Rupert Lowe did Good Things while he was at the club - discuss

[dubai_phil]

Having read the Start Again thread thought I'd have a go at livening the dusty old forum up.

 

There are (at last count) 1,276,947 threads debating and listing what he did wrong. This is in NO WAY intended as a defense of Lowe, but I thought it worth seeing if we can actually find anything good.

 

(And before you moan, I started trying to think of some last week while in the US )

 

So.

 

My one is

 

He built the Academy properly and employed Georges Prost to run it which has given us the enjoyment of watching Walcott, Bale et al over the years and helped us to beat B'mouth on Saturday when our latest star graduate Lallana returned to the team.

 

Anything else?

[Weston Saint]

His idea to insert relegation clauses into contracts is now accepted by other clubs as being the norm.

[Colinjb]

1. St Mary's Stadium - Regardless of circumstance, under him it happened. The Dell was great but without the infrastructure he built now way would Markus Liebherr have looked twice at us.

 

2. The Academy - It brough in a lot of cash, we would have been weaker without it even if it has been slightly horrifying seeing 95% of all graduates reach their end potential elsewhere.

 

3. Errr, well, we had some nice home shirt designs in his time.

 

4. The cup final 2003. I've seen us reach it in our lifetime.

 

5. At the end of the day, he made me laugh.

[trousers]

Irrigation

[Gemmel]

His idea to insert relegation clauses into contracts is now accepted by other clubs as being the norm.

 

lol....we werent the first club ever to do that. Lowe did do some good things, but he certainly didnt invent that.

[Colinjb]

lol....we werent the first club ever to do that. Lowe did do some good things, but he certainly didnt invent that.

 

I bet Peter Storrie wished he'd have thought of 'nicking' that idea though!

[rocknrollman no2]

Good things Lowe did??????

Sorry thats it.Cant think of any.

[Saint Billy]

He employed Glen Hoddle and Gordon Strachan.

[doddisalegend]

Not cashing in on Matty.

[VectisSaint]

He left, but not soon enough either time.

[RobM]

Fair enough... IMO, the new stadium, the focus on the academy and the desire to not just follow the old school deserve some respect. If he wasn't quite so blinkered in his own good ideas being the only way, he could have actually done a lot more.

[Legod Third Coming]

Like Hitler, not all his ideas were bad. Well, look someone was going to bring up a dictator soon enough...

[Topcat]

Under his Leadership we went into administration and the Club was nearly finished.

 

Having a nice training ground is rather irrelevant to the issue of survival.

[Saintandy666]

Rupert Lowe was okay. His problem was he didn't/couldn't invest when we were on the brink of establishing ourselves as a bigger club, hence failure.

[Colinjb]

Rupert Lowe was okay. His problem was he didn't/couldn't invest when we were on the brink of establishing ourselves as a bigger club, hence failure.

 

He was too cautious. The case study of us and the Skates show that the two extremes of over spending and prudence will only have one end result at Premiership level.

[dubai_phil]

Under his Leadership we went into administration and the Club was nearly finished.

 

Having a nice training ground is rather irrelevant to the issue of survival.

 

Yes, we know that so as this is the listing of good things he did while at Saints, are you introducing the concept that our Administration was a good thing?

[Colinjb]

Yes, we know that so as this is the listing of good things he did while at Saints, are you introducing the concept that our Administration was a good thing?

 

Not my suggestion, but long term, it still may be.... My god it could have been so different though.

[dubai_phil]

lol....we werent the first club ever to do that. Lowe did do some good things, but he certainly didnt invent that.

 

OK, so who did come up with the idea first?

 

Anyone any ideas?

[Lighthouse]

Don't forget the radio and the ermm... catering.

[buctootim]

He was too cautious. The case study of us and the Skates show that the two extremes of over spending and prudence will only have one end result at Premiership level.

 

Not really. We had overspending under Wilde, Crouch and Burley which failed to get us back up and led to admin. We could have survived if we hadn't blown that money. Anyway, all ancient history now. Lets not dig up the bodies again.

[dubai_phil]

Don't forget the radio and the ermm... catering.

 

So you are saying the Radio was a good idea?

 

Actually, I'd say it was a good idea. Conceptually at least, but executionally flawed.

 

Broadcast and Image rights in the PL do make a whole bunch of money for the big clubs (ManUreTV for example), but from the Ashes of the original concept has come Saints Player. Was Lowe simply too early and too ambitious?

 

Certainly us non-uber fans living away have formed a much closer attachment and knowledge of the games and players with that service being available to us.

[Colinjb]

Not really. We had overspending under Wilde, Crouch and Burley which failed to get us back up and led to admin. We could have survived if we hadn't blown that money. Anyway, all ancient history now. Lets not dig up the bodies again.

 

Wilde, Crouch etc where in charge in the Championship. My point was that at 'Premiership' level they wouldn't work, survival would have happened but the ongoing downscaling of the club would just have left us more and more uncompetitive. But yes, it is history now either way, lets learn from the mistakes and move on.

[NickG]

He had been here for about 7 of his 10 years when we were in cup final - and I don't remember too many protests against him then.

 

Will be remembered for his part in board room chaos and administration though rather than cup final, good times under strachen and hoddle,

 

Did do well in player sales - Richards £8m! Kevin Davis, BT etc

[Wes Tender]

He's gone, Phil. Get over it.

[Gemmel]

He had been here for about 7 of his 10 years when we were in cup final - and I don't remember too many protests against him then.

 

Will be remembered for his part in board room chaos and administration though rather than cup final, good times under strachen and hoddle,

 

Did do well in player sales - Richards £8m! Kevin Davis, BT etc

 

I hated Lowe, but if there was one person who you want selliing your players, it was him. There is an argument that he had enough practice as we always sold our best players, but that is the way of the prem and once a player has had his head turned, there is very little you can do.

 

I dont think anyone else could have got the fees we did for some of our players, so he gets full credit for that.

He also fell out with the walcott family as theo wouldnt entertain Chelsea and lowe wanted to get them bidding against each other.

[Whitey Grandad]

He brought Delgado to the club. Oh.

[dubai_phil]

He's gone, Phil. Get over it.

 

Thankyou - you're the second one

[Jonnyboy]

Yes, we know that so as this is the listing of good things he did while at Saints, are you introducing the concept that our Administration was a good thing?

 

without administration we wouldnt have had markus ;-)

[1576]

****ed off.

[dubai_phil]

****ed off.

 

Actually, yes I'd agree with that one, albeit about four years too late

[Verbal]

****ed off.

 

The post I was looking for. Thanks.

[david in sweden]

1. St Mary's Stadium - Regardless of circumstance, under him it happened. The Dell was great but without the infrastructure he built now way would Markus Liebherr have looked twice at us.

2. The Academy - It brough in a lot of cash, we would have been weaker without it even if it has been slightly horrifying seeing 95% of all graduates reach their end potential elsewhere.

3. Errr, well, we had some nice home shirt designs in his time.

4. The cup final 2003. I've seen us reach it in our lifetime.

5. At the end of the day, he made me laugh.

 

Nice post Colin,

......reminded me of a quote I read the other day..

" every successful enterprise requires 3 men; a dreamer, a businessman and a S.O.B...."

 

Depending on who you talk to.... RL filled all these posts as various times, and that was probably his downfall.

 

Nothing against NC, but Rupert did have his own sort of charisma and for better or worse, I miss that .

Edited 4 October, 2010 by david in sweden

[Tamesaint]

His idea to insert relegation clauses into contracts is now accepted by other clubs as being the norm.

 

Interesting. I did not realise that they had been so accepted elsewhere. Pompey could well do with them :-)

 

In my view however, I felt that one of his biggest mistakes (and I think that there were many) was the way that the team that were relegated was so quickly disbanded . The norm these days seems to be to give it one good shot to get back into the Preniership once you are relegated. West Brom are past masters at this. Brum & Newcastle are others who have succeeded in the last couple of years. If it fails, you then cutback.

 

AS soon as we were relegated we just managed to p*** off the majority of our players and disband our team. The players all wanted to get away - with the relegation clauses being a major reason for this. We ended up giving away (or at best receiving small fees) for the likes of Delap, Niemi, Ormerod , Quashie, SKP, Higgy - all of whom were undoubtedly immensely p***ed off at the relegation clauses and wanted to get away asap. All of them have subsequently performed in the Premiership.

 

Our best chance to regain our place in the Premiership was in our first season down. The relegation clauses were one of the main factors why we did not achieve that.

[david in sweden]

Interesting. I did not realise that they had been so accepted elsewhere. Pompey could well do with them :-)

 

In my view however, I felt that one of his biggest mistakes (and I think that there were many) was the way that the team that were relegated was so quickly disbanded . The norm these days seems to be to give it one good shot to get back into the Preniership once you are relegated. West Brom are past masters at this. Brum & Newcastle are others who have succeeded in the last couple of years. If it fails, you then cutback.

 

AS soon as we were relegated we just managed to p*** off the majority of our players and disband our team. The players all wanted to get away - with the relegation clauses being a major reason for this. We ended up giving away (or at best receiving small fees) for the likes of Delap, Niemi, Ormerod , Quashie, SKP, Higgy - all of whom were undoubtedly immensely p***ed off at the relegation clauses and wanted to get away asap. All of them have subsequently performed in the Premiership.

 

Our best chance to regain our place in the Premiership was in our first season down. The relegation clauses were one of the main factors why we did not achieve that.

 

I think you may find that some of the " departing " players did so because they either had clauses in their contracts that stated they could walk away / get free's ... if we were relegated, Some of those we lost were good Prem players (some still are ) and they didn't want to stay at a lower level when careers can be so short...and other clubs want to buy you.

 

Overall the " pay-cut" clauses makes economic sense for the clusb but individuals made their own decisions..and some went.

That happens all the time and one can hardly blame them for that.

[Saint Fan CaM]

He protected the club going into administration by having it owned by a PLC. Oh....

 

Lowe was OK in many ways, however all of that was outweighed hugely by the things he did wrong, his own greed and desire for self-publicity. He should have sold the club when we were high flying in the Prem to generate capital for further investment to take us to the next level, however as a Shareholder he preferred his own position AND salary. In short, he failed in his duty as Chairman of a PLC to do what was best for the club and it's shareholders, right up until the very end when he put the club into administration 1 week too late.

[Alain Perrin]

1) Stadium - regardless of the why's and wherefores, Lowe had a significant part to play in the construction of the stadium and, as someone else pointed out, it's that infrastructure that made us an attractive prospect for investors.

 

2) Negotiation - we got some bargains under Lowe and also sold for top dollar. Probably lost a few too by playing hardball but who really knows. Personal favorite cash cow was Kevin Davis plus Theo Walcot (good value for a player out of contract although his parents probably had a lot to do with that)

 

3) Played by the rules - It didn't get much publicity but Lowe paid Swindon £100K from Walcot's transfer owing from when we took him from them. They'd forgotten about it and, considering they were cash strapped, it helped a lot.

 

4) Turned Saints in to a business - Unpopular, yes. Necessary, certainly.

 

5) Cup Final 2003 - every member of the club deserves credit for their part in this. Thanks for the memories.

 

Yes there were plenty of negatives too, but a balanced, dispassionate view says RL delivered a lot for the club.

 

At the time of his ousting I remember several people saying I wish we had so and so instead (Simon Jordan's name came up more than once). Most of the names mentioned there were chancers who are long gone leaving their teams with memories of big names but a ****hole of a stadium. At least when RL left we had an infrastructure we can build on.

[ericofarabia]

Took the p!ss out of The North London Yobbos and got money in for Hoddles return to his spiritual home and then got 8 million for Deano and gave us all a bloody good larf with The North London Yobbo tag!!

 

Will they wear it with as much pride as our Ale House Brawlers tag I wonder?

[Foxstone]

Bloody good speeches !

 

Klingons, North London Yobbos and the Vineyards of Naboth were all my particular favourites !

[bpsaint]

Signing Niemi was his idea, deserves credit for that!

[Cabrone]

Took us down 2 divisions, has any other chairman managed that?

 

For the 2nd relegation all he had to do was keep the existing manager - and he screwed that up.

 

If we are being dispassionate then you have to say that we had a very favourable set of fixtures on the cup run - apart from Spurs it was a string of emminently winnable games. We lucked out that year.

 

Sorry - joint worst chairman in our history along with Askham.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He brought in Simon Clifford (the bloke whose just employed Gazza as his Manager)

[JackFrost]

I think he sanctioned the Rasiak purchase just before he was ousted the first time.

 

Thing is with Lowe he did good things but far more bad things.

 

Interesting Saint Richmond hasn't responded to this thread yet

[Foxstone]

I think he sanctioned the Rasiak purchase just before he was ousted the first time.

 

Thing is with Lowe he did good things but far more bad things.

 

Interesting Saint Richmond hasn't responded to this thread yet

 

I think his morse code machine has broken !

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Weston Saint

His idea to insert relegation clauses into contracts is now accepted by other clubs as being the norm.

Interesting. I did not realise that they had been so accepted elsewhere. Pompey could well do with them :-)

 

In my view however, I felt that one of his biggest mistakes (and I think that there were many) was the way that the team that were relegated was so quickly disbanded . The norm these days seems to be to give it one good shot to get back into the Preniership once you are relegated. West Brom are past masters at this. Brum & Newcastle are others who have succeeded in the last couple of years. If it fails, you then cutback.

 

AS soon as we were relegated we just managed to p*** off the majority of our players and disband our team. The players all wanted to get away - with the relegation clauses being a major reason for this. We ended up giving away (or at best receiving small fees) for the likes of Delap, Niemi, Ormerod , Quashie, SKP, Higgy - all of whom were undoubtedly immensely p***ed off at the relegation clauses and wanted to get away asap. All of them have subsequently performed in the Premiership.

 

Our best chance to regain our place in the Premiership was in our first season down. The relegation clauses were one of the main factors why we did not achieve that.

 

Our best chance was buying players in the January transfer window when we were still in the Premier. That's what we did and why we were in such financial trouble the following season. All that bluff about insisting Crouch stayed was only to gain the maximum fee, something that did work out. Nope, we took the best line but spending £4.5M under that twitchy, saddle faced clunt was a total waste, when he gets out done by that tactical genius Bryan Robson who spent fook all.

 

 

Originally Posted by Gemmel

lol....we werent the first club ever to do that. Lowe did do some good things, but he certainly didnt invent that.

Even bigger LOL when you try and tell us who did this first? It would not surprise me that Weston is right here, as it was during those formative years of the Premier that the salaries between the Premier and the CCC grew to exceptional levels. There was no need for such strategy previously and I can remember Lowe instigating the clauses at an early stage such the only player left without such a clause was Claus. That would have made it as sometime just after 1996. Several Premier clubs approached Lowe for the exact detail of how Saints implemented this policy and something that is now standard with the majority of clubs within the Premier.

 

 

 

The one exceptional thing that came out of the Lowe era was the Academy. I don't know how much of this was luck with getting George Prost, but watching Gary Lineker last night and the necessity for getting the skills right with the players, made the Academy under George Prost stand out like a beaming light. Gareth Bale really surprised me, just a run of the mill kid, nothing exceptional. Then it was as if all those training sessions and practice in the dome suddenly exploded and he was suddenly looking to be world class. All that youth team had very similar traits ingrained into them. The comments about how Theo would run as if he could go over puddles without a splash was evident in style even to the slower players such as Surman. Of that youth team, Best was the stand out for skill, it has just not developed as others. When you look at the people Lowe appointed for the Academy, Jennings, Alias and Prost, that was an exceptional group that any Premier club would fall over backwards in having. The star though was Prost, who turned pigs ears into silk purses.

[scott_saints]

Scw.

[teamsaint]

One thing he tried to do, (but clearly failed) was to support the idea of the Phoenix league, (or pL 2).

 

i give credit to him for realising that, however well run a "middling" PL club is, the day of relegation inevitably dawns, sooner or later.he realised, I think, that the financial gulf between the pL and thChamp is far too big for businesses to plan properly, and in fact that there are probably around 30 clubs in the country that can regard themselves as "potential" PL clubs.

 

In my view, with less fear of relegation from the PL, clubs could be better run, players wages brought under control, and maybe even ticket prices reduced.

 

And we might have a pL full of proper clubs (Saints, Leeds, SheffWeds , forest) with 30k gates not bloody micky mouse clubs with 10k gates living on murdochs millions.

[derry]

He paid our taxes to HMRC.

[sadoldgit]

lol....we werent the first club ever to do that. Lowe did do some good things, but he certainly didnt invent that.

 

He didn't invent it but was one of the few at the time to bring it in. He was seen by some people at the FA as a "visionary" (although compared to most of them a blind man would be too). Bringing in SCW was a bol move and it is a shame that it wasn't implemented the way it should have been. With many other managers maybe it would have worked? Who knows. Keeping the club in the Prem with gates of 15k was no mean feat either.

[Rebel]

Let's not mention all the millions he and his fellows took out of the club over those 10 years in excessively high executive salaries, bonuses and excessive dividends - and all the fat contracts awarded to companies they also owned.

 

All legal - but it was money that could and should have taken SFC to the next level.

 

Lowe did a lot of good things - but he was always in it to make money for himself and his cronies - be they fellow directors or hid shareholding friends.

 

At one point he was the highest paid CEO in football - and I never understood why we needed a CEO and an MD. We were also one of the few if not the only club to pay the non-executive directors a salary - and lets not forget the excessive expenses they all claimed!

 

But he proved that even a well run club couldn't be run as a business indefinately - the cost of sales is too high and the need for investment constant.

[dubai_phil]

Let's not mention all the millions he and his fellows took out of the club over those 10 years in excessively high executive salaries, bonuses and excessive dividends - and all the fat contracts awarded to companies they also owned.

 

All legal - but it was money that could and should have taken SFC to the next level.

 

Lowe did a lot of good things - but he was always in it to make money for himself and his cronies - be they fellow directors or hid shareholding friends.

 

At one point he was the highest paid CEO in football - and I never understood why we needed a CEO and an MD. We were also one of the few if not the only club to pay the non-executive directors a salary - and lets not forget the excessive expenses they all claimed!

 

But he proved that even a well run club couldn't be run as a business indefinately - the cost of sales is too high and the need for investment constant.

 

Ah that one is simple.

 

The MD did 90% of the work, the CEO made the speeches.

 

I think one thing with hindsight that he DID do was to actually show that a PLC simply cannot work in Football.

 

The mess that Man Ure (Debt Wise) and of course Liverpool are now in are simply bigger versions of what happened to us.

 

Shame really that in an era when idiots lent money to anyone with a bad idea or a house to mortgage we never managed to join the queue for free cheap money.

In the end the concept of a PLC getting zillions from the City was sound, it just never worked and we were undone by the old Bank Overdraft withdrawal that so many others have faced....

 

Although I still have a theory about that

 

And yes, good one Derry, no matter what else we think of him, he did pay our taxes and has forever given us the moral high ground in the Poopey Takeover Saga