Time for a fresh start

[Deppo]

I don't think that Ponty or St Landrew are allowed to comment as they have been made to sign an NDA.

[dune]

This is all sounds very much like Pardews sacking. I wonder if Ponty was sticking it in a fellow mods missus.

[Arizona]

Fair point and you are right. Ponty I believe, just wanted to be thanked - just a little bit - for the time he had put in. There was none. Neither Steve or Baj have uttered one syllable of private thanks or acknowledgement for the time the mods have put in. No surprise either that they haven't posted on the St Landrew thread. It is shameful the way they have been treated.

 

What are you basing this assumption on?

[chrisobee]

What are you basing this assumption on?

 

It's not an assumption, it is based on what I have been told by someone who really would know. Maybe they make an exception for you ?

[Arizona]

It's not an assumption, it is based on what I have been told by someone who really would know. Maybe they make an exception for you ?

 

Well, I would know too and that is incorrect.

[lettuce]

Please ban anyone who uses the word "brought" instead of "bought", as in "I just went to the Saints Mega Store and brought a new Saints packed lunch box"... that is all I ask for.

[dubai_phil]

Personal abuse and a lack of respect for others views should be stamped out. It is easy to hold a constructive discussion with people that are willing to disagree and argue intelligently and constructively. There are quite a few that now refuse to put arguments forward because of the abuse they receive. In the main they are much more knowledgeable, constructive and interesting than the abusers who trot out the same old rubbish.

 

There are many many Saints fans out there who have fallen out of love with TSW. When I meet with them on trips back the usual reason is the w*nkers, the whingers etc.

 

They have a very valid point.

 

The other reason given is that "They used to come on here to read the gossip and the buzz around the club and to express opinions".

 

I used to view the old forum for about a year before I started posting, it served as a source for those opinions and debate, it showed that there is a really big Saints community around the world and as an ex pat it gave me a link to home. Some of the gossip used to actually come true.

 

Then we look at where we are today. Saint Lee, St David and a few others must take some blame - they tried to "help out" in bad times and made a real hash of it with their over confidence and believing they could act as moderators in the 3 Amigo saga.

 

Gradually being ITK became a means of boasting and then of being hit with a torrent of abuse (words, not the poster)

 

Our wish to be a "psuedo" Communist society respecting everybody's right to post what they wanted led to "over tolerance" of people. Yes their opinions may well have been valid the first 500 times they called anyone names for not holding the same opinion BUT it was a cancer and caused many to give up.

 

While some can be viewed as humourous the ever available and often well timed "Dalek Hoddle" interventions, some were simply nasty and spiteful.

 

So, how can it be changed? Opinions must be expressed, debate must be allowed to be heated, but Derry has hit a very good nail on the head.

 

There is a simple rule - Play the post not the man.

 

If someone has a differing opinion then EXPRESS the opinion, don't call someone an idiot and worse.

 

Kill the infighting at source - too many on here have personal issues with others and the threads get hijacked. There is no need for it, it isn't about debate it is about cyber warriors trying to prove their manhood is bigger than 1.5 inches fully grown, it has no place here.

 

IF we get rid of the stupidity, IF we make it somewhere that can use logic, reasoning and alcohol to make a valid point or report on something then we can grow again.

 

But, one thing I can tell you for sure, the demise of the forum has sod all to do with the anxiety, unrest, unease and concerns of the fans regarding the state of the club at the moment. It goes back far further than that.

 

I will post up an example and let's watch what happens

[chrisobee]

Well, I would know too and that is incorrect.

 

Well at least 2 of your ex colleagues don't believe it is incorrect, no offence but since I know them far better than I know you I'm not going to doubt what I've been told is true.

[dune]

Please ban anyone who uses the word "brought" instead of "bought", as in "I just went to the Saints Mega Store and brought a new Saints packed lunch box"... that is all I ask for.

 

And where instead of were, and should of instead of should have.

[Deppo]

I went to the Saints Mega Store yesterday and I brought a Saints packed lunch box. I didn't buy anything in the shop though.

[dune]

I wonder if Steve and Baj will hold a raffle and invite a few full members round to their place for a pizza to explain what's gone on.

[scotty]

Probably not, isn't autodetermination supposed to be a divine right (or something like that)

 

in the proper spirit of this thread I'll defer to your greater knowledge of the subject

[Whitey Grandad]

And where instead of were, and should of instead of should have.

 

Yes, that sort of thing is disappointing. I try not to correct it because I would never wish to deter anyone from expressing their opinions (I nearly typed 'there' there), but there are occasions where I just cannot help trying to continue an education that should properly have been undertaken at school. I have an enquiring mind and and always open to correction.

[Deppo]

Yes, that sort of thing is disappointing. I try not to correct it because I would never wish to deter anyone from expressing their opinions (I nearly typed 'there' there), but there are occasions where I just cannot help trying to continue an education that should properly have been undertaken at school. I have an enquiring mind and and always open to correction.

 

What awful syntax.

Edited 3 October, 2010 by Deppo

[RobM]

I've been openly critical of the Moderation around here, so it's only right and fair I explain myself out of respect to those it is ultimately aimed at.

 

People should be allowed to express themselves, voice their opinion and use this forum to get their opinion across. They should be able to let off steam and vent, to be able to disagree with what others say, to be able to poke fun at things, have a laugh, be serious, start a campaign.. whatever is on their mind.

 

People should not have to do this in fear of personal attacks or abuse aimed at them for doing so. That doesn't mean people can't disagree, in fact if they do disagree they should be encouraged to say so, but in the right way. Any sort of name calling, abuse, attack or other such comments simply aren't needed to do this. It's utterly unnecessary. This is what I want to see stamped out.

 

Heck, people can poke even fun at each other if they want, but do it in a light hearted way and consider the fact that not everyone shares the same view of you. This applies to what you're saying as well as the way you're saying it. Yes, you might be quite comfortable calling your mates a ****, it doesn't mean everyone is.

 

Moderators should stamp this out immediately, before it descends into pages of nonsense. And if that does happen, the nonsense should be removed and the good stuff left, don't just close the thread... that's not moderation. If the crap continues, delete it. If it's the same people doing it, hand out warnings/infractions/whatever this forum runs on. If they still do it, ban them. If they come back, ban them again unless they take the time to apologise and show they are going to act differently. I know this takes time and a lot of effort, I've been a Mod on a forum far larger in content and user base than this so I know what it takes. If time is what's missing, get more people on board.

 

I do believe the majority of people come here to talk football, it's just a small group of regulars who spoil it and ruin the forum. Manage them and everything gets better.

 

It is possible to have debate, opinions, disagreements and even a bit of fun, without insults and abuse. But it takes work and it's very important that everyone involved in running the forum does so to the same view and rules, which can only be done if the Admin team/Owners set out to the Mod team exactly what they deem acceptable.

[chrisobee]

Just for the record as requested by St Landrew :

 

"Nobody drove me away. I left by my own decision. I assure you, I'm not coming back to explain it myself. "

[buctootim]

I would have expected some kind of public thanks for all their work. At least a thread that people could post on. Ponty always managed to get the modding just right. St Landrew and others were excellent too.

[chrisobee]

I would have expected some kind of public thanks for all their work. At least a thread that people could post on. Ponty always managed to get the modding just right. St Landrew and others were excellent too.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?25592-The-Ofiicial-Memories-of-St-Landrew-Thread

 

Only for St Landrew though, all the ex mods deserve a thank you. The lack of such only reinforces my assertion above.

[Deppo]

Seeing as Baj and stevegrant aren't going to start a "thank you" thread, perhaps someone else should?

[shurlock]

Only been on here for two and a bit years (god knows why/how I never found SW or a predecessor). As such, I know of no golden age or period of enlightenment and think that the forum adds far more value than not. Saying that, he atmosphere has got nastier in the last few months - it could be a blip, reflecting past demons and the fact that most Saints fans are once bitten, twice shy when it comes to the machinations of chairmen etc, though this could disappear as stability and success return and the club opens up a bit more.

 

The moderators have done a good job but there is an inescapable, perhaps tension between being a moderator and a fan: on the one hand, as a mod you're expected to maintain icy neutrality and a tight lip yet as a fan, you're bound to have visceral positions or views on matters, no matter how much you try.

 

One problem is that mods have strayed into nonfootballing discussions and let their positions be known. In theory, this shouldn't be a problem but becomes one when positions hijacked or exploited by others as tantamount proof that they're right and the have carte blanche to push an argument far beyond what is appropriate and indeed what the mod originally argued. Meanwhile, others who disagree think the whole process has been captured and conclude that posters are being protected by mods, even when this is blatantly false. No mod should be allowed to post on nonfootballing matters and what counts as nonfootballing should be interpreted strictly.

 

Another problem is the pollution and explosion of threads: if things are going to get heated (and sometimes, playing the ball can sometimes mean taking the mean - its a complex world, there's sometimes going to be contact), at least restrict them to one thread. The problem is that some posters start to new threads left, right and centre because they know (somewhat cynically) that an old thread with the same old sh*t is likely to attract fewer posters/viewers than a new thread with repackaged scores to settle simply because it is new. Clamping down on new theads is also a less personal and more objective basis to instill a bit of discipline.

 

Finally, in the absence of an Orwellian report button (that would allow mods to gauge the depth of feeling about a particular post and respond democratically), infractions should at least be publicised. Doing so gives people confidence that others aren't getting away with things and in turm that they won't escape punishment if they provoke others. It also might induce a bit of self-restraint from posters to the extent that most people here don't want to be viewed as the *****r who's enjoying something that we all ultimately share in and care about.

Edited 4 October, 2010 by shurlock

[ericofarabia]

Probably not, isn't autodetermination supposed to be a divine right (or something like that)

 

Isn't it something to do with nearly hanging yourself whilst wearing a gimp mask, an orange stuffed into your mouth and bashing the bishop for all its worth'

[JustMike]

looking at some of the negativity not just on this thread but the forum in general I woulnt blame Steve or Baj if they just thought **** it and closed the thing down! Can see why Keith shut up shop.

[Son of Bob]

After 7 years moderating various incarnations of this site I am calling it a day too. I haven't been on here much in the last 12 months anyway so I doubt my input will be sorely missed. Anyway, it's been fun and I wish good luck to those foolish enough to put themeselves forward for the new team. It's a thankless task and those who have a crack at it might understand just how difficult it can be. Those who remember the abuse we had to endure during the meltdown of SaintsForever will know exactly what I mean!

[thesaint sfc]

But how will that solve things with the idiots who abuse others and repeat their views over and over again?

 

I think if other members were able to just tell them to f*ck off then they wouldn't do it. Most of them carry on the way they do because the mods can't do anything about it because they're not breaking the rules - but the people who tell them to f*ck off get infracted.

[Baj]

Well at least 2 of your ex colleagues don't believe it is incorrect, no offence but since I know them far better than I know you I'm not going to doubt what I've been told is true.

 

Im pretty disappointed that two ex-mods would essentially lie to you to us not showing appreciation for their efforts. I've no idea WHY they would lie to you, that's something you need to ask yourself and perhaps them.

[lettuce]

I went to the Saints Mega Store yesterday and I brought a Saints packed lunch box. I didn't buy anything in the shop though.

Hope you enjoyed your lunch!

 

The "bought"/"brought" mistake is even creeping into spoken word, nevermind just being a typo or incorrect spelling... kids eh!? tch!

[chrisobee]

Im pretty disappointed that two ex-mods would essentially lie to you to us not showing appreciation for their efforts. I've no idea WHY they would lie to you, that's something you need to ask yourself and perhaps them.

 

Baj,

This is essentially a case of me being given 2 different versions of events and, as is my preogative, I can choose to believe whichever I feel is most probable. What I know for certain is that second hand communication is rarely worthwhile so a case of leaving it I think is best.

 

Regards,

 

Chris

[Block 5]

Im pretty disappointed that two ex-mods would essentially lie to you to us not showing appreciation for their efforts. I've no idea WHY they would lie to you, that's something you need to ask yourself and perhaps them.

 

Oh dear. This forum really is going to the dogs.

Mods accusing other mods of lying....... whatever next?

 

 

Why have so many mods suddenly quit 'for no apparent reason'?

 

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

[Baj]

Oh dear. This forum really is going to the dogs.

Mods accusing other mods of lying....... whatever next?

 

 

Why have so many mods suddenly quit 'for no apparent reason'?

 

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".

 

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, all mods handed their resignation in AFTER they were made aware of the changes, so you'd have to ask them for their own personal reasons

[Block 5]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, all mods handed their resignation in AFTER they were made aware of the changes, so you'd have to ask them for their own personal reasons

 

To lose one or two mods could be considered careless........ to lose nearly all the mods........etc etc.

[Saint_clark]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, all mods handed their resignation in AFTER they were made aware of the changes, so you'd have to ask them for their own personal reasons

 

This suggests then that they took the upcoming changes as a personal slight against them and their judgement.

[Arizona]

This suggests then that they took the upcoming changes as a personal slight against them and their judgement.

 

That's not the case personally. Initially I was happy to reapply, but after thinking about it I decided the 'job' just wasn't fun anymore. Can't speak for anyone else, but personally I've been feeling indifferent towards this board (the content, not the way it was run) for a while. I just took this as an excuse to jump ship.

[Baj]

It also says to me that the mods had had enough too and perhaps this was a good time for everyone involved to change scene

[Deano6]

Baj, is there any chance you might jump ship soon too?

[Baj]

Baj, is there any chance you might jump ship soon too?

 

In order to jump ship, someone else would have to want me ....

[dune]

Why hasn't Steve Grant commented on the treatment of the mods?

[Baj]

Why hasn't Steve Grant commented on the treatment of the mods?

 

Cos he wants no part of it, i've locked him in the SWF cupboard and thrown away the key. THIS IS MY PLACE NOW!

[saintjay77]

I think everyone needs to take a bit of a look at themselves for a second. The way this is going I wouldnt be suprised to find the site closed down as everyone that gave a toss before will have given up.

 

The constant badgering and moaning at every little thing and then the torrent of abuse at anyone that disagree's is what is ruining this site.

 

There is no reason why we cant debate all things Saints with a bit of humour or even a bit of competition like pretty much everyone here would do in a pub full of Saints. Without the Mods this place will resemble something more like a school playground with non stop name calling from the safty of hiding behind a teacher/keyboard.

 

If every debate ends up in a personal attack on someones judgement or opinion then its not worth hanging about.

 

Personally I like it here and up until recently its been worth joining in the debate. It seems that unless your prepared to agrue with a few internet mongs its not worth saying anything. The Pompey Take Over Saga seems to be the best place to have a decent debate and it pains me to say it but that debate is with a few skates!!!! Are we really being outdone by a few fishy ones?

 

We the general users are what will make this site good or crap. Time for everyone to think what they want it to be and decide on how they can best join in I reckon.

[LGTL]

IMO;

 

Everyone should post under their real names, no hiding behind a username. People will then be more responsible for the things they say. It's how it works on the EnglandFans forum and you don't get half the abuse, if any, that goes on in here.

 

I'd also have a system whereby the MODS are changed every 6 months or so to keep things fresh.

[hypochondriac]

IMO;

 

Everyone should post under their real names, no hiding behind a username. People will then be more responsible for the things they say. It's how it works on the EnglandFans forum and you don't get half the abuse, if any, that goes on in here.

 

I'd also have a system whereby the MODS are changed every 6 months or so to keep things fresh.

 

And have mentalists cut the electric on your house like Legg? No thanks!

[saint_stevo]

I'd like to put myself forward, i could also help out on a technical front if reqd if the db probelms were to re-appear etc

 

Cue abuse......

[Son of Bob]

TBH honest Baj I suspect most of the admin' team would have happily carried on. Whilst they may even have agreed with your belief that it was time for a change they probably feel the way it came about was maybe a little 'mis-judged'. Personally I'm not too bothered. I only tend to come on here as a result of reported posts these days anyway as the petty bickering between the usual suspects has become virtually unbearable. I've enjoyed my 7 years of moderating very much but the time has definately come to bow out gracefully!

 

FWIW I really don't think the moderation team are the reasons for the forums waining poularity anyway but that's another discussion for another day...

[Deppo]

FWIW I really don't think the moderation team are the reasons for the forums waining popularity anyway

 

Agreed. Thank you for your time and efforts Son of Bob. Enjoy the freedom!

[Deano6]

In order to jump ship, someone else would have to want me ....

 

Or you could just throw yourself into the ocean.

[chrisobee]

IMO;

 

Everyone should post under their real names, no hiding behind a username. People will then be more responsible for the things they say. It's how it works on the EnglandFans forum and you don't get half the abuse, if any, that goes on in here.

 

I'd also have a system whereby the MODS are changed every 6 months or so to keep things fresh.

 

Noooooooo, that's only for the foolhardy

[RonManager]

IMO;

 

Everyone should post under their real names, no hiding behind a username.

 

I do!!

[chrisobee]

I do!!

 

What a bloody stupid name;)

[Dalek2003]

There are many many Saints fans out there who have fallen out of love with TSW. When I meet with them on trips back the usual reason is the w*nkers, the whingers etc.

 

They have a very valid point.

 

The other reason given is that "They used to come on here to read the gossip and the buzz around the club and to express opinions".

 

I used to view the old forum for about a year before I started posting, it served as a source for those opinions and debate, it showed that there is a really big Saints community around the world and as an ex pat it gave me a link to home. Some of the gossip used to actually come true.

 

Then we look at where we are today. Saint Lee, St David and a few others must take some blame - they tried to "help out" in bad times and made a real hash of it with their over confidence and believing they could act as moderators in the 3 Amigo saga.

 

Gradually being ITK became a means of boasting and then of being hit with a torrent of abuse (words, not the poster)

 

Our wish to be a "psuedo" Communist society respecting everybody's right to post what they wanted led to "over tolerance" of people. Yes their opinions may well have been valid the first 500 times they called anyone names for not holding the same opinion BUT it was a cancer and caused many to give up.

 

While some can be viewed as humourous the ever available and often well timed "Dalek Hoddle" interventions, some were simply nasty and spiteful.

 

So, how can it be changed? Opinions must be expressed, debate must be allowed to be heated, but Derry has hit a very good nail on the head.

 

There is a simple rule - Play the post not the man.

 

If someone has a differing opinion then EXPRESS the opinion, don't call someone an idiot and worse.

 

Kill the infighting at source - too many on here have personal issues with others and the threads get hijacked. There is no need for it, it isn't about debate it is about cyber warriors trying to prove their manhood is bigger than 1.5 inches fully grown, it has no place here.

 

IF we get rid of the stupidity, IF we make it somewhere that can use logic, reasoning and alcohol to make a valid point or report on something then we can grow again.

 

But, one thing I can tell you for sure, the demise of the forum has sod all to do with the anxiety, unrest, unease and concerns of the fans regarding the state of the club at the moment. It goes back far further than that.

 

I will post up an example and let's watch what happens

 

Dalek here, feel honoured to get a reference ! Have to say most of the comments flung at me where OK and the abusive ones where just like water off a ducks back !

[dune]

Dalek here, feel honoured to get a reference ! Have to say most of the comments flung at me where OK and the abusive ones where just like water off a ducks back !

 

Were, it's ****ing were.

[dubai_phil]

Interesting....

 

Having deliberately started a Rupert Lowe did good things thread, I must say I am shocked that it actually HAS produced sensible comments...

 

Maybe we have become self regulating and all grown up after all