What d'you think of nigel Adkins now

[The Kraken]

One thing I would say. Last night, we hoofed it as much as we ever did under Pardew.

And were it not for Oxo, we might have been very, very pedestrian.

 

Disagree; I've said previously that we were more direct on occasions last night than in NA's first few weeks, but would absolutely refute that we hoofed it. Kelvin more than often threw it out to Harding, Fonte or Seaborne, and only sporadically did they launch it up to RL. And more than often when he was in a good position for that.

 

Going direct to Lambert is in no way a bad thing; provided it is done in tandem with a passing game, and it is done in the right areas. A Lambert flick led to the cross for one of the goals in the second half last night, and we were unfortunate not to capitalise on a few other chances. It's all about finding the right balance; if RL is going to win nmore than his fair share of headers up there then it would be madness not to capitalise on that. I think the team are starting to learn when its best to go long and when to keep in on the deck.

 

Edit: As for the pedestrian comment, I also disagree. Oxo was an absolute livewire, no doubt. But Chaplow gave us options in the middle we've not previously had and Lallana (particularly second half) was almost unplayable at times. The move in the second half where Lambert put it wide from Hammonds surge and cross was brilliant football. Also I noted in the first half where we went from Davis out to Harding via Lallana and back and into the box and culminated in a scoring chance within seconds, resulting in a corner. Fast, skillful, breaking football, and nothing to do with Oxo that time. I think your comments are unduly harsh.

Edited 3 November, 2010 by The Kraken

[Legod Third Coming]

Disagree; I've said previously that we were more direct on occasions last night than in NA's first few weeks, but would absolutely refute that we hoofed it. Kelvin more than often threw it out to Harding, Fonte or Seaborne, and only sporadically did they launch it up to RL. And more than often when he was in a good position for that.

 

Going direct to Lambert is in no way a bad thing; provided it is done in tandem with a passing game, and it is done in the right areas. A Lambert flick led to the cross for one of the goals in the second half last night, and we were unfortunate not to capitalise on a few other chances. It's all about finding the right balance; if RL is going to win nmore than his fair share of headers up there then it would be madness not to capitalise on that. I think the team are starting to learn when its best to go long and when to keep in on the deck.

 

Kelvin kicked it over 80% of the time - it was horrible. Seriously, it was not thrown out very often because I love it when it is, and it just wasn't.

I have nothing against going direct - like you - but last night there were too many balls just tossed up. When we got it down and played it between full-backs and Oxo/Lallana, THEN we look like a football team.

 

Listen, I'm not going to get upset after a 4-0 win but the manager agrees - we weren't that good. We were just better than Dagenham. You can only beat what's in front of you, for sure, but our midfield still lacks bite and we were too static when Oxo didn't have the ball.

 

Thankfully, Adkins seems to know this. But the real proof of pudding is coming up in a fortnight.

[Professor]

Its going well under Adkins, who admits there is still room for improvement and is saying quite honestly that he's working to that end. Barnard recovering from his hand injury and Lambert recovering his form are potentials for things to get better as well as Chamberlain just getting older every week. But none of this has any bearing on Pardew as we can't possibly know how we would be doing if he had stayed in post.

 

Where we would be in the league without the defeats under Wilkins in the aftermath to the sacking is a complete unknown so any comparison of Adkins and Pardew on team performance is pointless. People are entitled to feel they prefer the style or tactics of one or the other but can't call on current performance to make the case.

[The Kraken]

Kelvin kicked it over 80% of the time - it was horrible. Seriously, it was not thrown out very often because I love it when it is, and it just wasn't.

I have nothing against going direct - like you - but last night there were too many balls just tossed up. When we got it down and played it between full-backs and Oxo/Lallana, THEN we look like a football team.

 

Listen, I'm not going to get upset after a 4-0 win but the manager agrees - we weren't that good. We were just better than Dagenham. You can only beat what's in front of you, for sure, but our midfield still lacks bite and we were too static when Oxo didn't have the ball.

 

Thankfully, Adkins seems to know this. But the real proof of pudding is coming up in a fortnight.

 

we'll have to disagree about the 80% figure, as I just don't think its in any way accurate. So many times the ball was thrown out to the defenders, though as I've said I thought we were more direct than have been previously.

 

4-0 was a fair result, but ultimately didn't tell us a great deal. We should be putting teams like this away comprehensively. Like you, I still think there's work to do, Richardson was fairly poor for me and offerered no attacking threat at all, and Harding is only starting to get into forward positions as much as I'd like. But I can see vast differences between our style under Adkins as to under Pardew, particularly in working it out from the back when the time is right to do so.

[hypochondriac]

I distinctly remember him throwing it out or passing it on a number of occasions. I think 80% is rather inaccurate.

[Smirking_Saint]

Good manager, good ideas, good loan signings. I like him, he talks a good game, trys to play good football and has got us working hard.

 

BUT he needs to get us promoted, simple as that

[derry]

Kelvin kicked it over 80% of the time - it was horrible. Seriously, it was not thrown out very often because I love it when it is, and it just wasn't.

I have nothing against going direct - like you - but last night there were too many balls just tossed up. When we got it down and played it between full-backs and Oxo/Lallana, THEN we look like a football team.

 

Listen, I'm not going to get upset after a 4-0 win but the manager agrees - we weren't that good. We were just better than Dagenham. You can only beat what's in front of you, for sure, but our midfield still lacks bite and we were too static when Oxo didn't have the ball.

 

Thankfully, Adkins seems to know this. But the real proof of pudding is coming up in a fortnight.

 

Davis threw the ball out the odd time but in the main just hit it long. I think there are two reasons for this, firstly Davis is only comfortable doing this because he isn't confident enough to throw, because he is slow to pick out targets and allows them to be closed down because of his slowness. The goalkeepers that like playing from the back are like good midfielders who know where the next pass is going almost before receiving the ball, then release it quickly. Secondly IMO Adkins realises the problem and has adopted the safer tactic but is biding his time before getting in a goalkeeper that will allow him to play the passing football from the back. This I think is the reason he is sparing in his praise for Davis regarding the only thing he does well. shotstopping.

[Minty]

But I can see vast differences between our style under Adkins as to under Pardew, particularly in working it out from the back when the time is right to do so.

 

I completely agree. This so-called 'hoofing' was quite clearly, IMO, something we have worked on to vary our attacking approach and, as Adkins himself said after the Hudds game, meant we were able to play our football in the right areas.

 

Against Hudds we got caught at the back. By driving longer (not necessarily high) passes up to the front men and playing off them (Chaplow/Lallana and others picked up the knock downs and lay offs from Lambert and especially Barnard well), we're giving ourselves an option of how to play against teams that play high up or put that pressure on our defence.

 

Some of Harding and Seaborne's passes forward were excellent... pacey and accurate, but the execution wasn't always perfect and we did overhit/mi**** some passes, it showed good intentions to me, and means we can start to vary our play according to how the opposition try and counter us. Those who sit back, we draw out with passing from the back. Those who try and close us down and harry us, we bypass the midfield with a longer pass, and play further up the pitch. Now we just need to learn when to use each, and refine it further, but if we're winning 3-1 away from home and 4-0 at home in games where we aren't firing on all cylinders, then god help teams if we continue to improve.

 

I actually thought we played that way last night because Adkins (and I) was expecting D+R to be more like Hudds and be in our faces. But they actually stepped off us and so we were able to pass it out more on occasion than perhaps we did. But all in all it was a worthwhile exercise for me, because it all enhances our ability to cope with different opponents and tactics.

 

Adkins has just about everything spot on for me. I can see the progress, I can see the tactics at work, I can the players responding, and thankfully now, I can see the fans responding too.

Edited 3 November, 2010 by Minty

[dune]

Adkins has just about everything spot on for me. I can see the progress, I can see the tactics at work, I can the players responding, and thankfully now, I can see the fans responding too.

 

And we can all see the points on the table. Seeing us in 6th is very pleasing. Next target 2nd. Next target knock Brighton of their perch.

[The Kraken]

Davis threw the ball out the odd time but in the main just hit it long.

 

I'd love to see some stats on the actual case here. In my mind I can remember at least three times when he bowled it out quickly to Harding on a run up the left (one of which led to a goal scoring chance). I can remember Fonte and Seaborne come to get the ball at least 3 or 4 times each (and I would say more), and I can remember Richardson coming short once or twice. So, an estimated minimum of ten to fifteen times that we passed it out from the back.

 

The assertion that we mainly hit it long would therefore mean than Kelvin put his foot through it at least 20 or 30 times. In Legod Third Coming's 80% figure, that would mean that Kelvin went long with it on around 60 occasions! I'm not even sure he touched the ball that often.

 

I've said before, we were definitely more direct last nigth than in recent weeks. But I'm also completely sure that we mixed it up very well around half the time by playing out from the back, and kept play moving at a decent tempo by doing so.

[Dark Munster]

Davis threw the ball out the odd time but in the main just hit it long. I think there are two reasons for this, firstly Davis is only comfortable doing this because he isn't confident enough to throw, because he is slow to pick out targets and allows them to be closed down because of his slowness. The goalkeepers that like playing from the back are like good midfielders who know where the next pass is going almost before receiving the ball, then release it quickly. Secondly IMO Adkins realises the problem and has adopted the safer tactic but is biding his time before getting in a goalkeeper that will allow him to play the passing football from the back. This I think is the reason he is sparing in his praise for Davis regarding the only thing he does well. shotstopping.

 

He already has one. Did you see Bart last year against Charlton in the JPT?

[LostBoys]

Same as I did when he was appointed. I made no secret that my out and out favourite was Martin O'Neill but I have been impressed with him since he arrived. We are still a long way from where we want to be in terms of performance but it is all very enjoyable at the moment and no miserable moaning idiot posters are going to put me off.

[Wes Tender]

I'd love to see some stats on the actual case here. In my mind I can remember at least three times when he bowled it out quickly to Harding on a run up the left (one of which led to a goal scoring chance). I can remember Fonte and Seaborne come to get the ball at least 3 or 4 times each (and I would say more), and I can remember Richardson coming short once or twice. So, an estimated minimum of ten to fifteen times that we passed it out from the back.

 

The assertion that we mainly hit it long would therefore mean than Kelvin put his foot through it at least 20 or 30 times. In Legod Third Coming's 80% figure, that would mean that Kelvin went long with it on around 60 occasions! I'm not even sure he touched the ball that often.

 

 

I've said before, we were definitely more direct last nigth than in recent weeks. But I'm also completely sure that we mixed it up very well around half the time by playing out from the back, and kept play moving at a decent tempo by doing so.

 

You and Minty are right on the money and LGSC and Derry must have been watching another match; either that, or they are somehow being defensive towards Pardew's type of game. I suspect that Minty has hit on the reality, that Huddersfield had sussed out our new style of play and closed down the fullbacks quickly meaning that play had to be more varied to keep the opposition guessing. If the other team play a high line to pressure our back line, then the obvious solution is to hit the ball over their forward line for our forwards to run on to. Hull did that to us to great effect a few seasons ago and thrashed us 5-0 in the process and we had no answer to it at the time. Hoofing is only when the ball is aimlessly hit high and forward without any real purpose. If anybody saw the Arsenal game last night, then they would have seen the ball hit far up the pitch where Walcott ran through and left their entire defence for dead and only had their keeper to beat. Was that ball hoofed, or are Arsenal a passing side? Well, with players like Chamberlain in our team, we also have that option.

 

So if there is a debate as to whether we have varied our style of play for a particular match, that is suggestive that we adapt our game tactically to suit the conditions, the team in front of us, the players we have available etc. And from what I've seen, Adkins is far more aware tactically than Pardew and produces the more entertaining football at the same time. If we fans can't agree on what our style of play is, then that is surely a bonus, as rival managers won't know either what type of play we will present on the day.

 

And thank God for the width we play with now too.

[dune]

So if there is a debate as to whether we have varied our style of play for a particular match, that is suggestive that we adapt our game tactically to suit the conditions, the team in front of us, the players we have available etc. And from what I've seen, Adkins is far more aware tactically than Pardew and produces the more entertaining football at the same time. If we fans can't agree on what our style of play is, then that is surely a bonus, as rival managers won't know either what type of play we will present on the day.

 

Bang on the money. Under Pardew we had one plan and if that didn't work (which happened too often) then it was game over. Pardew was an arogant manager that saw changing things as a dent to his ego - he was always right in his mind. Last season we were 4 points off the play-offs at Christmas after a good run, but then the pitches got sticky and we needed to react to this, but we didn't and we came unstuck away from home. I don't think this will happen under Nigel Adkins because he's a thinking manager who will do what it takes to win games.

[Saint Fan CaM]

You and Minty are right on the money and LGSC and Derry must have been watching another match; either that, or they are somehow being defensive towards Pardew's type of game. I suspect that Minty has hit on the reality, that Huddersfield had sussed out our new style of play and closed down the fullbacks quickly meaning that play had to be more varied to keep the opposition guessing. If the other team play a high line to pressure our back line, then the obvious solution is to hit the ball over their forward line for our forwards to run on to. Hull did that to us to great effect a few seasons ago and thrashed us 5-0 in the process and we had no answer to it at the time. Hoofing is only when the ball is aimlessly hit high and forward without any real purpose. If anybody saw the Arsenal game last night, then they would have seen the ball hit far up the pitch where Walcott ran through and left their entire defence for dead and only had their keeper to beat. Was that ball hoofed, or are Arsenal a passing side? Well, with players like Chamberlain in our team, we also have that option.

 

So if there is a debate as to whether we have varied our style of play for a particular match, that is suggestive that we adapt our game tactically to suit the conditions, the team in front of us, the players we have available etc. And from what I've seen, Adkins is far more aware tactically than Pardew and produces the more entertaining football at the same time. If we fans can't agree on what our style of play is, then that is surely a bonus, as rival managers won't know either what type of play we will present on the day.

 

And thank God for the width we play with now too.

 

Those last two sentences are what counts in my book. And these are two key points of improvement that Adkins has sorted out - perhaps not completely yet, but I'd say we're 75% there with Chambo in the side. The big question is whether Puncheon wants to (and can) rise to the challenge and keep his place in the team - my feeling is he may have been exposed as not being good enough for this side.

[doddisalegend]

My feelings on Nigel is he is doing ok. For me now he has got settled in we're basically getting back to where we were at the end of last season. Despite what some are claiming (tranmere game aside) I really can't see much difference between the football we are playing now and the football we played the end of last season apart from Kelvin rolls the ball out sometimes rather than kicking all the time. There was plenty of punting going on in the daggers game I'm not sure what the difference between Kelvin kicking the ball to Lambert and Kelvin rolling the ball to Jose who then kicks it long to Lambert is?

 

Most decent managers should be getting the results we're getting (and were getting last season) with our resources. We can really only Judge Nigel at the end of the season (much as at the end of last season I felt we'd done well considering where we'd started) if we get promoted he's done well if we don't he has failed simples.

Edited 4 November, 2010 by doddisalegend

[Wes Tender]

My feelings on Nigel is he is doing ok. For me now he has got settled in we're basically getting back to where we were at the end of last season. Despite what some are claiming (tranmere game aside) I really can't see much difference between the football we are playing now and the football we played the end of last season apart from Kelvin rolls the ball out sometimes rather than kicking all the time. There was plenty of punting going on in the daggers game I'm not sure what the difference between Kelvin kicking the ball to Lambert and Kelvin rolling the ball to Jose who then kicks it long to Lambert is?

 

Most decent managers should be getting the results we're getting (and were getting last season) with our resources. We can really only Judge Nigel at the end of the season (much as at the end of last season I felt we'd done well considering where we'd started) if we get promoted he's done well if we don't he has failed simples.

 

Again, you must be watching a different team play to the one that I have watched at every home game this season.

 

The main difference is that we now play with much more width than we ever did under Pardew. Do you disagree?

 

The difference between KD kicking the ball out long and KD rolling the ball out to Fonte who then kicks upfield, is twofold. Firstly, Fonte doesn't always kick long and has options to advance forward into midfield space, which of course KD cannot do. Secondly, if Fonte does choose to kick long, then he is a very accurate placer of that kick and invariably finds his man with precision. But then of course, KD doesn't only roll the ball out to Fonte, does he? He uses any of the defenders who are available in space and the options out wide with Lallana and Puncheon/Chamberlain make them both a threat out wide if the ball is rolled out to Harding/Butterfield/Richardson who in turn pass on to them.

 

The plenty of punting in the Daggers game was coming from Daggers far more than from us. We mixed it up nicely IMO.

 

Yes, we can only really judge Nigel at the end of the season, but the thread invited opinions on how we thought he was doing so far. And so far, I am happier with NA, as his style of football is far more entertaining to watch at the very least.

[thefunkygibbons]

I want to have his babies

[jasonb]

Nigel Adkins was my no1 choice after seeing how his team played three years ago against Saints. Ever since then I have been following his performances along with Sean O'Driscoll, Lee Clarke and latterly Eddie Howe. I hated the way Pardew played and excused some dire performances and abject tactics by blaming pitches. FFS nobody forced him to play narrow up the muddy bits. Adkins won't be doing this, on the bad pitches he'll have the team playing right out on the touchlines.

 

Since he has arrived he has addressed all the issues I had with Pardew's battering ram aerial bombardment. Width, possession, insisting that the ball isn't given back to the opposition, playing out from the back, leaving two players up defending corners, attacking corners with movement and starting outside the penalty area instead of just standing in the six yard box, Kelvin Davis trying to help out with crosses.

 

Adkins is a breath of fresh air and the football the team are trying to play will get better, slicker and quicker as they get more used to it. I'm delighted we have got rid of Pardew because I thought from early on in his tenure that he was a bull****ter that didn't have much depth or talent as a manager, unlike Nigel Adkins, and really wasn't going to take us where the management wanted to go. I personally think the major issue that the management had with Pardew, was that they hated the way he had the team playing. Markus Liebherr and Nicola Cortese were brought up watching European teams passing the ball and retaining possession and found the Davis to Lambert difficult to understand and just didn't want their team to play that way. Hence the statement in May about a more compelling style of football. It was obvious that Pardew either couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't have a clue how to deliver the passing game they wanted, which is the way Nigel Adkin's teams play and why Pardew was sacked and Adkins brought in.

 

Excellent post!

[TopGun]

Bang on the money. Under Pardew we had one plan and if that didn't work (which happened too often) then it was game over. Pardew was an arogant manager that saw changing things as a dent to his ego - he was always right in his mind. Last season we were 4 points off the play-offs at Christmas after a good run, but then the pitches got sticky and we needed to react to this, but we didn't and we came unstuck away from home. I don't think this will happen under Nigel Adkins because he's a thinking manager who will do what it takes to win games.

 

Pardew was arrogant and one-dimensional. Too old school for me also. I like Adkins down to earth but practical approach.

[alpine_saint]

Considering that he hasnt had access to the kings ransom that Pardoo and Burlinho had, in order to shape the team to his vision, yet he is getting the results based on those oh-so-quaint-in-modern-ex-moderately successful PL manger-managed-teams notions of hard work, fitness and tactical understanding, I would say he is doing f**king great.

 

Keep up the good work, Nige !

[The Kraken]

I still think it's far too early to tell how good a job NA is doing. He's made a very good start and the team are starting to play a different, more attractive way than under Pardew. I expect us, as I did at the start of the season (and even up to the point when Pardew was sacked) to get promoted.

 

In mitigation though, we are yet to play the two stronger teams in the division in Brighton and Peterborough; we'll have a much better idea of where we are after that. The game against Huddersfield is obviously a concern as that's probably been Adkins' biggest test and we came off second bect in all departments.

 

I maintain that we have the strongest team in this division, so NA was working from a very strong base already. Bringing in Chaplow was a very good move, Bignall I guess we'll have to wait and see as he's hardly featured. So, while I'm happy with his last 10 games, its no more than I expected of this group of players.

 

He's made a promising good start, but as Adkins himself has stated many times; we need to keep up this form, be in and around the top places by January, and then push on from there. We're 10 points behind the league leaders right now, so NA has a lot of work still to do.

[Wade Garrett]

You and Minty are right on the money and LGSC and Derry must have been watching another match; either that, or they are somehow being defensive towards Pardew's type of game. I suspect that Minty has hit on the reality, that Huddersfield had sussed out our new style of play and closed down the fullbacks quickly meaning that play had to be more varied to keep the opposition guessing. If the other team play a high line to pressure our back line, then the obvious solution is to hit the ball over their forward line for our forwards to run on to. Hull did that to us to great effect a few seasons ago and thrashed us 5-0 in the process and we had no answer to it at the time. Hoofing is only when the ball is aimlessly hit high and forward without any real purpose. If anybody saw the Arsenal game last night, then they would have seen the ball hit far up the pitch where Walcott ran through and left their entire defence for dead and only had their keeper to beat. Was that ball hoofed, or are Arsenal a passing side? Well, with players like Chamberlain in our team, we also have that option.

 

So if there is a debate as to whether we have varied our style of play for a particular match, that is suggestive that we adapt our game tactically to suit the conditions, the team in front of us, the players we have available etc. And from what I've seen, Adkins is far more aware tactically than Pardew and produces the more entertaining football at the same time. If we fans can't agree on what our style of play is, then that is surely a bonus, as rival managers won't know either what type of play we will present on the day.

 

And thank God for the width we play with now too.

 

Nail on head there. It would be bordering on suicide for teams to play a high line, now we have the pace of AOC.

 

Pace gives you options.

[stu0x]

I was unhappy when he took over, not because it was him but because of the whole timing of it and the likelihood that it would mean another season in league 1.

 

From day one the target was promotion. If we achieve that, I'll be happy. If we don't, I'll be unhappy. Spanking Daggers or getting beaten by Huddersfield along the way means nothing in the long run. So I'll judge him on the last day of the season.

[doddisalegend]

Again, you must be watching a different team play to the one that I have watched at every home game this season.

 

The main difference is that we now play with much more width than we ever did under Pardew. Do you disagree?

 

The difference between KD kicking the ball out long and KD rolling the ball out to Fonte who then kicks upfield, is twofold. Firstly, Fonte doesn't always kick long and has options to advance forward into midfield space, which of course KD cannot do. Secondly, if Fonte does choose to kick long, then he is a very accurate placer of that kick and invariably finds his man with precision. But then of course, KD doesn't only roll the ball out to Fonte, does he? He uses any of the defenders who are available in space and the options out wide with Lallana and Puncheon/Chamberlain make them both a threat out wide if the ball is rolled out to Harding/Butterfield/Richardson who in turn pass on to them.

 

The plenty of punting in the Daggers game was coming from Daggers far more than from us. We mixed it up nicely IMO.

 

Yes, we can only really judge Nigel at the end of the season, but the thread invited opinions on how we thought he was doing so far. And so far, I am happier with NA, as his style of football is far more entertaining to watch at the very least.

 

Yes I do, the idea we played with no width last season is false. Adam and Puncheon are playing the same postions the same way they did under Pardew both still cut inside on occassions both still go out wide too. Oxo is great but I saw Antonio do the same sort of thing last season. If anything the right and left backs are getting forward less than they did under AP. Harding and Lallana overlapped out wide on lots of occasions last season and thats only starting to happen again in the last couple of games this season, I don't think Richardson got across the half way line more than a couple of times on tuesday. When KD took goal kicks on tuesday all the players moved to one side of the pitch like they always do, except on one occasion when I saw Lallanna out wide unmarked the KD never even thought about passing it to him.

 

Look at the third goal on tuesday night KD kicks, lambert flicks on Lallana controls simple pass to Barnard goal, 3 passes in all from a long ball results in a goal . It only matters if you get your knickers in a twist about longball vs playing like Barca debate personally it doesn't bother me if we play it long if it gets results. I think Nigels doing a good job I thought Pardew was doing a good job the difference in play are minimal and mostly cosmetic IMO both had/have the same target promotion, with the resources they have/had anything less is/was faliure. The biggest differences between Nigel and Alan are most likely behind the scences one clearly had issues with the chairman one it would seem doesn't.

[Legod Third Coming]

I'd love to see some stats on the actual case here. In my mind I can remember at least three times when he bowled it out quickly to Harding on a run up the left (one of which led to a goal scoring chance). I can remember Fonte and Seaborne come to get the ball at least 3 or 4 times each (and I would say more), and I can remember Richardson coming short once or twice. So, an estimated minimum of ten to fifteen times that we passed it out from the back.

 

The assertion that we mainly hit it long would therefore mean than Kelvin put his foot through it at least 20 or 30 times. In Legod Third Coming's 80% figure, that would mean that Kelvin went long with it on around 60 occasions! I'm not even sure he touched the ball that often.

 

I've said before, we were definitely more direct last nigth than in recent weeks. But I'm also completely sure that we mixed it up very well around half the time by playing out from the back, and kept play moving at a decent tempo by doing so.

 

Genuinely, watch the game again. I cannot recall Kelvin rolling/throwing/passing the ball more than once or twice - half a dozen times the whole game, maximum. I was sat for the entire second half looking at him...

 

This is not a 'have a go at Adkins' statement just the way it is.

 

I actually don't give a t055 how the ball ends up the in the opposition net.

 

But here are a couple of facts that need pointing out:

 

1. Pardew was not negative. We were the SECOND highest scoring team in the league. People say he played 4-5-1 and that this is de facto negative. That's about as sane an argument as saying a bird has wings therefore it must fly - tell that to the Emu. Playing 4-5-1 we were often able to dominate the midfield and control a game - scoring at will. We played 4-5-1 and won away from home 3-1 for a month - does no-one remember these things? We actually scored fewer goals when Barnard arrived and Pardew felt compelled to play him in a 4-4-2 formation with very mixed results.

 

2. We were never that bad defensively. We had the THIRD best defence in the league last year.

 

I would agree that Pardew often played direct from the back and I always prefer the ball given to a team-mate, from any player, anywhere on the park to any other. It stands to reason. I didn't like it as much as watching great passing football (which we also played - Bristol, Huddersfield, Norwich anyone?). However, Chelsea only won at the weekend because Cech punted it long and three touches later the ball was in the net. We did the same utilising Lambert to his strength last year - it worked, we scored shedloads of goals (see above stat).

 

The key thing for me is the result - all else is immaterial. I want us out of this league. I will not be satisfied watching us play Dagenham next year and marvelling at Oxo's ability to play a 1-2 with Lallana. WINNING is all that matters until we're good enough to worry about how...

 

(And again, I have nothing but respect for Adkins - I hope he wins the league. I've had £500 on him doing so!!!!!)

Edited 4 November, 2010 by Legod Third Coming

[doddisalegend]

Genuinely, watch the game again. I cannot recall Kelvin rolling/throwing/passing the ball more than once or twice - half a dozen times the whole game, maximum. I was sat for the entire second half looking at him...

 

This is not a 'have a go at Adkins' statement just the way it is.

 

I actually don't give a t055 how the ball ends up the in the opposition net.

 

But here are a couple of facts that need pointing out:

 

1. Pardew was not negative. We were the SECOND highest scoring team in the league. People say he played 4-5-1 and that this is de facto negative. That's about as sane an argument as saying a bird has wings therefore it must fly - tell that to the Emu. Playing 4-5-1 we were often able to dominate the midfield and control a game - scoring at will. We played 4-5-1 and won away from home 3-1 for a month - does no-one remember these things? We actually scored fewer goals when Barnard arrived and Pardew felt compelled to play him in a 4-4-2 formation with very mixed results.

 

2. We were never that bad defensively. We had the THIRD best defence in the league last year.

 

I would agree that Pardew often played direct from the back and I always prefer the ball given to a team-mate, from any player, anywhere on the park to any other. It stands to reason. I didn't like it as much as watching great passing football (whcih we also played - Bristol, Huddersfield, Norwich anyone?). However, Chelsea only won at the weekend because Cech punted it long and three touches later the ball was in the net. We did the same utilising Lambert to his strength last year - it worked, we scored shedloads of goals (see above stat).

 

The key thing for me is the result - all else is immaterial. I want us out of this league. I will not be satisfied watching us play Dagenham next year and marvelling at Oxo's ability to play a 1-2 with Lallana. WINNING is all that matters until we're good enough to worry about how...

 

(And again, I have nothing but respect for Adkins - I hope he wins the league. I've had £500 on him doing so!!!!!)

 

This^^^^

[John B]

No better than Pardew I would have thought.

 

Not scoring that many goals except against the bottom teams and Notts County with ten men

 

Defence though seems pretty good

[Wes Tender]

 

He's made a promising good start, but as Adkins himself has stated many times; we need to keep up this form, be in and around the top places by January, and then push on from there. We're 10 points behind the league leaders right now, so NA has a lot of work still to do.

 

But we have yet to play Brighton twice, so could reduce that gap potentially by 6 points. And although we are yet to play them and Peterborough who are close to the top, they also have yet to play us, Huddersfield and Colchester. Although they have beaten some teams that we have lost or drawn against, the same applies the other way and we have the excuse that we were jolted by the departure of Pardew and Wilkins being in charge until Adkins came in. But we have beaten Bournemouth,and Sheffield Wednesday who beat them. They could only draw with Tranmere who we beat convincingly.

 

So I'm not about to worry unduly about Brighton's 10 point lead just yet, remembering that Leeds were last season's Brighton in terms of beginning to run away with the division early on. And being only two point off second means that we are the team with current momentum that the others will be looking anxiously over their shoulders at.

[Legod Third Coming]

But we have yet to play Brighton twice, so could reduce that gap potentially by 6 points. And although we are yet to play them and Peterborough who are close to the top, they also have yet to play us, Huddersfield and Colchester. Although they have beaten some teams that we have lost or drawn against, the same applies the other way and we have the excuse that we were jolted by the departure of Pardew and Wilkins being in charge until Adkins came in. But we have beaten Bournemouth,and Sheffield Wednesday who beat them. They could only draw with Tranmere who we beat convincingly.

 

So I'm not about to worry unduly about Brighton's 10 point lead just yet, remembering that Leeds were last season's Brighton in terms of beginning to run away with the division early on. And being only two point off second means that we are the team with current momentum that the others will be looking anxiously over their shoulders at.

 

Agreed - it is way too early to reach for the Bollinger or the wooden spoon. Some lad next to me was only saying that this time last year Leeds were home and hosed...

[The9]

Considering that he hasnt had access to the kings ransom that Pardoo and Burlinho had, in order to shape the team to his vision, yet he is getting the results based on those oh-so-quaint-in-modern-ex-moderately successful PL manger-managed-teams notions of hard work, fitness and tactical understanding, I would say he is doing f**king great.

 

Keep up the good work, Nige !

 

The usual nonsense about managers spending money - so Adkins would have been this successful this quickly if we had the side Pardew inherited rather than the one he left, would he ?

 

Of course not, so why try and claim that Adkins isn't also benefiting from Pardew's good transfer judgement last season in building a strong core of players for this league. Adkins has reinvigorated them after a shaky start which Pardew was already turning around, based on his last result. Pretty much the same squad already did pretty much the same thing last season - but of course that doesn't suit your Pardew slagging agenda.

[Wes Tender]

Yes I do, the idea we played with no width last season is false. Adam and Puncheon are playing the same postions the same way they did under Pardew both still cut inside on occassions both still go out wide too. Oxo is great but I saw Antonio do the same sort of thing last season. If anything the right and left backs are getting forward less than they did under AP. Harding and Lallana overlapped out wide on lots of occasions last season and thats only starting to happen again in the last couple of games this season, I don't think Richardson got across the half way line more than a couple of times on tuesday. When KD took goal kicks on tuesday all the players moved to one side of the pitch like they always do, except on one occasion when I saw Lallanna out wide unmarked the KD never even thought about passing it to him.

 

Look at the third goal on tuesday night KD kicks, lambert flicks on Lallana controls simple pass to Barnard goal, 3 passes in all from a long ball results in a goal . It only matters if you get your knickers in a twist about longball vs playing like Barca debate personally it doesn't bother me if we play it long if it gets results. I think Nigels doing a good job I thought Pardew was doing a good job the difference in play are minimal and mostly cosmetic IMO both had/have the same target promotion, with the resources they have/had anything less is/was faliure. The biggest differences between Nigel and Alan are most likely behind the scences one clearly had issues with the chairman one it would seem doesn't.

 

I stand by my assertion that we play with more width under Adkins than we did under Pardew. Granted that the positioning of the players is often narrow when KD kicks out and that is something that needs to be addressed, as it is obviously the case that positioning the players across the pitch stretches the midfield and makes it easier to reach our players. But the narrowness of the play is something I detested under Pardew and so I have been very observant as to how Adkins does things and as others have also agreed, in open play we are placed wider across the pitch more often than not than we were under Pardew.

 

Yes, Antonio played out wide and made some good runs on the wing as does Oxo. But that doesn't mean to say that there were players on the opposite touchline. The play was out on the right and often all of the players were in the right hand side of the pitch and vice versa when the ball was on the left wing. Having players stretched across the pitch as we more often do now, allows the midfielders with better passing ability like Schneiderlin and Chaplow the option to go right or left and it is becoming more effective.

 

Richardson didn't get forward up the wing for a very good reason. He isn't yet fit enough to do so and would have left our right flank exposed had he done so.

 

I'm not adverse to route one football from time to time, especially as it could be utilised to great effect with speedy players like Chamberlain. I said as much when citing the brilliant piece of play by Arsenal last night involving Walcott. Overall, the best strategy is to vary the play and the tactics to suit the conditions, available players and to exploit the weaknesses of the opposition and counter their strengths. Huddersfield got their strategy against us spot on and we were found out. But I have more confidence in the ability of Adkins as a tactition than I had in Pardew, so I believe that we will have learned a lesson and addressed our shortcomings.

[georgeweahscousin]

We are definitely playing better football now than under Pardew in my opinion.

[The Kraken]

Genuinely, watch the game again. I cannot recall Kelvin rolling/throwing/passing the ball more than once or twice - half a dozen times the whole game, maximum. I was sat for the entire second half looking at him...

 

I think on this one we will just have to agree to disagree; you say once or twice in the whole game, I can remember more than that many times to Harding alone. We're clearly not going to convince each other so I guess it's best we leave it.

 

As for the rest of you post, I don't disagree with any of it and never have. I was a fan of Pardew, in fact I still very much am; I hope that he is back in football very soon (if rumours are to be believed my Palace supporting mates could soon see him at the helm instead of Whisky-George, which would be good for both parties). I thought AP did a very good job here last year, and I maintain that he would have done a very good job here this year, but of course we'll never know. Like you, if we stick 4 or 5 goals in the net in a game I'm less inclined to care how we do it; while its nicer to play football on the deck in the style of Arsenal, the over-riding factor for me is playing attacking football, and no-one can accuse Pardew of not doing that. I'll always look back on last seasson with thanks to AP for reviving a flagging club so quickly and giving us our first trophy in far too many years.

 

Adkins has started well, and long may our surge up the league continue. It's still very early days, and by his own admission there is plenty yet to come from us. I'm just glad that I'm back to enjoying going to games again, the start of the season was a blip on what has been a great 15 months under 2 good managers.

[Wes Tender]

The usual nonsense about managers spending money - so Adkins would have been this successful this quickly if we had the side Pardew inherited rather than the one he left, would he ?

 

Of course not, so why try and claim that Adkins isn't also benefiting from Pardew's good transfer judgement last season in building a strong core of players for this league. Adkins has reinvigorated them after a shaky start which Pardew was already turning around, based on his last result. Pretty much the same squad already did pretty much the same thing last season - but of course that doesn't suit your Pardew slagging agenda.

 

Well, I expect that Adkins would have had us performing as well if not better had he had the squad here that he had at S****horpe, a squad that was assembled on a shoestring budget with hardly any well-known names, but one that was obviously fit, industrious and had team spirit and playing in the division above.

 

And the question that begs to be asked is why Pardew's squad at the end of last season was flying and yet got off to such a poor start this season. The Bristol Rovers result might have been a blip. Nobody can prove that he would have fared any better than Wilkins.

[The Kraken]

Well, I expect that Adkins would have had us performing as well if not better had he had the squad here that he had at S****horpe, a squad that was assembled on a shoestring budget with hardly any well-known names, but one that was obviously fit, industrious and had team spirit and playing in the division above.

 

And the question that begs to be asked is why Pardew's squad at the end of last season was flying and yet got off to such a poor start this season. The Bristol Rovers result might have been a blip. Nobody can prove that he would have fared any better than Wilkins.

 

And nobody can prove that he wouldn't have won all three games, which makes it a rather redundant argument really.

[Legod Third Coming]

I think on this one we will just have to agree to disagree; you say once or twice in the whole game, I can remember more than that many times to Harding alone. We're clearly not going to convince each other so I guess it's best we leave it.

 

As for the rest of you post, I don't disagree with any of it and never have. I was a fan of Pardew, in fact I still very much am; I hope that he is back in football very soon (if rumours are to be believed my Palace supporting mates could soon see him at the helm instead of Whisky-George, which would be good for both parties). I thought AP did a very good job here last year, and I maintain that he would have done a very good job here this year, but of course we'll never know. Like you, if we stick 4 or 5 goals in the net in a game I'm less inclined to care how we do it; while its nicer to play football on the deck in the style of Arsenal, the over-riding factor for me is playing attacking football, and no-one can accuse Pardew of not doing that. I'll always look back on last seasson with thanks to AP for reviving a flagging club so quickly and giving us our first trophy in far too many years.

 

Adkins has started well, and long may our surge up the league continue. It's still very early days, and by his own admission there is plenty yet to come from us. I'm just glad that I'm back to enjoying going to games again, the start of the season was a blip on what has been a great 15 months under 2 good managers.

 

Yep 100% all the way with you there.