millions of lives just so you could be proved right about Labour's so called profligacy.

 

I only have 3 posts so i will put forward my solution to the current crisis,

 

1. Nationalise all banks without compensation ( The ones in the Private sector can be returned there when the crisis is over ) The banking system cannot be trusted at this moment to run it’s affairs properly, and when it returns to it’s normal state it will be highly regulated.

2. Implement a Tobin tax of 0.5% of every banking transaction to raise money for a public works program to bring unemployment down and thus facilitate growth in the economy

3. Bond holders to wait for their money until after said crisis to stop the spread of panic in countries such as Portugal, Spain and Belgium, because after these countries they will search for more taxpayers money with which to enrich themselves

4. Cut by at least half the income including expenses of MEP’s.They get too much,simples

 

Just a few ideas, not sure Dune will agree though :-/

 

If you dont pay tax here your view does not count.....do you?

[rocknrollman no2]

I assume that is a joke response..........please?

 

Seeing Thatcher sold all of the countrys assets,the main income from the government is from taxes and investments.

Why do you think that is a joke?

[Fuengirola Saint]

If you dont pay tax here your view does not count.....do you?

 

 

I have aright to join the debate i live in Europe and i'm British so do one **** face

[badgerx16]

Don't you have any grasp of history?

Yes thanks, it goes with my grasp on reality.

 

It is how it has always been and how it will always be. It is the only way it can be.

Before 1918, women could not vote. It was the way it was, and the way it had always been. ( See, an example of my grasp on history ).

[franny]

I have aright to join the debate i live in Europe and i'm British so do one **** face

 

why should tax exiles have a view on our spending that we shoudl take any notice of?

[Whitey Grandad]

How can that be?

I thought most public expenditure came from central government which is mainly funded from our taxes?

 

And where do the taxes come from?

[rocknrollman no2]

And where do the taxes come from?

 

Everyone on P A Y E.

And of course businesses.

Sorry but i still dont see the point you are making?

So as to answer the original point,taxes are not just taken from the private sector.

[Whitey Grandad]

Everyone on P A Y E.

And of course businesses.

Sorry but i still dont see the point you are making?

So as to answer the original point,taxes are not just taken from the private sector.

Everything that you have listed is in the private sector. The money that is taken in taxes from the public sector originally came from the private sector.

[rocknrollman no2]

P A Y E from the public sector workers?

How about the national insurance contributions from everyone?

How about those businesses who have taken central government grants,which is public money?

Thanks for replying Whitey Grandad,but i cant see how this is all in the private sector?